Let's Chat Thundrik's Profiteers

[PlasticCraic]

How cool do these guys look!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/04/17/warband-focus-thundriks-profiteers/

[zombiepiratexxx]

When the season 2 warbands were revealed I was super-excited about the Sylvaneth one, but, honestly they just don't do it for me models wise like I thought they would. HOWEVER! I never expected to be excited about the Dwarves and I am! They look great and seem like they'll have an interesting playstyle. 

[PlasticCraic]

Can You Roll a Crit has his warband review up, check it out and get keen!

https://canyourollacrit.com/2019/04/20/thundriks-profiteers/#more-3040

[Requizen]

Now that we have the cards, it's much easier to form an opinion. 

Fighter cards tell the first story. Reliable Ranged damage + Drakkskewer paints a picture of a warband that wants to zone, poke, and then go in for the kill with Balloonbro. Two fighters with 3 Hex, 2 Smash, 2 Damage (when Inspired) attacks is pretty bonkers compared to what current ranged warbands have. Wizards can get to a similar profile when inspired, though they don't benefit from certain boosts (Support, Attack Dice buffs, etc), and is usually only one model that gets to such a profile. 

The Inspire mechanic really wants you to have Score Immediately cards - as if they aren't already good enough. And there are plenty that score quite easily for this warband - having ranged fighters with natural Cleave and Knockback, What Armor? and Get Thee Hence are probably easy additions to every deck. With the fact that you're more chip damage and spacing than turbo-murder, Martyred is quite nice, though you have only one model that you're ok losing. 

The main downside being that most Score Immediately cards are generally 1 Glory (or at least, all the ones worth taking are), and they don't seem to be super good at Objectives that give multiple Glory. They could include things like Supremacy/OOWO/Search The City or Keep Chopping, since they can position and still attack, but those have some anti-synergy with most Immediate cards (and potentially with each other). 

There's plenty of argument to be made for playing these guys control-focused. Not necessarily passive like old Stormcast, but focusing heavily on position, denying charges/objectives, and specific enemy focus. Cards like Toxic Gases and Seek the Skyvessel allow you to control positioning and create good damage setups. There is of course the danger that these guys become a very passive, unfun faction to play against, but I think with their low move and relative squishiness any player that focuses on that will die super hard to fast aggro. 

In fact, fast aggro is pretty much going to wreck this warband unless you're particularly careful in positioning and Ploy setup. I want to run them a couple times, but I feel like Ploys that give extra mobility, limit enemy mobility, and create space will be the keys for these guys to succeed. 

[Intrinsic]

My local monthly is on Saturday, my main competition has proposed a day 1 challenge.  We both play one of the new warbands, no practice beforehand. I insisted we also not be able to get the models until just before the tournament, even though playing with unpainted models drives me nuts. We flipped for warband, I came away with Profiteers. So here's what I'm thinking, comments appreciated:

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,318,327,331,348,N248,N250,360,N461,369,N245,243,N235,N238,292,N239,N309,N302,L24,N319,N385,272,N322,N476,N529,N499,N550,N503,N252,N254,N256,N480,376

 

[belly318]

I'm painting the Profiteers for an event this coming weekend, and i'm working on the decklist.

One objective i'm torn on, if Keep Chopping. Given the abundance of Range 3 attacks, i'm draw towards it as a reliable objective. But is it as reliable as I think it is? 

Here's the deck as i've built it so far. I'll be culling the power cards down to 20, so some feedback on what to cut would be appreciated too.

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N338,N322,N385,N235,N237,N239,N357,272,291,243,N242,N245,N248,348,L38,349,N467,326,327,N420,N514,N529,N503,N550,N476,N501,424,N499,N309,N347,N256,N252,N461,331,376,369

 

[Anthony225]

2 hours ago, belly318 said:

I'm painting the Profiteers for an event this coming weekend, and i'm working on the decklist.

One objective i'm torn on, if Keep Chopping. Given the abundance of Range 3 attacks, i'm draw towards it as a reliable objective. But is it as reliable as I think it is? 

Here's the deck as i've built it so far. I'll be culling the power cards down to 20, so some feedback on what to cut would be appreciated too.

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N338,N322,N385,N235,N237,N239,N357,272,291,243,N242,N245,N248,348,L38,349,N467,326,327,N420,N514,N529,N503,N550,N476,N501,424,N499,N309,N347,N256,N252,N461,331,376,369

 

My deck idea is “similar” to yours. I do think “Keep Choppin” is a decent objective because you can position your fighters with movement ploys and then shoot as an attack action much easier with RNG 3 on everyone. Also charging is much easier with RNG 3 as you can threaten longer distances.

one idea I had was using “Total Offense” as your fighters are more likely to be in a position to make an attack action without charging, especially with all the movement plots and RNG 3 galore. 

Move chosen “shining example” over “fired up”  as Thundrik will be the first to inspire most likely anyway. And it frees up a restricted slot. 

I would maybe get rid of “prepared position” as “inspired command” does the same thing with the added option of pushing a friendly fighter. 

My “super secret tech” idea was to use “toxic gases, distraction, invisible walls, shattering terrain, and Knockback” to keep the enemy at bay while I shoot them to death. 

Also, I’m not sure about “empowered aethershot”, I personally think the warband has enough cleave on its own. 

 

[Anthony225]

On 4/24/2019 at 7:50 PM, Intrinsic said:

My local monthly is on Saturday, my main competition has proposed a day 1 challenge.  We both play one of the new warbands, no practice beforehand. I insisted we also not be able to get the models until just before the tournament, even though playing with unpainted models drives me nuts. We flipped for warband, I came away with Profiteers. So here's what I'm thinking, comments appreciated:

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,318,327,331,348,N248,N250,360,N461,369,N245,243,N235,N238,292,N239,N309,N302,L24,N319,N385,272,N322,N476,N529,N499,N550,N503,N252,N254,N256,N480,376

 

How did it go?

[belly318]

56 minutes ago, Anthony225 said:

My deck idea is “similar” to yours. I do think “Keep Choppin” is a decent objective because you can position your fighters with movement ploys and then shoot as an attack action much easier with RNG 3 on everyone. Also charging is much easier with RNG 3 as you can threaten longer distances.

one idea I had was using “Total Offense” as your fighters are more likely to be in a position to make an attack action without charging, especially with all the movement plots and RNG 3 galore. 

Move chosen “shining example” over “fired up”  as Thundrik will be the first to inspire most likely anyway. And it frees up a restricted slot. 

I would maybe get rid of “prepared position” as “inspired command” does the same thing with the added option of pushing a friendly fighter. 

My “super secret tech” idea was to use “toxic gases, distraction, invisible walls, shattering terrain, and Knockback” to keep the enemy at bay while I shoot them to death. 

Also, I’m not sure about “empowered aethershot”, I personally think the warband has enough cleave on its own. 

 

Total Offense is a good pick, but I don't like the restrictions on it. Seems like an upgrade that will get ignored often. I'd chosen to ignore both Fired up and Shining Example, mostly because I need to score objectives to get guys inspired, it's a cart before horse scenario - and I didn't like the feeling of it.

Taking both guard ploys was a deliberate move. It increases the chances of having one in hand when I draw Change of Tactics, and with the focus on keepng Thundrik alive, Inspired Command will infrequently be a dead draw. Plus, it's always a push ploy on the side.

I did think of the movement shenanigans deck, but chose to focus on objectives from attacking, and increasing their reliability (various +dice and reroll power cards), over it. I felt that tech'ing that way was too focused on anti-aggro, and the Profiteers should focus on;

Score objectives to inspire fighters to score move objectives to get more glory to win games

I'd done some refining of the deck, and landed on this;

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N338,N322,N385,N235,N237,N239,N357,272,291,243,N245,N248,348,L38,349,N467,327,N420,N514,N529,N503,N550,N476,N501,424,N499,N309,N347,N252,N461,331,376

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by belly318

[Anthony225]

42 minutes ago, belly318 said:

Total Offense is a good pick, but I don't like the restrictions on it. Seems like an upgrade that will get ignored often. I'd chosen to ignore both Fired up and Shining Example, mostly because I need to score objectives to get guys inspired, it's a cart before horse scenario - and I didn't like the feeling of it.

Taking both guard ploys was a deliberate move. It increases the chances of having one in hand when I draw Change of Tactics, and with the focus on keepng Thundrik alive, Inspired Command will infrequently be a dead draw. Plus, it's always a push ploy on the side.

I did think of the movement shenanigans deck, but chose to focus on objectives from attacking, and increasing their reliability (various +dice and reroll power cards), over it. I felt that tech'ing that way was too focused on anti-aggro, and the Profiteers should focus on;

Score objectives to inspire fighters to score move objectives to get more glory to win games

I'd done some refining of the deck, and landed on this;

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N338,N322,N385,N235,N237,N239,N357,272,291,243,N245,N248,348,L38,349,N467,327,N420,N514,N529,N503,N550,N476,N501,424,N499,N309,N347,N252,N461,331,376

 

Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m regards to “total offense”, and the errata, wouldn’t you get the +2 dice for an activation and also potentially cards such as ready for action or stand and shoot?

that’s “potentially” 3 attacks in one round with +2 dice right?

[belly318]

2 minutes ago, Anthony225 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m regards to “total offense”, and the errata, wouldn’t you get the +2 dice for an activation and also potentially cards such as ready for action or stand and shoot?

that’s “potentially” 3 attacks in one round with +2 dice right?

Yes for Stand and Shoot, as that occurs DURING an activation. No for Ready for Action, as that would occur in the power step, and hence not during an activation. But if you did that, you can no longer activate the fighter regularly.  So you can Activate, use total offense and attack. Then when your opponent charges the same fighter, you may make an attack action with +2. 

[Anthony225]

2 minutes ago, belly318 said:

Yes for Stand and Shoot, as that occurs DURING an activation. No for Ready for Action, as that would occur in the power step, and hence not during an activation. But if you did that, you can no longer activate the fighter regularly.  So you can Activate, use total offense and attack. Then when your opponent charges the same fighter, you may make an attack action with +2. 

Errata reads:

(Errata update) When this fighter makes their first Attack action in an activation or power step (other than an Attack action made as part of a Charge action), you can choose for that Attack action to have +2 Dice. If you do, this fighter cannot be activated again this phase

so it seems “ready for action” would also work as it refers to power step as well as an activation? 

Seems that the only real limitations are you can only:

“activate the fighter once”,

“only applies to first attack action in any activation or power step”,

“and can’t charge and use it” 

[belly318]

Ahh, missed that bit.

It's still terribly worded, and seems like it would generate disputes.

[Intrinsic]

17 hours ago, Anthony225 said:

How did it go?

2nd place to Cursebreakers. Lost 0-2 with my opponent getting off Last Chance and Rebound both games. I can live with Last Chance, but Rebound can burn. 

Toxic Gases is OP. Needs to be in every deck. My opponents took the 1 damage every single time, they were afraid of what I was trying to set up with the push. My Orc opponent even killed his own Gurzag because he was afraid I was setting up Victorious Duel. 

The Seek the City/Supremacy package was pretty easy to score, Blessing of Hydragos on Ironhail to set up 2 hex pushes allows him to really maneuver around the board, even if he's doing minimal damage. 

[Requizen]

Got in a couple practice games last night. I think these guys are super strong, at least in many matchups. With some reasonable Score Immediately cards, you can inspire everyone pretty quickly and then just play zoning game. Tundrik is such a beast himself, tanky as all get out and a solid shooting attack, with just a couple upgrades he can go from "solid ranged threat" to "absolute terror".

[grimgold]

Just got in two game with them, and it was fun. First was against mollogs, Mollog was dead first activation of round three, which was the last of his fighters, but he managed a sneaky win with "He was there the whole time" on stalgsquig, which got him a couple of clutch VP, and the final score was 10 - 9 in his favor. Second match was against the briar queen, and there was a lot of back and forth, he had two left at the end, score was 10-10 and I won on tie breaker.

Things I noticed, don't underestimate the damage, mollog went from full health to a point away from death in a single round, that was with only three of my guys shooting at him.  knockback 1 on a guy who gets to shoot twice is hilarious, if the dice hadn't betrayed me I would have pushed someone clean off of my board from the second row. So much cleave which helped against mollog, but did nothing against the ghosts. I didn't really notice the short movement, since they have great threat ranges the two move never really bothered me.

The inspiration is easy enough that "heroes all" almost seems reasonable in the deck, in both games I had everyone inspired by the end of turn two. Headshot is basically free glory and inspiration. I'll post More thoughts as they come up.

[riddlesworth]

Hello folks,

 

Been a Guardians player since release. Thought I wasn't half bad with them but my last tournament showing demonstrated that Mollog is not my boi.

 

Thinking of either going old school with Reavers for the spike damage, or picking up Profiteers because I think they actually seem to play quite well into Mollog.

Looking at this deck to start:

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,249,361,N499,P32,331,332,N385,N322,N255,N235,N529,N254,N253,369,N436,P36,257,P57,N302,N310,P20,P48,N250,N248,N476,N501,N503,306,N305,P19,348,P54

 

There's a chance of bricking the opening hand with any combination of Escalation, Victory after Victory, Combination Strike and Denial. But any other objective thrown in there will give me a chance to get the ball rolling.

 

Thoughts?

 

[Skyeline]

I do think that the risk of Denial clogging up your other cards is pretty notable, even outside of the opening hand. Drawing it in turn 1 or 2 isn't just frustrating for lack of pulling something you can't utilize yet, but also because it will hurt Victory After Victory and Combination strike.

I'd lean on putting something more low-risk in it's place, though it will lower the overall glory potential of your objective deck. Shining Example or Master of War come to mind as low risk examples that don't force you to land deathblows. Another small bonus is that they can also contribute to VaV during any end phase rather than Denial only playing nicely with VaV in the third.

Overall though I like the look of it. You've got extra redundancies on all of your riskiest conditional objectives (Get Thee Hence, Cover Ground, Shortcut) and the rest of the gear/gambit selection looks good. Ancestral Might is iffy for me since it might as well be a Drakkskewer specific upgrade, but I can see your deck leaning on him making plays given all the movement shenanigans that you're packing.

 

[riddlesworth]

16 hours ago, Skyeline said:

I do think that the risk of Denial clogging up your other cards is pretty notable, even outside of the opening hand. Drawing it in turn 1 or 2 isn't just frustrating for lack of pulling something you can't utilize yet, but also because it will hurt Victory After Victory and Combination strike.

I'd lean on putting something more low-risk in it's place, though it will lower the overall glory potential of your objective deck. Shining Example or Master of War come to mind as low risk examples that don't force you to land deathblows. Another small bonus is that they can also contribute to VaV during any end phase rather than Denial only playing nicely with VaV in the third.

Overall though I like the look of it. You've got extra redundancies on all of your riskiest conditional objectives (Get Thee Hence, Cover Ground, Shortcut) and the rest of the gear/gambit selection looks good. Ancestral Might is iffy for me since it might as well be a Drakkskewer specific upgrade, but I can see your deck leaning on him making plays given all the movement shenanigans that you're packing.

 

I don't mind drawing it turn 2 - it's the same challenge you have with Superior Tactition. To avoid the turn 1 brick hand, I may actually swap out Victory after Victory for Death from Afar, so the only possible brick combo is Denial, Combination Strike and Escalation. At which point I'd cycle Denial with my first activation and get rolling from there. 16 glory is nervy with the amount of passive scoring out there right now but with the inspire condition being what it is, this warband leans heavily into the score immediately meta. Tome of Offerings could help but that's another restricted slot. I see dropping Illusory Fighter for Shadowed Step (that still scores Shortcut) but Illusory Fighter is just so good. I'll need to get some reps in.

 

You're right that I'll be leaning on Drakkskewer to make plays. Spectral Wings or Augmented Buoyancy for Cover Ground, Illusory Fighter and Duardin Resilience for the charge deep into enemy territory then either pulling back to safety or being safe from the reprise attack. If Drakkskewer can assassinate a key model end of Turn 1, I'm more comfortable using Thundrik and Lund in more advanced positions. And specifically in the Mollog matchup - Drakkskewer is the one to pull off the single activation kill with Ready for Action. I have 2 re-roll mechanics that can be used with range 1 or 2 weapons, so maybe I could find room for a weapon upgrade like Nullstone Spear so that if Drakkskewer dies early I don't have 2 dead cards in the upgrade deck.

[Skyeline]

Well I was going to reply earlier today and then realized the updated BAR makes it all a wash anyways.

Back to the drawing board on loads of cards in my Thundrik deck as well. 

[riddlesworth]

Same situation, with Thundriks, Guardians and Goblins! Does make deckbuilding more engaging though, and I'm not sorry to see some of those cards go.

 

Rebuilt the Thundriks based on new BAR. Still wanting to avoid bricking in the first turn objective hand so I added Seeking Advancement and Sound Finances. Without Escalation, Sound Finances is a very solid score in this deck and could be done in Round 1 at a push. As good as Upper Hand is, Fuelled by Fury is an adequate replacement and I love all 3 of my restricted gambits for damage, action economy and movement. Losing Spirit Bond hurts but Bag of Tricks has some really good utility and once Drakkskewer has scored Cover Ground, unless I'm facing multiple 4 health fighters, he's not as important. Rapid Reload is still great for the chance at scoring Headshot

 

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,291,N305,N235,N239,P19,249,N385,N322,N309,P32,331,N436,361,N499,327,348,N248,N250,N461,N253,N254,N255,N260,N501,N503,N529,P54,P20,332,N477,P36,N240
 

Edited August 12, 2019 by riddlesworth

[Anthony225]

I've seen people choosing Archer's Focus instead of Awakened Weapon for the Profiteers, even after the most recent BAR list restricting Archers Focus. I don't get it, isn't Archer's focus objectively worse than Awakened weapon in regards to the Profiteers? Or am i not seeing something? 

[WathLab]

Maybe for lore reasons, or simply because of inertia ?  Or net-decking from old sources ?

Edited August 11, 2019 by WathLab

[riddlesworth]

I would guess that it's a holdover from before the most recent BAR list as they are functionally exactly the same for everyone in Thundrik's except Drakkskewer. It would be a bit of a struggle right now to include either Archer's Focus or Awakened Weapon with all the good restricted cards for a Thundrik list. With access to Prized Vendetta and Paymaster, you can go without them - but they are worthwhile.

 

On that note...I got 6 games in last week with my post BAR deck. It flows very nicely - there is a single first round objective brick (Sound Finances, Combination Strike, Superior Tactician) that only requires a single activation to fix (cycle Sound Finances), there's only 2 cards requiring a kill (death from afar, seeking advancement), everything else is either passive movement based scores (shortcut, cover ground) or having the ability to make a successful attack (headshot, get thee hence, what armour). Warning Shot plays better into my gameplan than Change of Tactics and I was happy with that swap.

There's only 2 cards that are on the bubble for me after this - (Pit) Trap and Bag of Tricks. I'm using Pit Trap over Trap because I have an alt art, but I only need 1-2 kills to actually score out my objective deck and (Pit) Trap does not help score Death from Afar, so I found myself either holding it too long, using it to get a kill when I wasn't holding one of my kill objectives or just using it as throwaway extra damage. I felt, weirdly, that I didn't NEED (Pit) Trap to achieve my goals, which I shouldn't feel about a restricted card. What was more needed was accuracy cards. Rolling a single crit when Headshot is in hand and then seeing a Crit defence is devastating, as is failing 3 attacks with Lund that will also score Death from Afar. So I may drop for an accuracy buff. On Bag of Tricks - it's so valuable to be able to spend an activation to draw the card you need rather than hoping for it, but I found with the redundancy i'd built into the deck and the way I drew my cards, I didn't need it. It's like a security blanket and I'll bet that as soon as I cut it is when I have draw issues...

 

So, obvious swap for (Pit) Trap is Upper Hand - it's the best accuracy card in the game. However, potential swaps for Bag of Tricks include the aforementioned Awakened Weapon and Archer's Focus - which would be one solution to the accuracy issue and leave me a ploy spot for something like Distraction, which is always useful, or Rebound, because I hate myself and my opponents. Paymaster keeps whispering to me too...

 

EDIT:  current deck for reference

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,291,N305,N235,N239,P19,249,N385,N322,N309,P32,331,361,N499,327,348,N248,N250,N461,N253,N254,N255,N260,N501,N503,N529,P54,P20,332,N477,P36,N240,P48

Edited August 13, 2019 by riddlesworth

[riddlesworth]

Tourname t report for pre rotation is pointless so....

 

Beastgrave is here. Rotation has happened and the rumour is Thundriks will fall down the pecking order because the score immediately meta is dead. Time to test that.

First draft: https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,N235,P19,N385,N322,N499,N248,N250,N461,N254,N255,N260,N503,N529,P20,P36,N240,P48,N302,N444,P47,N476,N310,N374,N237,N238,N319,N401,N446,P21,N493,N242,N253

 

Played a best of 3 set against Skaeth's Hunt and a mirror against profiteers.

 

All 5 games were pretty tight. We found that with the reduced number of surge cards, scoring overall was slower and snowballing was likely likely to happen. Without any objective based on kills, the movement tech in the power deck was awesome. I won both best of 3 sets but glory difference was less than 7 in both cases..

Ancestral might and 2 steps forward were the only 2 cards that I didnt feel great on. Quickening graves might make an appearance, although blessing of hydragos also has potential because duellist speed and disciplined retreat made big differences for me in both sets.

Edited October 4, 2019 by riddlesworth