Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation

[Aren73]

Completely unrelated but I love your username @FeralMulan. 
Would go really well on a female Vengorian Lord.

[Reinholt]

So after reading all the leaks and ignoring the thread so far, my initial impressions:

 

1 - This army plays very differently. Respawn giant units? Gone. A lot of the previous spell combo stuff? Gone. Some of the units are dramatically less useful (looking at you, mounted wights). Some of the heroes are... lackluster (regular foot vamp?).

 

2 - Some of the new stuff has serious play. Blood Knights are a thing with the toughness, ability to leave combat and refresh charge, etc. I think my initial read is that Kastelai, Vyrkos, and perhaps the Avengorii are going to have play (objectives could be an issue for the latter unless AoS 3 changes how that works). Corpse carts seem useful again. The zombies and grave guard dishing mortals is a real thing, especially with the right buffs.

 

3 - Wound efficiency for the new direwolves changes their role from cheap chaff to kind of annoyingly large amounts of fast moving wound spam. Not high quality wounds, mind you, but quantity is a quality of its own.

 

4 - Overall I rate these guys as solidly in the fat middle with maybe a power build or two (I think Blood Knights might be sneaky good in that people tend to underrate movement nonsense on paper until they see it on the field, and unpinnable highly durable battleline that can dish it out is exactly what powers Idoneth, so... maybe not quite at that level but those guys have play).

 

I think the fail is that there's some stuff that obviously is just ****** (why make an insanely good wight model and then give it insanely bad rules?) and/or just underpowered, but there's also some good stuff. A real mixed bag, but neither despair nor euphoria seem justified.

[Sception]

spells and command abilities affect mounts.  Command traits and artefacts don't.  Unless they say otherwise.

...

Invigorating aura is probably going to be a standard spell for vamps to cast.  scroll spells are often too high DC, lore spells kind of bad.  IA isn't a sufficient replacement for stacking invocations, but it's still probably something you're going to want to try to cast at least once a turn, and deathmages have better spells to worry about.

[Raptor_Jesues]

10 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

Someone help me because I always mess this up. What buffs do or do not have an effect on the mounts?

 - Spells do
 - Command abilities... don't?
 - Relics don't
- Do Command Traits? Do faction abilities?

that ability is specifically not for mounts but usually only relics and command traits do not affect mounts. 

On another note I also wish to point out that while yes, vampire spells are mostly a bit underhwelming, they will proc twice 30% of the times so we are not that bad in that regard. You may as well consider that something that deals D3MW actually deals D4 or something like that

Edited May 13, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues

[BaylorCorvette]

2 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

Someone help me because I always mess this up. What buffs do or do not have an effect on the mounts?

 - Spells do
 - Command abilities... don't?
 - Relics don't
- Do Command Traits? Do faction abilities?

Unless otherwise stated, everything will modify both mount and rider attack profile except Command Traits & Artefacts. So yes Spells, Command Abilities and Faction Abilities DO.

[Beliman]

The new Dark Mist+Coven Throne CA seems to be powerful but really fun. 

[El Syf]

Can someone help me out with the Crimson Court? Prince Duvalle fair enough, the other 3 share 3 wounds? That seems a bit ****** right? I'd happily pay 200 just for Duvalle tbh.

[Sception]

2 minutes ago, Beliman said:

The new Dark Mist+Coven Throne CA seems to be powerful but really fun. 

They do.  The issue is they're both on pretty expensive and fragile platforms.  I'm hoping neferata gets a cool rule like mannfred got to make her more tempting & harder to pin down, but I'm not holding out a lot of hope for it.  I feel like if she were getting something like that they would have previewed it today instead of her spell.

[FeralMulan]

4 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

that ability is specifically not for mounts but usually only relics and command traits do not affect mounts. 

On another note I also wish to point out that while yes, vampire spells are mostly a bit underhwelming, they will proc twice 33% of the times so we are not that bad in that regard. You may as well consider that something that deals D3MW actually deals D4 or something like that

Maybe, but which ones do I want going off twice?

 

 - Blades of Shyish? Maybe, but I still have to roll a 5+ just to get a single MW

 - Spirit Gale? Probably... except for anything above LD7, at which point it's most likely doing very little. Still, probably the best.
 - Soul Spike? I GUESS? Still need to roll a 4+ each time and if it is a short charge, it does laughably little.

 - Pinions? Expclicitly does nothing on the double cast.

 - Vile Transference? I want to forget this spell exists.

 - Orb? Now we cooking. Need to be a bit too close, but tasty

 

Honestly, I just don't care about these spells in the slightest.

[Sception]

1 minute ago, El Syf said:

Can someone help me out with the Crimson Court? Prince Duvalle fair enough, the other 3 share 3 wounds? That seems a bit ****** right? I'd happily pay 200 just for Duvalle tbh.

I think one of the other three has +2 wounds characteristic, so they share 4 wounds.  I personally wouldn't pay 200 for just duvalle.  he still strikes me as mostly a worse vampire lord, and I already consider them extremely lackluster at 140.

[Nightseer2012]

Ok... pushing positive mental attitude and diving for fun combinations... ummm...

Realm of Fire's Incandesent Rageblade (Artifiact: 6's to hit explode into 2 attacks, make wound rolls and saves for each)

Legion of Blood's Walking Death (Trait: 6's to Wound cause mortal wounds = to weapons damage instead of normal)

on a Vengorian Lord (Who is not forcibly tied to the Avengorii Bloodline apparently) .  The the Rageblade onto his claws, possibility for multiple exploding mortal wounds on a D6?  Nice thing about the Vengorian Lord, all of those attacks count as the Vampire (not a mounted monster like the VLoZD).  Idk, I am just trying to make fun our of random at this point, lol.

[El Syf]

3 minutes ago, Sception said:

I think one of the other three has +2 wounds characteristic, so they share 4 wounds.  I personally wouldn't pay 200 for just duvalle.  he still strikes me as mostly a worse vampire lord, and I already consider them extremely lackluster at 140.

Maybe suffering from my love of the model!

[Aren73]

Someone help me see the value in the Shifting Keep ability. 

Why would I want to chuck a unit or two of blood knights in the enemy back lines when they are unlikely to make the charge? I can't even give them a character to let them reroll charges. 

Perhaps a 10-15 man unit that expects to lose some models before they fight...but just seems a bit wasteful. If we could chuck over a VLoZD or Vhordrai that'd be a different matter. 

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Boar said:

It made me look at their warscrolls. Kritza has funny ability that if he is slain at end of movement phase he is re-setup on 4+ 9" away from enemy. It's not restricted to one res either.

 

1 hour ago, BaylorCorvette said:

It is similar to Skarr Bloodwraths ability from Blades of Khorne. Kinda cool and I like it.

I don't hate him or Annika, but they are pet choices in my opinion. At least they are cheap.

[FeralMulan]

Just now, Aren73 said:

Someone help me see the value in the Shifting Keep ability. 

Why would I want to chuck a unit or two of blood knights in the enemy back lines when they are unlikely to make the charge? I can't even give them a character to let them reroll charges. 

Perhaps a 10-15 man unit that expects to lose some models before they fight...but just seems a bit wasteful. If we could chuck over a VLoZD or Vhordrai that'd be a different matter. 

 

Agreed, the only use I see for it is hiding them from a heavy shooting army with low drops.

 

Not much of a consolation price, but there it is.

[Raptor_Jesues]

Just now, FeralMulan said:

Agreed, the only use I see for it is hiding them from a heavy shooting army with low drops.

 

Not much of a consolation price, but there it is.

those are a big hit in the meta though, i am not complaining

[Nightseer2012]

4 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

Maybe, but which ones do I want going off twice?

 

 - Blades of Shyish? Maybe, but I still have to roll a 5+ just to get a single MW

 - Spirit Gale? Probably... except for anything above LD7, at which point it's most likely doing very little. Still, probably the best.
 - Soul Spike? I GUESS? Still need to roll a 4+ each time and if it is a short charge, it does laughably little.

 - Pinions? Expclicitly does nothing on the double cast.

 - Vile Transference? I want to forget this spell exists.

 - Orb? Now we cooking. Need to be a bit too close, but tasty

 

Honestly, I just don't care about these spells in the slightest.

If it works the same way as in Legion of Nagash, Locus of Shyish allows you to target a different unit when "resolving" the spell a second time, so Pinions on different units is actually nice, Soul Spike is meh, but on two different units "could" be something.

[Sception]

Pinions explicitly can only affect the caster.  locus does not work with it.

[Nightseer2012]

Just now, Sception said:

Pinions explicitly can only affect the caster.  locus does not work with it.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH.... WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS BOOK.  IT IS SO JANKY.  Gah.... trying so hard...

[FeralMulan]

3 minutes ago, Nightseer2012 said:

If it works the same way as in Legion of Nagash, Locus of Shyish allows you to target a different unit when "resolving" the spell a second time, so Pinions on different units is actually nice, Soul Spike is meh, but on two different units "could" be something.

Yeah, Pinions specifically ONLY affects the caster. And EXPLICITLY cannot be buffed twice. Such a weird limitation to include.

[FeralMulan]

5 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

those are a big hit in the meta though, i am not complaining

I guess? But if they come in next turn and miss their charge I have gained nothing  They just shoot me then.

[Raptor_Jesues]

30 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

Maybe, but which ones do I want going off twice?

 

 - Blades of Shyish? Maybe, but I still have to roll a 5+ just to get a single MW
yes, the spell is pretty damn bad, on average you need to be witin 6 units to get 2MW or 3 units if you get a double proc. If you get in the middle of a lot of MSU and get a double proc then nice but otherwishe meh 

 - Spirit Gale? Probably... except for anything above LD7, at which point it's most likely doing very little. Still, probably the best. it will hurt 7 or less bravery quite hard, there are quite a number of units like that

 - Soul Spike? I GUESS? Still need to roll a 4+ each time and if it is a short charge, it does laughably little.
well yes but on two units it can get some value

 - Pinions? Expclicitly does nothing on the double cast. true but the spell is pretty good already

 - Vile Transference? I want to forget this spell exists. this spell is very weird, you are right

 - Orb? Now we cooking. Need to be a bit too close, but tasty as you said, this will hurt

 

Honestly, I just don't care about these spells in the slightest.

so 3 and good spells and an ok one out of 6, not good but not bad either. Personally i am not planning on using more than 3 vampire heroes so this is all i need really

also invigorating aura is there, while not easy to pull off it usually will be a double proc wich is nice.

Unrelated but not really, can we now get a Soulblight gravelord strategy thread since we mostly have rules?

Edited May 13, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues

[Belmail]

17 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

so 3 and good spells and an ok one out of 6, not good but not bad either. Personally i am not planning on using more than 3 vampire heroes so this is all i need really

also invigorating aura is there, while not easy to pull off it usually will be a double proc wich is nice.

Unrelated but not really, can we now get a Soulblight gravelord strategy thread since we mostly have rules?

Hilariously, you cannot double proc the invo spell since it is neither a lore of vampires or deathmages spell.

[FeralMulan]

Something I just noticed, if you are going for Zombie Hordes, would Legion of Night be your best bet?

 - Unbending Will for Bravery Immune
 - Mannfred can cast the good DeathMage debuffs, and if he kills anything he buffs your Zombies
 - Ambush can get around their slowness

I dunno, I don't like Horde Style armies, but this idea just hit me. Anyone think differently?

[Raptor_Jesues]

1 minute ago, Belmail said:

Hilariously, you cannot double proc the invo spell since it is neither a lore of vampires or deathmages spell.

LOL. Well im fairly sure it will be errata'd