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Gareth 🍄

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Any suffered wounds in excess of the models wounds profile are wasted. You can't just chop of the last little bit of the rule absent all context. In the case of successful regeneration saves, wounds are not suffered, so the whole "any excess wounds are wasted" part is not triggered.

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Had a game vs Tomb Kings.

 

Edit:

- We played 2 rules wrong: Remains in play spells being un-dispellable (my opponent was really sure and I couldn’t find the rule)

- Tomb Scorpions initiative checks

Edited out the rant, it was unjustly, the lady forbids!

Spoiler

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Edited by JackStreicher
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10 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Had a game vs Tomb Kings.

 

Edit:

- We played 2 rules wrong: Remains in play spells being un-dispellable (my opponent was really sure and I couldn’t find the rule)

- Tomb Scorpions initiative checks

The following is a slightly funny rant

/Rant start

Tbh TK need a points decrease, everything doesn’t pay for its special rules, it would just be consequential.

Turn two: 5 skirmishers shot my lv1 mage because he always hits with 70% of his 5+ shots (not kidding EVERYTIME) ;/

Hitting on 5s is just bad. Look at all those other humans hitting on 6s or 7s after moving and being out of range and possibly having to shoot into cover. Paying more points for always hitting on 5s wouldn’t make any sense then.

The game was a draw (990:960 for me) and was fun in the last two turns. My peasants did nothing. That, 7 point upgrade for the Tomb Scorpion ability (when it comes out of the sand a unit has to make an initiative check) killed 15/20. Generally wiping 50% of an Initiative 3 unit on average is too weak and doesn’t befit the noble tomb kings. Additionally 7 points are outrageously much for that ability, I mean it should reduce the points and be triggerable every movement phase, otherwise it’s unplayable? Those 82 TS points don’t pay for themselves, you know.

The other peasant unit was charged, failed terror and ran off the board. The altar debuffed my entire army for the whole game because -1 to hit within 18“ is fine. Without this buff TK would not stand a chance even vs the empire, they desperately need it. The range should be 36“ and it should be an autocast. 🙃

My duke killed some chaff and the Ushabti. My other hero (Baron) killed a giant, the Pegasus knights  crumbled a tomb scorpion, then the Baron, equipped to kill monsters, failed to hit the Sphinx for two turns and was finally beheaded by the Sphinx costing 30% less than the baron and doing 50% more, justified! When rolling a street on its attacks the Sphinx should draw the Exodia and win the game! Killing Blowing the Game, s*ckers! That‘d just be fair for the absurd premium of 195pts. The points are almost fine for a healable, super tough, flying, trampling murder-statue. I‘d argue it should go down to 80 points like it‘s clack-a-di-clack brother in snappy-ness the Tomb Scorpion.
On a different note: Hey, -1 to hit within a 36“ diameter is worthless, right!?

Sphinx was healed constantly (it lost about 12 wounds which were healed, 2 wounds of healing per mage, thx mortuary cult). It’s fine to have a metric ton of rules while not paying for them :). The Tomb Kings Propably had already paid for them special rules back when they were alive. That’s what I call planning ahead! We should get investment tips from them!

It‘s also important that tough units can’t die - ultimately we‘re no noobs here, right!?

My whole army did nothing except for 6 models. The rest of my force saw the enemy and decided they were outclassed, resulting in achieving nothing. Why would they? it’s just super expensive knights who despite their size skipped gym day, every day, that’s why having S4 and more than one attack is not an option. Also it’s about the quality of attacks, not the quantity, right? That‘s why they went for low attacks with  mediocre quality.
So my two heroes did something and one time my pegasi did something after being reduced to 1 by that underpowered and useless Scorpion (ofc snapping claws are the pinnacle of murder, that’s why killing blow of both kinds is justified. Why would a 6 meter club have killing blow, it can‘t click-a-di-click snap right? A magical weapon granting monstrous killing blow costs 50+ points, so it’s just fair the scorpion costs 75 points, I mean, who pays for special rules these days, right?). And why should three elite knights costing 55+ points each have an easy time with the scorpion, he has Chitin Claws Coral, Chitin Claws!!517C1D93-2DF1-441B-B685-7B6A16D5B169.jpeg.274fb6443631ed2cec083aefceaa631a.jpeg

The baron failed heroically (fOr zE LaEdyY - not hitting, for the lady?). In the last turn the duke slew the Sphinx (ogre blade to the face almost didn’t kill her, because he has no click-a-di-click snapping chitin claw at the tip of his blade!). The turn before he missed all but one attack (yup, -1 to hit aura is fine, adding an additional save of 6+ is just fair) failed to finish the ushabti and in turn couldn’t charge his Hierophant in my turn. His Flying carpet hierophant then stylishly flew away, humming a song of a certain Disney movie, out of range forever, behind his block of 28 Skeletons

(which my whole army would’ve had issues to kill because cracking a whip apparently makes skeletons very hateful and, just to do the cracki-di-crack justice it also doubles their attacks - don’t tell the empire that that’s how you boost your troops or they’ll get ideas!)

 

I am not angry, just sad. There’s too much nonsense going on with that army. The best I can do is a draw and that already takes all my strength. It’s not an uphill battle it’s trying to build 20 dire wolves wearing mittens, not using the manual.

/rant end

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Sounds a bit grim!Haven't played in an age but can you take out his Altar with one of your flying units/characters/trebuchet? Also I've found when my army is outclassed by my opponents army Ive had to lean in on the more nastier/destructive elements. I don't know Brets but are there other units that hit hard? Like Grail Knights or Questing Knights? Lord on a griffon?

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27 minutes ago, silverstu said:

Sounds a bit grim!Haven't played in an age but can you take out his Altar with one of your flying units/characters/trebuchet? Also I've found when my army is outclassed by my opponents army Ive had to lean in on the more nastier/destructive elements. I don't know Brets but are there other units that hit hard? Like Grail Knights or Questing Knights? Lord on a griffon?

My Pegasus Knight(s) (only one survived) bound it in combat for 4 turns but couldn't kill it (healing, just too much healing everywhere).

The One-Punch-Duke is ace! He pretty much carried my entire game.. That's as nasty as I can get. (I could also add another cannon, but that's entering the powergaming territory which I don't like) ^^

I'd won the game if we didn't play "remains in play" spells as we did. :/ (the -1 to hit and 6+ ward would've been banned starting turn 2 or 3 which would have allowed me to slaughter all his mages and monsters with my heroes)


Imo Grail Knights aren't good. One wound, two attacks. They don't do that much, die quickly and cost a lot of real money.
Knights In general are super swingy due to their low volume of attacks.

 

Well I still like my Brets, I'll test Exiles/Crusaders soonish to see if they can pack a punch worthxy of Bretonnia!

 

 

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I ordered my Bretonian box about a week and a half ago, and it will come together with the Dawnbringers 5 Book and other things from that preorders slot, so there's at least another week or two until I get them, but as I am planning to sell everything from the box apart from the new sculpt I thought that maybe someone from here could be interested in the big book. If I remember correctly there were comments about users looking for the book but not managing to get it.

This would be preferable if it is from the EU to make the shipment easier, but drop me a line if this could help you. Otherwise I will sell it on a Spanish second-hand site as usual.

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Tomb Kings certainly seem to have some potentially very powerful options. The Old World Fanatics podcast was discussing the possibility of running a Bone Dragon and a huge block of Tomb Guard or Skeletons with a bunch of characters in it. Basically have your scary killing unit in the dragon, then have all your remaining points in a single huge block that the enemy just won't be able to kill. Your opponent won't be able to score points, so as long as your dragon can do something you'll win on points.

It's obviously an NPE list, but it highlights how Tomb Kings have potential for some really nasty combos, even if you don't run something as skewed.

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Hopefully we get a nice little point balance in the not so distant future! Some units could definitely use a readjustment. I know its hard to balance such a huge game, but dealing with the most outrageous cases is already a good step forward. 

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3 hours ago, Mordeus said:

Hopefully we get a nice little point balance in the not so distant future! Some units could definitely use a readjustment. I know its hard to balance such a huge game, but dealing with the most outrageous cases is already a good step forward. 

Agreed! Just have a look at the Necrotect's rules and tell me how that hero, handing out one of the best double-buffs of the whole game can be that cheap.

also a max-size for most units. (Only zombies have that iirc)

Edited by JackStreicher
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19 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Had a game vs Tomb Kings.

 

Edit:

- We played 2 rules wrong: Remains in play spells being un-dispellable (my opponent was really sure and I couldn’t find the rule)

- Tomb Scorpions initiative checks

The following is a slightly funny rant

/Rant start

Tbh TK need a points decrease, everything doesn’t pay for its special rules, it would just be consequential.

Turn two: 5 skirmishers shot my lv1 mage because he always hits with 70% of his 5+ shots (not kidding EVERYTIME) ;/

Hitting on 5s is just bad. Look at all those other humans hitting on 6s or 7s after moving and being out of range and possibly having to shoot into cover. Paying more points for always hitting on 5s wouldn’t make any sense then.

The game was a draw (990:960 for me) and was fun in the last two turns. My peasants did nothing. That, 7 point upgrade for the Tomb Scorpion ability (when it comes out of the sand a unit has to make an initiative check) killed 15/20. Generally wiping 50% of an Initiative 3 unit on average is too weak and doesn’t befit the noble tomb kings. Additionally 7 points are outrageously much for that ability, I mean it should reduce the points and be triggerable every movement phase, otherwise it’s unplayable? Those 82 TS points don’t pay for themselves, you know.

The other peasant unit was charged, failed terror and ran off the board. The altar debuffed my entire army for the whole game because -1 to hit within 18“ is fine. Without this buff TK would not stand a chance even vs the empire, they desperately need it. The range should be 36“ and it should be an autocast. 🙃

My duke killed some chaff and the Ushabti. My other hero (Baron) killed a giant, the Pegasus knights  crumbled a tomb scorpion, then the Baron, equipped to kill monsters, failed to hit the Sphinx for two turns and was finally beheaded by the Sphinx costing 30% less than the baron and doing 50% more, justified! When rolling a street on its attacks the Sphinx should draw the Exodia and win the game! Killing Blowing the Game, s*ckers! That‘d just be fair for the absurd premium of 195pts. The points are almost fine for a healable, super tough, flying, trampling murder-statue. I‘d argue it should go down to 80 points like it‘s clack-a-di-clack brother in snappy-ness the Tomb Scorpion.
On a different note: Hey, -1 to hit within a 36“ diameter is worthless, right!?

Sphinx was healed constantly (it lost about 12 wounds which were healed, 2 wounds of healing per mage, thx mortuary cult). It’s fine to have a metric ton of rules while not paying for them :). The Tomb Kings Propably had already paid for them special rules back when they were alive. That’s what I call planning ahead! We should get investment tips from them!

It‘s also important that tough units can’t die - ultimately we‘re no noobs here, right!?

My whole army did nothing except for 6 models. The rest of my force saw the enemy and decided they were outclassed, resulting in achieving nothing. Why would they? it’s just super expensive knights who despite their size skipped gym day, every day, that’s why having S4 and more than one attack is not an option. Also it’s about the quality of attacks, not the quantity, right? That‘s why they went for low attacks with  mediocre quality.
So my two heroes did something and one time my pegasi did something after being reduced to 1 by that underpowered and useless Scorpion (ofc snapping claws are the pinnacle of murder, that’s why killing blow of both kinds is justified. Why would a 6 meter club have killing blow, it can‘t click-a-di-click snap right? A magical weapon granting monstrous killing blow costs 50+ points, so it’s just fair the scorpion costs 75 points, I mean, who pays for special rules these days, right?). And why should three elite knights costing 55+ points each have an easy time with the scorpion, he has Chitin Claws Coral, Chitin Claws!!517C1D93-2DF1-441B-B685-7B6A16D5B169.jpeg.274fb6443631ed2cec083aefceaa631a.jpeg

The baron failed heroically (fOr zE LaEdyY - not hitting, for the lady?). In the last turn the duke slew the Sphinx (ogre blade to the face almost didn’t kill her, because he has no click-a-di-click snapping chitin claw at the tip of his blade!). The turn before he missed all but one attack (yup, -1 to hit aura is fine, adding an additional save of 6+ is just fair) failed to finish the ushabti and in turn couldn’t charge his Hierophant in my turn. His Flying carpet hierophant then stylishly flew away, humming a song of a certain Disney movie, out of range forever, behind his block of 28 Skeletons

(which my whole army would’ve had issues to kill because cracking a whip apparently makes skeletons very hateful and, just to do the cracki-di-crack justice it also doubles their attacks - don’t tell the empire that that’s how you boost your troops or they’ll get ideas!)

 

I am not angry, just sad. There’s too much nonsense going on with that army. The best I can do is a draw and that already takes all my strength. It’s not an uphill battle it’s trying to build 20 dire wolves wearing mittens, not using the manual.

/rant end

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That's a lot of bitterness right there. I don't know what kind of list you played against, but I got absolutely wrecked by my regular opponent's Brets in the first game with TK I played recently (after winning against him consistently with dwarfs).

From my experience so far (both practical and theoretical), TK are nowhere near as oppressive as some armies out there (bar the dragon, which you didn't face). 

Sure, they may have the tools to kinda (emphasis on kinda) deal with most stuff out there (as opposed to relatively one-trick-pony (no pun intended) Brets), but most of that stuff is tame and/or has real vulnerabilities/downsides.

It may be a combo of bad dice rolls (or your opponent's good ones) and bad deployment?

Edit: I don't know what lists were being used, but it sounds like your opponent was more competitively oriented than you are (in list building and actual gameplay) on top of luck.

Edited by KingKull
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1 hour ago, KingKull said:

Edit: I don't know what lists were being used, but it sounds like your opponent was more competitively oriented than you are (in list building and actual gameplay) on top of luck.

Nope, we simply played rules wrong which warped the game + insane rolls (he always rolls absurdly) combined with some super undercosted units which are bonkers (it’s not fun to have 3+ mortal wound and monster slayer threats every game, but that’s the models he has and they’re too Point efficient to ditch them)

His rolls, you don’t know the half of it. It’s a constant thing and it’s not his dice.

 

lists, khemri - Mortuary Cult:

lv 4 Hierophant with flying carpet

2x Mages lv 1, one mounted

1x Mage lv 1 with the Battle Standard (illusion)

1x Necrotect

30+ skeletons (bsb and Necrotect in there)

1x casket of souls

6x Ushabti with bows

2x Tomb Scorpions

1x Necrosphinx

 

my list:

1x Ogre Blade rage duke on pegasus

1x Baron with monster slaying on pegasus

1x lv4 illusion Prophetess

1x lv1 battle magic damsel

2x 20 Men-at-arms

2x 6 Knights of the realm

1x Pegasus knights

1x Ally dwarf cannon (I don’t own a trebuchet)

1x Witch hunter

2x5 squires

Edited by JackStreicher
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42 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Nope, we simply played rules wrong which warped the game + insane rolls (he always rolls absurdly) combined with some super undercosted units which are bonkers (it’s not fun to have 3+ mortal wound and monster slayer threats every game, but that’s the models he has and they’re too Point efficient to ditch them)

His rolls, you don’t know the half of it. It’s a constant thing and it’s not his dice.

I don't think anything in TK is undercosted (scorps are good, but not fanatic level tbh), but yeah, some people are just born lucky. Could you share the lists used on both sides?

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10 minutes ago, KingKull said:

I don't think anything in TK is undercosted (scorps are good, but not fanatic level tbh), but yeah, some people are just born lucky. Could you share the lists used on both sides?

Updated the post. :) I usually play a mix of narrative, looking good on the table and efficiency. :)

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3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Updated the post. :) I usually play a mix of narrative, looking good on the table and efficiency. :)

I actually played a list very similar to your opponent's in the game where the Brets absolutely wrecked me (game was 1500 though, and my Ushabti didn't have bows).

For Brets, I think that two lances is far too little to be able to pressure the opponent in any meaningful way, and 3-man darts of GK are too good not to be taken. 

Btw I get what you're saying about list building, as I too refuse to play armies that don't look like, well, armies (which is why I was put off Sigmar for a long while btw), but yours definitely has room for improvement, possibly even within said parameters.

But yeah, I'd definitely say his list was a lot more optimized than yours. Add those spicy rolls and gak mission deployment to the mix, and I can see why it could've felt frustrating.

Edited by KingKull
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2 hours ago, KingKull said:

I actually played a list very similar to your opponent's in the game where the Brets absolutely wrecked me (game was 1500 though, and my Ushabti didn't have bows).

For Brets, I think that two lances is far too little to be able to pressure the opponent in any meaningful way, and 3-man darts of GK are too good not to be taken. 

Btw I get what you're saying about list building, as I too refuse to play armies that look like, well, armies (which is why I was put off Sigmar for a long while btw), but yours definitely has room for improvement, possibly even within said parameters.

But yeah, I'd definitely say his list was a lot more optimized than yours. Add those spicy rolls and gak mission deployment to the mix, and I can see why it could've felt frustrating.

Thx for the input! :)

I might ditch the baron and add two more lances for a start. The witch hunter has to go sadly (those are so cool!)

 

rules question: Can a Prophetess use her ability ‚Shield of the Lady‘ when she‘s part of a men-at-arms unit that has one model with a chivalrous vow joined to it?

Edited by JackStreicher
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2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Thx for the input! :)

I might ditch the baron and add two more lances for a start. The witch hunter has to go sadly (those are so cool!)

 

rules question: Can a Prophetess use her ability ‚Shield of the Lady‘ when she‘s part of a men-at-arms unit that has one model with a chivalrous vow joined to it?

Thank you for not minding it! (My closest wargaming friend is allergic to outside advice so I'm always wary when giving it haha!)

As I understand the Shield of the Lady ability, the unit itself needs to have a knightly vow (that's how it's worded, at least).

As for your list, I'd consider ditching the lvl 1 (not worth it imo, especially when facing lvl 3-4s) and the cannon unless it's a heart choice you're willingly taking (same with the treb). The only use I see for warmachines now is making the enemy want to come to you (and even then only in the absence of other tools that do it better), which isn't a problem for Brets given their speed.

For the duke, I personally would never leave home without Sirenne's locket so that things like dying at the hands of a Sphinx's killing blow just don't happen, also possibly Gromril great helm. If you're taking the Virtue of Knightly temper, I'd also ditch the ogre blade and just go for the lance (or perhaps sword of heroes if you're dead set on monster hunting).

Did the squires prove to be useful in any way? I still haven't tried playing with them.

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8 hours ago, KingKull said:

Sphinx's killing blow

The locket doesn’t work vs killing blow :/ you‘d need the anointed armour for that. It’s kind of weird that the game has barely any killing blow defense while killing blow is more prevalent than multiple wounds.

 

8 hours ago, KingKull said:

Did the squires prove to be useful in any way? I still haven't tried playing with them.

Sadly no, the Scenario we rolled for made them utterly useless (diagonal deployment, 12“ from the enemy with units being forced into reserve)

8 hours ago, KingKull said:

I'd also ditch the ogre blade and just go for the lance

I have considered that, yet the blade makes him a monster killer which doesn’t rely on rolling 6s 🤔 (I can’t roll a 6 on the wound roll apparently xD)

8 hours ago, KingKull said:

Thank you for not minding it! (My closest wargaming friend is allergic to outside advice so I'm always wary when giving it haha!)

Why would I? It was constructive feedback!

I use the cannons to threaten his monsters even more or to snipe a badly placed character :) (technically you can let it bounce into combat as well, which is nice)

 

I worked on another list (which falls apart when I fail a single terror check xD)

 

Army plan: The big block won’t flee, ever. It has 2x stubborn, a lady that can deal 2D6 S5 rend 1 attacks via assailment spell, and a bsb. The unit has LD 10 due to the Sergeant + Horde.

My smash Duke is back (I‘ve to check if the anointed armour can be taken, it might be a bug in the list builder).

Lots of Knights

And a cannon to pressure my opponent. :) (the cannon could be switched for something else, I don’t have any more knight models though xD)

kingdom-of-bretonnia.txt

Edited by JackStreicher
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That's a big blob of peasants!! 

I like the list, the only thing I would be tempted to do is drop the foot knights and use the points to bolster the knight units (I know you don't have the models but maybe something for the future). 

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7 hours ago, Ogregut said:

That's a big blob of peasants!! 

I like the list, the only thing I would be tempted to do is drop the foot knights and use the points to bolster the knight units (I know you don't have the models but maybe something for the future). 

Is there any way to make those peasants inmune to psychology? (Spells?)

btw:

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nice models!

Edited by JackStreicher
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7 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Is there any way to make those peasants inmune to psychology? (Spells?)

btw:

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nice models!

I think the only spell that would do it is Battle Lust from dark magic which gives you frenzy and hatred. 

Can't wait to get my foot knights so I can assemble my brets and do some kit bashing. 

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On 3/14/2024 at 8:17 AM, JackStreicher said:

The locket doesn’t work vs killing blow :/ you‘d need the anointed armour for that. It’s kind of weird that the game has barely any killing blow defense while killing blow is more prevalent than multiple wounds.

 

Sadly no, the Scenario we rolled for made them utterly useless (diagonal deployment, 12“ from the enemy with units being forced into reserve)

I have considered that, yet the blade makes him a monster killer which doesn’t rely on rolling 6s 🤔 (I can’t roll a 6 on the wound roll apparently xD)

Why would I? It was constructive feedback!

I use the cannons to threaten his monsters even more or to snipe a badly placed character :) (technically you can let it bounce into combat as well, which is nice)

 

I worked on another list (which falls apart when I fail a single terror check xD)

 

Army plan: The big block won’t flee, ever. It has 2x stubborn, a lady that can deal 2D6 S5 rend 1 attacks via assailment spell, and a bsb. The unit has LD 10 due to the Sergeant + Horde.

My smash Duke is back (I‘ve to check if the anointed armour can be taken, it might be a bug in the list builder).

Lots of Knights

And a cannon to pressure my opponent. :) (the cannon could be switched for something else, I don’t have any more knight models though xD)

kingdom-of-bretonnia.txt 1.6 kB · 3 downloads

Just curious, how has the cannon fared in your games? I fielded 0 of them (or other warmachines) in my half a dozen or so games with dwarfs, and I'm wondering if I'm missing anything (although it doesn't feel like I am).

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16 minutes ago, KingKull said:

Just curious, how has the cannon fared in your games? I fielded 0 of them (or other warmachines) in my half a dozen or so games with dwarfs, and I'm wondering if I'm missing anything (although it doesn't feel like I am).

Mixed results. It’ve killed a dragon, a sphinx, a hero, chariots. It was pretty solid. Last game it did nothing ^^

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And another game VS Orcs!

short summary:

we tried to move as strategically as possible, his Arachnarok failed her charge twice (by 0.5-1 inches). She tried to engage the Foot knights.

My cannon malfunctioned which resulted in self destruct. My sorceress kept the „The lady commands YOU SHALL NOT CHARGE“ constantly applied to the black orcs, she also used the crystal column at the beginning.

The fanatics broke through the Duke, the arachnarok and the foot knights. They neither wounded the duke nor the Arachnarok but wounded the foot knights 12 times.

The Lady‘s grace granted me 8 5+ wards and they fought another day!

When the Arachnarok fled (losing by 3), I didn’t catch her. In his turn he failed to rally her and He gave up. Yet we continued acting like she had rallied.

His giant killed the Questing Knights requiring two turns to do so though! (They only did 2 damage, despite the charge)

A turn later the game was over: his right flank mostly fell. His black orcs were utterly slaughtered by the block of peasants and a flank charge of the knights.

 

The game was fun but was diminished by his rolls. He rolled horribly. Always 10+ for LD (twice due to the bsb) hit rally badly and couldn’t get spells through or ban them.

The sorceress was ace with a magic weapon and spectral doppelgänger (she killed around 12 Black Orcs just by herself across 2 turns of combat)

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Edited by JackStreicher
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