Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just now, Liquidsteel said:

Vyrkos artefacts aren't out yet are they? Run and charge bubble could be on-theme.

Don't give me hope.

[Ghoooouls]

Seeing as vyrkos seems to be our 'magic' subfaction, I'm hoping for some artefacts that bonus casts/unbinds/dispels as well

[FeralMulan]

1 minute ago, Ghoooouls said:

Seeing as vyrkos seems to be our 'magic' subfaction, I'm hoping for some artefacts that bonus casts/unbinds/dispels as well

I doubt that will matter. With Auto unbinds and +4 unbinding anywhere galore, I think spellcasting will have to be a "Nice to Have" rather than anything reliable.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

I doubt that will matter. With Auto unbinds and +4 unbinding anywhere galore, I think spellcasting will have to be a "Nice to Have" rather than anything reliable.

The real magic subfaction is bringing Nagash.

[Ghoooouls]

1 minute ago, FeralMulan said:

I doubt that will matter. With Auto unbinds and +4 unbinding anywhere galore, I think spellcasting will have to be a "Nice to Have" rather than anything reliable.

I can only think of a couple of units I the game off the top of my head that have regular auto unbinds/dispels.

An extra bonus to cast would be great with the ready easy to get buffs from carts/mortis etc. And rerolls.

[umpac]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

They are tanky enough to last one battleround, hopefully.

5+ 6++ and 1 wound is sooo fragile. Anything with damage will turn them to dust on the charge. There are a lot of good/decent screens in the book though so that's something.

You can make the kind of tanky but it requires more support via the Throne and some debuff spells or corpse cart. If you go sword and board they deal 25 damage to 4+ which is enough, 36 with vamp buff, and can get down to 3+, 6++, -1hit/wound which gives them good staying power. Staying cheap might be better though, just get a unit of 20 as a glass cannon that you can afford to lose and if they are ignored they go in and insta-gib something.

[Liquidsteel]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The real magic subfaction is bringing Nagash.

Nagash in Vyrkos, with full rerolls is nice. Still, Teclis can break any combos you try by stopping the most important spell (whatever that is), and you can't cast any offensive spells at them anyway because they bounceback the mortals on a 4+.

Honestly, Nagash needs something like "spells that are cast and not unbound cannot be ignored".

[FeralMulan]

1 minute ago, Liquidsteel said:

Nagash in Vyrkos, with full rerolls is nice. Still, Teclis can break any combos you try by stopping the most important spell (whatever that is), and you can't cast any offensive spells at them anyway because they bounceback the mortals on a 4+.

Honestly, Nagash needs something like "spells that are cast and not unbound cannot be ignored".

Nagash is not a Vampire
 

No full rerolls sadly.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

3 minutes ago, umpac said:

5+ 6++ and 1 wound is sooo fragile. Anything with damage will turn them to dust on the charge. There are a lot of good/decent screens in the book though so that's something.

You can make the kind of tanky but it requires more support via the Throne and some debuff spells or corpse cart. If you go sword and board they deal 25 damage to 4+ which is enough, 36 with vamp buff, and can get down to 3+, 6++, -1hit/wound which gives them good staying power. Staying cheap might be better though, just get a unit of 20 as a glass cannon that you can afford to lose and if they are ignored they go in and insta-gib something.

Yeah, here's the stats:

		Save shields with coven throne vyrkos great blades with vamp lord 2+ 14.81 24.44 3+ 19.44 33.33 4+ 24.07 42.22 5+ 28.7 51.11 6+ 33.33 60 - 33.33 60
		All for 20 Grave Guard. I think Sword and Board damage will generally be enough, too. And at least right now that's a 3+ save.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[FeralMulan]

4 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

I can only think of a couple of units I the game off the top of my head that have regular auto unbinds/dispels.

An extra bonus to cast would be great with the ready easy to get buffs from carts/mortis etc. And rerolls.

Teclis can, Tzeetch can, Seraphon might as well be able to with all their buffs. These are all pretty popular factions.

[Ghoooouls]

11 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

Teclis can, Tzeetch can, Seraphon might as well be able to with all their buffs. These are all pretty popular factions.

Yeah teclis and tzeentch were the ones I was thinking, correct me if im wrong but Loc can only auto dispel dispel endless within 18, and teclis only has a single auto unbind which yes is blooming irritating, but also could be out of range or need it for a different spell if we bring a magic heavy list.

Either way going magic heavy vs lumineth with teclis is a pretty bad idea and rightly so, at least we have options to get at him now and disrupt his annoying archer /spear lines easier.

I actually play against all three of the factions you mention regularly, and I think if we can get +3 to cast with full rerolls that is tasty. It's already easy enough with grandma wolf and some buff units. She's definitely my favourite of the new units.

There's also a hell of a lot of factions in the game, so comparing or even having the option of being slightly comparable to the top 3 magic armies around is good enough for me.

I'd just like to see some magic based artefacts and traits, like FEC have.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Ghoooouls

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Another prospective list:

Leaders
Neferata Mortarch of Blood (365)
- Lore of the Dead: Prison of Grief
Coven Throne (310)
- General
- Command Trait: Sanguine Blur
- Artefact: Soulbound Garments
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Necromancer (125)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (125)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour

Battleline
30 x Skeleton Warriors (255)
- Ancient Blades
30 x Skeleton Warriors (255)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Dire Wolves (135)

Units
30 x Grave Guard (420)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

 

A more defensive version of the other list.

The Coven Throne goes together with the Grave Guard. It gives them +1 to hit/wound/save and a 6" pile in. That means an attack profile of 2 attacks 2+/2+/-1/1 with mortals on 6s to wound. The artefact give the Coven Throne a 3+ save. Pinions give it a 20" move turn one if you get it off. The idea is to put the Grave Guard in the grave and run the throne up to support them right away, hopefully putting pressure on the opponent early with this ridiculous anvil/hammer mix unit.

Skeletons get a pet necromancer each for support. The necros provide incidental value with Lore of Deathmages debuffs. This list has four wizards, so some spells will probably get through.

Dire Wolves screen as always.

Not really sure what Neferata does, have not seen the scroll. But she's another reasonably tanky threat that can give Ethereal with a spell and cast Deathmages lore spells, so that's cool.

I think this list would probably better if I took out 30 skeletons and a necromancer and put some more fast stuff in there. There may also well be useful models I have overlooked, like the Vengorian Lord for example. But again, this is just brewing with models already in my collection.

[umpac]

2 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

Yeah teclis and tzeentch were the ones I was thinking, correct me if im wrong but Loc can only auto dispel dispel endless within 18, and teclis only has a single auto unbind which yes is blooming irritating, but also could be out of range or need it for a different spell if we bring a magic heavy list.

DoT has auto-unbindin one of their popular subfactions. They also have DDs for auto-unbinding important casts and LoCs ability to change lowest to highest is bonkers for unbinding. Teclis only has one, but one is plenty. Seraphon has global +2 unbinds (maybe more depending on how new Kroak is) which isnt auto-unbind but defintely shuts down a lot of your spells. Sadly +0 casters are in a rough spot, if your strategy relies on them you are in for a bad time. I'll still take necros but they will be kind of a dead weight in some match ups.

[Ghoooouls]

8 minutes ago, umpac said:

DoT has auto-unbindin one of their popular subfactions. They also have DDs for auto-unbinding important casts and LoCs ability to change lowest to highest is bonkers for unbinding. Teclis only has one, but one is plenty. Seraphon has global +2 unbinds (maybe more depending on how new Kroak is) which isnt auto-unbind but defintely shuts down a lot of your spells. Sadly +0 casters are in a rough spot, if your strategy relies on them you are in for a bad time. I'll still take necros but they will be kind of a dead weight in some match ups.

Yea but it has kinda been that way for while with necros and low casters having poor match ups.

I think +3 with rerolls is better than the LOC ability but I'm not great at maths... average would be 10+? Probably higher with the reroll. Not sure what the LOC average is.

But so far the only way I can think to get +3 is with wolf grandma and some buffs like a cart, mortis, magic scenery etc.

Maybe we get an item like the claw from legions of nagash where you stay still but have an aura of +2 to cast. Who knows. I'd find it strange if there were no magic-based artefacts for sure.

One of my favourite fun lists to use was arkhan, legion of sac, where he could get like +4 or 5 to cast with ease. I'll sure miss that type of army.

Edit: but hey we have a lot of new toys to try so I'm sure I'll get over it.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Ghoooouls

[BoneHeart]

1 hour ago, FeralMulan said:

I think it is referring to specifically the models rather than Keywords, but I could be wrong. In which case maybe a bit better? I still don't like them.

Keywords are always bold capitals so its keywords - vlozd can get this.

[Frowny]

I am surprised at how much doom and gloom there was earlier. This seems like a very strong battletome, although with slightly different strong units.

Some interesting Combos:

Coven Throne + Pack Alpha. Best command ability, using it for free is awesome. Note that pack alpha can also use one during the enemy turn as well, so even though you can't use the main CP ability, so it will likely be at least rerolling 1's to save for increased durability

Coven throne + Blood Knights- They really like all aspects of the ability, not just some. 2+ sv blood knights are comparable to mortek guard w/ a 4+ rerollable in terms of survivability per point. 

Coven throne+ VLZOD- again, benefits from all aspects of the ability

Vengorian Lord + Coven Throne- again benefits from both aspects, giving a 2+ save that ignores rend 1, and can heal for an easy d3+d6 per turn. Will be a nightmare to take down. 

VZLOD/Mannfred/Vengorian Lord + Pinions spell- I think this will be a sleeper strong combination for turn 1. +6 inches gives you excellent odds of a turn 1 charge on anything with 12-16 inch movement, like all of the above. All of the above can also get easy access to a 2+ save, or have other annoying survivability boosts. Pinning an enemy in their deployment and forcing them to spend serious effort to get out makes it easy to get way ahead on objectives. Mobility is strong

 

More stand alone pieces-

Mannfred- near unkillable by himself anyway, generally useful in a lot of lists, even if he doesn't benefit from the allegiance abilities for a different subfaction

Dire Wolves- Fast, quite sturdy for their cost, don't really benefit much from offensive buffs since with such big bases its hard to get many into CC or defensive buffs. +1 sv isn best when you have a baseline 4+ or 3+. Excellent to run up and take objectives, excellent to resurrect later with high mv to take uncontested objectives, high durability to hold them. 5 likely have enough damage output to contest a late game objective held by a lone wizard or small unit.

Skeletons- Contrary to what seems like consensus belief here, seems like they are a sturdy objective camper. I like them for that role. If that is what you want, an anvil to maneuver around mid or back field, I think they will be better than zombies. After all, zombies really want to activate early to use their pile in before too many die, while skellies are better on a later activation, leaving you to use your early activations on stronger units.

Radukar- Buffs most other things, but doesn't really himself require support. Dire wolves as a summon are great, and + attack goes well on lots of different things, from zombie dragons with multiple high damage profiles to grave guard to zombies.

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Frowny

[Aren73]

@Frowny You're right on and those are some quite strong interactions. 

The issue with the Coven Throne being the powerhouse you just mentioned is that it makes it extremely desirable. It will feature heavily in tournament lists. Which will just encourage GW to nerf it. 

Our book shouldn't be good because of a few strong units. I'd much rather a larger amount of units being decent than a few being really strong. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Aren73 said:

The issue with the Coven Throne being the powerhouse you just mentioned is that it makes it extremely desirable. It will feature heavily in tournament lists. Which will just encourage GW to nerf it. 

While I like the Coven Throne, I think it also has several drawbacks.

It's a big target with decaying profiles and natively only on a 4+ save, only 6+ FNP usually. It does not really want to charge things, unlike all other big heroes we have, which hurts since it's fairly expensive at 310. Coven Throne benefits a lot from Pack Alpha, but faces steep competition from Hunter's Snare for your command trait.

One nice piece of tech if you want to pair the coven throne with a big boy like the VLoZD or Vengorian Lord is to also slap a realm artefact on there while they are still around. Chamon for ignore rend -1 (especially nice with Vengorian Lords lowering rend by one, basically ethereal at that point), or shyish for reroll saves of 1.

[keen]

It looks like people like the zombie / deathstench drove battalion combo for the +1A on the zombies. 

How can we rely on a 6W & 6+SV model (corpse cart) for the buffs that can easily be shut down even by the worst shooters in one round? As part of this battalion the corpse cart will easily get focus.

Maybe there are options I currently just don't see to protect it. 

 

BTW, regarding the new skeletons, as an opponent I would just wait to fight against them up until the very end of the combat phase and let them fight first. They won't do any harm anyway 🙂 So it always depends on the number of activations on each side if the rule to bring them back on a 4+ kicks in. 

[Sception]

3 minutes ago, keen said:

It looks like people like the zombie / deathstench drove battalion combo for the +1A on the zombies. 

How can we rely on a 6W & 6+SV model (corpse cart) for the buffs that can easily be shut down even by the worst shooters in one round? As part of this battalion the corpse cart will easily get focus.

I mean, you can take 2 corpse carts so the enemy at least has to take out more than one to kill the bonus, and it can take the pressure off vampire lords who offer the same bonus with their CA.  2x 40 zombies, cart, vampire, necromancer, & 10 dire wolves with the battalion is over 1500 points, but it also looks like a pretty solid battle line in the traditional sense, with 480 points left over for... I don't know.  Something.  Prince Vhordrai?  Venga lord & Belladamma Volga?  10 blood knights?  Probably not enough, regardless.

It may not matter anyway since book battalions are rumored to be illegal for pitched battle in 3e.

[JackStreicher]

35 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

The issue with the Coven Throne being the powerhouse you just mentioned is that it makes it extremely desirable. It will feature heavily in tournament lists. Which will just encourage GW to nerf it. 

Well. I still think it‘s a bad trade off to spent 310 for one Command Ability on a otherwise pretty bad unit.

 

on the matter of skeletons: I love the models, I just don‘t find a valid argument to use them ever. Can s.o. Please change my mind? 🥲

Edited May 14, 2021 by JackStreicher

[Ghoooouls]

What are peoples thoughts on the big boy himself being 975... updated warscroll surely?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

on the matter of skeletons: I love the models, I just don‘t find a valid argument to use them ever. Can s.o. Please change my mind?

I think the case for including one unit of 30 skeletons to sit on objectives is pretty strong. They are cheap enough and don't really need support since they self-heal. Sure, an opponent who dedicates a hammer to removing them will probably succeed, but they will need to dedicate a hammer, because they are hard to grind down. And then you at least have a chance to bring something back with Endless Legions.

I still think running a lot of Summonable battleline is strong. Endless Legions is not controllable anymore, but it is free value.

[Malakithe]

No ones respecting the humble Vargheists?

[Malakithe]

2 hours ago, FeralMulan said:

Teclis can, Tzeetch can, Seraphon might as well be able to with all their buffs. These are all pretty popular factions.

Knight-Incantor has auto-unbind once per game. Runelords also have +2 to unbinds