AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[ibel]

44 minutes ago, Rors said:

you can give him the always strike first artifact.

Sry this artefact is for DP only.

2 hours ago, Beliman said:

Are they that bad?

No they are not. The Stats are good, the Warscroll and so everything... BUT... If u use Rally (in my games/mind) u really want to roll 7-8 or more dice even if u just need a 5+ OR the Modell is really expensive like Dragon so just 1 6 or 5 is good. But hear in the S2D Batteltome if u take a really Expensive Unit = Varanguards u take the KnightHost and rally the Biggest Unit on 5+ and get the very very good Run+Charge Ability. So....Jes the 4+ was way to good for Varanguards and very very good for 20er Blocks CW. and I think okay for the 10 Dude big Blocks of Choosen and Knights, now... mhmm we will see.

[Bayul]

7 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Thought experiment: Saw someone equate Chosen to Paladins, they said they are Chaos Paladins. Apparently one of the things that "allows" Paladins to be good is deep strike, to the best of my understanding. Someone posted that while Chosen might be good, they're slow and it might be a problem getting them to where they are going. 

See, that's why I am asking around about the Gaunt Summoner. You could create a really fast army with a Gaunt Summoner on Disc, a Lord of Change, Chaos Knights, a Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount and two units of Chosen in the Tower.

Cast Daemonic Speed beforehand on the Knights, move everything to a better position, bring your Chosen back from the tower and enjoy your 3D6 charge with the Knights. Put the Tzeentch banner on the Knights to protect against Unleash Hell.

edit: Although, when you yeet units from the Silver Tower into enemy territory or on objectives Chaos Warriors get their bonus sooner this way. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Bayul

[Ravinsild]

Of course I’m trying to figure out how to get Chosen marked as Khorne into combat. And whether 1 unit of 5 is sufficient or if 2 units of 5 or even 1 unit of 10 is better. 

[LordDave]

23 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Same. I’m going to try a few games as fully Khorne and if it really really doesn’t work I’ll cave and run the Nurgle warrior block but my how I wish I could just run mono Khorne. I don’t like Bloodbound because they don’t play aggressive enough for me. With this rework of Khorne it feels like they’re finally World Eaters lite, able to fight twice in some circumstances, able to dish out mortal wounds on the charge, then just explode into a flurry of violence. It feels very aggro where you just push models forward and roll dice instead of huddling up in a big bubble and being a defensive counter punch army which is what Bloodbound realistically is. I had 10,000 points of Bloodbound and sold it all because it’s just not Khorne. 

That’s my plan too, not sure how competitive it is but I’m planning on something like this…

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness

- Damned Legion: HotEC

- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presenece

Leaders

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (195)*

- General

- Axe

- Command Trait: Idolator Lord

- Artefact: Conqueror’s Crown

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

- Prayers: Heal & Curse

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (220)*

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (170)*

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Bloodsecrator (125)*

- Allies

Battleline

5 x Chaos Knights (230)*

- Cursed Lance

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

- Ensorcelled Banner: Banner of Rage

5 x Chaos Knights (230)*

- Cursed Lance

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

- Ensorcelled Banner: Banner of Rage

1 x Chaos Chariots (100)**

- Greatblades

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

10 x Chaos Warriors (220)***

- Halberd & Shield

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

10 x Chaos Warriors (220)***

- Halberd & Shield

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Units

5 x Flesh Hounds (105)

- Allies

Behemoths

Chaos Warshrine (185)

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

- Prayers: Heal & Curse

Core Battalions

*Warlord

**Bounty Hunters

***Expert Conquerors

Additional Enhancements

Prayer

Total: 2000 / 2000

Reinforced Units: 0 / 4

Allies: 230 / 400

Wounds: 133

Drops: 11

 

 

[Ravinsild]

1 hour ago, LordDave said:

That’s my plan too, not sure how competitive it is but I’m planning on something like this…

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness

- Damned Legion: HotEC

- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presenece

Leaders

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (195)*

- General

- Axe

- Command Trait: Idolator Lord

- Artefact: Conqueror’s Crown

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

- Prayers: Heal & Curse

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (220)*

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (170)*

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Bloodsecrator (125)*

- Allies

Battleline

5 x Chaos Knights (230)*

- Cursed Lance

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

- Ensorcelled Banner: Banner of Rage

5 x Chaos Knights (230)*

- Cursed Lance

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

- Ensorcelled Banner: Banner of Rage

1 x Chaos Chariots (100)**

- Greatblades

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

10 x Chaos Warriors (220)***

- Halberd & Shield

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

10 x Chaos Warriors (220)***

- Halberd & Shield

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Units

5 x Flesh Hounds (105)

- Allies

Behemoths

Chaos Warshrine (185)

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

- Prayers: Heal & Curse

Core Battalions

*Warlord

**Bounty Hunters

***Expert Conquerors

Additional Enhancements

Prayer

Total: 2000 / 2000

Reinforced Units: 0 / 4

Allies: 230 / 400

Wounds: 133

Drops: 11

 

 

Where were you able to make this list? 

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

15 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Thought experiment: Saw someone equate Chosen to Paladins, they said they are Chaos Paladins. Apparently one of the things that "allows" Paladins to be good is deep strike, to the best of my understanding. Someone posted that while Chosen might be good, they're slow and it might be a problem getting them to where they are going. 

While I know of no way to stack a +1 to charge roll with this iteration, is it plausible a Gaunt Summoner (on Disc or Otherwise) and a Tzeentch Marked Chosen unit could be deepstruck via the Silver Tower ability?

My concerns would be no way to deliver (Apparently Stormcast have a way to make the roll 7+ out of deepstrike which is more reliable) out of deepstrike, and loss of offensive power because it's been observed by some that the Tzeentch Mark is pretty weak in this book.

Still, something to think about, maybe.

Chosen are slow, but not as slow as Paladins. They have an extra inch of base movement, a charge bonus, and the potential for more charge bonuses from Eye of the Gods. Are they fast? No, definitely not. But there is value in a unit that can hold midboard objectives and just delete everything that attempts to take them away, I think. I've had two test games (vs Tzeentch and Idoneth) with Chosen so far, and while not a large sample size, they did good work in both.

They also take less popular marks well. Khorne and Nurgle are everyone's go to picks, but Slaanesh can make Chosen surprisingly aggressive for infantry, and Tzeentch Chosen can be teleported ahead of your lines by a Manticore Sorcerer or another mounted hero with Tome/Cabalist casting.

I'm going to keep trying my 10 block for more data (I have a game set up against a friend's Skaven for this Wednesday, and another possible game with S2D on Friday that I expect to be against Sylvaneth). Ultimately, I think they are good so far--they aren't Varanguard, but the 50 pt discount on them vs Varanguard feels about right. Certainly reinforced Chosen vs reinforced Varanguard is a big discount given the high cost of many S2D units.

[Ravinsild]

As a world eaters fan, this comes the closest I could ever want to AoS World Eaters. Battleline Chosen who fight twice (once per game but still) who are basically Khorne Berserkers in fantasy (finally), plus basically the Butcher’s Nails (+1 attack on the charge) like I’m so hype it’s finally here. With the banner even you could pretend it’s like +1 strength (there is no strength stat but strength effect wound rolls so). 
 

So finally there’s a balls to the wall push everything forward Khorne Army that is pure adrenaline aggro who wants nothing more than to get stuck in. No fiddle aura. No weird “fight after you die” stuff etc. i sold all my Khorne Bloodbound because they played like a melee defensive counter punch turtle army instead of fast reckless maniacs who charge across the board asap. 
 

so I have personally been trying to find ways to make Khorne Chosen work. Also I’d love Khorne Chaos Warriors to be a thing, but I feel as though for their purpose (anvils) Nurgle is just way too good to pass up, but I might run mono Khorne anyway because it’s not like I’m going to tournaments. Even if I were, I bet Khorne Chaos Warriors might slap really hard. In enemy territory or fighting for objectives on the charge they feel like they could put out reasonable damage. 

[Bayul]

1 hour ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

They also take less popular marks well.

I hate that this is already a thing.

[Ravinsild]

23 minutes ago, Bayul said:

I hate that this is already a thing.

Yeah I’m really resistant to run anything that isn’t Khorne. I’m still resistant to run the unquestionably actually good Nurgle mark Chaos Warriors with banner… but like… Khorne is my favorite. I also want to run a Khorne Daemon Prince even though based at least on AoS statshammer he would only do maybe 5 wounds to a 4+ save so that’s not very good for 195 pts right?  

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

35 minutes ago, Bayul said:

I hate that this is already a thing.

So do I, but I'd rather advocate for variety by pointing out use-cases than pretend people aren't already gravitating in specific directions. That's what I was trying to communicate, and if I sounded like I was going in the opposite direction, my bad.

[SpiritofHokuto]

To be fair Warriors are inherently pretty tanky, so making them Khorne and using them to bully other "objective holder" units is playing into their strengths in a way.

[whispersofblood]

The reality is -1 to wound rolls, and +1 attack are much easier to understand and think about than +1 to run and charges, cmd abilities, and subfactions, or the synergy available to Tzeentch which is broadly strategic.

[SpiritofHokuto]

+1 to run and charge are pretty easy to parse, especially for a melee only footslogging unit that has easy access to run + charge and potentially a 3d6 charge.

[Bayul]

44 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

So do I, but I'd rather advocate for variety by pointing out use-cases than pretend people aren't already gravitating in specific directions. That's what I was trying to communicate, and if I sounded like I was going in the opposite direction, my bad.

I don't criticize your statement, but the foreseeable internal balance of the book – among Marks of Chaos and Damned Legions.

edit: ...or nobody figured out how meta-warpingly broken Tzeentch actually is yet.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Bayul

[Ravinsild]

Man I want my strategic decisions to basically be “who do I attack first, and in what order do I roll my attack order?” Lol. I want to push dudes forward, roll to charge and start swinging the true Khorne way. 

[Bayul]

2 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Man I want my strategic decisions to basically be “who do I attack first, and in what order do I roll my attack order?” Lol. I want to push dudes forward, roll to charge and start swinging the true Khorne way. 

That's Orks. You want to play Orks. You didn't even mention the words "Blood" or "Skulls"!

[Ravinsild]

10 minutes ago, Bayul said:

That's Orks. You want to play Orks. You didn't even mention the words "Blood" or "Skulls"!

I already play Ironjawz haha. Khorne looks like it’s going to be very similar this battletome

[Mutton]

8 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Of course I’m trying to figure out how to get Chosen marked as Khorne into combat. And whether 1 unit of 5 is sufficient or if 2 units of 5 or even 1 unit of 10 is better. 

Bloodstoker ally.

[SpiritofHokuto]

11 minutes ago, Mutton said:

Bloodstoker ally.

A temporary thing at best. Dollars to donuts it'll change (as well as Bloodstoker) to BoK only in the next Khorne book. So if you have an appropriate proxy go nuts, but don't invest money in it. 

[Ravinsild]

I happen to have a Bloodstoker on the Sprue but I find it too difficult to find points for much or anything. 
 

My list is looking like 1 Daemon Prince of either Khorne or Nurgle. 

1 Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount marked Khorne

1 Chaos Lord on Foot marked Khorne 

1 Either Tzeentch or Undivided Chaos Sorcerer Lord 

2 sets of 10 Chaos Warriors my heart wants to run as Khorne but my brain says to run as Nurgle 

2 sets of 5 Knights marked Khorne

2 sets of Chosen marked Khorne

if I am not mistaken this will run me 1980 points and every piece feels difficult to drop haha

 

[Rors]

Khorne warriors will want screens so that they can get their charges off. Fortunately we have a billion screen options in cultists. To add a little more synergy, throw in the doom Sigil with the secrator

Put the screen up onto the objective, opponent charges them and kills a bunch netting you bonus attacks, then you charge the objective with 5 attacks a model.

[ChaosUndivided]

The Khorne mark is only +1 to attack if the unit charged that turn. It doesn't sound like something you want on Warriors unless you plan to bring some Khorne allies to buff them which currently might be a good idea but im skeptical it would survive a new Khorne book.

Khorne mark would probably work good on Chosen if they can charge something, delete it, and charge later but thats not entirely in your control. Also the Chosen can't get Daemonic Speed cuz they don't have mounts so no 3 d6 charges for them. I thought the Gaunt Summoner thing sounded interesting but if he gets nuked before summoning are they slain?

[Bayul]

10 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

I thought the Gaunt Summoner thing sounded interesting but if he gets nuked before summoning are they slain?

Yes, this should be executed in your first movement phase. If you lose him with units in your Silver Tower you'll be ruined.

[Rors]

Yep, that's why khorne warriors need screens. With some cultists infornt, you can aggressively push them forward. If they charge your screens you get to counter charge. If they don't I guess you just sit your screens on the objectives and wait to win the game, or keep pushing depending on battle/match up.

It's why I think one undivided sorc would be great in the list, both for his +1 hit/wound spell and to throw a sigil down, since you want them hitting your line and killing stuff.

Alternatively if you didn't want screens you need something durable that can pin units for you.  Nurgle knights could do that but it feels off theme.

An idolator general, khorne warriors, and fang screens sounds both thematic and power to me.

 

@ChaosUndivided

[Ravinsild]

I was considering a list rocking Darkoath Savagers and the Chieftan (because I already own him from Silver Tower and did paint him) and also the rest of the stuff I mentioned. I would probably not run anything else because I hate all the other cultists models and marauders. My “thing” is pure legions of full black plate mail all helmeted as one black legion marching forward. All chaos warrior style variants. I think for me that’s the coolest most iconic chaos army you can get.