AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[fishwaffle2232]

I've been playing around with list building lately to come up with some new list variations to my typical 6 stormfiend/jezzail lists. As anyone who plays stormfiends will know, the hardest thing with them is getting them in range to shoot what they need to. For me quite often the jezzails do the job of shooting until I can get a solid position for the stormfiends, and in some battleplans, it just takes too long. 

I have been thinking of dropping the stormfiends all together and instead taking 12 jezzails and 20 acolytes to try and replace the missing firepower.

The other thing I have been thinking about is using gnawholes to increase the turn 1 threat range of the jezzails so that they can hit almost anything on the board. This will require placing 1 gnawhole in my deployment and 1 on each board edge. The jezzails will then have the option of being thrown through and an engineer can be skitterleaped to provide warpstone. 

This is obviously a high risk play, as the jezzails are going to be out of position with an engineer. This brings me to my next option, a warpgrinder team with clanrats. After throwing the jezzails forward, the warpgrinder team can pop up with 20-40 clanrats as a screen for the jezzails and the engineer. The enemy will have no choice but to direct attention towards these units or risk being shot apart. also the clanrats are hopefully in a position where they can threaten an objective.

The reasoning for the above strategy, is that quite often I am forced to take the first turn and unfortunately with the short range of the ratling cannons on the stormfiends, it is very hard to capitalise on going first, and if the opponent then pulls off the double turn, it can be very hard to turn things around. 

Wondering if anyone has tried anything similar? Im in the process of getting my acolytes assembled and painted so that I can give it a crack, but it is hard to consider leaving the stormfiends at home, especially with how much work they CAN get done. 

[Gwendar]

On 5/17/2021 at 7:03 PM, fishwaffle2232 said:

This will require placing 1 gnawhole in my deployment and 1 on each board edge

You should really be doing this most of the time anyway. Depending on the matchup you generally won't benefit from keeping something in their deployment and you're typically better off with 1-2 of them in your own and 1 on an edge or 2 on the edge in and 1 in your deployment

On 5/17/2021 at 7:03 PM, fishwaffle2232 said:

This is obviously a high risk play, as the jezzails are going to be out of position with an engineer. This brings me to my next option, a warpgrinder team with clanrats. After throwing the jezzails forward, the warpgrinder team can pop up with 20-40 clanrats as a screen for the jezzails and the engineer. The enemy will have no choice but to direct attention towards these units or risk being shot apart. also the clanrats are hopefully in a position where they can threaten an objective.

Yes, it is risky and is why I don't do it anymore. 12 Jezzails will do 16 damage on average with a warpspark. That's not bad by any means, but it's not exactly ripping anything apart and when you're dedicating Clanrats and a Warpgrinder to screen them I just don't see the value. You're probably better off just taking 10-20 Night Runners and using the pre-game move to get more speed to screen them for less.

On 5/17/2021 at 7:03 PM, fishwaffle2232 said:

The reasoning for the above strategy, is that quite often I am forced to take the first turn and unfortunately with the short range of the ratling cannons on the stormfiends, it is very hard to capitalise on going first, and if the opponent then pulls off the double turn, it can be very hard to turn things around. 

I think you need to understand that you don't have to be in range to shoot anything T1 anyway. I've ran 2x6 Fiends and used to run 1x9 back in the day and I've never had an issue because at the end of the day they are a short range threat, not a long range threat. The Windlaunchers on average will take out 5 wound heroes fully buffed the same as 6 Jezzails would and they don't even need line of sight.. so until the Ratlings get in range, you can still benefit from that threat the unit provides.

3.0 will change a lot but I will likely run 2x6 Fiends for the tournaments I have coming up at the end of August if it doesn't land by then and change things. All I can say is don't ignore Gnawholes as an option for Fiends

[fishwaffle2232]

On 5/20/2021 at 9:59 PM, Gwendar said:

You should really be doing this most of the time anyway. Depending on the matchup you generally won't benefit from keeping something in their deployment and you're typically better off with 1-2 of them in your own and 1 on an edge or 2 on the edge in and 1 in your deployment. 

I already do. just not necessarily on the board edges. But in this strategy its definitely needed. 

Quote

Yes, it is risky and is why I don't do it anymore. 12 Jezzails will do 16 damage on average with a warpspark. That's not bad by any means, but it's not exactly ripping anything apart and when you're dedicating Clanrats and a Warpgrinder to screen them I just don't see the value. You're probably better off just taking 10-20 Night Runners and using the pre-game move to get more speed to screen them for less.

Its more for sniping off key units or large models early. I also run doomwheels, so depending on deployment, I should be able to delete my targets first turn. 

This strategy is really to try and punish the opponent for giving away the first turn and hopefully force them to make adjustments to their plans. I havent posted the list but I can when I get home. But there will still be 20 acolytes and a bunch of clanrats+screaming bell to move out and claim objectives. 

If the opponent gives me 2nd turn that's fine, it wont really mess up the game plan too much, as there is a chance for double turn and hopefully they are in range of acolytes and/or jezzails. 

Anyway you make some good points about night runners, I'm just not particularly keen on adding them to my army. I'm playing around with the models I own. I'll have to give it a try but on paper I think it sounds good. Who knows, it might not do well, in which case i'll go crawling back to my stormfiends.

My other list with 6 stormfiends and 9 jezzails has been really successful and I went 2-1 at my last tournament with it losing to the winner of the tournament. Just wanted to try something different.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by fishwaffle2232
Edit: whoops, went 2-1 not 2-3. 

[DocKeule]

We will get a new battalion in the final Broken Realms book.

RATTACHAK'S DOOM-COVEN
1 Bombardier
3 Stormfiends
1 Warplightning Cannon

Lets see what the buffs will be. Also there are still rumors that specific battalions will not be legal in matched play in 3.0.

[Skreech Verminking]

22 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

We will get a new battalion in the final Broken Realms book.

RATTACHAK'S DOOM-COVEN
1 Bombardier
3 Stormfiends
1 Warplightning Cannon

Lets see what the buffs will be. Also there are still rumors that specific battalions will not be legal in matched play in 3.0.

Really?

I actually thought that broken realms will have had nothing for the skaven

 

ps: there are a lot of rumors about what will happen of the battailons.

Some say that we will be getting in addition to the battailons all armies already have core battailons.

others say that the core battailon will be the only way to take battailons in the near future of aos 3, with all faction specific battailons becoming a narrative open only thing.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[DocKeule]

3 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Really?

I actually thought that broken realms will have had nothing for the skaven

Looks very much like it. I even saw a cover for the box. Other than Skaven Beastmen, Sylvaneth and Slaanesh get a set and a batallion.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

others say that the core battailon will be the only way to take battailons in the near future of aos 3, with all faction specific battailons becoming a narrative open only thing.

That's what I read. And the way useful battalions are very unevenly spread that might be a good idea. Now it is usually the already strong factions that have the better formations on top.

[Umjammerlama]

31 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

We will get a new battalion in the final Broken Realms book.

RATTACHAK'S DOOM-COVEN
1 Bombardier
3 Stormfiends
1 Warplightning Cannon

Lets see what the buffs will be. Also there are still rumors that specific battalions will not be legal in matched play in 3.0.

Is that 3 squads of 3 Stormfiends?

Hoping the buffs will make it a Skaven Battalion worth taking?

[Skreech Verminking]

Just now, Umjammerlama said:

Is that 3 squads of 3 Stormfiends?

Hoping the buffs will make it a Skaven Battalion worth taking?

Welp, they can’t make it worse then what we already have😂, on the plus side

[DocKeule]

At the very least it will be a "buy 3 units for the price of 2" kit. 

Unfortunately I don't need a third cannon or fourth catapult. If they had put a Doomwheel in I would be in board.
 

[Skreech Verminking]

4 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

At the very least it will be a "buy 3 units for the price of 2" kit. 

Unfortunately I don't need a third cannon or fourth catapult. If they had put a Doomwheel in I would be in board.
 

Same here.

I’m the owner of 4cannons and currently a fith one just isn’t that much in my interest.

this kit basically has stuff in it that I already own more then 4times 

[DocKeule]

I am still debating upgrading to nine Stormfiends for Skryre-only-lists. But right now I think I will wait at least for the new edition or probably even for a new battletome before I spend more money on this army.

[Skreech Verminking]

3 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

I am still debating upgrading to nine Stormfiends for Skryre-only-lists. But right now I think I will wait at least for the new edition or probably even for a new battletome before I spend more money on this army.

Well I currently own 12 of them.

although theoretically 21 of them could fit into 2000points

[Aeryenn]

Hi,

I see this new broken realms box for Skavens. Easy to assume it will contain stormfiends. Can somebody please support me with a playable list that contains:

Thanquol and/or Verminking or something from his multi kit

Stormfiends but not in spam quantities (2-3 units)

Bombardier

These are really cool models and I want  to see what is it needed to play then. Thanks!

 

[DocKeule]

Thanquol and the Verminking are two different kits. 

Other than that you can use Stormfiends as damage dealers in pretty much every Skaven list and you need an engineer oder bombardier to get the most out of them any way. 

I like to use six Stormfiends as my hammer. You have 6D6 attacks with the Rattling Cannon plus eight attacks with the Windaunchers. For me the Rattling Cannons had the best results. If you let the bombardier use a warpspark every hit is +1 damage. "More and more warppower" lets youn re-roll all hit- and wound-rolls. And the first 14 wounds go on the melee-models that you don't care too much about any way. If you give the bombardier the Vigordust Injector you get +1 on your hit rolls.

 

[Aeryenn]

19 hours ago, DocKeule said:

Thanquol and the Verminking are two different kits. 

Other than that you can use Stormfiends as damage dealers in pretty much every Skaven list and you need an engineer oder bombardier to get the most out of them any way. 

I like to use six Stormfiends as my hammer. You have 6D6 attacks with the Rattling Cannon plus eight attacks with the Windaunchers. For me the Rattling Cannons had the best results. If you let the bombardier use a warpspark every hit is +1 damage. "More and more warppower" lets youn re-roll all hit- and wound-rolls. And the first 14 wounds go on the melee-models that you don't care too much about any way. If you give the bombardier the Vigordust Injector you get +1 on your hit rolls.

 

Do you have a playable (not tournament but good enough) list to use with 2x Broken Realms boxes? So 6 Stormfiends, 2 Warplighting Cannons and 1 Bombardier (2 is probably too much)?

Edited May 25, 2021 by Aeryenn

[Skreech Verminking]

8 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

Do you have a playable (not tournament but good enough) list to use with 2x Broken Realms boxes? So 6 Stormfiends, 2 Warplighting Cannons and 1 Bombardier (2 is probably too much)?

I wish I could say, but currently I’m not even sure if it is a warplightning cannon or a doomwheel that’ll be in it.

although units are pretty great, especially the doomwheel

ps: as for too many bombardiers, there actually isn’t enough.

you could literally go for a full stack of six and still be able to cast with all of them Warplightning.

and with more more more doomrockets, their damage output is pretty decent unless your models somehow unexpectedly die of betrayal or just miscalculated explosions

Edited May 25, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Aeryenn]

40 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I wish I could say, but currently I’m not even sure if it is a warplightning cannon or a doomwheel that’ll be in it.

although units are pretty great, especially the doomwheel

ps: as for too many bombardiers, there actually isn’t enough.

you could literally go for a full stack of six and still be able to cast with all of them Warplightning.

and with more more more doomrockets, their damage output is pretty decent unless your models somehow unexpectedly die of betrayal or just miscalculated explosions

I still struggle whether or not to make a whole 2k of Clan Skyre but my collection of minis seems incomplete without them. At least I would like to have Thanquol, Stormfiends and a Doomwheel. Great minis.

[Skreech Verminking]

43 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

I still struggle whether or not to make a whole 2k of Clan Skyre but my collection of minis seems incomplete without them. At least I would like to have Thanquol, Stormfiends and a Doomwheel. Great minis.

I can  share a few thoughts and ideas, this evening, if your still interested in them

Edited May 25, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Aeryenn]

33 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I can  share a few thoughts and ideas, this evening, if your still interested in them

Please do.

And I also think that Arch-Warlock is a must. What a great mini!

Edited May 25, 2021 by Aeryenn

[DocKeule]

4 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I wish I could say, but currently I’m not even sure if it is a warplightning cannon or a doomwheel that’ll be in it.

Pretty certainly:

Bombardier
3 Stormfiends
Cannon/Plagueclaw

[Skreech Verminking]

On 5/25/2021 at 2:21 PM, Aeryenn said:

Please do.

And I also think that Arch-Warlock is a must. What a great mini!

Welp to your preview post, a build woth thanqoul, Stormfiends, cannon and warlocks is possible, although woth the extreme costs of stormfiends and thanqoul, your very likely not going to have much else then that, if your going to have at least 1 unit of 6fiends.

you could also go for the min. Of 9 and well have a bit more points left for a cannon, doomwheel, and a few weapon teams, or just another doomwheel/cannon.

If you find this a bit restrictive, I would take a few acolytes, just to have a few different units.

Instead of buying those ugly and deadly expensive skryre acolytes from gw, I would actually just try to convert some out of Some bits.

Stormvermins and or plague monks, are actually great kits for putting those guns onto,

although you could also go for a third party seller like punka miniatures.

If your more interested going the mixed skaven way (which is a lot of fun as well) you may need at least 30Stormvermins or 60clanrats to get all of your min. amount of battleline (although if we are lucky this might hopefully chance in the third eddition), but till then they are tge only battleline options in a skaven mixed force.

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Aeryenn]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Welp to your preview post, a build woth thanqoul, Stormfiends, cannon and warlocks is possible, although woth the extreme costs of stormfiends and thanqoul, your very likely not going to have much else then that, if your going to have at least 1 unit of 6fiends.

you could also go for the min. Of 9 and well have a bit more points left for a cannon, doomwheel, and a few weapon teams, or just another doomwheel/cannon.

If you find this a bit restrictive, I would take a few acolytes, just to have a few different units.

Instead of buying those ugly and deadly expensive skryre acolytes from gw, I would actually just try to convert some out of Some bits.

Stormvermins and or plague monks, are actually great kits for putting those guns onto,

although you could also go for a third party seller like punka miniatures.

If your more interested going the mixed skaven way (which is a lot of fun as well) you may need at least 30Stormvermins or 60clanrats to get all of your min. amount of battleline (although if we are lucky this might hopefully chance in the third eddition), but till then they are tge only battleline options in a skaven mixed force.

 

Thanks!

I will try to make a mostly Skyre list but maybe just in case of grabbing objectives might take a look at those stormvermin or clanrats 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Aeryenn said:

Thanks!

I will try to make a mostly Skyre list but maybe just in case of grabbing objectives might take a look at those stormvermin or clanrats 

You can aslo take acolytes as a battleline option in a only skryre army

Although converting or buying those from third party sellers, is currently the better option and they usually look much better then the gw counterpart

[Aeryenn]

36 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

You can aslo take acolytes as a battleline option in a only skryre army

Although converting or buying those from third party sellers, is currently the better option and they usually look much better then the gw counterpart

Any signs that GW will reinvent them? Or if you were to guess, what part of Skaven army will receive an update?

[Skreech Verminking]

2 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

Any signs that GW will reinvent them? Or if you were to guess, what part of Skaven army will receive an update?

Considering that the third edition will be mostly playing in the realm of ghur, I could see clans moulder being next in line of an update.

personally I’m hoping that they would update all 51% of the book rather then 1or two units for a single greater clans

Sadly there are currently no rumors nor is there any knowledge of an update coming soon for the ratman. 
So basic  Hope is what we’ve got left

Edited May 26, 2021 by Skreech Verminking