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S133arcanite

AoS 2 - Gloomspite Gitz Discussion

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1 minute ago, JackStreicher said:

There is so much more to it than only the healing. Monsters at his powerlevel are 380+ points and they degrade, don‘t get cover, csn‘t Heal themselves, don‘t have 4 D6 dmg attacks, aren‘t Immune to magic and they don‘t get -1 to being hit if 3 grots are around.

I imagine that he will get FAQ'd pretty soon to give him the monster keyword, as for magic immunity, its only on a 4+ to cancel it out. I would also prefer flat 3 damage instead of d6 personally as it fluctuates too much for my liking.

Overall he is good but isnt an auto include in my book. If he doesnt get FAQ'd to have the monster keyword great, he will be super resilient especially with the spell that does a further -1 to hit. He is quite slow though, itll take a couple turns to even get into combat.

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15 minutes ago, Morhgoz said:

Or you could save money and do them your self, as they are one of the easiest made fauna...

I won't argue with you about that.  But not everyone wants to make them themselves.

For myself, I already convert a lot of the models I touch, and with my grots I hand-build themed cavern bases that do not take an insignificant amount of effort.  I like to save time where I can and make things easier when I can since I already put a lot of effort into my stuff.  I also greatly value visual variety - especially for mushrooms.  I have methods to make different ones from scratch or cheap items, but I like having the option to buy some.  This is especially true for large ones for terrain or accents on big monster bases.

Honestly, at this point in my life my time is probably the most valuable resource that I have.  So if I can save some of it and still get the results that I want (or better results) then I will happily pay for it as cost is not much of an issue.  Other people have different priorities depending upon their situation.  

I posted those links in case anyone else was interested in them.  If people would prefer to scratch build to save cash then thats great - but I am certain that not everyone does.

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45 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Sounds great.

good luck then (am doing the same thing)

I'm building them with Ulgu theme, like my Gloomspite Gitz, so I can have good background for them to fight each other. Also my Sylvainians and Wanderers are based to Ulgu.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Remember the Bad Moon, though: 

Troggoths can re-roll the dice to see if they regenerate wounds, or double the results of their first roll.

He'll have a hard time catching up with the badmoon with a 6" move and a d6 advance.

I think the boingrots is where its at! take a big unit of them and charge a unit and unleash mortal wounds! With 4 attacks each on a 4+ 3+ rend 1 they can also do some work there aswell.

Edited by Ekrund Oath Splitters

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

There is so much more to it than only the healing. Monsters at his powerlevel are 380+ points and they degrade, don‘t get cover, csn‘t Heal themselves, don‘t have 4 D6 dmg attacks, aren‘t Immune to magic and they don‘t get -1 to being hit if 3 grots are around.

Actually on comparison he's at best a 260-340 point monster. It's just that destructions monsters are all so ridiculously overcosted we have no idea how much something SHOULD cost.

A complete lack of MW output along with no fly and a move of 6" makes him horrifically limited. Hell the Club is 2" range not 3"

He's just a combat version of Lady Olynder who is 240 points. Here's a list of stuff at around 240 points which are all equivalent to him.

  • Freeguild General on Gryphon
  • Lady Olynder
  • Bloodthirsters
  • Demon Prince (at 160)
  • Verminlords
  • Shaggoth (at 180)
  • Keeper of Secrets
  • Arkhan the Black (at 320)

Basically the Troggboss  is probably around 200-260 points when compared to other equivalent heroes.

EDIT: 

10 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

... and now compare him to the Leviadon.

Why would you compare him to one of the most overcosted and underpowered units when trying to determine how many points he should be?

Edited by Malakree
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Posted (edited)

I don't know. I think 340-360 points would be a reasonable price for the Trogboss compared to other models. There are a lot of stronger units in the game which cost even less.  If you even compare the Trogboss with a Stonehorn or a Maw-Krusha a price of 360 still sounds reasonable. He also has only a 4+ save compared to other hero units which have a 3+ save.

I think 460 would be way too much, even with all the abilities he has.

Edited by Infeston

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2 minutes ago, Infeston said:

I don't know. I think 340-360 points would be a good number for the Trogboss compared to other models. There are a lot worse units in the game which cost even less.  If you compare the Trogboss even with a Stonehorn or a Maw-Krusha a price of 360 still sounds reasonable. He also has only a 4+ compared to other hero units which have a 3+ save. 

I think 460 would be way too much, even with all the abilities he has.

Problem is, both of those are well known to be incredibly overcosted.

Cabbage should be around 360/380 points for example.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Actually on comparison he's at best a 260-340 point monster. It's just that destructions monsters are all so ridiculously overcosted we have no idea how much something SHOULD cost.

A complete lack of MW output along with no fly and a move of 6" makes him horrifically limited. Hell the Club is 2" range not 3"

He's just a combat version of Lady Olynder who is 240 points. Here's a list of stuff at around 240 points which are all equivalent to him.

  • Freeguild General on Gryphon
  • Lady Olynder
  • Bloodthirsters
  • Demon Prince (at 160)
  • Verminlords
  • Shaggoth (at 180)
  • Keeper of Secrets
  • Arkhan the Black (at 320)

Basically the Troggboss  is probably around 200-260 points when compared to other equivalent heroes.

I think he will be fine for 240pts. His squiggly beasts ability only really works on 1-6 model units, anything unit higher than 6 ignores the mortal wound. He is quite slow for a monster, movement 8 would of been better. He isnt also invincible like people are currently thinking, hes just abit tougher than a gargant atm. My unit of brutes could probably drop him in one combat phase.

Edited by Ekrund Oath Splitters

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21 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

I mean I love BoC, but felt at least a character or two would help them get some personality other than "we're chaos marauders with goat heads".  An AoS version of Kholek Suneater (maybe his successor) would have been cool. Or the Brass Bull.

I agree completely, they needed a named hero and I was sad to see them not get one.

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51 minutes ago, Infeston said:

I have to say that I don't like the Skragrott model that much.  Also I was never a fan of named heroes. I like creating my own heroes with their own backstory. A named hero instead always has some kind of backstory, which I can't influence.

This is why I like unnamed heroes more than named ones.

You can always do some crazy converted miniature  (like I do), write him nice backstory and name it, and use it as count as certain named character... I have used Ghazghull's stats for my crazy warboss in 40k for several edition now. Everyone who is real fan of this hobby will be trilled to play your count as thing , because they dig good story etc.

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Reading the warscroll, Skargrott is pretty cool, I do like that he both a wizard and an artillery piece.

the other one are pretty solid too like the Troggboss and Loonboss 

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What im loving is the sporesplattas with the sneaky snufflers. Those two combined will make a unit of stabbas crazy!!! 3 attack each per gobbo is mental. And we dont even know what the brewgit does yet for them aswell.

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59 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

He is carrying the old Skull Wand of Kaloth!  They even kept the name.  Fun Old-World references like that just make me happy.

Same here! Just love little stuff like this they throw us oldtimers!

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Problem is, both of those are well known to be incredibly overcosted.

Cabbage should be around 360/380 points for example.

Jeah. This is what I was talking about. I meant even though they are overcoasted, a price of 360 points isn't too high for a Trogboss. 

I agree with you that the Trogboss should cost even less. 

I just meant that the Trogboss isnt worth the same price as a Stonehorn for example. I mean 4 attacks with D6 damage is pretty random. You could get anything between 4 damage and 24 damage. And there is still a chance that you might miss your attack. 

Compare this with a  Forstlord on Stonehorn, which attacks with 3 damage and can have 10 attacks with 3 damage if they all hit. This would be 30 damage, whereas the Trogboss can only put out 24 damage if you roll four 6s. And these are not even all of his attacks.  I just wanted to say that I don't think the Trogboss should cost so much, because in my eyes he is weaker than a  Frostlord on Stonehorn, which even has 3+ save.

I just wanted to state that I don't think the Trogboss is too overpovered and should cost too much, because even inside of Destuction there are some units who put out a lot more consistent damage compared to the Trogboss, which cost between 400-500 points. So I don't think the Trogboss is worth 460 worth points. I think point values between 250 and 380 seem to be reasonable for him. But not point values of 400-500.

Edited by Infeston
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Just now, Morhgoz said:

Same here! Just love little stuff like this they throw us oldtimers!

Its a shame he cant instantly blow up people with it like the old one did! Crazy how the skull wand even survived this long! Would be cool to see how he came about finding it. 

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1 minute ago, Infeston said:

Jeah. This is what I was talking about. I meant even though they are overcoasted a price of 360 points isn't too high for a Trogboss. 

I agree with you that the Trogboss should cost even less. 

I just meant that the Trogboss isnt worth the same price as a Stonehorn for example. I mean 4 attacks with D6 damage is pretty random. You could get anything between 4 damage and 24 damage. And there is still a chance that you might miss your attack. 

Compare this with a  Forstlord on Stonehorn, which attacks with 3 damage and can have 10 attacks with 3 damage if they all hit. I just wanted to say that I don't think the Trogboss should cost so much, because in my eyes he is weaker as a Stonehorn, which even has 3+ save.

Yeah, 260 would be top end points of maybe he's overcosted. 160 would be Hag 2.0

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1 hour ago, JPjr said:

looking at the Boingrot Bounderz warscroll and I was wondering something about their movement (2D6)

Just thinking about unit cohesion, I'm assuming with units like this you roll once each turn for the whole unit not for each individual model (hilarious as that could be)?

Yes, you roll once for the unit.

Once upon a time in the long long ago Squig Hoppers used to be bought and included in units of Cave Squigs (sort of like fanatics) and you chose to bounce them out of the unit at some point during the game.  From then on each one operated independently and you had to roll for each one of them and sometimes roll for random directions.  Fanatics worked the same way and were each individuals that you had to roll for.  Depending on how you built your army you could easily spend half of your turn simply resolving the random movements of all these guys at the "compulsory" part of the movement phase at the start of your turn.  It led to fun shenanigans, but it was quite time consuming and could bog the game down. 

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1 hour ago, JPjr said:

looking at the Boingrot Bounderz warscroll and I was wondering something about their movement (2D6)

Just thinking about unit cohesion, I'm assuming with units like this you roll once each turn for the whole unit not for each individual model (hilarious as that could be)?

One roll for the whole unit. Its actually the same with random attack characteristics as well if you didn't know. So for deepkin eels you roll 1d3 and apply the result to the whole unit. So if I got a 1 then all nine eels only get one tail attack. 

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2 minutes ago, S133arcanite said:

The fanatics aren't GROTs...

Only the Shootas and Stabbas are. As they are a Moonclan Grot unit entry. The others arent even though they are "grot" models 

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1 minute ago, S133arcanite said:

The fanatics aren't GROTs...

Depending on min unit size it could be to avoid spamming them for the Spiteful Prodder artifact.

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20 minutes ago, Malakree said:

 

Why would you compare him to one of the most overcosted and underpowered units when trying to determine how many points he should be?

Leviadon :(

Big model points make no sense anyway. Arkhan, probably the best caster in the game for his points is 320 whereas an eidolon who has similar stats and a worse spell is 440. 

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1 minute ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

Only the Shootas and Stabbas are. As they are a Moonclan Grot unit entry. The others arent even though they are "grot" models 

The heroes are - at least the Loonking is.  I expect what we will see are units with grots on foot (aside from Fanatics) will probably have the grot keyword.  I expect they did this purposefully for interaction purposes with certain rules in the new book.

As for the Troggoth hero and the monster keyword - my suspicion is that is an accident and either he will have it in the actual printed book & app or they will quickly errata it.

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1 minute ago, Skabnoze said:

The heroes are - at least the Loonking is.  I expect what we will see are units with grots on foot (aside from Fanatics) will probably have the grot keyword.  I expect they did this purposefully for interaction purposes with certain rules in the new book.

As for the Troggoth hero and the monster keyword - my suspicion is that is an accident and either he will have it in the actual printed book & app or they will quickly errata it.

Yea i suspect that he will get an errata within 2 weeks of release. He looks bigger than a shaggoth and about the same height as a gargant. But saying that, is the Eidolons of Mathlaan monsters? I have a sneaky suspicious that they arent

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1 minute ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

Yea i suspect that he will get an errata within 2 weeks of release. He looks bigger than a shaggoth and about the same height as a gargant. But saying that, is the Eidolons of Mathlaan monsters? I have a sneaky suspicious that they arent

According to the app - they are not.  I can see them getting away with not being a monster, but the Troggboss is a gigantic Troll.  I would be very surprised if a huge troll is not a monster.

Maybe for game reasons they decide not to give him the keyword, but my personal suspicion is that they will.

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