AoS 2 - Seraphon Discussion

[Televiper11]

2 minutes ago, Wilhelm Stürmer said:

@Televiper11 I don't own that model and thus haven't played it. Curse of Fates seems like an under-appreciated spell, though the Starpriest's Ability seems more useful, imo. Again, it comes down point value: 80 vs 200. The Starseer has only one cast and unbind, just like the Starpriest, so it comes down to the Spell and Ability. For 1250 pts and below, you want that Starpriest.

Thanks, I appreciate your help while I figure out how to build a better list.

[Bryan I Guess]

Personally I think the Starpriest is the best support in the entire seraphon army. Doubling the damage of jaw attacks (which includes Carnosaurs, troglodons, and Dread Saurians [yeah I got a 12 damage bite off during the tournament] ) for free is phenomenal on top of one of the best spells for keeping units alive.  I would go so far as to say it's one of the best support pieces in the game.

The Starseer really doesn't do much at all IMHO

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

1 hour ago, Televiper11 said:

Do you prefer the Starpriest over the Starseer? 

If you truly want the star seers abilities and aren’t running a list focused on summoning, then there’s is a trait that gives the slann both of the skink spells. This gives you great flexibility and honestly isn’t a bad pick, although many people love the double teleport and you can argue it does more for the army. Also a second slann to summon and another one to use the trait and spells isn’t a bad bet honestly if you feel the extra spells and dispels are useful to you. It also saves you a bit of points (260 points for an awesome slann, as oppose to taking Both skinks for 280 points. But one also requires a trait so again it’s dependant on a lot of factors!)

[Future]

Starseer is nerfed into the ground. The other two are amazing. Give a unit reroll saves from the prayer and / or - 1 to be hit. It really helps. I've been running starpriest + geminids in every single list I make anymore. If I was running anything saurus related the regular priest would also be an auto include.

[SolomonHelsing]

It's situational but I believe my list i'm taking to Heat 1 at Warhammer World will make good use of taking a Starseer, by having definite usages for its spell and the very likely +1 command point a turn. true it's not as good as its previous re-rolls could be though this will be my first time using one, and be nice when I can get some endless spells along side it when the points hopefully drop, But I think there's a reason to use it still. Hopefully I'll be proved somewhat right by my result. 

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

@SolomonHelsing Would you post your list and update us on it's outcome?

[Tea Rex]

14 minutes ago, Wilhelm Stürmer said:

@SolomonHelsing Would you post your list and update us on it's outcome?

Hear hear!

Please do share with us.

[SolomonHelsing]

30 minutes ago, Wilhelm Stürmer said:

@SolomonHelsing Would you post your list and update us on it's outcome?

Sure,  Happy to, just had to get it compiled on warscroll builder.

Allegiance: Seraphon
Mortal Realm: Ghyran
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Great Rememberer 
Skink Starseer (200)
Saurus Eternity Warden (140)
- Artefact: The Sunderblade 
Saurus Sunblood (120)
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike 
Skink Starpriest (80)
Skink Priest (80)
- Priestly Trappings
10 x Saurus Guard (180)
10 x Saurus Guard (180)
10 x Saurus Guard (180)
Dread Saurian (420)
Eternal Starhost (150)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 80
 

Main points is that I wanted the double teleport, because I've had some games where if I had that second chance to teleport it would've won me the game.

Then I wanted to sure up one of the turn one teleports for either the dread saurian or the ghyrstrike sunblood, if they've shielded for the dread, I could slip the sunblood in to kamikaze a crucial hero instead. 

*Edit* Also the Command Point on a 2+ means I likely can use my sunbloods scent of weakness for however many turns it's alive for free so to speak, and as most of my list is Saurus, it's proven a good one to use.

Obviously starpriest cause double bite damage on the dread and -1. 

Priest to hopefully get those non command point re-rolls turn one for everything that needs it, Specially as the saves aren't fails so I can re-roll what would fail cause of -2 rend if that happens for the guard. 

Saurus Guard just an absolute tank of a unit, I've been getting better at stringing them for the +1 attack and +2 saves and bravery from the eternity warden being a bit further away than usual. 

The sunderblade artefact hasn't really shown the best results, but I mean, an Eternity Warden spinning then smashing his Mace into the ground just feels too right to get rid of it, and if the guard are taking on multiple units like they can without mortal wounds taking them down, then its better than the other mortal wounds I can get at range. 

Obviously mortal wounds are the issue, but there's so little to protect against them that I just decided to hell with worrying about them. If I can get the mortal wound dealing units taken out  by the turn one teleport attacks then all for the better for this list lasting 5 turns. 

Just thought i'd run through my thoughts. Been working on a list like this for a good few tournaments now, Starseer was the final addition, took out razordons but I can summon them instead. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by SolomonHelsing
Extra detail

[Future]

57 minutes ago, SolomonHelsing said:

 

Main points is that I wanted the double teleport, because I've had some games where if I had that second chance to teleport it would've won me the game.

 

Heh, I've lost a tournament by failing both attempts in the bottom of round 5. Teleport knows when to fail. I like the list a lot. Lots of people diss the guard for their vulnerability to mortal wounds but thats kinda the whole game, not this unit. I think they have a really strong profile. I'd love to hear how you do.

[SolomonHelsing]

12 minutes ago, Future said:

Heh, I've lost a tournament by failing both attempts in the bottom of round 5. Teleport knows when to fail. I like the list a lot. Lots of people diss the guard for their vulnerability to mortal wounds but thats kinda the whole game, not this unit. I think they have a really strong profile. I'd love to hear how you do.

Haha yeah they sure do, hence why my main desire for curse of fates is purely that, the fact it can get me another double damage bite attack is a bonus .

Yeah I was going to win a league game by one point if a teleport succeed, it didn't and lost by 2 points instead. 

Yeah, I see that a lot, it both grates on me a lot but also motivates me to succeed with them over skinks haha. I know for sure 5 man units just don't get in to combat enough, but i'm willing to sacrifice 5 to get the other 5 in if it really comes down to that, our bravery helps that a lot (Specially if i'd remember the +2 from hero within 8") 

Yeah will certainly give at least a result in terms of win/loss on here, and if I can note down some things to mention I will do.

Got another 15 guard on the paint table and buying another box soon, I'll be doing a full 20/20/20 when they're done, getting movement trays so I can string them easier and move it all quicker. I think that'll take people by surprise when plenty of them get into fights. 

[Future]

Not only that but when they sink in and start doing d3 a hit! I honestly love guard but I only have 15 and I agree with you, if you are serious about getting them into combat take 10. I'd love to see 20.

 

Slight rant but I feel like seraphon get the short end of the stick on perception. Everyone says we are overcosted and underpowered and just take skinks and play for the gold. Well thats definitely 'math' true, to an extent. However, we have some great units that can really get in, and I think a big deal of it is confirmation bias. I just see other factions take things like 600 points + of a unit and everyone is like wow yeah that unit really performs. Then we see seraphon lists invest 200 point into an idea and its like eh our stats suck why bother.

 

Anyway, I have really been enjoying my mortal wound shadowstrike list but I've always got saurus on my mind. To many evos and deepkin in my meta to take a 40 block of warriors, but guard might be the ticket.

[SolomonHelsing]

Had a practice game with that list tonight, the starseer proved useful first turn when the dread saurian rolled a 2 to teleport. What didn't help was me rolling a 7 after that, forgetting I had the +1 charge configuration, and +1 from stoke rage from aqyshy, So my dread couldn't road block further up the field a bunch of beasts of chaos dragon ogres, and got wiped by three units after, I held out pretty well after that but a loss in the end. Just got to remember those buffs when it matters adn that could've been alot different if dread saurian had taken  a unit out. 

Real test starts in a few hours.  

[Tea Rex]

7 hours ago, SolomonHelsing said:

Had a practice game with that list tonight, the starseer proved useful first turn when the dread saurian rolled a 2 to teleport. What didn't help was me rolling a 7 after that, forgetting I had the +1 charge configuration, and +1 from stoke rage from aqyshy, So my dread couldn't road block further up the field a bunch of beasts of chaos dragon ogres, and got wiped by three units after, I held out pretty well after that but a loss in the end. Just got to remember those buffs when it matters adn that could've been alot different if dread saurian had taken  a unit out. 

Real test starts in a few hours.  

Good luck. Its not a loss if lessons are learnt!

[SolomonHelsing]

So not a brilliant result at 0-5 unfortunately with a lower than I'd have liked kill points result. 

so TL:DR is that I probably could've won one or two games if I'd just reverted to skink summon and teleport but got a bit pre-occupied with summoning razordons and wanting the dread saurian to teleport and do the job by killing instead. Honestly that's the way i'd rather always play it, but I'll temper it with sensible options a bit more again from now on. I used to do that, got too hung up on starting army doing all the business. It can't till we get an update. But i'll still play this list over starting with skinks any day. It's what I like putting out on the board for a start.

 

Game by Game breakdown in the spoiler, didn't want to clog the page for anyone not wanting to read it.

Spoiler

 

Brief idea:

Game 1 - Shifting Objectives - Some form of Death, was Arkhan, 2 x 20 reapers and wolves and two dragon riders (One was named character I believe) - Dread saurian almost took out one unit with its bites turn one, and due to him forgetting to put his gravesites down that would've been a numbers advantage out the gate, but then the named dragon took saurian out and I just couldn't get enough D3 damage turns going through to take the two out before they healed. Razordons got me 60 points taking out wolves unit after teleporting the slann for teleports when it was too far gone points wise.

Game 2 - Places of Arcane Power - Stormcast Not Hammers, Stardrake, evocators, sequitors. What more to say, mortal wounds took half my guard out before they got an attack in, and I didn't get enough to shift the evocators off one of the side objectives and despite a valiant effort my sunblood couldn't hold on an extra turn or two against two judicator units, but took one out so I actually killed a bit more points. Little to improve here till they get two wounds or some MW protection.

Game 3- Starstrike - Troggoths (Spare Player Army) - This was a good one, basically just a mighty scrap in the middle after the dread saurian killed an outlying unit. Again I didn't do too much badly here, just too many died after rolling ones but i took plenty of them with me. All three objectives ended up in the centre locations so I couldn't just teleport twice to the outlying corners where he wouldn't have gotten to take them back off me due to lack of speed and numbers. 

Game 4 - Better Part of Valour - Ironjaws - Three drop army so I couldn't get a first turn. Castled one objective which he rightfully ignored and I didn't start moving away from it early enough. Maw Crusha took down one unit of saurus guard defending the other end objective with sunblood. Stacked Waargh took out the dread nastily. Bad teleports after that meant I couldn't get numbers onto his other objectives before he burnt all of them turn 3 for the numbers win. Good old scrap after that however.

Game 5 - Border War - Bretonnia (Mixed Order but mostly the old stuff) - Should've been a win, went down to the 5 turn, His daemon bonus for knights of some kind took me by surprise with one unit down from them and general took out another quick. Summoned two  units of skinks but kept them on my own objective far too many turns and could've at least try teleporting them to the middle objectives to capture or at least deny him scoring them for a turn or two. 

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by SolomonHelsing

[sorokyl]

I know it's not the most competitive, but wanting to play eternal starhost this weekend and wanted to see what you guys thought about the wording on the "Patient Guardians" rule. I think it only applies to our turn but I wanted to see if anyone disagreed. @SolomonHelsing I see you have been playing this what do you think? 
 

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by sorokyl

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

Seems pretty explicit the rule is only referring to the Seraphon combat phase directly following the move & charge phases. There's nothing about it lasting unitl the end of the turn or next phase, so it really seems this Ability is primarily meant as a retaliatory defensive measure after your opponent has charged the Guard on their turn and are stuck in combat with whatever models are left of the unit. Doesn't seem that great, imo.

[SolomonHelsing]

@sorokyl Wilhelm and the Person from your rules question are correct, it's only the following combat phase that turn. 

I had horribly mis-read it for a tournament or two and thought it said for the round but nope. 

Yes it is definitely my strategy to keep them all at 2+ save, hopefully with re-rolling any saves from the priestly trappings priest,

Take a charge and then hit them back harder with what is remaining, which if kept with a model within 5" of the eternity warden the +1 attack adds to the effective-ness.

It definitely helps to have the re-roll ones to hit configuration for the turns where they don't have to move to get into combat, and even then. 

A good example was my troggoth army game at Heat 1, yes alot of my guard had died taking the charge, but  when it got to my next turn I wiped what possibly might've been half of the army from the guard's doing D3 alone. 

Due to the 1 wound/no way to save mortal wounds effectively nature of guard right now, it is tricky to pull off with anything less than 10/10/10.

 

Next time I field Saurus Guard It's the full 20/20/20. Which with my new movement trays means I can pretty much screen the entire table half and still get 2+ saves with +1 attack and +2 Bravery hopefully with the priest having worked. I'll report on that after throne of skulls unless I use that list sooner. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by SolomonHelsing

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

Hello! Do people have the base size for the endless spell umbral portal? This is off topic but y’all are always super helpful and I’d like to convert as it’s the only endless spell I want (already have the book as well)

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

23 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Hello! Do people have the base size for the endless spell umbral portal? This is off topic but y’all are always super helpful and I’d like to convert as it’s the only endless spell I want (already have the book as well)

While it doesn't explicitly say, it looks like the Umbral Spell Portal is on 32mm base. 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Age-Of-Sigmar-Malign-Sorcery-2018-eng

[Calebexnihilo]

Played in the Warhammer Citadel Series this weekend in Texas. Ended up getting 5th place and an automatic bid into their championship round at the end of the year! So seraphon will be representing!! 

It was a very fluffy tournament despite being the Citadel flagship series for North America. 30 possible pts for matches, 30 for sports, 30 for paint, and 10 for narrative. 

They didn't release the Battleplans ahead of time, so I didn't take my normal list. I wanted a Carnosaur in case we had to play game types that require heroes to score. It ended up mostly serving as a distraction peice, but did well at that. 

List :

Slann

Thunderquake 

Carno

2 units of Rippers

Skinks

 

It ended up playing alright for the game types. I went 3-2 which is probably pretty avg for seraphon right now. My fluff points pushed me into the top finishers bracket. 

 

Game 1 - Starstrike vs Gloomspit Gitz - Won this one by sniping most of his low wound heros and I got a double turn and teleported Rippers into his Rogue Idol twice in a row to kill it. He had a bunch of squigs that fled easily once his heroes were gone. His unit of 60 stabbas never really got in the fight. They were held up a few turns by the remaining Rippers. 

 

Game 2 - Escalation vs Stormcast - Lost this one as expected since Thunderquake and Carno had to start in the very corner of the map. Terrible gametype. Also, failed 4 straight teleports on the carno. Lol. He was stuck in the corner! Highlight was the Bastiladons tanking a ton of attacks from some units of evocators! 

 

Game 3 - Battle for the Pass vs Stormcast - Won this one by taking first turn and teleporting skinks into range of his back objective which was only held by a hand full of models. Got Rippers on the side objectives and then camped my objective with Thunderquake.... Then just turtle and held on. At one point he had his Stardrake tying up my Two Bastiladons and it was a pillow fight! No damage done to either side for two rounds at least! In the end, teleporting units around in the end game won me this one. 

 

Game 4 - Three Places of Power vs Nighthaunt - Won this one by just two points despite tabling him. I got the turn 1/2 double turn and took out the important heroes. But he got my Carnosaur with a big unit of banshee. This one came down to me Summoning an extra EoTG and teleporting it to an open objective. 

 

Game 5 - Duality of Death vs Order Draconis - I lost this one badly. Nearly my entire army was gone except the Slann by the end. He was running 4 dragons and some knights. He played very well and got a few absolutely devastating double turns at crucial points. 

 

Fun tournament and Seraphon was represented well by at least two other seraphon armies and one SCE that brought skinks. 

[knightish]

Hi Everyone

Long time lucker. 

Just wondering what people are thinking as ways of handling the new books Skaven and FEC? 
Do you think your lists will have to change to meet these new armies?

I am currently building and painting a double Shadowstrike Starhost. 
Lost of skinks, rippers and summoning. Anyone have concerns or is everyone just camping out until the new book drops?

- Will

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

I'm interested in feedback on this question, as well. My main opponents primary army is Skaven.

[Future]

I don't think there is a way to 'handle' it. I think it will be board control and outplaying your opponent. Shadow strike + 4x4 razordons and skinks. We don't have any stat lines or rules to contest those fights, but we didn't before either. Its not like we could line up with deepkin, or dok and win. Board control, screening, and mobility is the only path I know to 5-0 an event.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Future

[knightish]

2 hours ago, Future said:

I don't think there is a way to 'handle' it. I think it will be board control and outplaying your opponent. Shadow strike + 4x4 razordons and skinks. We don't have any stat lines or rules to contest those fights, but we didn't before either. Its not like we could line up with deepkin, or dok and win. Board control, screening, and mobility is the only path I know to 5-0 an event.

Seems like a fair assessment. 
Do you think Terrorgiests will make running our beast heavy lists a bit more tricky?
The risk of multiple bodies doing 6 mortal wounds etc? 

Probably pretty Meta specific eh

 

[Future]

Most likely. I fought one the other weekend with a basti and it tanked for a round. I don't think its very competitive though, 2d6 is really swingy and 280 is a lot of points. I've heard good and bad things from the snakes attack but haven't run it myself. I would say given its one model its easiest to keep feeding it 10 skinks and try to tarpit.