AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[JonnyTheKing]

5 hours ago, Gorthor21 said:

How do re rolls equate to more wounds?

You take the wound but ignore it, so essentially it is an extra wound, that is how I see it anyways

[CeleFAZE]

5 hours ago, carnith said:

So... We might have new cav. There's a video of a guy going through the new book. He skips the sybarites, but something gets spoiled. 

Interesting thing to note here is that it has the leader runemark, and has the same number of wounds as the leader version of a fiend. Ladies, gentlemen, and gentlefolk, I think this may have confirmed boobsnake cavalry. Also usually in warcry if there are two weapon options one of them is ranged, so either these are cavalry archers, or the potential boobsnake has a ranged attack of its own.

I'm super hyped.

[Enoby]

Something else interesting is that we have three pages of mortal stat pages from the video - even at 6 per page (which is the lowest I've seen), that's 18 units.

[CeleFAZE]

5 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Something else interesting is that we have three pages of mortal stat pages from the video - even at 6 per page (which is the lowest I've seen), that's 18 units.

Assuming we take the idea of smaller leader choices as options, we can at minimum assume the shardspeaker and lord of pain as part of the list. This leaves 16 choices. We already know the unit leaders of generally any given unit will be leader choices, and we have seen that the hellstriders are in the same section as the daemon units, so we can extrapolate up to 8 new units from this. So we have:

Painbringers

Twinsouls

Slaangors

Boobsnake archers

As our basically confirmed entries. We can maybe guess at:

Boobsnake melee cavalry

Spear dancers

Bowmen

??? - perhaps an alternate build for the slaangors, evidence of 2 more small hero choices, or maybe blank space on the page (the three above look like they could have blank margin underneath.)

This would give us a fully fleshed out release, even before adding in what that big thing is in the background of the promo video stills.

[Silphid]

That spoiled picture shows that on the opposite page are abilities, not models. That makes 2 pages of models, between 6 and 7 per page as the right row has 3, it couldn,t be 8 per page. So 12 to 14 units total. I hate to be a party pooper, but the first page is leader versions, and as I see it the second one are 6 or 7 new models.

-twinsouls

-painbringers

-slaangors

-(speculative) bow infantry

-(speculative) spear infantry

-  this “seeker” cavalry

-potential for one more unit on the page.

interestingly, a new faction symbol implies they a separate group and not directly an add-on to hedonites/daemons of slaanesh. Wonder if in AoS terms it implies it’s onw stand alone group, which can ally with daemons of slaanesh, in the same fashion as warcry...

[Enoby]

36 minutes ago, Silphid said:

interestingly, a new faction symbol implies they a separate group and not directly an add-on to hedonites/daemons of slaanesh. Wonder if in AoS terms it implies it’s onw stand alone group, which can ally with daemons of slaanesh, in the same fashion as warcry...

I'd hope that they have the Slaanesh keyword at least - and taking a guess from the Underworld's warband they'll have the Hedonite keyword too. I think this keyword will be more akin to 'Rotbringer' - they're still Nurgle, but may benefit from different buffs.

[Carnith]

even if they are sybarites, they will still be slaanesh and can be played within out hosts. But at most this distinction is Rotbringers vs nurgle. Both still nurgle, but rotbringers is the mortal names. Sybarites will just be our mortal specific side. 

So right now, we have at least 6 leaders. 
Lord of Pain
Shardspeaker
myrmadesh leader
Twinsoul Leader
Whatever is the 35 wound leader, and possibly if we have a chaff unit, their leaders. this puts us at 6-7.
This means we probably don't have a slaangor hero and they are just a unit. 

Overall, we will definitely find out by friday, or if spoils come out before hand. Someone might accidentally break NDA. 

[Gorthor21]

Most likely it’s just the mortal keyword like bloodbound, arcanites, and rotbringers.  I assume it sybarite but who’s to tell at this point.  The seeker model is going to be interesting for sure.

[Carnith]

I'm wondering if we will see the model within a day or two as GW goes "Well ****** someone's seen it... time to show case it"

[Silphid]

1 hour ago, carnith said:

I'm wondering if we will see the model within a day or two as GW goes "Well ****** someone's seen it... time to show case it"

The video this picture is from mentions the he’s been asked not to show the pages yet. As he passed through the pages he (un)accidentally shows a bit of 2 pages.  Don’t think GW will see as spoiling it, but I am sure whatever is in the warcry book was planned to be shown this week already. Looking forward to it!

[Golub87]

Has anyone here experimented with Anvil of Apotheosis?

I have been looking into it and it seems that a good option for us would be a dirt cheap commander hero with +1 armor save CA and an extra CP at the start of the game. That should be 90pts without any stat upgrades or fancy weapons.

[Silphid]

14 hours ago, Golub87 said:

Has anyone here experimented with Anvil of Apotheosis?

I have been looking into it and it seems that a good option for us would be a dirt cheap commander hero with +1 armor save CA and an extra CP at the start of the game. That should be 90pts without any stat upgrades or fancy weapons.

I ran a league with Apotheosis. Its fun but it allows you to circumvent inherent flaws or difficulties in armies, to the point where these heroes really can take centerstage. Essentially, have fun with it you will not find a stronger unit in your army for the points than the one youcustom-build for it. But remember it is not meant for match play and can really unbalance it.

[AngryPanda]

I noticed some mention regarding on the Warcry leak that the faction symbol for the new Slaanesh mortals is different from Slaanesh Daemons. I found this on the GW website for the description for the preorder: it looks like the additional faction keyword is going to be Sybarites. 
 

I also agree that this is in parallel with the other god-specific Chaos factions, and that Sybarites is going to be our new mortal keyword. However, the overlap of our new mortal units with the current daemon range in terms of buffing and synergy remains in question. 
 

I’m not sure about Tzeentch and Nurgle, but I know that Khorne has a deep distinction between Bloodbound, mortal, and daemon units. Perhaps the update/new battletome is going to be a large rework of our synergy capabilities? I can see certain buffs and auras becoming restricted, such as a KoS only buffing other daemons, but hopefully spell-based abilities will be able to support all units.

Edited December 7, 2020 by AngryPanda

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, AngryPanda said:

I’m not sure about Tzeentch and Nurgle, but I know that Khorne has a deep distinction between Bloodbound, mortal, and daemon units. Perhaps the update/new battletome is going to be a large rework of our synergy capabilities? I can see certain buffs and auras becoming restricted, such as a KoS only buffing other daemons, but hopefully spell-based abilities will be able to support all units.

This is a good point; for now, the KoS will likely effect the mortals as they'll almost certainly have the hedonite keyword. However, this may not stay if the KoS gets a warscroll update. 

I personally hope the buffs remain cross faction for bigger models (like the KoS as it's a centerpiece for Slaanesh in general), but if a smaller daemon gets  a command ability then I expect it to only help daemons. Tbh, I'd like to see more Slaanesh command abilities in general. 

The more I think about it, the more I think our battletome just needs a rethink with all of the erratas and new models it has, as well as the current rules discouraging our new troops being taken as they're not heroes.

[Golub87]

6 hours ago, Silphid said:

I ran a league with Apotheosis. Its fun but it allows you to circumvent inherent flaws or difficulties in armies, to the point where these heroes really can take centerstage. Essentially, have fun with it you will not find a stronger unit in your army for the points than the one youcustom-build for it. But remember it is not meant for match play and can really unbalance it.

Care to share what you made? It seems to me that efficient combat heroes are very hard to make without being quite over-costed.

[Klamm]

Looking at that new seeker unit Warcry card, the unit looks lightly armoured, perhaps mounted versions of the those veiled warriors in direchasm.

Makes me wonder how they'll be mechanically distinct from Hellstriders. The fact they have bows, I suppose, though if there's a dual kit melee variant they will distinguish them somehow.

Hellstriders are comparatively armoured and bulky, so maybe they get their rules reworked to be tankier?

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, Klamm said:

Looking at that new seeker unit Warcry card, the unit looks lightly armoured, perhaps mounted versions of the those veiled warriors in direchasm.

Makes me wonder how they'll be mechanically distinct from Hellstriders. The fact they have bows, I suppose, though if there's a dual kit melee variant they will distinguish them somehow.

Hellstriders are comparatively armoured and bulky, so maybe they get their rules reworked to be tankier?

I'm hoping, if Marauders are equivalent to our Chaos Knights (just faster and fewer wounds), then perhaps these will be equivalent to Varanguard. 

I suppose a good question would be, how much (if at all) do Warcry wounds relate to AoS wounds. For example, does a 35 wound model in Warcry tend to be a 5 wound model in AoS, or is it just random?

[CeleFAZE]

33 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I'm hoping, if Marauders are equivalent to our Chaos Knights (just faster and fewer wounds), then perhaps these will be equivalent to Varanguard. 

I suppose a good question would be, how much (if at all) do Warcry wounds relate to AoS wounds. For example, does a 35 wound model in Warcry tend to be a 5 wound model in AoS, or is it just random?

Sort of. Warcry kinda takes some liberties with the way it does wounds, since they have that increased measure of granularity. So generally you see things like leaders on monstrous cavalry, like eels at around 35, which have 4 wounds, and you also have the leader fiend at 35. However the leader crypt horror has 40 wounds, despite also being 4 wounds in AoS, and you also have things like the orruk brutes, which have 35 wounds despite being 3 wounds in AoS. So generally it mostly works out to 35-40 for a leader is a 4ish wound model, but it's not a hard and fast rule. For comparison the seeker and hellstrider champs are both 30.

[Gorthor21]

Maybe it’s like the eel riders with four wounds but with a lower save to keep up with the lightly armored slaanesh rule of thumb.  Though the new elite units break the mold on that so I guess we will see.  
I think people here have already guessed it right being a light cavalry unit on either a seed of slaanesh or whatever the daemons mount for slaanesh is called.  Boobsnake I guess though Morathi took that and ran with it full tilt.

[Lucentia]

Bear in mind Warcry has no armour saves or anything like that, the only defensive stat in the game is the number of wounds so it has to be a pretty flexible number.

It is pretty strange to me to see what is apparently a new mortal cavalry model, I would guess it's a new sculpt for Hellstriders to replace the ugly old models, but as they were included in Shadow and Pain that seems unlikely, then my second guess would be some sort of flying unit which Hedonites don't have access to currently, but it doesn't have the flying icon for Warcry, so I guess that's not it either...

[Gorthor21]

10 minutes ago, Lucentia said:

Bear in mind Warcry has no armour saves or anything like that, the only defensive stat in the game is the number of wounds so it has to be a pretty flexible number.

It is pretty strange to me to see what is apparently a new mortal cavalry model, I would guess it's a new sculpt for Hellstriders to replace the ugly old models, but as they were included in Shadow and Pain that seems unlikely, then my second guess would be some sort of flying unit which Hedonites don't have access to currently, but it doesn't have the flying icon for Warcry, so I guess that's not it either...

After looking at it for a few minutes at the steeds of slaanesh I have to agree that they are probably just another unit of mortals mounted on them like hellstriders.  The frill that’s visible on the left side of the small picture of the new unit entry looks like the frills from the other steeds of slaanesh units.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Gorthor21
Pictures

[Carnith]

we know hellstriders are still in the book for warcry for both mortals and daemons. You can see them as the reviewer changes the page. As for faction symbols it is purely going to be for warcry. In aos, there isn't a "Khorne mortals only" and "Khorne Daemons only", it's just a Khorne army. Sure there might be some keywords like "only Hedonite Mortals" but we should be used to that with things that have daemon keyword tag.

[Enoby]

Perhaps a redesign of this mount? It would seem a bit silly to have two mortal units of seekers, and they'r risk undercutting themselves if people can very easily convert up from the likely cheaper Hellstriders.

[Carnith]

Perhaps we are getting a unit of snakes like the old lord on mount? OR maybe its coming back? That would be an amazing way to keep the old aesthetic. 

[CeleFAZE]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

Perhaps a redesign of this mount? It would seem a bit silly to have two mortal units of seekers, and they'r risk undercutting themselves if people can very easily convert up from the likely cheaper Hellstriders.

This is exactly the "boobsnake" I was referring to (a totally scientific and not at all reductive term I swear ;)) in my predictions for what I think these are. I would imagine it's going to be a dual-kit with an option for archers, which is what we're seeing in that accidental image. However, there is another possibility in that they could have very long whips which have a ranged profile, but I'd put my bet down for archers. I think the heads on the newer models are being tied in with the frills/spikes/fins paradigm we have with the seeker mounts and fiends, which explains the bit we see of the mount there.

Also, it bears mentioning that there is artwork used in the current Hedonites book where this old mounted lord model makes an appearance. I imagine they'd jump on the opportunity to bring back an iconic design and reuse some phenomenal artwork at the same time.

I also occurs to me that caster-types generally get a ranged weapon as opposed to spells in Warcry, so the other possibility is that these are monstrous cavalry caster unit.

Edited December 7, 2020 by CeleFAZE