AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion

[The Red King]

On 11/20/2018 at 6:15 AM, DionTheWanderer said:

That is incredibly creepy. Nice work.

How's it made?

He's actually a Hordes figure "The lord of the feast. Except I carved the face and moved the deer skull down, as well as swapping his sword with a bow and quiver from the melusai kit. Wanted to make sure he stands out from my other two wayeatchers as he will be the general most likely.

 

Also thank you. I can't wait to get the rest of my characters painted up at least.

[The Red King]

Don't know how to add this to my above post but GW called out Prince Maesa as getting another short story in the advent calendar. HYPE!

[GM_Monkey]

12 hours ago, The Red King said:

Don't know how to add this to my above post but GW called out Prince Maesa as getting another short story in the advent calendar. HYPE!

 

"Finally, beloved heroes return, such as Hamilcar Bear-Eater, who is eager to prove that Shadespire holds no terrors for a hero such as him, and Prince Maesa, venturing into a graveyard in Ghur where we’re sure there’ll be no hideous undead beasts at all…"

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/21/coming-soon-the-2018-black-library-advent-calendar/

 

Nice find, man.

[Aloth_Corfiser]

Just another List:
I actually never had a long-term plan and could not have foreseen how my collection would turn out when I bought my first box (Eternal Guard), which were still on square bases. Eventually I wanted a Waystone Pathfinder Battalion that included all Wanderer Heroes:

Realm of Origin (Hysh)

Waywatcher (General) 120 P.

Spellweaver (Heartwood Staff) 100 P.

Nomad Prince 80 P.

Wayfinder 100 P.

Waystrider 80 P.

1x 10 Eternal Guard 70 P.

1x 20 Glade Guard (option to have 30) 240P.

1x20 Sisters of the Watch 360 P.

1x 10 Sisters of the Watch 180 P.

1x 5 Sisters of the Thorn 220 P.

1x 5 Sisters of the Thorn 220 P.

Waystone Pathfinders 200 P.

1970 Points and 105 Wounds.

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by Aloth_Corfiser

[The Red King]

Okay this time a completed and based version.

Edited November 26, 2018 by The Red King
Putting picture back up.

[Gwendar]

In regards to my last list post, does anyone have good experience with Kurnoths? I planned to run them with Greatswords in conjunction with the 2x30 EG, but I am wondering if the Scythes would be a better choice despite math saying that they will put out less wounds on average than swords.

I'm considering Scythes as they would be able to hit over-top the EG depending on how the charges\pile-ins go and would work better with the Kurnoths 1" pile-in restricting ability. Thoughts or experiences?

[overtninja]

I just bought a box of them myself, so I'll let you know how things go with mine. Scythes are nice because of the range, and if your local meta is full of high armor their rend is probably worth it.

I have had really mixed results with EG, though. They are really only good as a speed bump and mobile wall - they don't put out enough attacks for wound generation, but they are really great at holding the line while the rest of your dudes get away or close in for to actually do damage.

The idea of attacking over your EG with scythe Kurnoth is a decent one, but that would be committing two units to a totally defensive strategy, and I think Kurnoth are better for actually looking for combat, like Dryads. They do want to be in the woods, just like EG do, but they have the attacks to do well on their own.

[Popisdead]

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

In regards to my last list post, does anyone have good experience with Kurnoths? I planned to run them with Greatswords in conjunction with the 2x30 EG, but I am wondering if the Scythes would be a better choice despite math saying that they will put out less wounds on average than swords.

I'm considering Scythes as they would be able to hit over-top the EG depending on how the charges\pile-ins go and would work better with the Kurnoths 1" pile-in restricting ability. Thoughts or experiences?

Scythes.  Reach and rend.

There are maybe 2 people who fly the Sword-flag in the Sylvaneth thread but 6 Scythes do more damage than 3 Swords, especially if you see a bit of luck in your opponent with rolling 6+ saves. 

Also Rangers perform better behind EG since they have better reach than sword-hunters and don't take up your ally portion.  Hunters are tanky, you want that tankyness to be part of your use.

[Gwendar]

4 hours ago, overtninja said:

The idea of attacking over your EG with scythe Kurnoth is a decent one, but that would be committing two units to a totally defensive strategy, and I think Kurnoth are better for actually looking for combat, like Dryads. They do want to be in the woods, just like EG do, but they have the attacks to do well on their own.

The initial idea is 2x3 Kurnoths and 2x30 EG to give myself 2 "regiments" worth of board control depending on the objective. SotW and GG will go where they are needed. Truthfully, I've considered dropping 30 EG for another unit of SotW or GG but haven't decided on anything final yet.
 

3 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Scythes.  Reach and rend.

There are maybe 2 people who fly the Sword-flag in the Sylvaneth thread but 6 Scythes do more damage than 3 Swords, especially if you see a bit of luck in your opponent with rolling 6+ saves. 

Also Rangers perform better behind EG since they have better reach than sword-hunters and don't take up your ally portion.  Hunters are tanky, you want that tankyness to be part of your use.

Hmm, I never gave much of a look at Rangers. Math seems to suggest 10 alone would do a bit better than Scythes. Maybe 3x10 would be better over the 2x3 Scythe Kurnoths?

[Warboss Gorbolg]

6 hours ago, Gwendar said:

In regards to my last list post, does anyone have good experience with Kurnoths? I planned to run them with Greatswords in conjunction with the 2x30 EG, but I am wondering if the Scythes would be a better choice despite math saying that they will put out less wounds on average than swords.

I'm considering Scythes as they would be able to hit over-top the EG depending on how the charges\pile-ins go and would work better with the Kurnoths 1" pile-in restricting ability. Thoughts or experiences?

No direct experience but within the context of Wanderers, I would think that the extra rend of Scythes would be particularly valuable.

[overtninja]

13 hours ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:

No direct experience but within the context of Wanderers, I would think that the extra rend of Scythes would be particularly valuable.

Like I said, depends on your local meta. Some places have a lot of demons or ghosts, so the are living by their FNP saves and/or just not caring about rend at all. I'm all for the extra rend generally because Wanderers really don't have any -2 rend otherwise.

As the above poster said though, Rangers are actually super great for their points. Having both Kurnoth and those dudes running around chopping things is definitely what I want for melee in my local meta, which is full of Chaos dudes, but also full of ghosts, which makes the extra rend a non-thing. The real sell for Kurnoth is that they are super tanky and draw attention - they have to be dealt with or they are going to maraud across the field and mangle several things, and unlike Rangers they can take a charge and absorb damage.

[Popisdead]

18 hours ago, Gwendar said:

The initial idea is 2x3 Kurnoths and 2x30 EG to give myself 2 "regiments" worth of board control depending on the objective. SotW and GG will go where they are needed. Truthfully, I've considered dropping 30 EG for another unit of SotW or GG but haven't decided on anything final yet.
 

Hmm, I never gave much of a look at Rangers. Math seems to suggest 10 alone would do a bit better than Scythes. Maybe 3x10 would be better over the 2x3 Scythe Kurnoths?

It is obvious at this point Wanderer shooting/gun line is get pegged down a notch.  The BoC book showed what synergy  can do for units and man,.. there are a lot of Wanderer warscrolls I want a re-write for.  But I would start looking more at combat oriented since shooting isn't going to get me anywhere, at least.

2 hours ago, overtninja said:

Like I said, depends on your local meta. Some places have a lot of demons or ghosts, so the are living by their FNP saves and/or just not caring about rend at all.

This is good and something I neglected as much as the flip-side sword argument.  My local meta doesn't have ghosts that I've faced and I see a lot of saves.  Overtninja makes great points as well. 

I also have 6 Sword Hunters.  But I never run them #BecauseBlightkings.

[overtninja]

Yeah, one of my regular local opponents plays fat nurgle dudes, I really am tempted to run hunters with scythes for my games with him, because those dudes are just too flabby to die and it's annoying.

1 hour ago, Popisdead said:

It is obvious at this point Wanderer shooting/gun line is get pegged down a notch.  The BoC book showed what synergy  can do for units and man,.. there are a lot of Wanderer warscrolls I want a re-write for.  But I would start looking more at combat oriented since shooting isn't going to get me anywhere, at least.

Being an immobile gunline or a teleporting gunline is kind of a rubbish niche, to be honest. I'd love to see our units be more on-table mobile, so we don't have to park on a place and shoot until we get overwhelmed. It's super important to have melee in AoS, not just as blockers but also to participate in one of the primary phases of the game, if only to do mop-up for your shooting units. We've got options for that, but currently Wanderers get rewarded too much for playing a bunkering force rather than a skirmishing/ambushing force.

For real though, Rangers are wonderful for their cost, not only because of their stats but because they are on 25mm bases and they have 2" range. I've only got ten so far but I'm tempted to go up to 20 and create a serious melee threat unit that has the option to teleport right into my opponent's backfield and get choppy. I'm also a big fan of Dryads as fast, hard-hitting dudes. They are a great addition for extra melee bite. I've been allying them into my Wanderers since I've started playing and they've always done good work for me.

[Aloth_Corfiser]

I had a game against a Beasts of Chaos Player yesterday.  Because this was his 3rd Aos game ever (though he is an experienced Fantasy Player) I played with an easy List and made him go first to see what he would come up with.  He had chosen the Darkwalker Herd and had deployed many units in reserve so I was anxious
He promptly appeared with 30 Gors at the back of my army and charged my 10 SotW who where garrisoned in a tower. The Gors didn't last long due to SotT coming in to help during my melee Phase.
On the other flank I unleashed 31 Bodkins upon his Bullgors hiding in a forest, leaving only one Bullgor with one wound - he got charged by SotT and was gone.
Then everything went downhill for me as he unleashed 30 Bestigors which he could deploy in his 2nd Movement Phase onto my 30 Glade Guard and 5 SotT -
we played a bit hit and run after that but he would have won anyway due to objective Points. Bestigors are no joke they had 3 Attacks each at 3+ 3+ with -1 Rend.
Needless to say my SotT and GG were obliterated. ^^

It all seemed fitting - since the only lore I found out about Wanderers when I was perusing his Battletome, was basically:
"When Nurgle invaded Ghyran the Wanderers fled, --> Darkwalkers chase them---> instead of putting up a fight the Wanderers make efforts to split up and run for their lives ----> but alas many Aelves get slaughtered.... the end."   ;(

[Gwendar]

@Aloth_Corfiser Thanks for the write-up. Sounds like SotT did a bit of work for you. I bought a box previously but hadn't intended to use them..may give them a shot. For their points I really felt like filling the army with more bodies would be a better idea, despite how good their spell is on EG.

[overtninja]

SotT are definitely not worth their points right now, even if their signature spell is bonkers. The sad thing is that it's mostly bonkers for other armies, who can ally SotT in.  Hopefully they get a points drop in the GHB2019!

[Aloth_Corfiser]

5 hours ago, Gwendar said:

@Aloth_Corfiser Thanks for the write-up. Sounds like SotT did a bit of work for you. I bought a box previously but hadn't intended to use them..may give them a shot. For their points I really felt like filling the army with more bodies would be a better idea, despite how good their spell is on EG.

Yeah I think, I wanted to glorify them a bit - the Gors already suffered from overwatch fire and the Sisters shooting into them during my shooting phase. In my opinion they are also overcosted but I find them more fun to use compared to Wildriders. 
My intention in that game was also to buff the SotT with my General who had a Viridescent Shawl giving them +1 to casting and unbinding but the Sisters were always a tiny bit out of position. :)

[Popisdead]

21 hours ago, overtninja said:

For real though, Rangers are wonderful for their cost, not only because of their stats but because they are on 25mm bases and they have 2" range.

I think the issue people have with Rangers is White Lions and Executioners have some really good abilities for fewer points.  But it's a vacuum unless you are playing mixed order and have those units.  Thus people miss this key detail constantly which as done well for me.

16 hours ago, Aloth_Corfiser said:

He promptly appeared with 30 Gors at the back of my army and charged my 10 SotW who where garrisoned in a tower. The Gors didn't last long due to SotT coming in to help during my melee Phase.

...
It all seemed fitting - since the only lore I found out about Wanderers when I was perusing his Battletome, was basically:
"When Nurgle invaded Ghyran the Wanderers fled, --> Darkwalkers chase them---> instead of putting up a fight the Wanderers make efforts to split up and run for their lives ----> but alas many Aelves get slaughtered.... the end."   ;(

Gors,.. also suck. 

 

Neat lore though.  I quite liked the rulebook lore about the Kurnouth being whom Alarielle goes and romps it up with seasonally.  I feel they are kinda bringing back a bit of the old lore people still want rather than a 100% re-write of the universe.

[The Red King]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but does anyone here have the sisters of twilight (just the sisters and not the dragon) that they would be interested in selling or trading? I really want them to serve as the figureheads of my army because I want to base my dark forest elves around the "old tales" of them.

[overtninja]

Trying to put these Kurnoth together is very annoying, they seem carefully designed to not allow for weapon swaps.  I want to keep the options to run them as whatever I please, but the archer variety uses different heads than the melee dudes and the scythes and swords share a shoulderpad. Super annoying!

Given the option, I think I'll go with scythes anyway, but it's a shame I can't swap things out. 

[The Red King]

5 hours ago, overtninja said:

Trying to put these Kurnoth together is very annoying, they seem carefully designed to not allow for weapon swaps.  I want to keep the options to run them as whatever I please, but the archer variety uses different heads than the melee dudes and the scythes and swords share a shoulderpad. Super annoying!

Given the option, I think I'll go with scythes anyway, but it's a shame I can't swap things out. 

Yeah even magnetizing I had to give up. Maybe if you just magnetize at the hands and resign yourself to some wonky pose?

[Aezeal]

On 11/27/2018 at 5:36 PM, Gwendar said:

In regards to my last list post, does anyone have good experience with Kurnoths? I planned to run them with Greatswords in conjunction with the 2x30 EG, but I am wondering if the Scythes would be a better choice despite math saying that they will put out less wounds on average than swords.

I'm considering Scythes as they would be able to hit over-top the EG depending on how the charges\pile-ins go and would work better with the Kurnoths 1" pile-in restricting ability. Thoughts or experiences?

I've only played hunters in my sylvaneth army, but they aren't worse in wanderer: so I guess they'll be just as great. They are probably better at what they do than their wanderer equivalents except for bodycount in objective taking. If you REALLY play them behind EG you should go scythes. I do however thing that EG are great objective defenders and Hunters might be objective TAKERS. And then they are about equal (I myself often take swords or a mix but most seem to prefer full scythes).

Edited November 30, 2018 by Aezeal

[Gwendar]

@Aezeal Yeah, probably what I will go with. I think Rangers could be better (and damage wise they are on average) but aesthetically I really would love having the Kurnoths, plus if they need to go off on their own for any reason, they need little to no support unlike Rangers.

I was going to do full shooting at one point, but I think having a good balance will be more beneficial, although now it's swinging a little more towards melee heavy with only 2 ranged units (excluding 2 Waywatchers) and the bulk being made up of 2x30 EG and 2x3 Kurnoths. Which is fine since the objective game is what really matters in the end.

[overtninja]

21 hours ago, The Red King said:

Yeah even magnetizing I had to give up. Maybe if you just magnetize at the hands and resign yourself to some wonky pose?

Being as I am a cunning artificer, I have devised a cheap solution to my woes - craft store sticky-tack! (the sort you use to put posters up on your walls) It's a good stop-gap until I can figure out how to magnetize things (or forever, since I'm cheap). At any rate, they are ready for play tomorrow, so we'll see how they do.

@Gwendar Let us know how you do with that setup, it should be really grindy. If you want more punch, try with one block of EG and a big block of 20 Rangers. It would be an extra 140 over your double EG blocks, but you'd have a unit that would make any monster-heavy list cry, and still have a good bunker option as well depending on scenario needs.

 

[Kramer]

On 11/27/2018 at 5:56 PM, overtninja said:

The idea of attacking over your EG with scythe Kurnoth is a decent one, but that would be committing two units to a totally defensive strategy, 

To be honest I’m just interested in wanderers as a future project but just wanted to mention the above isn’t really the case. 

Yes defensively would fully protect your hunters. (My equivalent is 2” ironguts supported by gnoblars. )But more often I try to charge my iroguts so the only one touches the opponent. Preferably on a side model. Then charge the gnoblars in so you minimise attacks into the ironguts. This even allows me to select them last as my opponent hitting my gnoblars only gives me options to open up pile in. 

Tomorrow I can draw something if that helps. It’s hard to describe the move concisely by typing on your phone