AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[mikethefish]

On 11/15/2019 at 8:23 AM, Beliman said:

IMO, If I have a 40/60 but the gameplay is nice, fun and fluid without taking 20 minuts for just one phase (that shooty phase...), then I will be happy.

I mean...to be fair, most armies take a long time during at least one phase of the game (melee, hero, etc).  It's not a problem of the army - merely that the army focuses on a particular fighting style.

[Beliman]

@mikethefish You know what I tryied to say. Even the armies that are focused on one phase have more tools to play around.

[mikethefish]

2 hours ago, Beliman said:

@mikethefish You know what I tryied to say. Even the armies that are focused on one phase have more tools to play around.

Oh I certainly know - I just disagree.  I think it's a combo of most armies being a bit more limited than you imagine, and the KO army also being a bit more flexible than you imagine.

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, mikethefish said:

Oh I certainly know - I just disagree.  I think it's a combo of most armies being a bit more limited than you imagine, and the KO army also being a bit more flexible than you imagine.

Yeah I already know that there are other "less flexible" armies. But I prefer to be compared to armies that have a lot of styles to play (in a non-competive way) than armies that are worst imo.

Always aim for the bigger quarry/ bounty, that's the way XD!!

[Rahxephon]

Is there a way to filter on here for posts with images or something. I know theres a fair few posted in this thread and wouldnt mind flicking through to see others models. Just not so into sifting past 70 odd pages.

Anyway finally got around to finishing a squad after having them sit half complete for months. Has anyone got some tips or good links for guides on painting old lamps? Ones with dirtied glass where you see the yellow glow coming through from underneath but its browned around the edges?

 

[Arkanaut Admiral]

I love the paint job on those Arkanauts Rahxephon.

Also I said the other day I’d share my ideas for updates to the Overlord warscrolls, but I’m having trouble posting up my custom warscrolls here.  I put it down to Apple.

So could I just share the basic ideas for the heroes to start with?  Here:

The Admiral: increased the to wound characteristic of his gun to 3+ to bring it into line with other Order firearms, and jacked up his Skalfhammer to this:

range: 1”, attacks: 3, to hit: 3+, to wound: 3+, rend: -2, damage: D3

I’ve also tidied up his abilities.  He’s now got a “Boulder-crushing Strike” (1 mortal wound in addition to other damage on an unmodified to wound roll of 6 with his skalfhammer), Master Of The Skies (same as before) and a simplified command ability (18” ignore battleshock bubble).  The other abilities have all been dropped.  They were just clutter these days anyway.

The Navigator: largely the same, but he can now outflank the sky vessel he’s embarked upon.

The Endrinmaster: largely the same also.

The Khemist: changed his augmentation ability to +1 attack on all weapons for 1 unit wholly within 12”, including sky vessels.  This sounds op but it’ll make more sense when you see the other changes.  Also working on his shooting ability.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Arkanaut Admiral

[Rahxephon]

I feel like the endrinmaster needs a bit of changes as I've never really been able to see a reason to take to him.

The couple games I've done the ships die pretty quick so you don't often get a chance to repair. And its not that much anyway.

One thing that could work i think is if he gives a ship withing his range or embarkment an equivalent feel no pain.

Why change the skalfhammer to D3? I quite like the consistency and he's got no harness to supercharge.

[jake3991]

Honestly a new KO book doesn't need much, points cut on the ironclad and a cleanup of the patchwork of nerfs KO got hit with.    A combat activation mechanic would be sweet but I'm not holding my breath.  With most of the shooting hitting on 4s and none of it being able to cause mortals there are definitely some armies that are tough matchups (death, anything with -1 to hit etc.) so a change to that would definitely be great as well, access to double hits on 6s would honestly do it without ruffling to many feathers in the community.  One thing you don't want is a OP book as it just leads to where KO currently stand.  

[Arkanaut Admiral]

1 hour ago, Rahxephon said:

I feel like the endrinmaster needs a bit of changes as I've never really been able to see a reason to take to him.

The couple games I've done the ships die pretty quick so you don't often get a chance to repair. And its not that much anyway.

One thing that could work i think is if he gives a ship withing his range or embarkment an equivalent feel no pain.

Why change the skalfhammer to D3? I quite like the consistency and he's got no harness to supercharge.

Good points.  For the ships survivability I had them all with a 3+ save and the Tireless Endrinrigger ability is now an automatic healing of D3 wounds rather than the pathetic 1 wound on a d6 roll of 4+.  As for the endrinmaster, how about this...the same “More Pressure” ability that a steam tank commander has.  Instead of healing D3 wounds, the endrinmaster can attempt to boost the engines.  Roll 2d6.  If the result is less than the number of wounds allocated to the ship, it takes D3 mortal wounds.  If not, ships movement is increased by 2”.  Now, every single one of the characters can boost a ship: admiral lets it run and shoot, navigator increases speed and can outflank it, endrinmaster can either heal it or increase speed, and aether khemist can boost all the guns.

As for the skalfhammer, I was bringing it into line with the great weapon type profiles of other order heroes.  Specifically, a Freeguild foot general.  But if you think Damage 2 is better than D3 I could support that.  Is the extra attack in exchange for a reduced to wound stat ok?

1 hour ago, jake3991 said:

Honestly a new KO book doesn't need much, points cut on the ironclad and a cleanup of the patchwork of nerfs KO got hit with.    A combat activation mechanic would be sweet but I'm not holding my breath.  With most of the shooting hitting on 4s and none of it being able to cause mortals there are definitely some armies that are tough matchups (death, anything with -1 to hit etc.) so a change to that would definitely be great as well, access to double hits on 6s would honestly do it without ruffling to many feathers in the community.  One thing you don't want is a OP book as it just leads to where KO currently stand.  

It is true that they don’t need much.  It’s mostly a matter of a points and stats update.

Here’s how I hope the ironclad looks like in future for example:

Movement: 8” Wounds: 18 Save: 3+ Bravery: 8

Great Sky Cannon: range: 36” attacks: 1 to hit: 4+ to wound: 2+ rend: -2 damage: d6

Great Skyhook: range: 36” attacks: 1 to hit: 4+ to wound: 2+ rend: -2 damage: d3 (moves ship d6 inches towards target)

Aethermatic Volleycannon: range: 18” attacks: 12 to hit: 4+ to wound: 3+ rend: -1 damage: 1

Aethershock torpodeos: range: 24” attacks: 4 to hit: 4+ to wound: 3+ rend: -1 damage: d3 

Aethershot Carbines: range: 12” attacks: 12-6 to hit: 3+ to wound: 3+ rend: -1 damage: 1

Fragmentation charges: range: 1” attacks: 2d6-d3 to hit: 4+ to wound: 3+ rend: -1 damage: 1

Belaying Valves: range: 1” attacks: 10 to hit: 4+ to wound: 4+ rend: - damage: 1

Carries 20-25 Overlords.  They can now shoot, fight and use abilities whilst embarked (but can be targeted in return)

aetheric navigation: can outflank (yes I know I said this about the navigator but I have a different idea for him now)

tireless Endrinrigger: heals D3 wounds every hero phase

Grudgesettler Bombs: roll a d6 for 1 enemy unit this model flew over.  On a 2+ they take D6 mortal wounds.

supremacy mines: if enemy fliers charge to within 1” of this model roll a d6.  On a 4+ they take D6 mortal wounds.

detonation drills: if enemy non fliers charge to within 1” of this model roll a d6.  On a 4+ they fight at the end of the combat phase.

Flagship: 1 order per turn in shooting phase:

Fire at will: +1 attack to missile weapons.
Prove your worth: +3 inches to missile weapon ranges.

Don’t let up: can retreat and shoot in same turn.

With these changes, an ironclad can finally be the big floating fortress it’s supposed to be.

 

 

[gmaleron]

Hey guys, looking at starting an army of Kharadron Overlords just because I've always loved the models and being a long time 40K IG player like the idea of an army that plays similar. However I'm having some trouble putting a list together, basically I'm looking for something that can be decently competitive, not expecting to win every game but being able to win a game here there and being competitive than others is the goal. What would be a good 2k list to aim for since money is a little tight and I'd rather only make purchases to contribute to this? What I'm eyeballing at the moment based on some initial studying:

-x2 Khemists or Navigators

-x3 Battleline 

-x10-20 Thunderers

-x2 Ironclads

[Rahxephon]

The ironclad looks reasonable, like the retreat and shoot but it could be a bit strong as it can shoot a lot.

With the longer weapon ranges it also makes the longer range order not as significant (other than for carbines). I think I'd be happy with 30" on the big gun, and 24 for the other ships.

Even with the wound buff to the skyhook i still dont see my self taking it over the cannon. I feel its too unreliable to incorporate it in tactically, and otherwise often not wanted. You need a fair few shots to land an unsaved wound with it. How id like ships skyhooks to be:

24", 4+, 3+, -2, D3

Rules: +1 to hit against units that can fly. In addition, if you successfully hit  while shooting at a single model unit, halve that models movement characteristic until your next hero phase.

If i had a 50/50 chance to slow down some big monsters I'd consider skyhooks a fair bit more.

Gmaleron, if you're wanting to buy towards a specific list I'd say its better to slow grow it. I think you could safely build towards a 1000pt list with units that will always be staples. Then once we get some new attention from GW (hopefully soon), look to see whats the current good pickings then.

I wouldn't look to double up on ironclads. If you can find some the skyfleet box sets, those are pretty decent start up sets. The KO start collecting set isnt that good for starting to collect...

If you look to pickup 40 arkanauts, 9 balloons and a khemist, those will always be useful I think. And can also comprise a 1k list. 

[jake3991]

Agreed on the ironclad, however I doubt we will see the units inside a ship able to shoot, that sounds like a mechanic that would be unhealthy for the game.  But the idea of the ships being force multiplers would be really great to see, more than just 400 points for low drops and deep strike with one city.  

[gmaleron]

2 hours ago, Rahxephon said:

Gmaleron, if you're wanting to buy towards a specific list I'd say its better to slow grow it. I think you could safely build towards a 1000pt list with units that will always be staples. Then once we get some new attention from GW (hopefully soon), look to see whats the current good pickings then.

I wouldn't look to double up on ironclads. If you can find some the skyfleet box sets, those are pretty decent start up sets. The KO start collecting set isnt that good for starting to collect...

If you look to pickup 40 arkanauts, 9 balloons and a khemist, those will always be useful I think. And can also comprise a 1k list. 

Thanks for the advice, would Frigates be a worthy investment? Or would i be better off foot slogging my Arkanauts and putting specialist units in my ships?

Edited November 18, 2019 by gmaleron

[Kramer]

8 hours ago, gmaleron said:

Hey guys, looking at starting an army of Kharadron Overlords just because I've always loved the models and being a long time 40K IG player like the idea of an army that plays similar. However I'm having some trouble putting a list together, basically I'm looking for something that can be decently competitive, not expecting to win every game but being able to win a game here there and being competitive than others is the goal. What would be a good 2k list to aim for since money is a little tight and I'd rather only make purchases to contribute to this? What I'm eyeballing at the moment based on some initial studying:

-x2 Khemists or Navigators

-x3 Battleline 

-x10-20 Thunderers

-x2 Ironclads

For me we have three main strengths + some smaller tricks. Sadly all three don’t fit at 2K. 
the first one, and my favourite, is a frigate with thunderers and a khemist in the Ziflin skyports. (In cancon a player used it to great effect with 14 thunderers and 1 khemist. Those games are viewable on YouTube: https://youtu.be/63XyZKXp-kU ).  The ziflin artefact lets you set up the frigate with passengers anywhere on the field turn one. It’s requires a lot of skill but when you pull it off, you can snipe with the thunderers, charge and flee for extra movement, the khemist can force out of sequence bravery tests with the right artefact. and of course it offers a lot of board control. Just make sure you equip all thunderers with rifles. 

the second one I personally don’t like and don’t take. 30 or 40 arkanauts unit all with skyhooks and a khemist. By giving them double shots, the plus 1 vs heroes and monsters, rend, the range and d3 damage means you can take apart your opponents list piece by piece. Does require good target priority choices. 

Lastly; big group of endrinriggers with khemist buff on the charge. Say no more as it’s not more complicated than that. My personal experience is that it’s usually better to go for the turn 2 charge not the first turn. When I try turn 1 I usually get overwhelmed as the opponents army isn’t spread out yet. 

personally I play option 1 and 2 in a list. It’s fun, it rewards good play and it’s a better play experience as an opponent then big shooting line. (Which is fine but I mostly play friends and want to keep them  )

other ideas that have been floating around*:

skywardens with piles behind a screen. With their two inch range you can let your opponent charge your screens. And pile them in to poke over the heads of your screen. Maybe even allied ironbreakers/longbeards. This helps you protect option two. Afterwards you can always use their speed for objective grabbing  

Evocaters are great allies. Still great in combat and they give you a unbind per unit.

smaller squads of skywardens to pressure opponents objectives as mobile shooting units.

3 gunhaulers and a frigate in a battalion that lets you re-roll hits. So lots of moving cannons, re-rolls but it’s been suggested multiple times in this thread but haven’t seen anyone actually reporting in this thread that it really works.

if you want to take the frigate for its shooting. It might be good to know that Brokk does as much if not more damage. That’s without his close combat output.

as said above its likely a that KO gets a refresh in 2020 but no indication when as far as I know. So waiting seems prudent but you might be waiting a long time. Personally I would buy only after painting the last as a best of both situations solution. I’m also willing to bet the special weapons for arkanauts will be changed to one of each per ten so it matches the box.

hope this helps 

 

* see what I did there 🤭

Edited November 18, 2019 by Kramer
Added linm

[gmaleron]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

For me we have three main strengths + some smaller tricks. Sadly all three don’t fit at 2K. 
the first one, and my favourite, is a frigate with thunderers and a khemist in the Ziflin skyports. (In cancon a player used it to great effect with 14 thunderers and 1 khemist. Those games are viewable on YouTube: https://youtu.be/63XyZKXp-kU ).  The ziflin artefact lets you set up the frigate with passengers anywhere on the field turn one. It’s requires a lot of skill but when you pull it off, you can snipe with the thunderers, charge and flee for extra movement, the khemist can force out of sequence bravery tests with the right artefact. and of course it offers a lot of board control. Just make sure you equip all thunderers with rifles. 

I appreciate the feedback and I am definitely liking and leaning towards this tactic. However how did he get 14 in the squad? I thought you had to take them in groups of five?

[Gecktron]

44 minutes ago, gmaleron said:

I appreciate the feedback and I am definitely liking and leaning towards this tactic. However how did he get 14 in the squad? I thought you had to take them in groups of five?

You have to pay for 15 but you can chose to not take all the miniatures you paid for. So its still 270 points but you now you have space for a Khemist. 

[Kramer]

3 hours ago, gmaleron said:

I appreciate the feedback and I am definitely liking and leaning towards this tactic. However how did he get 14 in the squad? I thought you had to take them in groups of five?

Indeed as @Gecktron says. You pay by the increments but you can take less if you want. 
It’s a really rewarding playstyle. Definitely check the streams of those cancon games. The KO player uses to great effect. Sniping important characters turn 1, countering the deepkin anti shooting rules and grabbing objectives turn 1. All the while combined with great target prioritising with a big block of arkanauts. 

This thread, when not wishlisting new rules , is a great place to discuss different tactics. 
 

just as an added idea with the deepstriking frigate. I’ve also had great fun by dropping slightly over the objective then jump the thunderers out at the back. Now I have two lines to slow down opponents.  Most armies are super fast though so you need a bit of luck with the terrain to help block out space. 

[Arkanaut Admiral]

@ Kramer 

Am I over doing it with the wish listing?  It seems like I am. 😅

[Kramer]

20 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

@ Kramer 

Am I over doing it with the wish listing?  It seems like I am. 😅

Haha wasn’t meant as criticism. If you enjoy it go for it! I don’t mind. 

[gmaleron]

Thats awesome and good to know guys thanks again! Already kind of watch watched through some of those battle reports and I noticed he used a lot of sky missles, are those the better choice when compared to the minigun for the basic guys? And is the battleship and the smaller gunboats not worth taking? Sorry for all the questions just have a limited budget and want to prioritize my spending!

Edited November 18, 2019 by gmaleron

[Kramer]

3 minutes ago, gmaleron said:

Thats awesome and good to know guys thanks again! Already kind of watch watched through some of those battle reports and I noticed he used a lot of sky missles, are those the better choice when compared to the volley gun for the basic guys? And is the battleship and the smaller gunboats not worth taking? Sorry for all the questions just have a limited budget and want to prioritize my spending!

The last bit is hard. Because when KO is updated everything we advice might be invalid. Currently the ironclad seems overpriced for what it actually adds to your army. The frigate om the other hand is invaluable to me because it allows me to drop thunderers in. 

skyhooks are better than volley guns when you expect to buff them with a khemist. Especially in a big group. 

but honestly to both of the above points. I reckon it will change. The big centrepiece model should be take. So GW will improve it. And the arkanauts should be one of each special weapon per 10 as that’s what comes in the box. Again this is just me making a guess. 

[WatcherintheWater]

I'm taking my KO to a local doubles tournament this weekend. Each team takes two 1K points armies. Here's what I was thinking:

• Barak Urbaz (additional footnote: There's no trading with some people)
• Aether Khemist w/ Ignax Scales & Stickler for the Code (Surrender is rarely profitable)
• 10 Arkanaut Company w/ Skyhooks
• 30 Arkanaut Company w/ Skyhooks
• 9 Endrinriggers w/ 2 Grapnels
• My partner is using Cities. His list is basically 50 Phoenix Guard, a wizard, & a Phoenix Guard Hero. Should work well since his durable guard units can keep my squishy stuff safe.

Here's the question: Is one Aether Khemist enough at 1K or should I take a second and drop the Endrinriggers down to 6 (no grapnels)? If I can keep him alive, I'd rather have the extra Endrinriggers, and Urbaz gives me 2 buffs anyway, but I worry that some opponents will be able to take him our which pretty dramatically reduces my firepower.

[jake3991]

11 minutes ago, WatcherintheWater said:

I'm taking my KO to a local doubles tournament this weekend. Each team takes two 1K points armies. Here's what I was thinking:

• Barak Urbaz (additional footnote: There's no trading with some people)
• Aether Khemist w/ Ignax Scales & Stickler for the Code (Surrender is rarely profitable)
• 10 Arkanaut Company w/ Skyhooks
• 30 Arkanaut Company w/ Skyhooks
• 9 Endrinriggers w/ 2 Grapnels
• My partner is using Cities. His list is basically 50 Phoenix Guard, a wizard, & a Phoenix Guard Hero. Should work well since his durable guard units can keep my squishy stuff safe.

Here's the question: Is one Aether Khemist enough at 1K or should I take a second and drop the Endrinriggers down to 6 (no grapnels)? If I can keep him alive, I'd rather have the extra Endrinriggers, and Urbaz gives me 2 buffs anyway, but I worry that some opponents will be able to take him our which pretty dramatically reduces my firepower.

I think one should be fine, it would be nice to buff the riggers you have but its tough at 1k, you'd get 6 extra attacks with the riggers but 3 extra by just taking 3 more models.  Consider taking the ragged cloak on your Khemist, you might find that your friends Phoenix guard keep him out of melee, the ragged cloak can make your character much more survivable against shooting. 

[Kramer]

On 11/19/2019 at 3:28 PM, WatcherintheWater said:

I'm taking my KO to a local doubles tournament this weekend. Each team takes two 1K points armies. Here's what I was thinking:

• Barak Urbaz (additional footnote: There's no trading with some people)
• Aether Khemist w/ Ignax Scales & Stickler for the Code (Surrender is rarely profitable)
• 10 Arkanaut Company w/ Skyhooks
• 30 Arkanaut Company w/ Skyhooks
• 9 Endrinriggers w/ 2 Grapnels
• My partner is using Cities. His list is basically 50 Phoenix Guard, a wizard, & a Phoenix Guard Hero. Should work well since his durable guard units can keep my squishy stuff safe.

Here's the question: Is one Aether Khemist enough at 1K or should I take a second and drop the Endrinriggers down to 6 (no grapnels)? If I can keep him alive, I'd rather have the extra Endrinriggers, and Urbaz gives me 2 buffs anyway, but I worry that some opponents will be able to take him our which pretty dramatically reduces my firepower.

Yeah im with @jake3991. Your Endrinriggers are the fast back field objective grabbers for both your lists it looks like. So keep them at nine. And hide your khemist behind terrain, daisy chain your 30 endrinriggers so that your skyhooks have LOS if you are facing a lot magic/shooting. Just in case. Otherwise hide (bravely) behind your allies. 

[Entombet]

Bases still need some work