AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[fishwaffle2232]

@Skreech Verminking just as a final post on the topic, It really does sound like perhaps there are more expectations to play exactly to RAW compared to here. It is unfair to judge you so harshly based on that.

My approach, if I was in a similar situation, would be to just play the rules as I believe they should be according to the warscroll. If an opponent informed me that I should not play them that way and they shouldn't actually blow up, id probably chat with a TO. It seems unlikely in this situation, that a TO would come over to force me to play the RAW especially when the RAI is clearly lesser strength. Although, again, this is based off my experience in local tournaments. 

Anyway it's good to discuss this stuff I think, it shows how differently things can be interprete. It gives new players who might read this thread, a chance to make a decision on how to respond to shady rules writing.

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

TO. It seems unlikely in this situation, that a TO would come over to force me to play the RAW especially when the RAI is clearly lesser strength. Although, again, this is based off my experience in local tournaments. 

That is true in some circumstances.

I mean the rattling exploit can probably be amazing.

Yet I do have to say at least the skaven book (it is the book i’ve been taking a part like there was no tomorrow, does have a good amount of rules that should work as intended but doesn’t as written.

not being able to give your clawlord a command trait with the heroic action, to remove the chance of your opponents immune to battleshock aura, has been common.

And I’ve learned that many tournament player that at least I have met do sometimes come up with such strategies to give you that gotcha moment, when your idea was to use that allegiance ability yet it doesn’t work as written.

While some exploit can be a boost to your army or a specific list, it can also be a stomping nerf to other strategies or list that you have build.

the skaven are in this case pretty perfect, as we seem to have about 2thirds of the book that can be used against us, while 1 third of the book seems to be able to used in our favor.

3 hours ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

Anyway it's good to discuss this stuff I think, it shows how differently things can be interprete. It gives new players who might read this thread, a chance to make a decision on how to respond to shady rules writing.

It really was, I really enjoyed discussing it with you.

and as for the newer players seeing this poste, personally you should always ask yourself against who your playing how your opponent ticks and if you truly want to follow the rules as written. Is it a option, yes and one that those relatively often see the tournament scenario, at least at some (or the ones I’ve been to).

I personally wouldn’t use it in any friendly games, unless your opponent really inclines to use the rules as written for what ever reason he has.

[Tom youdale]

I have a tournament in a month or so and I’m stuck between two lists  Stuck between 2 lists (I don’t own any moulder or eshin) and wondered if people had any thoughts? I think the first list probably more aggressive but the second has less drops and could maybe score points better.

 

List 1

1 x Verminlord Warbringer (400)**

- General

- Command Traits: Devious Adversary

- Artefacts: Warpstone Charm

- Spells: Flaming Weapon

1 x Thanquol (430)**

- 2 x Warpfire Braziers

- 2 x Warpfire Projectors

- Spells: Death Frenzy

1 x Arch-Warlock (150)**

- Artefacts: Gryph-feather Charm

- Spells: Warp Lightning Shield

- Aspects of the Champion: Fuelled by Ghurish Rage

1 x Grey Seer (120)**

1 x Warlock Engineer (100)***

- Spells: More-more-more Warp Power!

 

5 x Skryre Acolytes (70)*

5 x Skryre Acolytes (70)*

20 x Clanrats (100)*

20 x Clanrats (100)**

20 x Clanrats (100)**

 

1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (150)***

1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (150)***

1 x Lauchon the Soulseeker (50)

 

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Galletian Sharpshooters

**Warlord

***Grand Battery

TOTAL POINTS: (1990/2000)

 

List 2

1 x Clawlord (110)*

1 x Arch-Warlock (150)*

- Artefacts: Gryph-feather Charm

- Spells: Warp Lightning Shield

- Aspects of the Champion: Fuelled by Ghurish Rage

1 x Verminlord Warbringer (400)*

- General

- Command Traits: Devious Adversary

- Artefacts: Warpstone Charm

- Spells: Flaming Weapon

1 x Thanquol (430)**

- 2 x Warpfire Braziers

- 2 x Warpfire Projectors

- Spells: Skitterleap

1 x Deathmaster (140)**

1 x Warlock Bombardier (110)**

- Spells: More-more-more Warp Power!

 

BATTLELINE

 

20 x Clanrats (100)*

20 x Clanrats (100)*

5 x Skryre Acolytes (70)*

40 x Clanrats (200)*

5 x Skryre Acolytes (70)*

 

1 x Lauchon the Soulseeker (50)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)**

 

*Battle Regiment

**Warlord

TOTAL POINTS: (1990/2000)

 

Sorry for the text dump!

[Skreech Verminking]

15 minutes ago, Tom youdale said:

I have a tournament in a month or so and I’m stuck between two lists  Stuck between 2 lists (I don’t own any moulder or eshin) and wondered if people had any thoughts? I think the first list probably more aggressive but the second has less drops and could maybe score points better.

 

List 1

1 x Verminlord Warbringer (400)**

- General

- Command Traits: Devious Adversary

- Artefacts: Warpstone Charm

- Spells: Flaming Weapon

1 x Thanquol (430)**

- 2 x Warpfire Braziers

- 2 x Warpfire Projectors

- Spells: Death Frenzy

1 x Arch-Warlock (150)**

- Artefacts: Gryph-feather Charm

- Spells: Warp Lightning Shield

- Aspects of the Champion: Fuelled by Ghurish Rage

1 x Grey Seer (120)**

1 x Warlock Engineer (100)***

- Spells: More-more-more Warp Power!

 

5 x Skryre Acolytes (70)*

5 x Skryre Acolytes (70)*

20 x Clanrats (100)*

20 x Clanrats (100)**

20 x Clanrats (100)**

 

1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (150)***

1 x Warp Lightning Cannon (150)***

1 x Lauchon the Soulseeker (50)

 

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Galletian Sharpshooters

**Warlord

***Grand Battery

TOTAL POINTS: (1990/2000)

 

List 2

1 x Clawlord (110)*

1 x Arch-Warlock (150)*

- Artefacts: Gryph-feather Charm

- Spells: Warp Lightning Shield

- Aspects of the Champion: Fuelled by Ghurish Rage

1 x Verminlord Warbringer (400)*

- General

- Command Traits: Devious Adversary

- Artefacts: Warpstone Charm

- Spells: Flaming Weapon

1 x Thanquol (430)**

- 2 x Warpfire Braziers

- 2 x Warpfire Projectors

- Spells: Skitterleap

1 x Deathmaster (140)**

1 x Warlock Bombardier (110)**

- Spells: More-more-more Warp Power!

 

BATTLELINE

 

20 x Clanrats (100)*

20 x Clanrats (100)*

5 x Skryre Acolytes (70)*

40 x Clanrats (200)*

5 x Skryre Acolytes (70)*

 

1 x Lauchon the Soulseeker (50)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)**

 

*Battle Regiment

**Warlord

TOTAL POINTS: (1990/2000)

 

Sorry for the text dump!

I would go for the first one.

that one unit of 40 clanrats will die as fast as any unit of 20 so reducing the amount of wounds on that unit would make them more efficient at dying.

yet the first list does seem pretty fun.

you could use the heroic action mighty warlord give your clawlord 2 extra attacks when he fights before another enemy units gets to fight in combat range and cast dreaded deathfrenzy on him.

he’ll be doing 8-9 attacks and when he dies another 13-14 attacks.

Which can be pretty devastating.

but that is up to you

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Tom youdale I'm happy you have Thanquol, he's still a beast, especially with people running more reinforced units. Personally I would go with the 1st one. This is more of a meta pick admittedly but it comes down to your inclusion of the lightning cannons. On average people are concentrating their forces to go low drops, more reinforced hammers and what not, while at the same time. The average number of objectives in this seasons scenarios has dropped to an average of 3. This implies way more action in the center of the board. The cannons are the type of power projection that could be useful when enemies are more likely to funnel into a particular area. 

Not to mention using a double Unleash Hell with Thanquol with the cannons is just hilarious. 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Tom youdale Also if you're ever self conscience text dumping your lists, a handy tip is to use the spoiler icon to make a collapsible text box for readers to use. Its the little eye symbol in the text editing options. 

[Skreech Verminking]

So my fellow backstabbing friends.

next week I’ll be attending at a relative good size torunament (24 people can take part at that event)

I’ve chosen to go with this list, just because I’ve poured a lot of love into my rattling gun weapon teams and intend to use them.

this will be a field day, at least for me-me.

Allegiance: Skaven
- Grand Strategy: The Day is Ours! - Triumphs: Inspired
LEADERS
Grey Seer (120)****
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Warlock Bombardier (110)****
- General
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! - Aspect of the Champion: Leadership of the Alpha
Warlock Bombardier (110)****
- Artefact: The Brass Orb
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Warlock Engineer (100)**
- Artefact: Vial of the Fulminator
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
UNITS
20 x Clanrats (100)***
- Rusty Blade
- 01 x Standard Bearers
- 01 x Standard Bell Ringers
5 x Skryre Acolytes (70)*** 5 x Skryre Acolytes (70)*** 1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)
1 x Ratling Gun (60)**** 1 x Ratling Gun (60)**** 1 x Ratling Gun (60)*
1 x Ratling Gun (60)*
1 x Ratling Gun (60)*
ARTILLERY
Warp Lightning Cannon (150)** Warp Lightning Cannon (150)** Warp Lightning Cannon (150)** ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
   Purple Sun of Shyish (90)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Galletian Sharpshooters **Grand Battery ***Galletian Veterans ****Warlord
ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS
  Triumph
 TOTAL: 2000/2000
LEADERS: 4/6
ARTEFACTS: 2/1 ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS: 1/3
REINFORCED UNITS: 0/4 DROPS: 23
BATTLELINES: 3 (3+)
BEHEMOTHS: 0/4
ARTILLERY: 3/4 ALLIES: 0/400
 

any thoughts?

[Lord Krungharr]

Oh me oh my!  That's absolute insanity, LOVE IT.  I wanna make that list now too.  I have everything but the Bombadier and 10 more Ratling Guns, and purple sun, and clanrats.  So really not even close.  But I've been so disappointed by my Doomwheels of late this will be a good thing to work towards (my Eshin alpha strike flubbed last night too 😛 )

Jaws of Gallet; I had Deceiver (Shadwomaster, Magnet Trinket, Flaming Weapon), Deathmaster, ArchWarlock w Resonator MMWP, Engineer w Levitate, 15 Acolytes, 15 Gutter Runners, 3x10 Night Runners, Vermintide, WLC, Doomwheel, 1 ratling gun. 

My opponent had Greyfyrd Fyreslayers for max artefacts: Runeson and Father (resolve rune for a one time 3+ ward save?!) Droths with coal heart and fireyoungblood traits, 2x10 HGBs w broadaxes, battlesmith with nulsididan icon, runemaster w volatile brazier, and runefathers 1 w big axe of grimnir, and 10 vulkite berzerkers, and the infernoth invocation.

I got priority and went first, and was way too aggressive, trying to This One's Mine his runemaster w the deceiver...who dreaded skiiterlept and then proceeded to fail 2 charge rolls.  Gutter Runners managed to kill 1 HGB next to the Runemaster....1!  Killed a couple Vulkites w other stuff, got 3 pts for objectives.  His runeson droth charged my Deceiver, but I struck first, got him down to 4 wounds left...but took 10 wounds from its lava blood plus normal strikes.  Deceive managed to kill the droth turn 2 w arcane bolt and doomstar/tails though, so avoided more blood.  But bottom of turn 1 he killed all the gutter runners w the fatherdroth and 2 units of night runners.

turn 2 I took priority again, got 1 objective point as he got rid of my backfield one for going 2nd, and I failed to kill his last monster with a Skryre unit, but killed it with my Deathmaster instead....shoulda gone for the easy Eye for an Eye.  Dang it.   He then killed my doomwheel and Arch Warlock, (WLC had already blown up itself after rolling a power level of 6, but still got enough MW on the droth to help out).  I had Deathmaster and 2 Acolytes left in the middle, Deceiver in the enemy zone.  Enginner was still in my zone behind a wall.

turn 3 I got priority again, he removed the objective by my Deceiver.  I ran my Engineer up for a Cunning Maneuver in the center, tried to shoot the Runefather w Acolytes and he lived, but the Deathmaster and Doomstar killed the Runemaster.  My Deceiver tried to take on the HGBs, but I forgot they have a CA to strike first from the army traits, so Deceiver got axed big time, though it was close, only failed 3 ward saves out of like 8 or 9  (he had the awakened enhanced steel rune for an extra rend-2 to all his weapons!).  So we walked through it and he ended up with 25 pts to my 8.

Lessons: can't be so aggressive w fragile cowardly rats, and assassins need to be choosy and focused with targets.  I should have given him 1st turn actually to move up towards me so more of my stuff could be in range all at once, and giving him speedbumps w Night Runners.  Not always good to skitterleap, especially with all kinda deadlies in range.  But at least he couldn't shoot my Deceiver w droth breath whilst I was within 1" of terrain, so that's a good CT!  Vermintide was super annoying but not quite annoying enough...I think Quicksilver Swords might be better (for lack of a purple sun).  Ignoring ward saves is very handy. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Lord Krungharr

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Skreech Verminking Wowsers. I wish I could be there at the beginning of each of your games when they ask you how many drops you are. 

Keep your Ratlings. They're great. You need one more screen though. Another thing about squishy skryre units is that they too are susceptible to shooting. Too solve both problems, I recommend night runners. Their pre-game move helps zone out those deepstrike armies wanting to get into your backlines, even if your opponent goes first which is your biggest weakness not controlling the turns. I've had many games protecting my artillery against stormcast and sylvaneth shooting with these bozos.

As a consequence, i recommend switching some heroes to deathmasters to unlock the batteline. Not to mention, they have more potential to survive hiding amongst troops while being faster, and you can only use warpsparks from one hero at a time so the uber redundancy can be pulled back a bit. Who knows? The eshin command traits// artifacts could add more utility.

You actually increase your shooting, especially if you just get rid of the clanrats for more eshin, and can double down on being a glass cannon. 

[Skreech Verminking]

15 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Skreech Verminking Wowsers. I wish I could be there at the beginning of each of your games when they ask you how many drops you are. 

Keep your Ratlings. They're great. You need one more screen though. Another thing about squishy skryre units is that they too are susceptible to shooting. Too solve both problems, I recommend night runners. Their pre-game move helps zone out those deepstrike armies wanting to get into your backlines, even if your opponent goes first which is your biggest weakness not controlling the turns. I've had many games protecting my artillery against stormcast and sylvaneth shooting with these bozos.

As a consequence, i recommend switching some heroes to deathmasters to unlock the batteline. Not to mention, they have more potential to survive hiding amongst troops while being faster, and you can only use warpsparks from one hero at a time so the uber redundancy can be pulled back a bit. Who knows? The eshin command traits// artifacts could add more utility.

You actually increase your shooting, especially if you just get rid of the clanrats for more eshin, and can double down on being a glass cannon. 

Drops how many you ask?

not enough in my opinion😂.

literally I don’ t really care about who takes the choice of the first or second turn.

I never really cared and having played aos for such a ling time I kinda know which army will want which turn against my army, giving me the opportunity to precisely deploy my units hidden or ready to shoot giving me an upper hand.

also having multiple rattling gun weapon teams makes it extremely hard to decide how you’re going to split up your fire, and that can be pretty difficult to do.

As for the list, I mean sure night runners are an option but, I don’t like the current models haven’t found a good proxie or conversion Idea I personally like and I just don’t see any reason of getting a warlock Bombardier rid for a lowly backstabbing eshin rat.

jingle bell jingle bell What more fun it is then not to slay-blow up your foe.

more fun then kill-backstabbing.

I want my enemies to fear-fear me-me. Not feel save till they get backstabbed in that one moment when their are not looking.

 

ps: also I’ve already send my list so changing anything will be very unlikely possible

Edited February 18, 2023 by Skreech Verminking

[Lord Krungharr]

He definitely has the perfect amount of ratling guns!  I tried screening with my Night Runners, but I think they actually shouldn't be too far out in front of everything all the time; guess like most games it depends on the mission and the enemy forces.

[Skreech Verminking]

On 2/18/2023 at 6:50 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

He definitely has the perfect amount of ratling guns!  I tried screening with my Night Runners, but I think they actually shouldn't be too far out in front of everything all the time; guess like most games it depends on the mission and the enemy forces.

I wouldn’t consider the nicht runners as a screen. At least not yet (maybe the next ko book will change that)

they are in my opinion more less a cheaper low wound hero snipers or are perfect for just keeping your enemies in theor territory 😂

and as for tomorrow.

So apparently you were able to issue a challenge and since I wasn’t the only skaven player on that tournament, my prowess must be shown, and thus a challenge I issued to the other skaven player attending the tournament.

will shall soon, soon see-see who is the better-best skaven player.

yes-yes.

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Skreech Verminking

[Skreech Verminking]

So after having had some fun with 13 rattling guns and being and to win 2 games out of 3 at a tournament.

I thought I’ll try something new out.

I believe we all know what the smash rat is, and l’emme tell you this, the suicide rat is better-best, Yes-yes

the suicide rat sqaud:

Army Faction: Skaven
    - Grand Strategy: Defend What’s Ours
    - Triumphs: Indomitable

LEADER

1 x Clawlord (110)*

1 x Clawlord (110)*

1 x Clawlord (110)*

1 x Grey Seer (120)**
    - Artefacts: Skavenbrew
    - Spells: Skitterleap

1 x Verminlord Warbringer (400)**
    - General
    - Command Traits: Devious Adversary
    - Artefacts: Warpstone Charm
    - Spells: Flaming Weapon

1 x Clawlord (110)**
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome
    - Spells: Flaming Weapon
    - Aspects of the Champion: Fuelled by Ghurish Rage

BATTLELINE

30 x Stormvermin (390)
    - Stormvermin Standard Bearer
    - Stormvermin Drummer
    - Fangleader

20 x Clanrats (100)
    - Clanrat Standard Bearer
    -  Clanrat Bell-ringer
    - Clawleader
    - Rusty Blade

20 x Clanrats (100)
    -  Clanrat Bell-ringer
    - Clawleader
    - Clanrat Standard Bearer
    - Rusty Blade

20 x Clanrats (100)
    -  Clanrat Bell-ringer
    - Clawleader
    - Clanrat Standard Bearer
    - Rusty Blade

ENDLESS SPELL

1 x Warp Lightning Vortex (80)

TERRAIN

1 x Gnawhole (0)

1 x Gnawhole (0)

1 x Gnawhole (0)

OTHER

1 x Doom-Flayer (60)*

1 x Doom-Flayer (60)*

1 x Doom-Flayer (60)**

1 x Doom-Flayer (60)**

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Warlord

**Warlord

TOTAL POINTS: (1970/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

before I explain what the idea behind this list is any thoughts?😋🤪

[Lord Krungharr]

That's a fantastic birthday surprise for everyone who fights against it!

[Skreech Verminking]

58 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

That's a fantastic birthday surprise for everyone who fights against it!

Yes-yes

[TheArborealWalrus]

I've had a love of clan Moulder since the old world. There's a builder league coming up and I was wondering how doomed I am with an almost entirely Moulder army? I wanted to center around mostly rat ogres. (I consider stormfiends to count as rat ogres)
What wisdom can the mighty-tough grey furs give me-me? 

[Skreech Verminking]

5 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

I've had a love of clan Moulder since the old world. There's a builder league coming up and I was wondering how doomed I am with an almost entirely Moulder army? I wanted to center around mostly rat ogres. (I consider stormfiends to count as rat ogres)
What wisdom can the mighty-tough grey furs give me-me? 

Very!

but that shouldn’t keep you away from the idea.

I would still try it out.

rat ogres are currently fine, and may not actually be such a bad unit,

using stormfiends as conversions may also be a great idea for some lovely looking models.

if you’ve got some arm bits from some ogors, rat ogors, bigger monstrous infantry, you’r probably  very likely going to be able to do some amazing conversion

 

[W1tchhunter]

29 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Very!

but that shouldn’t keep you away from the idea.

I would still try it out.

rat ogres are currently fine, and may not actually be such a bad unit,

using stormfiends as conversions may also be a great idea for some lovely looking models.

if you’ve got some arm bits from some ogors, rat ogors, bigger monstrous infantry, you’r probably  very likely going to be able to do some amazing conversion

 

No no, Hell-pits are the way to go, best unit in the book.....

 

 

 

😭😭😭😭😭

[Skreech Verminking]

26 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

No no, Hell-pits are the way to go, best unit in the book.....

 

 

 

😭😭😭😭😭

I do agree with you.

now if only it had 31 wounds

[TheArborealWalrus]

This is the list I was thinking of building towards. I like the small model count and raw face punching. Xp Objective capture struggle bus, but if they're dead, they can't contest.  We lost our competitive folk about 6 months ago so I'm not TOO worried. 

Weird question, but how are melee storm fiends?

1970pts, 135 wounds, 2 drops

Battalion 1:

Master moulder- catcher

3x6 giant rats

Battalion 2: 

Master moulder - whip, +1 to hit for pack units artifact

Greyseer - spell: death frenzy

Arch warlock - General, devious adversary, spell: more more warp power

2x4 rat ogres

2 rat ogres

1x6 stormfiends - 2 ratlings, 2 mortars, 

13 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

using stormfiends as conversions may also be a great idea for some lovely looking models.

if you’ve got some arm bits from some ogors, rat ogors, bigger monstrous infantry, you’r probably  very likely going to be able to do some amazing conversion

Don't give me ideas! XO    I'm still trying to finish painting my flesh eaters! XD I found some 3d prints that are pretty awesome. Trying to minimize my work with ... fewer conversions. ... Like heroes ... and armoring ... Aw hell, I'll probably make some. XP

[LeonBox]

12 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

This is the list I was thinking of building towards. I like the small model count and raw face punching. Xp Objective capture struggle bus, but if they're dead, they can't contest.  We lost our competitive folk about 6 months ago so I'm not TOO worried. 

Weird question, but how are melee storm fiends?

1970pts, 135 wounds, 2 drops

Battalion 1:

Master moulder- catcher

3x6 giant rats

Battalion 2: 

Master moulder - whip, +1 to hit for pack units artifact

Greyseer - spell: death frenzy

Arch warlock - General, devious adversary, spell: more more warp power

2x4 rat ogres

2 rat ogres

1x6 stormfiends - 2 ratlings, 2 mortars, 

Don't give me ideas! XO    I'm still trying to finish painting my flesh eaters! XD I found some 3d prints that are pretty awesome. Trying to minimize my work with ... fewer conversions. ... Like heroes ... and armoring ... Aw hell, I'll probably make some. XP

Your screens are made of paper obviously, but if you can dictate who goes first (which you have a good chance of doing) this list could do a lot of damage. 

I've actually heard of people running 3 Stormfiends with a melee profile recently. They're decently tanky with their wounds profile, but with fewer ways to buff than ranged ones (unless MM can affect them? Not sure on that one) I can't see them being as good. 

[Lord Krungharr]

Clan Eshin and Skryre tabled Lofnir Lodge on Sunday...one of the most satisfying victories ever!  Position Over Power.

He had a FatherDroth, SmiterDroth, SonDroth, 2x10 HGBs (1 of each type), another Runefather on foot, Battlesmith, and Runesmiter on foot.  He tunneled the foot smither w SonDroth and moved up the SmiterDroth to my right flank, and I moved my Deceiver (who failed Skitterleap) and all the 3x10 Night Runners, and also my Acolytes a bit.  Also my pair of lightning cannons took out the SonDroth, only 1 cannon exploded but had 1 for the power level, so totally worth it!  I did however forget to bring in my Night Runners so we decided they'd just come in turn 2 rather than after the fact.

He got priority turn 2 also, and charged his FatherDroth into my Deceiver, who struck first, did very little due to Coal Heart Ancient, and suffered 5 MW in return from lava blood.  Center Night Runners fled from battleshock, and I used a CP to keep the other unit from running due to 1 or 2 dead, the Deathmaster did a couple MW to the Droth after popping out.  On the other side, my Ratling Gun had gnawholed over in turn 1 failing to kill the Runesmiter on foot, and the SmiterDroth came out of the woods, smashed the gnawhole, killed the Night Runners over there, and the Ratling Gun too.  THEN I Skitterlept my Deceiver out of combat (was that legal I hope?!  thought it was), and brought him and Gutter Runners right next to the woods and Runesmiter on foot.  Acolytes ran forward and killed the FatherDroth handily w Warpspark and MMWP help from the Arch Warlock.  Deceiver and Gutter Runners put the hurt on the SmiterDroth, and the Deceiver took care of the footSmiter.

Then I got Priority and Gutter Runners plinked away at the back center HGBs whilst the left Night Runners and Deathmaster and Acolytes played cat and mouse with the other HGBs/Runefather.  Lost all those other Night Runners, but Deathmaster held and ended up killing the last of those Broadaxe HGBs.  The center poleaxe HGBs came forward to take on the Acolytes, successfully, and faced down (and killed) the Arch Warlock.  But the Deceiver (after finishing off the SmiterDroth) and the Gutter Runners swung around to finish all the HGBs and Battlesmith off as the Engineer gnawholed over to the enemy backfield objective to net me the tabling and the win!  Very exciting match. 

After my last loss vs Fyreslayers I sorely wanted to beat this army.  I liked the extra cannon over Doomwheels.  So much running and shooting is excellent, just wish Gutter/Night Runners could charge after doing so as well (though only the Gutter Runners would really be any good at combat).

I kinda wish I'd taken the Brass Orb, that woulda been fun to teleport the HGBs back into their zone and possibly make it so they couldn't, and just die.  Tough to pull off but that mission has a small tight zone.  Meh, always good to have a spare Warpspark though....

All his Fyreslayers were 'undead'.   Didn't realize they're all skeleton dwarves until late in the game !

[TheArborealWalrus]

On 3/13/2023 at 7:54 AM, LeonBox said:

(unless MM can affect them? Not sure on that one)

I believe it can. Doesn't specify a type of attack.

So I think I get how to use rat ogres. Tag team them with a moulder and rush forward. Preferably behind a screen. But how do you use stormfiends effectively? It's a lot of points with a very clear, "kill me first," sign on them. The shooting is also kind of short range too.

In my list they feel like a, "pick your poison," type unit. Get shot or get eaten. (Or shoot them both off before they reach you. Xp) Do people typically use a grinder weapons team to drop them in? Could I use the gnawholes for that? (So I can avoid breaking theme)

Speaking of, how do you use your gnawholes typically? Teleportation threat? Purely for the +1 to prayers/casts? Something beyond my comprehension? 

Sorry for all the questions. I'm just trying to wrap my head around some of the more nuanced concepts before I commit to the army fully.

[LeonBox]

57 minutes ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

I believe it can. Doesn't specify a type of attack.

So I think I get how to use rat ogres. Tag team them with a moulder and rush forward. Preferably behind a screen. But how do you use stormfiends effectively? It's a lot of points with a very clear, "kill me first," sign on them. The shooting is also kind of short range too.

In my list they feel like a, "pick your poison," type unit. Get shot or get eaten. (Or shoot them both off before they reach you. Xp) Do people typically use a grinder weapons team to drop them in? Could I use the gnawholes for that? (So I can avoid breaking theme)

Speaking of, how do you use your gnawholes typically? Teleportation threat? Purely for the +1 to prayers/casts? Something beyond my comprehension? 

Sorry for all the questions. I'm just trying to wrap my head around some of the more nuanced concepts before I commit to the army fully.

With Gnawholes, you generally want to castle up around one during deployment for your pluses to cast, chant, unbind and dispels. The other two can be deployed according to your opponent: a little forward if they're a castle, to force them to come forward if they want to shut them down, or in their backfield if they're elite and you want to force them to keep a unit back that could otherwise be doing damage to you. 

Either way, they should be placed in a way that makes them able to threaten objectives. And they should always make life harder for the opponent when it comes to shutting them down. 

[Lord Krungharr]

Gnawhole placement has also vexed me a bit.  Good advice!  Nurgle shut down both of my Gnawholes right away in that last game, and they are that Elite type.  But he did keep a whole unit of Blight Kings and his general back the whole game....but I should have placed that hole not near the objective.