AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Sonnenspeer]

We now have a 20-30" treat range for untamed Beasts round 1. How can we use this?

[Rors]

I think this FAQ potentially takes Idolators from being a dumpster fire to being an fairly good.

Untamed beasts become very capable of a turn 1 charge and may even cause some damage when buffed with auras and prayers. Nurgle iron gollems can sit on objectives with -1 to hit. The snake dudes can get exploding 6s for extra mortal wounds. Spire Tyrants can actually be a cost effective threat on the charge if buffed up.  Most importantly though, is it opens up a whole load of betallion options for them. Still not sure why there's no artifacts though...

 

[Ganigumo]

So I'm processing the Idolators changes, and am probably gonna try to make them work now, last time I tried listbuilding them it was suffering but I've still got a few things I'm not 100% on but I think might work. They still don't have artefacts yet but maybe they'll get it next time?

Idolators command traits specify "Idolator Priest general only" which means our warshrines can be our general and take command traits, but arent Heroes so they can't take artefacts or use command abilities despite having a leader role. Unfortunately this means the warshrine can't turn on marks (unless you become a hero when you have the leader role but I haven't seen that anywhere, so probably don't take a warshrine general so you don't miss out on the improved aura). Does anyone know if the command trait to pray two prayers a turn works on the warshrine? Does the  Rules around prayers are a bit strange at times

Cultists now have the mark of your Idolator lord. While they are still less killy than marauders, they've got some gas now, as they each have an upside that marauders don't. Note: Some of the cultist models are on 25mm bases, so in a bigger unit you can put all the 25mm ones in the front.

• Tzeentch or Undivided Iron golems have some good bulk for their cost, or even Nurgle if you ally in a Harbinger of Decay
• Splintered Fang gets mortals on 6s to hit, so a khorne or Slaanesh mark could up their damage significantly and you have easy access to rerolls through the warshrine or a khone idolator lord.
• Corvus Cabal rerolls charges by default, and can pass over terrain features when they move (not just normal move, so pile-ins and charges are fine)
• Untamed beasts get a super useful pregame move. We could put them into the battalion to get tons of cheap chaff with low drops to control the battlefield
• Spire Tyrants have some interesting bonuses, +1 to hit on the charge, and they get 12 damage 1 attacks and 1 damage 2 attack, still adds up to less than normal marauders in most circumstances at a glance, but they're cheaper.
• Unfortunately I don't see a big advantage to taking Unmade or Cypher lords yet, but I'm not very experienced with the army yet

Cultists having marks means they qualify for the 4 god specific battalions now. We can't use that extra artefact, but they'll help us with CP and keeping drops low. There may be some gas to running the nurgle battalion with a bunch of MSU untamed beasts, so the screens can bounce some mortals back while they die.

I'm going through my listbuilding process at the moment and I'll post the list when I'm finished for review. Haven't quite decided what I'm taking but I really like corvus cabal so I'll be bringing some amount of them.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Ganigumo

[JackStreicher]

Nvm, got it

Edited January 25, 2021 by JackStreicher

[Ganigumo]

Ok I've come up with a first draft of a list for Idolators. Khorne Marked, bringing in a Bloodsecrator and having Be'Lakor for magic support. I'm using Corvus cabal at the moment, but would probably be better served if I was using untamed beasts for the min sized units, and splintered fang for the big one. I've got a unit of 10 knights here, not sure if thats standard or if I should drop it down to 5 and bring a few more bodies.

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Idolators
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Idolator Lord on Chaos Chariot (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Fiery Orator
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
- Prayer: Blessings of Khorne
Chaos Lord (110)
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Artefact: Incandescent Rageblade
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Lord (110)
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Be'Lakor (240)
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Allies

Battleline
27 x Corvus Cabal (210)
9 x Corvus Cabal (70)
9 x Corvus Cabal (70)
10 x Chaos Knights (320)
- Cursed Lance
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Units
10 x Chaos Chosen (280)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Battalions
Bloodmarked Warband (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 120 / 400
Wounds: 141
 

[decker_cky]

2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

• Unfortunately I don't see a big advantage to taking Unmade or Cypher lords yet, but I'm not very experienced with the army yet

Cypher lords are bodies, and -1 to hit on a stick. They also have some shooting (though somehow, worse shooting than iron golems). I don't think they're particularly impressive, but I can see tossing them in when I have a spare slot in a battalion. 

Unmade are good though...no retreat is really good, and the structure of the unit is such that they don't lose combat ability until the very end. I think nurgle unmade are a very solid option (unlike splintered fang, they benefit from nurgle's bonus damage). 

[Smooth criminal]

Idolators already were arguably the strongest host. Now they are extremely good.

The marks even allow you to go 1 drop with cultists which was a big issue before.

[Smooth criminal]

6 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Unfortunately I don't see a big advantage to taking Unmade or Cypher lords yet, but I'm not very experienced with the army yet

Cypher lords - small screen units to grab objectives. Opponent either has to waste attacks on them or risk getting -1 hit.

Unmade - tarpit with no retreat. Also the big guys hit quite hard, basically like a chaos knight.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

19 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said:

Idolators already were arguably the strongest host. Now they are extremely good.

The marks even allow you to go 1 drop with cultists which was a big issue before.

How do you get one drop with them, if you don't mind me asking?

[decker_cky]

6 minutes ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

How do you get one drop with them, if you don't mind me asking?

Basically any of the marked hosts can be made 1-2 drops without much difficulty. 

[Perturbato]

But we can't take Gresh Iron Reapers battalion because of the mark can't we ?

[ibel]

7 minutes ago, Perturbato said:

But we can't take Gresh Iron Reapers battalion because of the mark can't we ?

We can. But that is noch 1 Drop. Max  a 2 Drop.

Here my 2 Cent for a Plaguetouched List with some Punh, I hope u guys like it:

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Idolators
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Archaon the Everchosen (800)
- Aura of Chaos: Nurgle
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- General
- Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Idolator Lord on Gorebeast Chariot (150)
- Artefact: Plate of Perfect Protection
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Prayer: Blessings of Nurgle

Battleline
24 x Iron Golems (210)
8 x Iron Golems (70)
20 x Splintered Fang (140)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Battalions
Plaguetouched Warband (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109

[Rors]

Iron golems in the nurgle betallion does seem really good. Using mask of darkness to chuck a blob on an objective seems very powerful. With a warshrine it's just really point efficient. 3+ reroll save and your opponent bounces damage back onto themselves... -1 to shoot if you put a hero near by. Your opponent will have to invest significantly more points into contesting the object than you do which gives you an advantage to contest the rest of the board. They'll loose hard to stuff like Sons of Behemat or anything that can claim the object off them though.

 

[ibel]

@Rors u could be Right. But I think it is a funny way to Play. SoB must be carefull for Archaon an his DSword. 

That musst be the Trick in the Army. Hammer and Anvil.

The Splintered Fang u could teleport and Attack with Reroll and Mortals Bounds Mortals back and when they die the Attack Again because of Archaon so....

there are Many hat`s with rabbits in it

[Rors]

I suspect splintered fang will work better in kornate betallions with blood secrators buffing them. In nurgle they loose the extra damage they would get on a 6, not the end of the world but it's anti-synergistic.

 

 

[ibel]

@Rors jes thats Right, u could be Right.

 

But I want a second Hammer without using Marauder`s (so boring) and with the better charge they get, the Mortals, the PlagueTW and the knockback Mortals and so on.... I like the Idea. Maybe i try it and u get a Feedback

[Boar]

23 hours ago, Rors said:

The snake dudes can get exploding 6s for extra mortal wounds

You get both effects once and at the same time. So 6 on Slaneeshi Splintered Fang would net you 1 MW (stops processing this attack) and one additional hit normally processed. So in effect Mark of Slaneesh changes their MW generation to be in addition rather than replacing attack sequence.

2 hours ago, ibel said:

SoB must be carefull for Archaon an his DSword. 

Huh, it's good but not that damaging, and, can rarely procs additional D6 MW on Megas (they cannot be slain outright).

[Blood0Tiger]

Looking for list advice, most of what I own is conversions or still shipping for months.  Wondering what I should consider getting in the future, I'd prefer to stay away from  marauders and the god factions if possible. I have a decent amount of  games and playtesting but this is not strictly competitive.  Any feedback will be appreciated. 

My list is pretty much focusing  on the ruinbringer battalion for the mw on charges, with the horsemen to poke and screen. While everything else outside the battalion grinding forward to objectives. Obviously this could be improved on and optimized with significantly more marauder horsemen and marauders instead of warriors. But personally I already have 2 other horde armies so its a bit much.  I couldn't decide on the command traits and the 2nd artifact on them, but Master of Deception seems necessary. 

What I currently own

- 25 chaos warriors

- 15 knights

- 2 chaos lords on foot

- 1 chaos lord on karkadrak

- 10 marauder horsemen

- 1 chaos sorcerer lord

- 5 chaos chosen. 

 

 

Ravagers 1990pt

- Chaos lord, Reaperblade & Steel, Nurgle, General 110pt

- Chaos lord, Reaperblade & Steel, Nurgle, 110pt

- Chaos Sorcerer Lord, Nurgle, Mask of Darkenss 110pt

- 15 Chaos Warriors, Weapon & Shield, Nurgle 270pt

- 10 Chaos Warriors, Weapon & Shield, Nurgle 180pt

- 5 Chaos Chosen, Nurgle 140pt

Ruinbringer Battalion 140pt

- Chaos Lord on Karkadrak, Khorne, Cloak of the Relentless Conqueror, Master of Deception 230pt

- 5 Chaos Knights, Lance, Khorne 160pt

- 5 Chaos Knights, Lance, Khorne 160pt

- 5 Chaos Knights, Ensorcelled Weapons, Khorne 160pt

- 5 Marauder Horsemen, Javelins, Khorne 110pt

- 5 Marauder Horsemen, Javelins, Khorne 110pt

[Ganigumo]

6 hours ago, Rors said:

Iron golems in the nurgle betallion does seem really good. Using mask of darkness to chuck a blob on an objective seems very powerful. With a warshrine it's just really point efficient. 3+ reroll save and your opponent bounces damage back onto themselves... -1 to shoot if you put a hero near by. Your opponent will have to invest significantly more points into contesting the object than you do which gives you an advantage to contest the rest of the board. They'll loose hard to stuff like Sons of Behemat or anything that can claim the object off them though.

 

Agreed. Nurgle Iron golems are insane. Warshrine for +1 to save, base rerolls (or a nearby chaos sorcerer if you want to move them). These guys get to a 3+ rerollable/6++ (or 5++ if you bring a harbinger of decay...) Thats as tough as  petrifex was and they're dirt cheap at 7 points a wound. If you wanted to get really spicy you could bring in Glottkin for his +1 wound spell, and +1 attack CA...

[Boar]

3 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

or a nearby chaos sorcerer if you want to move them

They only lose re-roll in turn (not battle round) they made normal move. So usually they only will be without re-rolls in turn they charge, and since charging gives choice you can always try to minimize potential retaliation somewhat.

[ibel]

hej, u Right guys.

 

Mhmm but i think this Change (the only really Change in FAQ for this time) was very good and so there are many more cool Armys we can create.

@Blood0Tiger i would Change the 10 Warrior an the 15 to 5 and 20. 

Change Maybe 1 Chaoslord for One additional Chaos Sorcerer Lord thats better. 

In my Opinion if u whant to go Runbringers, take as much Knight, Gorebeast and Chaos Chariots (ist very simpel Buy 1 Broken Realm Set, and use Magnetiks to Change the GoreBeast or the Horses infront so u have every Option everytime u want )

[Rors]

Doing some quick napkin math, for 210 points of khorne scions of flame + a blood secrator, you have an an 8 inch bubble the puts out an average 37 wounds in the shooting phase if you bless them with a near by idolator Lord. Seeing as you'd basically always take the blood secrator and you have to take the Idolator Lord, that's a surprisingly high output for the points. Sitting behind another unit and a kind of reverse screen, could have some merit. Iron golems would also get an extra attack on their ranged weapon. If thrown together the numbers could actually be substantial, which isn't something I thought cultists would ever achieve.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Rors
correction

[ibel]

did the blood Secrator only buff the Melee Attack ?! Did he or not ?!

But jes thems so that a Blood Sec is a Auto-Include for IdolatorKhorneArmys (i didn't like Khorne so i did not think often on this posibilitys)

[Rors]

It's just a straight +1 attack, so all the cultists with multiple weapon profiles get to double dip. On most of them the attacks are too ****** to matter but scions wound on 3s and get doubles on 6 to hit so it's a great profile to buff.

[Boar]

2 hours ago, Rors said:

Doing some quick napkin math, for 210 points of khorne scions of flame + a blood secrator, you have an an 8 inch bubble the puts out an average 37 wounds in the shooting phase if you bless them with a near by idolator Lord. Seeing as you'd basically always take the blood secrator and you have to take the Idolator Lord, that's a surprisingly high output for the points. Sitting behind another unit and a kind of reverse screen, could have some merit. Iron golems would also get an extra attack on their ranged weapon. If thrown together the numbers could actually be substantial, which isn't something I thought cultists would ever achieve.

Bloodsecrator is in fact melee only, as is Idolators Lord prayer. Warshrines Blessing of Chaos and Chaos Sorcerer Lord Demonic Power however are not limited to only melee.