AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

38 minutes ago, Adammck66 said:

Oh man that guy looks awesome and thats befote any extra rules traits or relics.  Wonder how the Verminlord deciever will compare?

 

Quick question on clanrats. Better to run in cheap blobs of 20, big 40 or a mix? And if 40 im assuming spears?

 

Thanks

I would say the following:

clanrat units in 20-40, hand weapons.

clanrats in 60 spears

[DocKeule]

2 hours ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

We are on here! I love these rules.

Frankly I am pretty disappointed. 

I would have preferred something like the rules for the Underworlds warband to still simply hiding in a unit. 

The poison-rule got a little bit better and the shooting improved slightly. On the other hand he now has fewer attacks so that is probably a zero-sum trade.

Still very little rend, no command ability...

The shooting should statistically come down to 1-2 wounding hits (1,25). Against a 4+ save we are lucky to cause 1 wound on average.

Combat is a little better.  2-3 (2,22) wounding hits at -1.

Probably his bast chance of doing a little damage is rolling that 1-2 sixes per turn and doing some MWs. 

I can see him killing some weaker 5-wound target (as long as there is no ward etc.). But this Deathmaster is far from being a threat to most valuable targets.

[Beliman]

2 hours ago, DocKeule said:

Still very little rend, no command ability...

Don't expect Command Abilities on Warscrolls. GW is removing them.

[bonzai]

If I can cast curse with a screaming bell, then I will be very happy. Right now I am running Plague priests with bricks of clan rats and it requires a lot more micro management to keep him from damaging them. This would be a much better solution if it can be pulled off.

[Garrac]

Well, Im no aos player veteran (just have 1 match) but honestly if I have to put on the field an Eshin unit/character I prefer the uw band. They are more expensive, but I see them more capable for doing the job (kill characters) than this deathmaster

[DocKeule]

Probably, especially since the Deathmaster can't even use his missile attacks the turn he shows up.

[Bregor]

11 hours ago, bonzai said:

If I can cast curse with a screaming bell, then I will be very happy. Right now I am running Plague priests with bricks of clan rats and it requires a lot more micro management to keep him from damaging them. This would be a much better solution if it can be pulled off.

I can't see them allowing this RAW without some funky new allegiance ability, since the bell doesn't have the priest keyword when enhancements are given out. I'd love to see it though, since right now the new warscroll looks like a staggering disappointment imo. It just feels like it got worse in every role it had beforehand and didn't gain any new practical function.

[Skreech Verminking]

9 minutes ago, Bregor said:

I can't see them allowing this RAW without some funky new allegiance ability, since the bell doesn't have the priest keyword when enhancements are given out. I'd love to see it though, since right now the new warscroll looks like a staggering disappointment imo. It just feels like it got worse in every role it had beforehand and didn't gain any new practical function.

It got worse.

You’re literally just taking it for the summon.

and unless verminlords are going to cost a hell lot more then right now, I see no reason not ever taking a verminlord over a screaming bell.

the screaming bell at least from its raw state just is nothing.

it needs to be pushed by other units.

it has zero aura abilities that helps you own units, his peal of doom is just a damage dealing thing, that has a good chance of not working.

i’d actually prefer the older warscroll.

at least there it has a purpose to exist 

[vaector]

4 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

It got worse.

You’re literally just taking it for the summon.

and unless verminlords are going to cost a hell lot more then right now, I see no reason not ever taking a verminlord over a screaming bell.

the screaming bell at least from its raw state just is nothing.

it needs to be pushed by other units.

it has zero aura abilities that helps you own units, his peal of doom is just a damage dealing thing, that has a good chance of not working.

i’d actually prefer the older warscroll.

at least there it has a purpose to exist 

I've never played any tournaments so I can't speak from any sort of competative mindset but I was actually really liking the new bell (minus losing a few things like battleshock and still needing to be pushed around for no good reason). The fact that the more damage you take on this fairly defensibly unit, the more likely your summon goes off means enemies probably won't want to throw chip damage at it. They either take it off in one go or don't touch it because if they do that extra verminlord is likely coming out. between that and the stormvermin body guard you can put on it, the bell can be a decent platform that can survive a while to project spells and get some of the peal of doom effects off even if they are at a much smaller range.

Maybe that isn't enough to save it but I quite like the fact that it has that implied "if you are going to shoot the king you better make sure you kill him" effect.

[Skreech Verminking]

15 minutes ago, vaector said:

I've never played any tournaments so I can't speak from any sort of competative mindset but I was actually really liking the new bell (minus losing a few things like battleshock and still needing to be pushed around for no good reason). The fact that the more damage you take on this fairly defensibly unit, the more likely your summon goes off means enemies probably won't want to throw chip damage at it. They either take it off in one go or don't touch it because if they do that extra verminlord is likely coming out. between that and the stormvermin body guard you can put on it, the bell can be a decent platform that can survive a while to project spells and get some of the peal of doom effects off even if they are at a much smaller range.

Maybe that isn't enough to save it but I quite like the fact that it has that implied "if you are going to shoot the king you better make sure you kill him" effect.

That is true but why try and protect the bell, when it’s purpose is to take as many wounds possible so it can summon that verminlord that will do hopefully a better job then the grey seer 

edit: at this point you might as well try and cast warplightning vortex onto himself so he can suffer wounds.

basically the screaming bell is a slaanesh unit that wants to be tortured as badly as any living being needs water

Edited May 12, 2022 by Skreech Verminking

[vaector]

2 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

That is true but why try and protect the bell, when it’s purpose is to take as many wounds possible so it can summon that verminlord that will do hopefully a better job then the grey seer 

edit: at this point you might as well try and cast warplightning vortex onto himself so he can suffer wounds.

basically the screaming bell is a slaanesh unit that wants to be tortured as badly as any living being needs water

That's one way to look at it and maybe that's the correct one. However, I look at it more as the point of the unit isn't to get the verminlord out otherwise, yeah just take the verminlord instead. Instead I look at it as a good target for a tanky general that can project power through spells that it can now reliably cast with the +2 and who can project peals out who isn't somebody you need to hold back to keep safe because if you swing at him you better kill him or a demon is about to get dropped on your face. To me the verminlord is almost a psychological deterrent that allows the bell to do the rest of the stuff it wants to do rather than just die asap.

This is of course assuming you're not going up against an enemy that  can drop him in 1 turn in which case, yeah play a bit more defensive. But who knows how all of this will change when the battle traits are here. All I know is that in my casual/narrative circle, nobody was scared of me rolling a 12 on 2d6 but people are now more afraid of the proposition of even touching the bell.

[HunterxHunter]

When you look at the new Warscroll from the Bell, you can see a trend that the units get more "Skavenish". More Potential to fail but you have the Potential to get something that is awesome (free Verminlord). The old BT had the same Problem like old Nurgle. Its to unfluffy, the old Skaven BT is really to save with the 26" BS Immunnity and who cares about the danger from the warpstones? The only risk has the Warplightcannon. I hope Skaven gets more like this. Crazy Output with funny potential to fail hard ❤️

[Skreech Verminking]

16 minutes ago, HunterxHunter said:

When you look at the new Warscroll from the Bell, you can see a trend that the units get more "Skavenish". More Potential to fail but you have the Potential to get something that is awesome (free Verminlord). The old BT had the same Problem like old Nurgle. Its to unfluffy, the old Skaven BT is really to save with the 26" BS Immunnity and who cares about the danger from the warpstones? The only risk has the Warplightcannon. I hope Skaven gets more like this. Crazy Output with funny potential to fail hard ❤️

 

39 minutes ago, vaector said:

That's one way to look at it and maybe that's the correct one. However, I look at it more as the point of the unit isn't to get the verminlord out otherwise, yeah just take the verminlord instead. Instead I look at it as a good target for a tanky general that can project power through spells that it can now reliably cast with the +2 and who can project peals out who isn't somebody you need to hold back to keep safe because if you swing at him you better kill him or a demon is about to get dropped on your face. To me the verminlord is almost a psychological deterrent that allows the bell to do the rest of the stuff it wants to do rather than just die asap.

This is of course assuming you're not going up against an enemy that  can drop him in 1 turn in which case, yeah play a bit more defensive. But who knows how all of this will change when the battle traits are here. All I know is that in my casual/narrative circle, nobody was scared of me rolling a 12 on 2d6 but people are now more afraid of the proposition of even touching the bell.

Personally I love randomness, the problem I’m facing with the screaming bell is more its reason for being played and well the reward system that should come with a risk.

I love the fact thar we can summon a verminlord, while doing so loosing on the peal of doom, and the chance of killing itself.

the prblem I’m facing is basically the peal of doom.

certainly the risk is higher for the screaming bell to loose wounds, yet the rewards is more or lessly said not there for doing so.

You’ll mostly be giving out 1-d6 mortal wounds to a single unit within 13 not really something I’d consider great.

so basically I’ll happily spend that ability for a verminlord.

something I’m also missing is the fact that it was able to give bs immunity.

if they’d put that back and you could loose that ability when summoning the verminlord, now that is what I’d call a risk for a reward.

currently summoning a verminlord is only something you can gain, while not loosing anything.

in my oppinion that is a poor taste,

of course I’m mosty talking here froma raw warscroll perspective.

since we don’t know how artefacts allegaince ability and so on will effect the skaven range, 

not much else can be said

[vaector]

26 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

 

Personally I love randomness, the problem I’m facing with the screaming bell is more its reason for being played and well the reward system that should come with a risk.

I love the fact thar we can summon a verminlord, while doing so loosing on the peal of doom, and the chance of killing itself.

the prblem I’m facing is basically the peal of doom.

certainly the risk is higher for the screaming bell to loose wounds, yet the rewards is more or lessly said not there for doing so.

You’ll mostly be giving out 1-d6 mortal wounds to a single unit within 13 not really something I’d consider great.

so basically I’ll happily spend that ability for a verminlord.

something I’m also missing is the fact that it was able to give bs immunity.

if they’d put that back and you could loose that ability when summoning the verminlord, now that is what I’d call a risk for a reward.

currently summoning a verminlord is only something you can gain, while not loosing anything.

in my oppinion that is a poor taste,

of course I’m mosty talking here froma raw warscroll perspective.

since we don’t know how artefacts allegaince ability and so on will effect the skaven range, 

not much else can be said

I agree, the randomness is what makes skaven fun. I hope we get more stuff where there's a relatively small chance of failure, mostly doing fine, then small chance of greatness. Unlike the doomwheel's reroll movement ability that is most likely going to end up with your opponent controlling the model's movement.

I don't know what you mean when you say summoning the verminlord means you don't lose anything. Peal of doom isn't insanely powerful but I think it can really add up. Options for 1 and 2 do suck. but 3-6 are definitely nice IMO. -1 to hit rolls in a 13" bubble is pretty strong in a save stacking meta (though -1 to wound would have been better), 1/3 chance of not being able to issue a command to a nearby unit can totally mess up somebody's plan (Lady O is getting this and we're already hearing from early adopters that it's really messed with people), d6 impact mortals isn't crazy but it's not nothing. and aoe d3 mortals (on a 4+) can be pretty decent if placed right. Plus you lose the ability to cast Cracks Call which, I've personally never had much luck with but that's still another thing you're throwing away either a verminlord is summoned or not.

That said, after seeing the warscroll for the Lady of Vines, I'm a little less enthused about the bell scroll. Not because I don't like the bell more so because the Lady of Vines scroll is just overtuned in comparison (5+ ward bubble for 1cp?).

But in the end you're right, without the battle traits and enhancements speculating won't really get us much farther. Nighthaunt is damn near entirely defined by their battle traits. I think Skaven will be a bit more flavorful on their scrolls and a little less defined by the battle traits but I imagine the battle traits will still the main decider in all of this.

Edited May 12, 2022 by vaector

[DocKeule]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

It got worse.

You’re literally just taking it for the summon.

and unless verminlords are going to cost a hell lot more then right now, I see no reason not ever taking a verminlord over a screaming bell.

the screaming bell at least from its raw state just is nothing.

it needs to be pushed by other units.

it has zero aura abilities that helps you own units, his peal of doom is just a damage dealing thing, that has a good chance of not working.

i’d actually prefer the older warscroll.

at least there it has a purpose to exist 

I think we will really need to wait for the book. There are too many open questions like

1. Will the Snoutgravel Robe (or something taking it's place) remain in the game so the bell could still give battleshock immunity at the cost of not taking anither artefact.

2. Will we still have the "lead from the back" ability for every hero that is not a monster?

3. What new rules, abilities etc. will we get.


 

 

20 minutes ago, vaector said:

That said, after seeing the warscroll for the Lady of Vines, I'm a little less enthused about the bell scroll. Not because I don't like the bell more so because the Lady of Vines scroll is just overtuned in comparison (5+ ward bubble for 1cp?).

On the other hand the lady can only summon one 95 point unit of Dryads and costs like 90 points more that the bell.

[vaector]

5 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

the other hand the lady can only summon one 95 point unit of Dryads and costs like 90 points more that the bell.

That's fair. I think those point values are enough that you can remove the point difference and the summoning ability and say "how does her scroll compare with the bell now?"

Better save, but less wounds. Doesn't require 10 bodies nearby to let her move, Higher bravery. Much better attack profile that is at 3" range so can fight behind ranks plus her ranged attack. 2 caster, though without a casting bonus on warscroll. She is a bonus general. Projects wildwood effect, Can do that +1/-1 to hit bubble in combat, and has a WW12" 5+ ward bubble casted on a 7.

Compare all of that to +5 wounds, 5+ ward, a degrading cast bonus, peal of doom, and possibility to summon a verminlord.

I don't really know exactly how all of that shakes out but I suspect she'd edge out the bell in battlefield contribution. Though in 1 on 1 she likely is only going to do the kind of damage to the bell that guarantees a verminlord is being dropped on her head next turn.

So who knows! I still love the new bell. I just think the Lady of Vines benefits from the "new model, please buy" bonuses like the new boat-ghost for Nighthaunt who is somehow only 175pts. (Nighthaunt players have got to be ready for that price to go up when the new model smell wears away!)

[W1tchhunter]

Not sure if you guys post hobby stuff in the thread (ill delete if not), but started my skaven journey today, looking forward to playing! 

[Skreech Verminking]

I have a feeing this meme explains everything by itself

[Skreech Verminking]

13 hours ago, W1tchhunter said:

Not sure if you guys post hobby stuff in the thread (ill delete if not), but started my skaven journey today, looking forward to playing! 

Love the model it is gorgeous 

[W1tchhunter]

30 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Love the model it is gorgeous 

Thank you Lord Skreech 🙏 🐀 🐁 

[Adammck66]

Im not sure what to do about Stormvermin. At the moment they are GW direct so they dont get those sweet discounts online.

 

But when repackaged they may become standard. Only im afraid they may suddenly put them into 10man boxes rather than 20

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Adammck66 said:

Im not sure what to do about Stormvermin. At the moment they are GW direct so they dont get those sweet discounts online.

 

But when repackaged they may become standard. Only im afraid they may suddenly put them into 10man boxes rather than 20

I doubt it

Edited May 16, 2022 by Skreech Verminking

[Skreech Verminking]

Got some skaven terrain built

[W1tchhunter]

Got my Hellpit painted up this weekend! Think I'm happy with how he's turned out. Still need to pop the base on.

[Skreech Verminking]

4 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

Got my Hellpit painted up this weekend! Think I'm happy with how he's turned out. Still need to pop the base on.

There are no words I could use to describe this marvelous looking paintjob.

ps: is that a 3d print?