AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

[mmimzie]

14 minutes ago, stratigo said:

And probably wrong to boot. 
 

cities of Sigmar is a soup army though. Like legions and like orruks (except more so)

 

9 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Depends what you mean with good.

for example I am the best khorne (mono) player in my whole country.😂

Buuuuut, next to being the best Khorne mono player in my area, I am also the only one who plays khorne daemons and mortals In my country😅😅.

Edit: anyways back to Hallowheart, city of sigmar discussion)

 

This isn't the thread for this. If you want you can go see if that double turn thread and general is still up and unlocked.  Otherwise hollow heart. 

[SwampHeart]

27 minutes ago, stratigo said:

And probably wrong to boot. 
 

cities of Sigmar is a soup army though. Like legions and like orruks (except more so)

Incorrect - there is no soup in AoS. Being able to select multiple types of models =/= soup. Soup = getting access to more than one set pf unique army (allegiance) abilities, something that occurs in 40k (and is awful) and not in AoS. I'd highly suggest DakkaDakka or Bolter and Chainsword if you enjoy 40k, this is an AoS forum where people who enjoy AoS discuss it. They don't come here to be talked down to about the balance of the game compared to 40k. I stopped playing 40k because of the attitude that a certain player base has and I certainly have no interest in being exposed to that attitude in an AoS forum.

Back to Hallowheart - I really think people need to get past the need to take 6 wizards in the Whitefire Council. It is a full blown trap that prevents you from being able to buy enough bodies to win games. Realistically 4 Wizards is enough in a council to get all the output you need and still leaves you with enough points to put a big unit of PG on the board. 

[Chumphammer]

Redesigned my list.

I wanted something that can:

1: Move forward and be a threat/pack a punch
2: High amount magic support
3: some decent shooting in support

I also dont want to by more models really, so using what I have with my high elves

Anointed: General
Veteran of the blazing crusade 

Battlemage (Ghur - Wildform)
Warding Brand, Ignite Weapons

Battlemage (Aqushy - Fireball)
Sear Wounds, Elemental Cyclon, Ignax's Scales 

Sorceress: Adjutant
Sear Wounds, Roaming wildfire (2nd sear wounds in case I lose the battlemage)

30 Phoenix Guard

10 Phoenix Guard: Retinue

20 Darkshards
*full command*

Gotrek Gunnisson

10 Shadow Warriors

10 Shadow Warriors

Purple Sun of Shyish

Emerald Lifeswarm


So 30 PG in front with a hole for Gotrek to run through

Annointed behind with the mages

10 PG behind their body guards

Darkshards next to or behind them (close enough for sorceress to use her ability) I know we have access to better shooting, but needed more core and 200pts for 40 3+/4+ isnt bad since the PG will be holding them up while arrows rain down. They are good to help clear the way for PG Gotrek.  Also cheap kills for sorceress 

Life swarm/Sear wounds to keep Gotrek/PG alive (and the battle mage taking the wounds to increase casting. Hopefully scales mitigates that)

Purple sun for close range killing big things

Shadow warriors for capping  obj or taking our weak solo characters
 

[mmimzie]

5 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

really think people need to get past the need to take 6 wizards in the Whitefire Council. It is a full blown trap that prevents you from being able to buy enough bodies to win games. Realistically 4 Wizards is enough in a council to get all the output you need and still leaves you with enough points to put a big unit of PG on the board.

I think i agree, but disagree that you need the pg unit. 

 

Certainly 4 wizards is about all you need to really get good milage out of what hollowheart brings you. 

 

I just think PG are a weird way to combat overwhelming aggression, while not answering models who can attack first. 

 

Edit: i suppose i should say pg can work with its own pros and con, but I'd prefer to have smaller chaffe units to abosorb a dangerous threat. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by mmimzie

[SwampHeart]

14 hours ago, mmimzie said:

I think i agree, but disagree that you need the pg unit. 

 

I use PG here illustratively - I personally rate PG because my list needs a tarpit but I'm more pointing out that you need to keep the points open to run bodies of some sort. 

My issue with the small chaff walls is that - in my experience - there are too many second combat activations out there that can eat through multiple small chaff in a turn. I prefer the value you get out of Pha's'd Phoenix Guard with Warding Brand on them. I've yet to get hit by a unit that actually tangles well with them. That said there is always going to be meta differences that impact how and what you select. Both options maintain the same goal which is creating space for your wizards to get work done and to allow your smaller fast moving units to get outside and score/create pressure. 

[Duke of Gisoreux]

20 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Anointed: General
Veteran of the blazing crusade 

I really like your list, but what's the purpose of the command trait? Seems like a waste as Phoenix Guard is already immune to battleshock with an Anointed nearby. The trait would only increase the range and provide battleshock for the Darkshards.

Edit: I just recognized you didn't include the Whitefire Retinue Battalion. Don't you think it's worth it?

Edited October 16, 2019 by Duke of Gisoreux

[Chumphammer]

1 hour ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

I really like your list, but what's the purpose of the command trait? Seems like a waste as Phoenix Guard is already immune to battleshock with an Anointed nearby. The trait would only increase the range and provide battleshock for the Darkshards.

Edit: I just recognized you didn't include the Whitefire Retinue Battalion. Don't you think it's worth it?

Thanks

1: Main reason was the wholly within 12, and this can limit how far I push up away from my character line. 18" gives me a lot more range with added security. I have seen soooo many people ****** themselves over when its "wholly within 12" it makes me paranoid lol. Open to suggestions on other abilities 

2: I think its alright, but I dont know if its really needed. my sorceress is already going to be on +2 due to stabbing darkshards. I am also getting + to cast from Arcane channeling. So vs most armies I should be fine with what I have, and I dont really need the item as Gotrek/PG doing most the work.

I thought about COGS, but I just dont feel I need it for the 80pts when I can already get +2 run/charge on just Gotrek. I have played Gotrek in 4 games now and hes always gotten into combat Turn 2. He is just such a target that soaks up so much fire and attention and can take anything my PG cant deal with (especially with Purple sun already hitting them things) I also dont want my opponent getting the buff from it also 



 

[Duke of Gisoreux]

How do you think it would work if you had a Runelord as your Hallowheart general and would give him the Famed Spell-hunter command trait?

Runelord warscroll:

Quote

This model can attempt to dispel 1 endless spell in your hero phase and attempt to unbind 1 spell in the enemy hero phase. Add 2 to dispelling and unbinding rolls for this model.

Famed Spell-hunter trait:

Quote

If this general is a WIZARD, add 3 to the roll when this general attempts to dispel an endless spell. If this general is not a WIZARD, they can attempt to dispel 1 endless spell in your hero phase.

As the Runelord is not a WIZARD, the second part of the Famed Spell-hunter rule would apply. But what does it mean? Would both abilities add up so the Runelord would be able to dispel two Endless Spells in each hero phase adding 2 to each roll?

 

[Chumphammer]

I think it would stack, so you would get +2 for dispel and +5 for unbinding 

But means you also have a runelord as general so stuck with basic core units and anything he unlocks. I use anointed to unlock the PG

[Bigscaryflorister]

So After a few games, I’ve come up with this idea. Thoughts? 

Nomad prince - 18”battleshock immune

azyr battlemage -1hit vs missile artefact

hysh battlemage 

lord arcanum adjutant 

lord exorcist ignaxs scales

2x 5 SotT

2x3 scourgerunners

30 eternal guard 

10 shadow warriors

everblaze comet

portals

shackles

 Pallisade

Balewind

whitefire battalion

exorcist dude spamming CA, and then low value spells, mystic etc.

arcanum getting prime electrids d6 likely, and -1 hit spell, and using cycle of the storm if the exorcist does actually kill himself haha

azyr spamming wildfire, lightning and cyclone atop his balewind, 

chariots being chariots, and road blocks

SotT cheap Battleline casters 😁 

eternal guard getting buffed by sisters, 2+rr1 saves, 2 chances at mw back 

Got options first turn and second, 6 drops 

 

[mmimzie]

12 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

I use PG here illustratively - I personally rate PG because my list needs a tarpit but I'm more pointing out that you need to keep the points open to run bodies of some sort. 

My issue with the small chaff walls is that - in my experience - there are too many second combat activations out there that can eat through multiple small chaff in a turn. I prefer the value you get out of Pha's'd Phoenix Guard with Warding Brand on them. I've yet to get hit by a unit that actually tangles well with them. That said there is always going to be meta differences that impact how and what you select. Both options maintain the same goal which is creating space for your wizards to get work done and to allow your smaller fast moving units to get outside and score/create pressure. 

i can get behind that one for sure. 
 

Yeah the PG can be super durable, and are tough enough to take a charge and then punch back abit on a keeper of secret or other spooky units similar to how fireslayer units can. That said i still like stuff like the dark shards as they give me the option of being assertive and get damage in before my turn, but still can be enough to hold the line for at least a turn. 

 

8 hours ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

As the Runelord is not a WIZARD, the second part of the Famed Spell-hunter rule would apply. But what does it mean? Would both abilities add up so the Runelord would be able to dispel two Endless Spells in each hero phase adding 2 to each roll?

 

 

6 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

I think it would stack, so you would get +2 for dispel and +5 for unbinding 

But means you also have a runelord as general so stuck with basic core units and anything he unlocks. I use anointed to unlock the PG

The rule is pretty clearly worded that a runelord would not get bonuses to unbinding a endless spell. It's not so clear on if it would give them one more attempt, but i'd doubt that as well.

[Raffonerd]

10 hours ago, Bigscaryflorister said:

So After a few games, I’ve come up with this idea. Thoughts? 

Nomad prince - 18”battleshock immune

azyr battlemage -1hit vs missile artefact

hysh battlemage 

lord arcanum adjutant 

lord exorcist ignaxs scales

2x 5 SotT

2x3 scourgerunners

30 eternal guard 

10 shadow warriors

everblaze comet

portals

shackles

 Pallisade

Balewind

whitefire battalion

exorcist dude spamming CA, and then low value spells, mystic etc.

arcanum getting prime electrids d6 likely, and -1 hit spell, and using cycle of the storm if the exorcist does actually kill himself haha

azyr spamming wildfire, lightning and cyclone atop his balewind, 

chariots being chariots, and road blocks

SotT cheap Battleline casters 😁 

eternal guard getting buffed by sisters, 2+rr1 saves, 2 chances at mw back 

Got options first turn and second, 6 drops 

 

You don't have mass for objectives. I will consider at least 20 PG for bodyguard the general on an objective.

[Bigscaryflorister]

Just now, Raffonerd said:

You don't have mass for objectives. I will consider at least 20 PG for bodyguard the general on an objective.

I have the scourgerunners for first turn grab, but the idea I think is to kill the majority of stuff haha. Also planning on uses the SotT for mid game grabs, and there’s shadow warriors for backline obj, or stealing theirs  but ye, I wouldn’t mind another blob... but where? 🤷‍♂️

[Raffonerd]

3 minutes ago, Bigscaryflorister said:

I have the scourgerunners for first turn grab, but the idea I think is to kill the majority of stuff haha. Also planning on uses the SotT for mid game grabs, and there’s shadow warriors for backline obj, or stealing theirs  but ye, I wouldn’t mind another blob... but where? 🤷‍♂️

But if you find 40 x 2 Scheletons?

[Bigscaryflorister]

1 hour ago, Raffonerd said:

But if you find 40 x 2 Scheletons?

If I find 80 scheletons I’ll let you know! What do they look like? 😂

[Bigscaryflorister]

1 hour ago, Raffonerd said:

But if you find 40 x 2 Scheletons?

I meant where would I find the points for more infantry? 

[Chumphammer]

Came up with another list (Having fun just writing them atm)

Anointed on Frostheart: Veteran of the blazing crusade

Battlemage (Ghur - Wildform)
Warding Brand, Ignite Weapons

Battlemage (Aqushy - Fireball)
Sear Wounds, Elemental Cyclon, Ignax's Scales 

Sorceress
Sear Wounds, Roaming wildfire (2nd sear wounds in case I lose the battlemage)

30 Phoenix Guard

20 Dark Shards

10 Dark Shards

10 Shadow Warriors

10 Sisters of the watch

2 Gyrocopters

3 Scourgerunner Chariots

Purple Sun of Shyish

Emerald life swarm

Quicksilver Swords

Kinda same idea as before but Scourgerunner to help vs big things at range (like keepers) and sister of the watch fire support also.  Gyrocopters are really good vs hordes

Gives me a good all around list I feel, competent in every phase. Got some real movement flexibility if needed or can hunker down behind the PG wall

[carloff]

Does Sear Wounds brings slaying models back or it's just WOUNDS?

[Mikkl]

45 minutes ago, carloff said:

Does Sear Wounds brings slaying models back or it's just WOUNDS?

It can only heal wounds. The Emerald Lifeswarm endless spell is you best option for bringing back models.

[carloff]

Your thoughts gentlemen?

Spoiler

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Hallowheart
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Freeguild General (100)
- General
- Trait: Veteran of the Blazing Crusade 
Battlemage (90)
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales 
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Sear Wounds (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Ignite Weapons
- Mortal Realm: Hysh
Battlemage (90)
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Elemental Cyclone (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Ignite Weapons
- Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Battlemage (90)
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Elemental Cyclone (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Ignite Weapons
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Lore of Whitefire - Crystal Aegis (Hallowheart Wizard)
- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell: Sear Wounds
- Allies
6 x Demigryph Knights (360)
- Cavalry Halberd
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
30 x Freeguild Guard (240)
- Halberds and Shields
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
10 x Sisters of the Thorn (260)
10 x Freeguild Pistoliers (200)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)
Quicksilver Swords (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 149

 

[zilberfrid]

The demis can't be retinue, right?

They are not 1 wound models.

[carloff]

5 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

The demis can't be retinue, right?

They are not 1 wound models.

HONOURED RETINUE
A general of the free cities is often accompanied to battle by a handpicked bodyguard consisting of the city’s finest champions. When you choose the general of a Cities of Sigmar army, if the general has a Wounds characteristic of 6 or less, you can pick up to 1 friendly unit to be your general’s retinue. This unit must have between 5 and 20 models. If you pick a retinue, your general gains the following ability: 

Loyal Shields: A general’s trusted companions protect their master in battle. Roll a dice before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to your general while they are within 3" of their retinue. On a 4+, that wound or mortal wound is allocated to the retinue instead of the general. 

Edited October 26, 2019 by carloff
typo

[zilberfrid]

4 minutes ago, carloff said:

HONOURED RETINUE
A general of the free cities is often accompanied to battle by a handpicked bodyguard consisting of the city’s finest champions. When you choose the general of a Cities of Sigmar army, if the general has a Wounds characteristic of 6 or less, you can pick up to 1 friendly unit to be your general’s retinue. This unit must have between 5 and 20 models. If you pick a retinue, your general gains the following ability: 

Loyal Shields: A general’s trusted companions protect their master in battle. Roll a dice before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to your general while they are within 3" of their retinue. On a 4+, that wound or mortal wound is allocated to the retinue instead of the general. 

Hey, I had this entirely differently worded in my head. Thanks!

They may suffer a bit from being slowed down, but can be healed with sear wounds.

[Galamund]

Has anyone tried out taking a Knight-Incantor with Famed Spell-hunter and an Everblaze Comet? I've run it in a few games and I'm pretty reliably able to cast and dispel the Comet every turn (probably 75% of the time) and slam the table with MW. I thought the Comet was an overpriced Endless Spell when I played SCE, but given how you can cast it at +d6 and dispel it at +3, I think it gets far more of an opportunity to earn its points back. Thoughts?

[mmimzie]

4 hours ago, Galamund said:

Has anyone tried out taking a Knight-Incantor with Famed Spell-hunter and an Everblaze Comet? I've run it in a few games and I'm pretty reliably able to cast and dispel the Comet every turn (probably 75% of the time) and slam the table with MW. I thought the Comet was an overpriced Endless Spell when I played SCE, but given how you can cast it at +d6 and dispel it at +3, I think it gets far more of an opportunity to earn its points back. Thoughts?

Framed spell hunter should go on another model. Give that other model retinue so that other model can be the + to cast nexus, as the hero that uses the command ability can't benefitfrom the bonuses, and the retinue can eat some of the damage. 

 

More over if the incanter isn't the spell hunter your general can unbind 2 spells a turn instead of just 1. Meaning you can also recast gemnids/purple sun/pendulum which gives you a lot more milage.