AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Emissary]

17 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

Where does it say our command abilities aren't once/turn?

It doesn't.  It just mentions with the Deathrider Wedge that the same unit can't benefit from that command ability more than once a phase.

Also from the Core FAQ:

"Some older command abilities say either that they cannot be used more than once per phase or that a unit cannot benefit from them more than once. These instructions can be ignored because the core rules no longer allow you to use the same command ability more than once in the same phase."

For me as of now you cannot use the Bonereaper command abilities more than once a phase.  I'm not sure why they had to have it in the FAQ about the Wedge.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Emissary

[Aeryenn]

1 hour ago, SilverJelly said:

OBR does NOT get to use generic command abilities.

I thought it was impossible for GW to mess this up but they keep surprise me every time.

Did you know that Sylvaneth was nerfed in this errata? Fearsome Sylvaneth that place at the bottom each tournament! Well deserved. Hope they boosted Seraphon.

[Sception]

yeah, all our CAs are 1/phase because that's just how CAs are in 3e and nothing in this FAQ creates any kind of exception to that.  Unstoppable advance only with one unit per turn, shield wall only with one unit per combat phase, etc.

And we can't participate at all in the /significant portions/ of 3e that are handled via core command abilities.  No charge reactions what so ever.

This is bad.  I understand that I'm experiencing a possible overreaction but my initial impression here is that the entire faction is shelf tier until we get a new battletome or at least a new FAQ.  We're maybe not the faction that comes out worse here (I'm hearing terrible things for slaanesh, bad for sylvaneth), but yeesh this is ugly.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Sception

[Nagashfan]

5 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

I thought it was impossible for GW to mess this up but they keep surprise me every time.

Did you know that Sylvaneth was nerfed in this errata? Fearsome Sylvaneth that place at the bottom each tournament! Well deserved. Hope they boosted Seraphon.

How they get nerfed?

[Emissary]

3 minutes ago, Sception said:

yeah, all our CAs are 1/phase because that's just how CAs are in 3e and nothing in this FAQ creates any kind of exception to that.  Unstoppable advance only with one unit per turn, shield wall only with one unit per combat phase, etc.

And we can't participate at all in the /significant portions/ of 3e that are handled via core command abilities.  No charge reactions what so ever.

This is bad.  I understand that I'm experiencing a possible overreaction but my initial impression here is that the entire faction is shelf tier until we get a new battletome or at least a new FAQ.  We're maybe not the faction that comes out worse here (I'm hearing terrible things for slaanesh, bad for sylvaneth), but yeesh this is ugly.

We got a few things.  I think the Petrifex faction got better.  The Bone-Tithe Shrieker is insanely  good now. 

I'm thinking that Arkhan is really good now.  Now that he can spam mystic shield, which is further improved in a Petrifex army.  Having 1 large Petrifex Mortek Guard unit with mystic shield and shield wall could be really hard to deal with.

[Aeryenn]

7 minutes ago, Nagashfan said:

How they get nerfed?

Mostly by the terrain Awakened Wyldwood rules. 

People point out nerfs here:

https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/18311-aos-2-sylvaneth-discussion/?page=198&tab=comments#comment-530970

[Malakithe]

Maybe this FAQ is just a stand in until a new book? Maybe?

[Aeryenn]

1 minute ago, Malakithe said:

Maybe this FAQ is just a stand in until a new book? Maybe?

Probably but when will we get a new book? It can be anywhere from 2 months to 3 years. I really like my Ossiarch Bonereapers and am really disappointed with them not being able to use core abilities.

[Malakithe]

1 minute ago, Aeryenn said:

Probably but when will we get a new book? It can be anywhere from 2 months to 3 years. I really like my Ossiarch Bonereapers and am really disappointed with them not being able to use core abilities.

Yeah same. Why would they just shut out a full popular faction from participating and interacting with so much of what 3rd is?

Man im sure glad GW gives us insight into what their thought process is....oh wait

[Chris H]

Arkhan can't cast multiple mystic shields anymore. Just picked up most of an OBR army, and have to say I'm a bit worried about these changes.

[Sception]

5 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Maybe this FAQ is just a stand in until a new book? Maybe?

Im not convinced.  GW is very proud of 'unique' mechanics and is willfully incapable of recognizing when such a mechanuc is unuquely /bad/.  Hence tripling down on the double turn.

It seems like 'not able to use core CAs' is a defining unique mechanic for obr in the dev's minds, which means the forces of 'tactical genius' karakros will be summarily locked out of participating in charge reactions, arguably the most tactically engaging new aspect of 3e.  It also has some bad implications for our hoped for mortek archers.

[Emissary]

6 minutes ago, Chris H said:

Arkhan can't cast multiple mystic shields anymore. Just picked up most of an OBR army, and have to say I'm a bit worried about these changes.

Argh, you're right.  Didn't notice it in the change to his staff.

[jhamslam]

6 minutes ago, Chris H said:

Arkhan can't cast multiple mystic shields anymore. Just picked up most of an OBR army, and have to say I'm a bit worried about these changes.

Nagash cant , Arkhan can

[Malakithe]

6 minutes ago, Chris H said:

Arkhan can't cast multiple mystic shields anymore. Just picked up most of an OBR army, and have to say I'm a bit worried about these changes.

It said that for Nagash. I didnt see that for Arkhan unless my brain didnt register more disappointment 

[Emissary]

1 minute ago, Emissary said:

Argh, you're right.  Didn't notice it in the change to his staff.

Actually, his staff is the staff of spirits.  Only Nagash's staff got changed.  Arkhan can still cast mystic shield multiple times.

[Sception]

3 minutes ago, Emissary said:

Actually, his staff is the staff of spirits.  Only Nagash's staff got changed.  Arkhan can still cast mystic shield multiple times.

Yes, though I expect this is an oversight that will be corrected.  I can't imagine they intended to nerf nagash and /not/ arkhan in this way.

[Chris H]

1 minute ago, Sception said:

Yes, though I expect this is an oversight that will be corrected.  I can't imagine they intended to nerf nagash and /not/ arkhan in this way.

Mmm pretty sure they changed it, I'd love it if they hadn't since I've literally got a half assembled Arkhan sitting in front of me.

 

Page 97 – Alakanash, the Staff of Power Change the second sentence of the rule to: ‘In addition, this model can attempt to cast Arcane Bolt any number of times in the same hero phase, even if another Wizard has already attempted to cast the spell in that phase.’

[Sception]

Just now, Chris H said:

Page 97 – Alakanash, the Staff of Power Change the second sentence of the rule to: ‘In addition, this model can attempt to cast Arcane Bolt any number of times in the same hero phase, even if another Wizard has already attempted to cast the spell in that phase.’

That's Nagash's staff.  Arkhan's staff is the Staff of Spirits, on page 98.

[Emissary]

Just now, Chris H said:

Mmm pretty sure they changed it, I'd love it if they hadn't since I've literally got a half assembled Arkhan sitting in front of me.

 

Page 97 – Alakanash, the Staff of Power Change the second sentence of the rule to: ‘In addition, this model can attempt to cast Arcane Bolt any number of times in the same hero phase, even if another Wizard has already attempted to cast the spell in that phase.’

Yes, but Alakanash is for Nagash.  Arkhan has the Staff of Spirits which isn't mentioned.  It's probable it was left out on accident, but as of now Arkhan was untouched.

[Chris H]

Woo, showing my newness to the faction. Thanks for the clarification. I'm expecting a box of Mortek guard to show up this afternoon. Am I wrong in thinking that spears may actually be a valid option now with the new coherency rules ? I know I've seen this discussed here and on other forums, but is there a consensus on units of 20-30 guard? I'm thinking with spears you could also reduce your frontage and maybe deny the enemy being able to get all their models in, while still stabbing from 2 ranks.

 

Thanks again for the clarifications/help pretty new to AoS and very new to OBR

[Emissary]

3 minutes ago, Chris H said:

Woo, showing my newness to the faction. Thanks for the clarification. I'm expecting a box of Mortek guard to show up this afternoon. Am I wrong in thinking that spears may actually be a valid option now with the new coherency rules ? I know I've seen this discussed here and on other forums, but is there a consensus on units of 20-30 guard? I'm thinking with spears you could also reduce your frontage and maybe deny the enemy being able to get all their models in, while still stabbing from 2 ranks.

 

Thanks again for the clarifications/help pretty new to AoS and very new to OBR

With 25mm bases, you can still get 2 ranks of swords fighting which would allow you to do a zigzag pattern and keep coherency with 2 other models within 1".  I don't think the new coherency requirements will make the spears better than swords.  The -1 rend is so important, especially now that All Out Defense is a thing and Mystic Shield was changed.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think Petrifex is back as the go to, unless you are using Katakros.  The change to the base effect plus the -1 rend command ability are so good now.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Emissary

[Btimmy]

1 minute ago, Chris H said:

Woo, showing my newness to the faction. Thanks for the clarification. I'm expecting a box of Mortek guard to show up this afternoon. Am I wrong in thinking that spears may actually be a valid option now with the new coherency rules ? I know I've seen this discussed here and on other forums, but is there a consensus on units of 20-30 guard? I'm thinking with spears you could also reduce your frontage and maybe deny the enemy being able to get all their models in, while still stabbing from 2 ranks.

 

Thanks again for the clarifications/help pretty new to AoS and very new to OBR

Spears are actually even worse now that everything can have +1 save for a command point. Guard can already fight a rank deep with swords and are basically immune to the new coherency rules because they are on 25mm bases. As long as all the guard are always base to base with each other you don't have to worry about it. 

[Sception]

On a positive note... yes, petrifex is much better now.  At least on par with Praetoreans, imo.  the endless spells are also improved, though they do cost more.

I don't think any of that makes up for being shut out of charge reactions, or unstoppable advance being limited to 1/turn, or not being able to mystic shield with nagash multiple times (for a while he seemed to almost maybe be worth his new near thousand point price, but between this latest nerf and the miscast rules I really can't see him being justified), and probably not being able to do so with arkhan either (yeah he is currently still allowed to multicast mystic shield, but I give that like a week, tops).

But yeah, not 100% terrible news, and probably not as bad a situation as slaanesh is in, but I do not hold out a lot of hope for this faction being particularly relevant in 3e.  That said, I've been super wrong many times before, and I've played exactly zero 3e games myself, so maybe, hopefully, I'm throwing a fit over nothing.  I won't be complaining if I end up with egg on my face over this.

[Chris H]

Sounds good, didn't realize they were on 25s, almost everything is on 32+ for my NH (so glad I painted up 20 Bladegeists...) and yes I was trying to justify something besides Petrifex, but I just don't see it. I'll probably do a custom color scheme so I can switch things around.

I ended up picking up Horreks riders, box of mortek guard, crawler, harvester, stalker/immortis box and a couple foot heroes. I already had Arkhan from the start collecting skeleton horde. Do people have any thoughts on 20 vs 30 mortek guard in a unit? Also I realize they aren't great, but could Immortis guard see some play as babysitters for some of our more fragile heroes?

 

[Emissary]

3 minutes ago, Sception said:

On a positive note... yes, petrifex is much better now.  At least on par with Praetoreans, imo.  the endless spells are also improved, though they do cost more.

I don't think any of that makes up for being shut out of charge reactions, or unstoppable advance being limited to 1/turn, or not being able to mystic shield with nagash multiple times (for a while he seemed to almost maybe be worth his new near thousand point price, but between this latest nerf and the miscast rules I really can't see him being justified), and probably not being able to do so with arkhan either (yeah he is currently still allowed to multicast mystic shield, but I give that like a week, tops).

But yeah, not 100% terrible news, and probably not as bad a situation as slaanesh is in, but I do not hold out a lot of hope for this faction being particularly relevant in 3e.  That said, I've been super wrong many times before, and I've played exactly zero 3e games myself, so maybe, hopefully, I'm throwing a fit over nothing.  I won't be complaining if I end up with egg on my face over this.

Yeah.  I've played 2 games and it is different.  In my games the charge reactions hasn't been as huge as I thought they would be.  If our troops are really tough it can help with the Unleash Hell and we don't exactly have a lot of shooting right now. 

Arkhan being a hero and monster will be important as it allows him to access both sets of abilities.  It is another sneaky buff for him.

Lastly, I mentioned it before, but Bone-Tithe Shriekers are really, really good now.  Turning off rally, and especially inspiring presence is huge, not to mention they also add a +1 to hit.  Inspiring presence can be used by unit champions now and not being allowed to use it really hurts some armies.  Plus it's predatory so you can position it on your turn, then position it again on the next turn to help out again.  It's an upgraded Horrorghast, and the Horrorghast was already one of the best generic endless spells.