The Red King Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 9 hours ago, KydbrookP said: Well personally I’d be very happy to see these in progress every step of the way. They look awesome - and I’m digging the backstory too. How’s the dragon coming along, he was looking great too? Oh did I never post the finished picture? I've actually fully painted and based them. I didn't take any progress pictures but it was mostly me cursing as I glued my fingers together and dropped the most minuscule trimmings off dryad bits lol 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KydbrookP Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 17 hours ago, The Red King said: Oh did I never post the finished picture? I've actually fully painted and based them. I didn't take any progress pictures but it was mostly me cursing as I glued my fingers together and dropped the most minuscule trimmings off dryad bits lol Awesome job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Thank you for the kind words. I admit that internet admiration is always quite motivating when my painting desire lags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnholyRevenant Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) Finally got my cities project back from the painters. 2k points of all Wanderers. Nuts as to whether its competitive or not, I'm looking forward to some classic rank and flank style gameplay. Got DoK if I want to get nasty. Edited January 24, 2021 by UnholyRevenant 2 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 On 1/21/2021 at 9:59 PM, The Red King said: Update. These fulminators better be worth it. I had to cut up an re-carve one "antler" multiple times. Looks great! On 1/22/2021 at 11:28 PM, The Red King said: I hope this isnt spam but I built the second fulminator and primed them both so heres half the final squad (pending bits). Also looks great! not spamming at all when we see hobby creativity granted,.. there is an argument for hobby threads vs tactic threads. On 1/23/2021 at 11:33 AM, The Red King said: Looks grisley 21 hours ago, UnholyRevenant said: Finally got my cities project back from the painters. 2k points of all Wanderers. Nuts as to whether its competitive or not, I'm looking forward to some classic rank and flank style gameplay. Got DoK if I want to get nasty. Looks great! I love seeing elf infantry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 I was just looking at Drycha, noticed her Primal Scream (which on it's own is pretty ineffective within Sylvaneth allegiance) but a buddy built an Anvilguard Bravery hammer list and went 3-0 in the immediate tournament. I don't know all the stacks but think there is merit in LC to go this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzeentch Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 What do you guys think about the following list? I'm going for something relatively fluffy (ie wood elves and treants) yet still effective. It's basically a 6 drop that doesn't really care about going first or second. All your effective units can deepstrike, EG are quite tanky first turn, and Knight-Incantor can pop his scroll to counter either offense or defense depending on opponent's army. SoTT can provide support and capture distant objectives. You have SotWx20, Knight-Azyros, and Spirit of Durthu as a really nasty deepstrike drop wherever they'll be most effective. Arch-Revenant + Kurnoth Hunters can be dropped at a critical objective, and with Emerald Lifeswarm provide a really really nasty roadblock. The Aetherwings and Gyrocopters seem kind of useless and out of place. They were necessary for 12 units to meet the requirements for 1/4. Any suggestions for improvement? Cheers ++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Order - Cities of Sigmar) [2,000pts] ++ + Leader + Arch-Revenant [100pts] Knight-Azyros [100pts] Knight-Incantor [120pts]: 1. Lifesurge Spirit of Durthu [300pts]: 1. Ironoak Artisan, 1. Spear of the Hunt, General + Battleline + Eternal Guard [130pts]: 10 Eternal Guard Eternal Guard [130pts]: 10 Eternal Guard Eternal Guard [130pts]: 10 Eternal Guard + Other + Aetherwings [40pts]: 3 Aetherwings Gyrocopters [70pts]: Gyrocopters, Steam Gun Kurnoth Hunters [380pts]: 2x 3 Kurnoth Hunters, Kurnoth Scythe Sisters of the Thorn [130pts]: 3. Ironoak Skin, 5 Sisters of the Thorn Sisters of the Watch [320pts]: 2x 10 Sisters of the Watch + Allegiance + Allegiance . Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar: Living City + Game Options + Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost + Malign Sorcery + Endless Spell: Emerald Lifeswarm [50pts] ++ Total: [2,000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormlight Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 On 1/26/2021 at 11:25 AM, Popisdead said: I was just looking at Drycha, noticed her Primal Scream (which on it's own is pretty ineffective within Sylvaneth allegiance) but a buddy built an Anvilguard Bravery hammer list and went 3-0 in the immediate tournament. I don't know all the stacks but think there is merit in LC to go this way? I don't think it would be competitive and it probably wouldn't be as good as the Anvilguard version, but it would certainly be fun! Drycha + Dark Riders + Kharibdyss + Freeguild General on Griffon. Takes full advantage of the Living City free heal. Unfortunately, no battleline monsters and Drycha was nerfed slightly in the winter FAQ. On 1/26/2021 at 11:28 AM, Tzeentch said: What do you guys think about the following list? I'm going for something relatively fluffy (ie wood elves and treants) yet still effective. It's basically a 6 drop that doesn't really care about going first or second. All your effective units can deepstrike, EG are quite tanky first turn, and Knight-Incantor can pop his scroll to counter either offense or defense depending on opponent's army. SoTT can provide support and capture distant objectives. You have SotWx20, Knight-Azyros, and Spirit of Durthu as a really nasty deepstrike drop wherever they'll be most effective. Arch-Revenant + Kurnoth Hunters can be dropped at a critical objective, and with Emerald Lifeswarm provide a really really nasty roadblock. The Aetherwings and Gyrocopters seem kind of useless and out of place. They were necessary for 12 units to meet the requirements for 1/4. Any suggestions for improvement? Cheers ++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Order - Cities of Sigmar) [2,000pts] ++ + Leader + Arch-Revenant [100pts] Knight-Azyros [100pts] Knight-Incantor [120pts]: 1. Lifesurge Spirit of Durthu [300pts]: 1. Ironoak Artisan, 1. Spear of the Hunt, General + Battleline + Eternal Guard [130pts]: 10 Eternal Guard Eternal Guard [130pts]: 10 Eternal Guard Eternal Guard [130pts]: 10 Eternal Guard + Other + Aetherwings [40pts]: 3 Aetherwings Gyrocopters [70pts]: Gyrocopters, Steam Gun Kurnoth Hunters [380pts]: 2x 3 Kurnoth Hunters, Kurnoth Scythe Sisters of the Thorn [130pts]: 3. Ironoak Skin, 5 Sisters of the Thorn Sisters of the Watch [320pts]: 2x 10 Sisters of the Watch + Allegiance + Allegiance . Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar: Living City + Game Options + Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost + Malign Sorcery + Endless Spell: Emerald Lifeswarm [50pts] ++ Total: [2,000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe I love it! Is it the most competitive list you can build? No, but it's a thematically-appropriate Living City list with all the right pieces. Don't ever feel bad for taking Aetherwings if you have a free slot. 40 points for a flying, six wound unit that can screen? Yes please. You can fly them up to take an objective on turn one and score some free points before they die. Not bad at all. I'm not the biggest fan of Sisters of the Thorn, though. The Emerald Lifeswarm would be slightly easier to cast with a Sorceress + 10 darkshards to stab, so maybe remove the Copter and the Sisters of the Thorn to free up those points? Or swap the Sisters of the Thorn for an allied IDK Shark with the new net launcher rule? Preventing your opponent from piling in would keep your EG alive. The best part about Cities of Sigmar is that we have a plethora of choices! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynric Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 On 1/26/2021 at 11:28 AM, Tzeentch said: What do you guys think about the following list? I'm going for something relatively fluffy (ie wood elves and treants) yet still effective. It's basically a 6 drop that doesn't really care about going first or second. All your effective units can deepstrike, EG are quite tanky first turn, and Knight-Incantor can pop his scroll to counter either offense or defense depending on opponent's army. SoTT can provide support and capture distant objectives. You have SotWx20, Knight-Azyros, and Spirit of Durthu as a really nasty deepstrike drop wherever they'll be most effective. Arch-Revenant + Kurnoth Hunters can be dropped at a critical objective, and with Emerald Lifeswarm provide a really really nasty roadblock. The Aetherwings and Gyrocopters seem kind of useless and out of place. They were necessary for 12 units to meet the requirements for 1/4. Any suggestions for improvement? Cheers ++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Order - Cities of Sigmar) [2,000pts] ++ + Leader + Arch-Revenant [100pts] Knight-Azyros [100pts] Knight-Incantor [120pts]: 1. Lifesurge Spirit of Durthu [300pts]: 1. Ironoak Artisan, 1. Spear of the Hunt, General + Battleline + Eternal Guard [130pts]: 10 Eternal Guard Eternal Guard [130pts]: 10 Eternal Guard Eternal Guard [130pts]: 10 Eternal Guard + Other + Aetherwings [40pts]: 3 Aetherwings Gyrocopters [70pts]: Gyrocopters, Steam Gun Kurnoth Hunters [380pts]: 2x 3 Kurnoth Hunters, Kurnoth Scythe Sisters of the Thorn [130pts]: 3. Ironoak Skin, 5 Sisters of the Thorn Sisters of the Watch [320pts]: 2x 10 Sisters of the Watch + Allegiance + Allegiance . Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar: Living City + Game Options + Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost + Malign Sorcery + Endless Spell: Emerald Lifeswarm [50pts] ++ Total: [2,000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Perhaps change the eternal guard out for one of the 100 point battleline ranged weapon units (crossbows or handgunners or darkshards.) I use my old woodelf archer models and count them as one of those. Eternal guard as a block of 10 has never done much for me (20 or dont bother imo), while archers consistently do something. You might be happier with the performance and you get 90 more points to spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 On 1/26/2021 at 11:28 AM, Tzeentch said: Emerald Lifeswarm provide a really really nasty roadblock. nice. Very similar to the list I am focussing on. You may find the Arch Rev doen't do that much for the inclusion. Combine your Hunters cause they have 2" reach. If you had taken Swords, then 2x3 makes sense. If you start facing mega casters the SotT may do little for you (I would have expected a Phoenix with them) and while they are good,.. they have no casting bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynric Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Popisdead said: Combine your Hunters cause they have 2" reach. If you had taken Swords, then 2x3 makes sense. I wonder if living city changes the conventional wisdom for multiwound models. Two units maximize healing from the city trait, gives operational flexibility, helps with the 1:4 units possibilities, firewalls off some damage and help with "wholly within". If the army has significant buffs then of course one unit gets more attractive but as living city feels weak in magic i tend to not rely upon it much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Cynric said: I wonder if living city changes the conventional wisdom for multiwound models. Two units maximize healing from the city trait, gives operational flexibility, helps with the 1:4 units possibilities, firewalls off some damage and help with "wholly within". If the army has significant buffs then of course one unit gets more attractive but as living city feels weak in magic i tend to not rely upon it much. Not sure that makes sense. 6x1 has an easier time for Wholly Within than 2 x 3. Conventional wisdom is 6-man Hunters is better. Why cut your # of attacks in half or thinking exposing your battleline to more of the enemy is better? It also helps with the 1:4 more than having 2 units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) So due to my own impatience and a surprisingly quick bits seller in Europe I find I have the option if running 6 Dracothian guard in a living cities list so now my question is do I run Dreadlord on Black Dragon w/spear Knight Azyros Nomad prince w/druid & lifesurge (maybe ironoak would be better to protect the fulminators) Sorceress w/cage SotW ×30 Dreadspears ×10 2× Eternal guard ×10 Fulminators ×4 Tree revenants ×5 Soulsnare shackles (really wish theyd clarified if druid of the ever spring circle makes the general a wizard or not but I guess if nothing else this can slow the advance towards my fragile spear bunker) OR Same as above but dropping the dragon to bring 2 extra fulminators plus another unit of revenants. Note I cant squeeze either list to give me a command point in place of shackles which pushes me towards the second list because with my threat concentrated into one unit of 6 I spend less CP on "fire and fade" as well as gaining more board control with the revenants. I lose out on a good recipient for artifacts (probably just take deepmire cloak on the prince I guess?) And technically lose out on one wound total in the list but 5 of those are revenants so considering how easy they are to kill it feels like gaining wounds. The dragon also flies, has more movement, can fire and fade without needing another hero nearby and looks really cool if I do say so myself. He's also a hero which matters in some missions though in most missions the revenants represent better scoring potential. Any more experienced players willing to share a little wisdom? Edited January 29, 2021 by The Red King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormlight Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 On 1/29/2021 at 2:38 PM, The Red King said: Same as above but dropping the dragon to bring 2 extra fulminators plus another unit of revenants. When shooting and charging, two Fulminators will deal ~10 average wounds. Per the chart below, four Fulminators = ~21 wounds, six Fulminators = ~32 wounds. You're probably safe with four at 440 points, instead of six at 660 points. The latter will be hard to ambush and charge in such a way that they can all attack. Six dracothian bases take up a lot of room. Also, a smart opponent will gum you up with cheap screens when your hammer is worth 2/3 of your points. I would keep the Dreadlord, especially if you prefer the "cool" factor. It combos well with the spear. Your opponent has to respect the flying, strikes-first monster with a maximum charge of 36" (12" base + 12" for strike then melt away + 12" max charge). Are you ambushing the sisters? A block of 20 will delete most enemy units, so you could shave 10 off the squad of 30 and save 160 points. Perhaps to change the 10 dreadspears to 20 darkshards and buy the command point? It's nice to have shooting on the board and the hidden paths. Your opponent has to make some tough choices when they are facing 40 shots on each side of the table Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I like the coolness but he feels way too swingy in combat. He averages just slightly over 10 wounds himself right? I'm absolutely open to being convinced to keep the dragon after I spent so much time converting and painting him lol. I think I like the sisters over crossbows but that might also just be because they're painted and collecting and painting 20 darkshards isnt particularly appealing to me and not due to it's tactical merit lol. As for 20 usually being enough am I mistaken that I can just split fire if I need to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeblasky Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) So, I've done some stathammering about Black Dragon and Concussors-Fulmigators. Black Dragon was modeled as I use him (with Lance and Spear of the Hunt, on the charge), while Concussors and Fulminators were given 3 models as to bring theoretical point cost closer together (300 and 330). Below is melee damage only. Please note that Concussors-Fulminators average damage is very slightly lower than it should be due to Stathammer limitations (Intolerable Damage trait does 1+D3 here instead of D6 as it should be). Save Black Dragon on charge concussors fulminators on charge 2+ 5.3 6.17 6 3+ 7.14 8.5 9 4+ 8.98 10.83 12 5+ 10.38 13.17 15 6+ 11.04 15.5 18 - 11.04 15.5 18 So, at first glance it does not seem that huge of a difference. With an artifact Black Dragon fights first and deal a bit less damage than his counterparts versus high saves, but gets completely outclassed versus low saves. Seems pretty reasonable. But then we get to shooting and it becomes problematic. Three Dracothian guards deal 3 mortal wounds on average with their shooting, which is pretty big. While Black dragon only has a pitiful crossbow (average 1 no rend damage)… and a situationally poweful breath, which is good only against hordes and (with Deepstrike) which will be used only in a second shooting phase. If he can use it on a 40 model unit, he gets 6.8 mortal wounds on average, but only 1.7 MW versus 10 models. Good thing here is that Breath attack power does not degrade with wounds and does not get affected by any modifiers (unlike Storm Blast), bad thing is that Breath is not easy to use. Hard to properly rate it's power because of that. So in terms of damage Black Dragon is generally outclassed here (especially versus low armor). He's also heavily outclassed in terms of tankiness and special abilities (No enemy pile in on hit from Concussors and +1 to save versus shooting on Fulminators.). Then it seems that, unless you expect to fight a lot of hordes, in Living City Black Dragon with Crossbow and even with Always Fights First is an inferior choice to Concussors-Fulminators. Unless you consider that Dracothian guard most of the time will be charging screens first before getting into the cookie jar. And Black Dragon has 4 more movement (it's actually 14 movement, been FAQed) , flies and with a good charge roll can fly over screens and wreck havok in the backline as a huge scaly assasin. There is also the fact that you need to deepstrike a hero near Concussors-Fulminators to get the Command ability as well, which can put a strain on your deepstrike slots and deployment. While Black Dragon does not always need to be deepstiked. If you do not expect for him to get hit before your movement phase, you can put him on the board, fly 14, shoot with 16 reach, then fly 14 again. That's 28 movement before the charge and a potential for a turn 1 Breath attack (if your opponent moved up on the board already). Which is pretty huge and this is something Dracothian guard just can't do. And instead of a Dragon, you can deepstrike any other unit in your army. Like Nomad Prince in mine, which can offer a lot of support and flexibility. Tl;DR: Dracothian guards in Living City are a great combined anvil and hammer in one, while Black Dragon is more of independent fast scalpel with a bonus for horde cleaning. P.S. I did compare Treelord and two Concussors-Fulminators damage for fun. Includes both melee and shooting damage. Save treelord concussors fulminators on charge 2+ 3.79 6.11 6 3+ 5.36 7.67 8 4+ 6.93 9.22 10 5+ 8.5 10.78 12 6+ 10 12.33 14 - 10 12.33 14 Seems that even with +40 points cost Dracothian guard are quite a viable alternative here as well. Edited February 2, 2021 by Zeblasky 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 I really appreciate the numbers and I guess I'm happy to see there is no ONE right answer. I really like my dragon model and value it's flying and self sufficiency. On the other hand I like my fulminators conversion as well and love the mixed list including 2 sylvaneth 2 stormcast 2 dark elves and 4 wood elves, it just feels very cities. Considering that I'm also deep striking 30 sisters with them I imagine I can hopefully get rid of most screens to get those fulminators right into it on turn 1 but their base size IS an issue with the measurement restrictions so I'll have to just test both lists and see what works on the tabletop I suppose. Neither is going to be a top table army either way but I'm not much of a tournament player anyway so I probably just shouldn't stress it. Also, Zeblasky, I love watching you on Turins streams so it's cool to know you play Living City too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popisdead Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 5 hours ago, The Red King said: I really appreciate the numbers and I guess I'm happy to see there is no ONE right answer. I really like my dragon model and value it's flying and self sufficiency. Dont discredit that. Rule of Cool makes something worth it even if it isn't optimal. Granted I think the dragons are better than just cool 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Yeah but my converted fulminators are also cool to me. I'm just gonna play both lists and see what I like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormlight Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 23 hours ago, Zeblasky said: Please note that Concussors-Fulminators average damage is very slightly lower than it should be due to Stathammer limitations (Intolerable Damage trait does 1+D3 here instead of D6 as it should be). In Statshammer you can set the damage of Claws and Fangs to 1 and add the conditional bonus "unmodified rolls of 6 for to wound result in a bonus of d6-1 to damage". On 1/30/2021 at 11:45 PM, The Red King said: As for 20 usually being enough am I mistaken that I can just split fire if I need to? Yes you can. There's nothing inherently wrong about a block of 30 sisters, you just have to screen them well. Ambushing them on boards with lots of terrain can also be challenging. 23 hours ago, Zeblasky said: Tl;DR: Dracothian guards in Living City are a great combined anvil and hammer in one, while Black Dragon is more of independent fast scalpel with a bonus for horde cleaning. Well said. It's nice to have both options available to us in Living City lists. Plus the Broken Realms box is a nice way to cheaply purchase the Dragon and some Dark Elf infantry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 The best screen is shooting off their screen and shoving 6 fulminators directly into his army mwahahaha No your tactical advice is sound though lol If I run the 6 fulminators I actually do have enough drops to break them into 20/10 and still use the hidden paths. Something to consider as it let's me use one unit as the retinue for my general. Oh heres a random fact I hadn't considered till list building but 6 fulminators can also be the retinue if theres ever any reason to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeblasky Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) On 1/19/2021 at 10:20 PM, Popisdead said: oh definitely it works best. I think once again it brings up how LC is a slightly confused city. Wanderers themselves don't have a lot of MW models so it suggest it's a tool to help the larger MW things you bring in like SCE and Sylvaneth. A lot of older Wood Elf players want their army to exist and that means you aren't maximizing the meta-strengths of the city. I would not call LC confused though, more of one of the most flexible cities. Setups relying purely on one aspect of LC or balancing them both are quite viable, which gives you a lot of options. Still though, I have no idea on how to properly maximize wound regeneration here. Just spamming Behemoths, Demigryphs and Concussurs I guess? Or just Demis and pistoliers? On 1/22/2021 at 1:21 AM, Popisdead said: Truth be told I keep rolling up a Treelord after @Zeblasky went on his Treelord championing. They are okay. VS 5+ infantry they can maybe kill 10 in a phase of shooting and CC. Problem is that's it... I still keep wanting them to be better but I'm actually glad he defended them like he did. I shouldn't have crapped on them. I'm really glad you had success with him! And, well, I would guess that you remember Treelord from the times when he was quite a different unit - more expensive and much more powerful one. But right now he is simply quite cost efficient. On 1/28/2021 at 8:17 AM, Stormlight said: Don't ever feel bad for taking Aetherwings if you have a free slot. 40 points for a flying, six wound unit that can screen? Yes please. You can fly them up to take an objective on turn one and score some free points before they die. Not bad at all. I wish it would be easier to get Aetherwings models though. I could easily squeeze 3x3 of them in my build for easier objective control and maximum screening. I don't want to buy 3 Vanguard Raptors boxes for that. On 1/28/2021 at 9:39 PM, Popisdead said: If you start facing mega casters the SotT may do little for you (I would have expected a Phoenix with them) and while they are good,.. they have no casting bonus. Yea, 2x5 Sisters of Thorn deal around the same damage as a Treelord, while being two fast wizards. They are definetly not great wizards, but they are very much so versatile. And that is what I love about them. If whatever poverful magic or anti magic army shuts them off from casting, you can still use them for decent damage and great board control. On 2/2/2021 at 10:43 PM, The Red King said: I really appreciate the numbers and I guess I'm happy to see there is no ONE right answer. I really like my dragon model and value it's flying and self sufficiency. On the other hand I like my fulminators conversion as well and love the mixed list including 2 sylvaneth 2 stormcast 2 dark elves and 4 wood elves, it just feels very cities. Considering that I'm also deep striking 30 sisters with them I imagine I can hopefully get rid of most screens to get those fulminators right into it on turn 1 but their base size IS an issue with the measurement restrictions so I'll have to just test both lists and see what works on the tabletop I suppose. Neither is going to be a top table army either way but I'm not much of a tournament player anyway so I probably just shouldn't stress it. Also, Zeblasky, I love watching you on Turins streams so it's cool to know you play Living City too. You're welcome! I hope that you'll find the list that suits you the most. It could even be the one where you will use Black Dragon and Fulminators together, who knows. By the way, while I LOVE your Fulminators conversions, I personally would have picked Concussors as more reliable. Fulminators damage without the charge sadly is much less impressive, so if you get bogged down or countercharded, you will lose on a lot of damage. If you are afraid of facing a lot of shooting meta though, Fulminators will of course be better, +1 to save on a unit with 3+ and reroll 1 is huge, any ranged overwatch will feel like a joke. And if you run 6 of them, Fulminators charge becomes so devastating, that they destroy almost anything on their way (especially lightly armoured opponents). I am also not sure that you would be able to reliably kill screens with Sisters. 30 models is a lot of damage, but their shooting needs to kill all of most of screens models. It all depends on the quality of screens themselfs, but cheap stuff like 30 Dreadspears or even 40 Clanrats on average will have more than enough models left to stop Fulminators charge. Sure they will die to battleshock even without Fulminators help, but that will happen a phase too late. So I personally have a reversed mindset about this - if situation permits, I would deploy Sisters as close as possible and shoot at enemy backline (especially ranged one), while using my Behemoths to engage screens and pin them in place. Haha, thanks, mate! Wood Elf kiting for life! Or rushes. Or air dominance. Or even frontline builds. Damn I love WE, even without artillery they are so versatile in TW. With an exeption for pure blobs though thankfully. P.S. Oh, and having Fulminators as a retinue could potentially be an amazing idea. Your general with Ironoak Artisan near them will be a terrible target for shooting and your opponent will be able to kill him only with a lot of melee damage or mortal wounds. The question though is which foot general would be good near Fulminators? Who would be a very enticing target? 9 hours ago, Stormlight said: In Statshammer you can set the damage of Claws and Fangs to 1 and add the conditional bonus "unmodified rolls of 6 for to wound result in a bonus of d6-1 to damage". Ooooh, did not knew about that trick, thanks! Edited February 4, 2021 by Zeblasky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfric Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Zeblasky said: The question though is which foot general would be good near Fulminators? Who would be a very enticing target? How about a Knight-Azyros? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) Perhaps I'm simply succumbing to the siren song of big spikey numbers but I'm not really convinced the concussors are better. They deal slightly more damage off the charge but they deal less than fulminators on the charge by what I consider a more considerable margin. Further if you consider that the fulminators gimmick is "dealing loads of damage on the charge" then most people can rightfully say that there is a good chance that in later turns they won't be able to make effective use of it (screens, tarpits, etc.) But the gimmick of the concussors is the potential to prevent piling in and in my mind that's just as nullified in later turns as the fulminators. Your opponent can charge them just as easily as they can fulminators and I grant it takes more of an effort to surround concussors than it does to tag fulminators, but considering their intended place in the enemies lines I dont consider either to be a particularly difficult goal for the enemy to accomplish. So if neither of them are benefiting from their gimmick after round 1 (fulminators would probably be lucky to get 2 charges off in a game while concussors will probably have their pile in prevention matter 2 or 3 times a game) I think the early damage can be more impactful. Also yes I imagine I would more often than not prefer to shoot my sisters at targets behind the screen it IS an option. 30 sisters with the knight Azyros I like to bring should put out roughly 27 wounds against a 5 up save. If that's 40 clanrats that were probably spread thin to prevent the most deep striking than you're down to 13 making a very meager line. If you can set it up so your Dracoths have a different target to shoot or else your opponent has to leave some in range for any reason I cant think of you SHOULD be able to fire and fade around the remainder (to a degree). That said thanks to talking it out here I'm realizing there is no reason not to bring a unit of 10 and a unit of 20 because I have enough units to deepstrike 5 and I'd only be doing 4 (unless I wanna bring a screen of 10 spears I suppose but placing that kind of formation is a nightmare) Holy heck that needed cleaned up. Also I'm a real slow painter but one of the fulminators is ALMOST ready to be posted in their completed color scheme meant to blend many disparate elements. Edited February 4, 2021 by The Red King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 Guys if i wanna play endriniggers in Living city, they count as ally?can they benefit from Living city trait? I have seen a list with stardrake and endriniggers. How that is possible?:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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