AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[Leshoyadut]

I just want to say that I'm in love with the Coven Throne warscroll spell and I don't care how impractical it is in actual play. The fact that I can just get a free Vampire Lord by killing a <7 wound hero with a d3 MW, 12" range spell is amazing to me and I'm going to try making it happen at least once.

[Malakithe]

3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Overall I feel like some Warscrolls are way too overpriced.

Thats AoS in general though. They price everything way too high for no reason other then to limit models on the table

[Beliman]

49 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Cado Ezechiar can become a Vampire of any Bloodline (he simply gets the keyword, since he has no bloodline keyword himself) right?

Look at his description. He can't recieve any subfaction keyword

[Malakithe]

19 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Look at his description. He can't recieve any subfaction keyword

Well thats a shame

[TechnoVampire]

How do others feel about the new VLOZD warscroll? I know it’s technically an improvement, but I can’t help but feel a bit disappointed by it. Probably more of an anvil than a hammer unit? I’m confused by this books lack of command ability’s on hero’s (although I am aware numerous hero’s have got free a ability’s now which is cool)… He seems to be a 440 point hunk of meat without a whole lot else going on. 

I’m also trying to work out how likely it is riders of ruin will come into play with combat range being 3”, base sizes, and coherence meaning many things are in 2 ranks. Will we ever be riding over things?

[JackStreicher]

41 minutes ago, TechnoVampire said:

How do others feel about the new VLOZD warscroll? I know it’s technically an improvement, but I can’t help but feel a bit disappointed by it. Probably more of an anvil than a hammer unit? I’m confused by this books lack of command ability’s on hero’s (although I am aware numerous hero’s have got free a ability’s now which is cool)… He seems to be a 440 point hunk of meat without a whole lot else going on. 

I’m also trying to work out how likely it is riders of ruin will come into play with combat range being 3”, base sizes, and coherence meaning many things are in 2 ranks. Will we ever be riding over things?

3 Attacks on his lance are just too few. In my experience it happens too often that none of those attacks even wound.

The sword seems like a better option imo esp.  since all sources of +1 attack for non-summonable units have been scratched. 🤷🏼‍♂️

The 4+ to hit make no sense to me. It’s like they were afraid those unit could actually deal significant damage. (For the same reason the Mortarch mounts won’t do a lot)
 

I feel like the Terrorgheist isn‘t great either

Edited April 7, 2023 by JackStreicher

[TechnoVampire]

10 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

3 Attacks on his lance are just too few. In my experience it happens too often that none of those attacks even wound.

The sword seems like a better option imo esp.  since all sources of +1 attack for non-summonable units have been scratched. 🤷🏼‍♂️

The 4+ to hit make no sense to me. It’s like they were afraid those unit could actually deal significant damage. (For the same reason the Mortarch mounts won’t do a lot)
 

I feel like the Terrorgheist isn‘t great either

I agree. I don’t know why GW seems to think that a vampire on a dragon should be a very unreliable source of damage and provide no buffs or utility or whatsoever. The warscroll looks almost unchanged from the one in LON years ago (aside from the good healing ability) and feels very outclassed by newer monster hero’s. At 440 points it feels like a miss to me… maybe in Kastelai with buffs, artefacts and command trait it could be worth something, but I don’t feel like trying to build a good unit out of an underwhelming warscroll is very appealing. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

55 minutes ago, TechnoVampire said:

I’m also trying to work out how likely it is riders of ruin will come into play with combat range being 3”, base sizes, and coherence meaning many things are in 2 ranks. Will we ever be riding over things?

I'm a simple man. Blood Knights are too complicated for me. I'll just run 10 Black Knights and a Wight King instead for 12 charge Mortals on average (and no damage at any other time, lol).

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

7 minutes ago, TechnoVampire said:

The warscroll looks almost unchanged from the one in LON years ago (aside from the good healing ability) and feels very outclassed by newer monster hero’s.

Speaking of which, the old VLoZD witn Ethereal Amulet can make a comeback in Legions of Blood again. Not sure if there is a way to layer a 5+ ward on top, as well, but that's a hugely tanky unit. Especially with the new Hunger, which I think people are still undervaluing at the moment.

[JackStreicher]

Is it just me or is the army lacking in the hammer department, again?

We have overtune-able Grave Guard (as before). Apart from that maybe Blood Knights, though they deal too little damage.

Vamp Lords on Dragons are too unreliable and expensive.

Vengorian Lords remained a meme.

Have you guys found anything?

 

*sad Nagash noises*

Edited April 7, 2023 by JackStreicher

[Gery81]

I know I want to try out -1 to hit grave guard with a 3+ un-rendable save. Plus whatever other defensive buffs I can get. That is a unit that can take and dish out some damage.

[Malakithe]

Who needs a hammer? Just drown everything in massed Skeletons

[JackStreicher]

11 minutes ago, Gery81 said:

I know I want to try out -1 to hit grave guard with a 3+ un-rendable save. Plus whatever other defensive buffs I can get. That is a unit that can take and dish out some damage.

Indeed. Almost all buffs are restricted to summonable units, of which only one isn‘t a tarpit: Grave Guards.

By design we are supposed to spam Grave Guards and ignore the (unbuffable) Vampire part of the army 👌🏻 because we are not allowed to deal damage for reasons.

3 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Who needs a hammer? Just drown everything in massed Skeletons

That’s sadly super lame for both players.

 

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Edited April 7, 2023 by JackStreicher

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Who needs a hammer? Just drown everything in massed Skeletons

Gravelords definitely look to be even more of a grindy army than before. I think we should just accept that and not try to make it play like, say, Ironjawz.

[AHexInScarletRed]

Blood-born dish out the same Wounds per Point as Grave Guard with unbuffed Blood Knights on the charge not that far behind (0.057 GG & BB vs 0.051 with Blood Knights). Haven't calced anything else apart from Radukar Beast (0.029) yet. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just now, AHexInScarletRed said:

Blood-born dish out the same Wounds per Point as Grave Guard with unbuffed Blood Knights on the charge not that far behind (0.057 GG & BB vs 0.051 with Blood Knights). Haven't calced anything else apart from Radukar Beast (0.029) yet. 

Plus, The Hunger. Definitely a huge plus, even compared to the powerful SUMMONABLE keyword. For Blood Knights it will make a big difference in their performance.

Just look at how strong these warscrolls are just by themselves, guys. Synergies are just a distraction if the baseline is already good.

[TechnoVampire]

Trying to look past my initial disappointments, I feel like blood knights in Kastelai with support from Vhordria could be turned into fast moving and pretty tanky hammers. Use Vhordria to pick off a hero, or unit with 3+ wounds and start handing out those + 1 damage and wound buffs to blood knights. If you take VLOZD as general you can give him the command trait that lets him also get the buffs for free so start adding to his attacks and damage… it’s a niche list with limitations for sure, but potentially fast, hard hitting and tanky with a lot of 3+ saves and self healing supplemented by 6+ ward. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by TechnoVampire

[AHexInScarletRed]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Plus, The Hunger. Definitely a huge plus, even compared to the powerful SUMMONABLE keyword. For Blood Knights it will make a big difference in their performance.

Just look at how strong these warscrolls are just by themselves, guys. Synergies are just a distraction if the baseline is already good.

The Hunger on Vargheists is just so good too with the 4 Wounds. I'm calcing those Wounds per Point with a 4+ save to get an idea and Vargheists are at 0.046 compared to Blood-Born's 0.057 but have 1 more Wound to abuse The Hunger and a 5+ instead of a 6+.

[MotherGoose]

4 hours ago, TechnoVampire said:

I’m also trying to work out how likely it is riders of ruin will come into play with combat range being 3”, base sizes, and coherence meaning many things are in 2 ranks. Will we ever be riding over things?

It'll be incredibly easy to get off, for one you can just run or use command to run 6 and have 16 inch move to go over anything - remember you don't have to go over the whole unit, just pop a base 1mm over then move back away from them.

If you're 3" away when you make a charge move, if you roll a 4+ then you can fly 0.1 inch over the unit you're charging then fly back and land in combat.

If you're retreating, just fly 0.1 inch over the models you're in combat with then use the remaining 9.9 inches to retreat.

It'll be extremely easy to do.

Picture a scenario where your opponent fails a charge on blood knights, it's now your turn and they're 6.5 inches away from you.

You move 6.6 to touch them, then move back 3.4 so you're out of combat, you do d3 mortals.

Now you're 3.4 inches away for your charge, you roll a 4 and move 3.5 inches over them to do mortals again and move back 0.4 inches to be within half an inch for a successful charge. That's 2d3 mortals before even fighting.

How about you move 3" away from 3 front line units, get a super lucky 10+ charge to go over them and into the tasty heroes hiding behind, deal 3d3 mortals to the front lines and get into combat with the heroes at the back.

In legion of night they can even do it in the enemy turn.

Edited April 7, 2023 by MotherGoose

[TechnoVampire]

3 minutes ago, MotherGoose said:

It'll be incredibly easy to get off, for one you can just run or use command to run 6 and have 16 inch move to go over anything - remember you don't have to go over the whole unit, just pop a base 1mm over then move back away from them.

If you're 3" away when you make a charge move, if you roll a 4+ then you can fly 0.1 inch over the unit you're charging then fly back and land in combat.

If you're retreating, just fly 0.1 inch over the models you're in combat with then use the remaining 9.9 inches to retreat.

It'll be extremely easy to do.

Haha ok perfect. Never considered these tactics, but a bit of movement cheese can go a long way. Thanks! 😆

ps I’ve run out of reactions for the day, but I’m enjoying many of the ideas and comments. 

[MotherGoose]

Just now, TechnoVampire said:

Haha ok perfect. Never considered these tactics, but a bit of movement cheese can go a long way. Thanks! 😆

ps I’ve run out of reactions for the day, but I’m enjoying many of the ideas and comments. 

Yea it's the same for all endless spells etc. You don't have to go across the entire unit and end behind them, just touch them and come back.

[Vasshpit]

4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

All Wight kings are summonable! That makes them the biggest winners of the book ❤️

That's cool! Do they take up a hero slot then or hows this work? Like what's the actual benifits? 

[AHexInScarletRed]

Just now, Vasshpit said:

That's cool! Do they take up a hero slot then or hows this work? Like what's the actual benifits? 

You can revive them when they're dead, used as a regular Hero before and after. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

8 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

You can revive them when they're dead, used as a regular Hero before and after. 

And they can go in the grave and heal themselves with Deathly Invocation, too. Super nice.

[Vasshpit]

9 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

You can revive them when they're dead, used as a regular Hero before and after. 

Alright, alright. 🤘💀🤘 

Just saw their new scrolls and they're looking tasty as well. Very cool.