AoS 2 - Living City Discussion

[Cynric]

2 hours ago, Popisdead said:

I have been converting my Glade Guard into SotW with scrounged flaming bows.  I may green stuff flames on more bows but there are enough 3D printers out there to maybe print flaming bows and replace the hands and bows.

I didnt convert my glade guard.  My convention is wood elves with bows/banners/musicians are some sort of battleline ranged unit (usually darkshards but i have played with them as crossbows or handgunners, none of them are the ideal proxy but darkshards keeps it in an elven 6 inch move although the range is a bit too short and the number of shots too high.)  Units without banners/muscicans are counts as elite ranged which is clearly sisters.

I am much more about bringing my wood elves to the table than i am making them match the current imagery.  I look for profiles which get them as close to the spirit of what they were as i can. 

Other proxies i use are:

Orion uses lord castellant profile

His hounds use the gryphound profile and are orions retinue (i use fenserian wolves models from 40k)

Eagles are Phoenix, which variety depending on mood.

My old wood elf mages are usually sorcerous but not satisfied with that

Warhawk riders are aetherwings

Lord on forest dragon is counts as dreadlord on black dragon.

Wardancers are counts as either executioners or rangers.  Neither is really perfect but it lets me put the old figures on the table.

Living city does a descent job letting me keep the old gang together which is perhaps more emotional and important to me than it should be (i have 30 years of history with those exact bits of metal).

Edited March 12, 2021 by Cynric
Added photos of general and honored retinue

[PhoenixLord]

12 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Technically in the best case scenario (any 2 of "didn't move this turn/in terrain/SotT spell) + mystic shield, they're actually tougher than PG since they're sitting at a 2+ save rr 1's. In MOST cases they're going to be leda tough than PG but in edge cases against low rend they're more survivable for a good deal less.

 

That said again most of the time PG are tougher since they can also sit in terrain. Guess it depends if you're fighting a lot of rend or not.

 

Remember it's "didnt make a move action THIS TURN" not round so if you don't pile in the enemies turn after they charge you (or your enemy fights before you activate) you'll always have fortress of boughs active. 

Ohhh, that last part makes them a lot better than my previous assessment. I took it to mean that they couldn't move all turn, marking it niche at best. 

[The Red King]

3 hours ago, PhoenixLord said:

Ohhh, that last part makes them a lot better than my previous assessment. I took it to mean that they couldn't move all turn, marking it niche at best. 

Just to make sure I'm not lying to you I mean they have it any turn they havent made a move. So all of your enemies turns (unless you've piled in or something)

 

On your turns it's still only if they havent moved, charged, etc. 

[Landohammer]

16 hours ago, PhoenixLord said:

I know it could be for thematic purposes, but how do Eternal Guard compare to Dreadspears or Phoenix Guard? They seem to be in an awkward middle ground between the other two Aelven spear units. 

So here is how I view them.

Dreadspears are basically like goblins with better armor. They are actually quite a decent value when taken as a horde unit. They also don't really need to be babysat by a character like many of the other aelven units.  Some people take them in minimum size as cheap battleline filler/screens/obj campers but I personally find Darkshards better for that role. Dreadspears should be taken as a horde, or not at all.

Eternal guard are a step up from dreadspears, but really only in terms of defense. Their offensive output ranges from bad to good depending on the circumstances and unit they are fighting, but their primary role is sit on an objective and never die. These guys are basically a unit that will often never charge, which is hard to work around, but in the right circumstances they can be EXTREMELY hard to deal with, especially for certain armies. 

Phoenix Guard are if you simply want the best of the best in terms of offensive output and defense Aelf infantry. Also note that unlike dreadspears and eternal guard, you really need an Anointed nearby to fully capitalize on their potential, so your phoenix guard points investment can add up fast. You don't often supplement an army with PG, but rather build your army around them. 

[Landohammer]

16 hours ago, The Red King said:

Technically in the best case scenario (any 2 of "didn't move this turn/in terrain/SotT spell) + mystic shield, they're actually tougher than PG since they're sitting at a 2+ save rr 1's. In MOST cases they're going to be leda tough than PG but in edge cases against low rend they're more survivable for a good deal less.

 

That said again most of the time PG are tougher since they can also sit in terrain. Guess it depends if you're fighting a lot of rend or not.

 

Remember it's "didnt make a move action THIS TURN" not round so if you don't pile in the enemies turn after they charge you (or your enemy fights before you activate) you'll always have fortress of boughs active. 

I wish Sisters of the Thorn were cheaper. Their spell is super limited on who it can buff, which seems overly harsh since most other spellcasters aren't restricted to a subfaction. Regardless I think Eternal guard definitely have some potential. 30 wounds with a guaranteed 3+ save (sometimes 2+) can shut certain armies down. 

 

16 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Me too.  And the problem is against one guy you did 30 dmg and 0 against the rest and he's the most vocal opponent

Swinginess is the 100% biggest issue with Durthu and most "elite" stuff.  I don't understand how every Character in 40k has 2+ ands so rare in AoS.  I hated dice spiking in pre-8th Fantasy.  No reason Durthu isn't hitting or wounding on a 2+ if not both.  He's an avatar of killing.  

I have been converting my Glade Guard into SotW with scrounged flaming bows.  I may green stuff flames on more bows but there are enough 3D printers out there to maybe print flaming bows and replace the hands and bows.  

To me the unit is an over performer.  Even at 160 points.  They are pricey and fragile but with LC they sure show you how gross spamming them can be.  I could technically proxy about 90 with GG, Waywatchers, old Scouts, and new SotW models.  

I don't understand a lot of To-Hit rolls in the Sylvaneth book. In addition to Durthu, we have

Wardroth Beatle on a 4+

Kurnoth Bows on a 4+

Tree Revs on a 4+

These are elite units that are paying elite points, yet the are often on 5+ vs the RAMPANT -1 to hit in the game. My 600 Aelf God shouldn't risk bouncing off a unit of 10 Sentinels/Pink Horrors. 

I think proxying GG as sisters is smart, but I actually ended up splurging and buying 3 boxes of SoTW. I like the models and they really work well with contrast paint. I always found GG to be challenging to paint well quickly. 

I keep thinking about how great Sisters would be with Tempest eye +1 to wound and run/shoot CA. (for a potential 2+/2+ with a Nomad Prince and 16 inch movement on turn 1 ) but in every game I have played so far, deployed Sisters get murdered on the top of turn 1. Living City guarantees I at least get to use them, so I think its the default choice for fielding them. 

[The Red King]

I briefly enjoyed 50 sisters in a list but it really felt like overcommiting to one game plan and limits your ability to take/hold objectives because you lose so much damage output by moving and they have zero survivability.

[Landohammer]

Since we are on the topic of Sisters, here is a quick update of my game of Living City vs Hallowheart this weekend.  Scenario was Blades Edge

Deepstriked 10 sisters on the left on turn 1 and combined with Nomad Prince buff did 8 wounds to a Sorceress on Dragon. Scored the double and finished her off. On my second turn I deepstriked 20 Sisters on the right and shot at some Greatswords but only did like 5 wounds due to mediocre rolling. Killed 5 more on the overwatch next turn but then got murdered in combat lol.

Not sure on the math, but somehow 10 sisters buffed outperformed 20 sisters. I know the Greatswords had a better armor save than the dragon, but nevertheless it was interesting results that made me rethink my list a bit. Those 10 sisters went on to kill two more units and claim a crucial objective. 

Final result was 14-11 Living City win. (thanks in no small part to a Flame Phoenix of all things rezzing at a crucial moment)

In the future I may go with 3 units of 10 sisters. Losing 20 in a single combat really hurts. 

[martinwolf]

I know that feeling of losing a 20 block in one round of combat. It’s not great. I once tried out a list with MSU sisters. I don’t remember the exact list but I had like 4x 10 or something like that. It played surprisingly well. I currently only have 20, I proxied the rest.

I find that having a Knight Azyros nearby to get the rerolling 1s is better than the Nomad Prince buff and it doesn’t cost a CP.

I just wish the Living City strike and melt away ability would buff Sisters instead of melee units. I still use it quite a lot to move a deep struck unit onto an objective, but yeah, dunno.

Also, would love a battalion around Sisters anf Nomad Prince instead of Wildwood Rangers. 😢

Anyway, congrats on the win!

[The Red King]

49 minutes ago, martinwolf said:

I find that having a Knight Azyros nearby to get the rerolling 1s is better than the Nomad Prince buff and it doesn’t cost a CP.

Porque no los dos?

 

That's what I do anyway. Makes a nice little adjutant package as well since they can deep strike together.

[Landohammer]

Knight Azyros is solid all around, but it can be super tricky to get him in range to use his reroll 1's ability while my sisters are usually going to be at their max shooting range, so that I don't give my opponent an easy counter charge.  So it usually ends up being a 100pt suicide drop lol. 

I wish the Nomad Prince was cheaper and didn't require CP to do his function. Freeguild generals, Runelords and Sorceress are cheaper and can buff their subfaction units automatically, without the need for CP.

[Popisdead]

On 3/11/2021 at 2:30 PM, PhoenixLord said:

I know it could be for thematic purposes, but how do Eternal Guard compare to Dreadspears or Phoenix Guard? They seem to be in an awkward middle ground between the other two Aelven spear units. 

I think a lot of people historically have EG which serve a good roll as BL (3x10 isn't terrible if you wanted a Durthu as your general), I know that's my case.  I own 30 2005 metal era Eternal Guard and they are painted and good (not great not bad).  Phoenix Guard are a standout in the book as a good choice to take if building a new army.  I think people keep expecting them to get nerfed or at least next book possibly not as good.  But right now if playing with grey plastic going for a win PG take the choice.

 

On 3/11/2021 at 3:02 PM, Cynric said:

Orion uses lord castellant profile

Wardancers are counts as either executioners or rangers.  Neither is really perfect but it lets me put the old figures on the table.

Living city does a descent job letting me keep the old gang together which is perhaps more emotional and important to me than it should be (i have 30 years of history with those exact bits of metal).

I use my Orion with Ariel's wings as an ARch Revenant.  

You can reuse more than people thing with some effort.  I was thinking Wardancers as Executioners but I would use those in TE not LC.  I do a lot of similar conversions and proxies.  

On 3/12/2021 at 6:52 AM, Landohammer said:

Eternal guard are a step up from dreadspears, but really only in terms of defense. Their offensive output ranges from bad to good depending on the circumstances and unit they are fighting, but their primary role is sit on an objective and never die. These guys are basically a unit that will often never charge, which is hard to work around, but in the right circumstances they can be EXTREMELY hard to deal with, especially for certain armies. 

Phoenix Guard are if you simply want the best of the best in terms of offensive output and defense Aelf infantry. Also note that unlike dreadspears and eternal guard, you really need an Anointed nearby to fully capitalize on their potential, so your phoenix guard points investment can add up fast. You don't often supplement an army with PG, but rather build your army around them. 

I think,.. Eternal Guard in the right circumstance can have better output than opponents expect but if you faced Blight Kings rend is always king; the BKs will just grind them down.    

Sigvald deny's all enemy saves (or at least stops Damage Prevention Rolls with -2 or -3 rend?) which makes me wonder if we'll see more of those lessening the effect of PGs survivability.  I mean one character cannot stop a PG army but if someone took 20 PG to hold an objective a Slaanesh player could counter with a Lurid Haze Sigvald with some effect.  Be'lakor might have this in AoS or 40k or both?  I don't recall.  But again,.. having access to deny DPR in  more armies will have a long term effect on PG.

On 3/15/2021 at 6:33 AM, Landohammer said:

In the future I may go with 3 units of 10 sisters. Losing 20 in a single combat really hurts. 

I've gone back on 10 or 20 for SotW myself.  20 hurts to lose but someone local keeps arguing you want them around on objectives in that size.   I just don't want them on objectives I want them shooting threats.  I also like MSU threat saturation.  Plus if you have 20 you can to decide if you want to split fire 10/10 but 2 x 10 you get a couple more shots from the second champion and it forces your opponent to deal with two threats.

On 3/15/2021 at 9:24 AM, Landohammer said:

I wish the Nomad Prince was cheaper and didn't require CP to do his function. Freeguild generals, Runelords and Sorceress are cheaper and can buff their subfaction units automatically, without the need for CP.

I wish everything Wanderer was cheaper.  Even SotW which are great are costly.  

[Landohammer]

@Popisdead

The rend is pretty huge on PG. But at 260pts I am not terribly worried about Sigvald being a hard counter for a 280pt unit of PG. I am more offended at the damage that 130pt Dawnriders or 170pt Eels do to our hordes. 

Yea 20 sisters are quite scary on the overwatch, and you are often limited on your deepstrikes in Living City, so combining them just makes sense. But even a mediocre combat unit can wreck them. Kinda annoying that sisters don't get the musician and standard buff.  Seems like an arbitrary decision based on modeling.

I dont' understand how Wanderers made it through the last FAQ update without a points adjustment. Rangers and Sisters being more expensive than Greatswords and Sentinels is just pants on head dumb. Its almost like they forgot the faction existed. (reminds me a lot of WFB wood elves lol)

[Doko]

Greatsword dont makes sense at 140, they must cost 20 more than every other elite unit in our tome.

How is posible that greatsword have the same cost that hammerers per example?

Have 50% more move

Does mortals on hit and not on wound

Have  a +1 hit 

So all this is better than hammerers  for same cost and the only downside is the inmune to moral ofhammerrs near to hero.

Really to me would make more sense:

Rangers 100

Executioners 100

Hammerers\black guard 120

Greatswords 140

Phoenyx guard 160

Rigth now dont make sense how the elites are pricee

[Zeblasky]

9 hours ago, Landohammer said:

@Popisdead

 

. Rangers and Sisters being more expensive than Greatswords and Sentinels is just pants on head dumb. Its almost like they forgot the faction existed. (reminds me a lot of WFB wood elves lol)

Rangers are pretty weak, sure, may be one of the worst units in the Cities. But complaining that one of the best (if not the best) of our ranged units price is unfair if compared to kinda broken and the most hated unit in Lumineth (aka fresh release) faction... is not a fair comparison. Sentinels must be nerfed, not the other way around.  Maaay be, just may be Sisters deserve something to their survavibility, like +1 to their save (may be even conditional, active only if they moved this round (hello Living City CA)) but that's more of my wishful thinking instead of a good balance advice.

 

On 3/12/2021 at 6:13 PM, Landohammer said:

I wish Sisters of the Thorn were cheaper. Their spell is super limited on who it can buff, which seems overly harsh since most other spellcasters aren't restricted to a subfaction

They are 130 points 5 models (with big long bases) 10 wounds 5+ save 12 move wizard, that can actually do decent damage to enemies with weak saves (up to 26 4+/4+ attacks, 10 of which are ranged with -1 rend). You can't get cheaper than this for all that versatility and I am still really surprised that only a very few people use them as they can useful for so many things.

Just compare them to Sorceress, our best cheap mage as of now.  She costs 40 less, has great CA, can get +2 to casts with sacrifice, sure, that's all cool.  But that's it. Her tankiness and mobility is much worse, her damage is non existant, she can't screen or contest objectives. Still, sorceress is a great pick. And only for 40 points more so are the Sisters.

Sisters spell is very limited though, sure. Great for camping Eternal Guard or camping/teleporting Sisters of the Watch, but that's kinda it. But so what? Sisters still get great selection of spells from Living City lore (and every single one of them is worth casting) and a new Realm spell as well. Plenty of casting choices to go around.

[Landohammer]

11 hours ago, Zeblasky said:

Rangers are pretty weak, sure, may be one of the worst units in the Cities. But complaining that one of the best (if not the best) of our ranged units price is unfair if compared to kinda broken and the most hated unit in Lumineth (aka fresh release) faction... is not a fair comparison. Sentinels must be nerfed, not the other way around.  Maaay be, just may be Sisters deserve something to their survavibility, like +1 to their save (may be even conditional, active only if they moved this round (hello Living City CA)) but that's more of my wishful thinking instead of a good balance advice.

 

They are 130 points 5 models (with big long bases) 10 wounds 5+ save 12 move wizard, that can actually do decent damage to enemies with weak saves (up to 26 4+/4+ attacks, 10 of which are ranged with -1 rend). You can't get cheaper than this for all that versatility and I am still really surprised that only a very few people use them as they can useful for so many things.

Just compare them to Sorceress, our best cheap mage as of now.  She costs 40 less, has great CA, can get +2 to casts with sacrifice, sure, that's all cool.  But that's it. Her tankiness and mobility is much worse, her damage is non existant, she can't screen or contest objectives. Still, sorceress is a great pick. And only for 40 points more so are the Sisters.

Sisters spell is very limited though, sure. Great for camping Eternal Guard or camping/teleporting Sisters of the Watch, but that's kinda it. But so what? Sisters still get great selection of spells from Living City lore (and every single one of them is worth casting) and a new Realm spell as well. Plenty of casting choices to go around.

Yea Sentinels are probably a bad comparison. Sentinels definitely deserve a points hike, but I'm still not sure 160pts is fair for Sisters. Perhaps Irondrakes or Shadow Warriors are a better comparison. Both of which are cheaper. I generally find that Irondrakes out-perform sisters shot for shot, and that gap gets wider when shooting at monsters. Sisters are waaaay too dependent on 6s.

Sisters of the Thorn are a bit of a mixed bag. They are  a jack of all trades unit, and on paper seem to have a lot of value. But they do none of their jobs well. They are not tanky, they don't fight well, and their shooting is never worth the suicidal range of 9" it takes to use it. Their spell has extremely limited application. So ultimately they just end up being a wizard that can double as a screen in a pinch. Thats far from useless, but I personally struggle to find the points for them. (though I own and love the models)

The sorceress is often tankier when it matters because of Look out Sir and honored Retinue. But lets be honest, both are going to die if your opponent dedicates resources to them. Her spell is infinitely more valuable. Heck, it could even be argued that her spell is better at protecting Eternal Guard lol. 

 

 

 

 

[mrteige]

So i just made my version of a Dreadlord on black dragon. What do you guys think

I call it "Shard and his pet Owl"

 

[Cynric]

1 hour ago, mrteige said:

So i just made my version of a Dreadlord on black dragon. What do you guys think

I call it "Shard and his pet Owl"

 

You could also put the larger base under it and use it as anointed with pheonix.

[mrteige]

4 minutes ago, Cynric said:

You could also put the larger base under it and use it as anointed with pheonix.

I could but i have another idea for a phoenix

[Popisdead]

On 3/17/2021 at 9:45 AM, Landohammer said:

I dont' understand how Wanderers made it through the last FAQ update without a points adjustment. Rangers and Sisters being more expensive than Greatswords and Sentinels is just pants on head dumb. Its almost like they forgot the faction existed. (reminds me a lot of WFB wood elves lol)

I don't understand how they made two revisions without a points change.  I've never seen a Wanderers army place in a tournament and rarely if ever see them.  I have to commend GW for making the units feel and play elite but I never saw the points or Sylvaneth Integration as well done.  

5 hours ago, Landohammer said:

Sisters of the Thorn are a bit of a mixed bag. They are  a jack of all trades unit, and on paper seem to have a lot of value. But they do none of their jobs well. 

The sorceress is often tankier when it matters because of Look out Sir and honored Retinue. But lets be honest, both are going to die if your opponent dedicates resources to them. Her spell is infinitely more valuable. Heck, it could even be argued that her spell is better at protecting Eternal Guard lol. 

This kinda nailed it on both units.

SotT can't cast reliably outside maybe some lower casting value endless spells.  I don't think they are bad it's just,.. they don't really bring much to the game and in a book that is a solid but not broken book, a weaker unit, especially costly isn't an optimal choice.  Being I love the models I'm sad about this. I guess they are a better choice in Hallowheart (the magic one?).  Which is fine, I guess GW sells the models.  Granted their spell in the past was very good cause of stacking saves.  

The Sorceress is pretty much a better choice always cause at, 180 points with her "bonus pool" of Darkshards she's going to be more reliable to cast and she can help generate CP.  

1 hour ago, mrteige said:

I could but i have another idea for a phoenix

There was a large owl made by a 3rd party manufacturer in 8th before Wood Elves got their book.  I saw people convert it to a Great Eagle and more recently a Phoenix (it must have been a bit larger than a Great Eagle).  Personally I'm a big fan of converting models up for CoS.  

[mrteige]

7 hours ago, Popisdead said:

There was a large owl made by a 3rd party manufacturer in 8th before Wood Elves got their book.  I saw people convert it to a Great Eagle and more recently a Phoenix (it must have been a bit larger than a Great Eagle).  Personally I'm a big fan of converting models up for CoS.  

Im planning on using the phoenix kit but then remove the ice part and add vines and leafs. I want it to be a forrest phoenix instead of a frost phoenix

[Zeblasky]

On 3/18/2021 at 6:32 PM, Landohammer said:

 Perhaps Irondrakes or Shadow Warriors are a better comparison. Both of which are cheaper. I generally find that Irondrakes out-perform sisters shot for shot, and that gap gets wider when shooting at monsters. Sisters are waaaay too dependent on 6s.

Sisters of the Thorn are a bit of a mixed bag. They are  a jack of all trades unit, and on paper seem to have a lot of value. But they do none of their jobs well. They are not tanky, they don't fight well, and their shooting is never worth the suicidal range of 9" it takes to use it. Their spell has extremely limited application. So ultimately they just end up being a wizard that can double as a screen in a pinch. Thats far from useless, but I personally struggle to find the points for them. (though I own and love the models)

The sorceress is often tankier when it matters because of Look out Sir and honored Retinue. But lets be honest, both are going to die if your opponent dedicates resources to them. Her spell is infinitely more valuable. Heck, it could even be argued that her spell is better at protecting Eternal Guard lol.

 

Sure, Ironrakes are more reliable in terms of damage, can get crazy buffed to kill half of your opponent table in one turn, and sisters are a bit more RNG dependant. One turn 20 sisters can roll 2 sixes, the other turn they can roll 8. It's not often RNG strikes that hard though, but it does happen. I woudn't say it's bad, it's just different. Sometimes they can be quite underperforming, sometimes they can be amazing and save you the game. But purely on average and unbuffed they still do deal slightly more damage than Irondrakes though. I do actually enjoy how both of those units are differently balanced - one is tanky and reliable with crazy buffing potential, while other is faster and more independent unit with better range and overwatch.

 

Well, the Sorceress + 10 darkshards combo is interesting. Good magic plus some ranged fire support only for 180 points sitting on your backfield objectives. Bad thing is that you can't efficiently bring back sacrificed models here and 9 Darkshards do fall off a bit due to losing plus +1 to hit. You won't get an Honored retinue protection btw unless your sorceress is the General. And even then it's only for 1 Sorceress and, unless you need battleline unlocks, is kinda a waste.

I've also run some simulations just for fun, and (without involving magic, all mages buff something else for simplicity) Sisters of the Thorn in Living City on average can take objective from Sorceress +9 darkshards after 2 turns of melee combat, even if Darkshards shot at them before on approach. And they claim objective in 1 turn if they did not. So, who's stonger now? x)

On a more serious note, Sisters of the Thorn are more free to be where I want them to be, making my army extremely mobile overall, while still having magic support. Do I need all of firepower and magic on a flank, where I go all in in killing my enemy force? Sisters can make it there in time. Do I need Sisters to hold a backfield objective while casting spells on a unit on the other side of the board? They form a conga line to be in range. And amount of screening their bases provide feels pretty great. They can potentially even screen for deepstriked Sisters of the Watch if needed.

Now, I do agree that their true potential lies in Hallowheart, where they get both a big bonus to cast and double the casting. Their tankiness gives you a lot of wounds for a magic heavy army, their mobility helps them to be in range for all of your spells past round 1 (taking first turn with them btw is such a waste) and having 5 models to cast from means that their spells have a bit more range as well. But in Living City having a mobile wizard to compliment a mobile army is quite nice as well.

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Zeblasky

[Landohammer]

15 hours ago, Zeblasky said:

 

I've also run some simulations just for fun, and (without involving magic, all mages buff something else for simplicity) Sisters of the Thorn in Living City on average can take objective from Sorceress +9 darkshards after 2 turns of melee combat, even if Darkshards shot at them before on approach. And they claim objective in 1 turn if they did not. So, who's stonger now? x)

On a more serious note, Sisters of the Thorn are more free to be where I want them to be, making my army extremely mobile overall, while still having magic support. Do I need all of firepower and magic on a flank, where I go all in in killing my enemy force? Sisters can make it there in time. Do I need Sisters to hold a backfield objective while casting spells on a unit on the other side of the board? They form a conga line to be in range. And amount of screening their bases provide feels pretty great. They can potentially even screen for deepstriked Sisters of the Watch if needed.

Now, I do agree that their true potential lies in Hallowheart, where they get both a big bonus to cast and double the casting. Their tankiness gives you a lot of wounds for a magic heavy army, their mobility helps them to be in range for all of your spells past round 1 (taking first turn with them btw is such a waste) and having 5 models to cast from means that their spells have a bit more range as well. But in Living City having a mobile wizard to compliment a mobile army is quite nice as well.

 

A lot of the things you are using SotT for are better done by Gyros or Scourgerunners for waaaay cheaper. Sisters are essentially paying a 60 tax to be able to cast a spell.

Its not that they are a bad valued units. They do a lot of things. I just don't need a unit that does a lot of things badly. I need units that do specific things well lol.

That being said, I usually play 2 games a week and I am planning on fielding them in a  friendly game or two next week. I think their spell has some interesting niche uses for specific army builds.

Imagine casting the spell on a  unit of 10 sisters of the watch being used as a screen. Now your opponent has a problem. Not only do they have to eat the overwatch, they also have to worry about getting mortals bounced back on to them for every 6. How often do you take 5-10 mortal wounds just clearing a screen lol. 

Also their spell lasts indefinitely. So if you do manage to actually get it off on 30 Eternal guard that are already on an objective, your opponent has a real problem. 

 

 

 

 

[Popisdead]

On 3/21/2021 at 4:12 PM, Zeblasky said:

I've also run some simulations just for fun, and (without involving magic, all mages buff something else for simplicity) Sisters of the Thorn in Living City on average can take objective from Sorceress +9 darkshards after 2 turns of melee combat, even if Darkshards shot at them before on approach. And they claim objective in 1 turn if they did not. So, who's stonger now? x)

That is a surprising comparison.  I'm not sure anyone thinks of camping objectives with either 5 SotT or a Sorceress and bonus casting unit.  

On 3/22/2021 at 8:18 AM, Landohammer said:

A lot of the things you are using SotT for are better done by Gyros or Scourgerunners for waaaay cheaper. Sisters are essentially paying a 60 tax to be able to cast a spell.

And not cast anywhere near as reliably.  

[FlipRecoil]

After doing a Greywater Fastness list a while ago I thought I'd balance it out with a Living City list. Turns out I really like them. 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Treelord Ancient (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Druid of the Everspring
- Artefact: Wardroth Horn
Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (200)
- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield
Freeguild General (100)

Battleline
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
10 x Ironbreakers (110)
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Swords and Shields
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Swords and Shields

Units
4 x Fulminators (440)
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (380)
- Greatswords

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 134

[Popisdead]

Anyone listen to Facehammer's building a Sylvaneth stream/podcast episode?  

Generally speaking they struggled like we all are to build something, focussed on the Spite battalion min build and taking some heavy hitters (big guys instead of KHs).

The takeaways though were the army has good items and such but the traits that are appealing should be built in as an ability not a trait or command ability.  

Someone ( I think Mirage) had said he felt Alarielle could get 4D3 AoE healing off without casting a spell.  I don't recall finding all the sources he's quoting for this.  It came up in my head when they talked about taking big guys.