AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Boar]

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I actually really like that this is now an option in KO. Reminds me of the souped up Runefathers you can build in the new Fyreslayers book. Could it be that GW is finally figuring out how to stat combat heroes?

To be fair, at least Admiral with Grudgebearer (for double dmg vs. one hero) or say Zon artifact (+2 atk), was pretty good already. And he didn't improve that much in melee, more in shooting as he lost his rerolls in melee, so net gain is not that drastic. Still welcome of course especially with his hammer vs Coalesced. And foot Endrinmaster was also good and say in Zon with artifact was somewhat reliable source of MW.

 

But I like your point on combat heroes, especially not priciest ones (those were often fine before). Let's just look at Savage Big Boss or Sludgeraker (which surprised me with it's dmg/pts efficiency, typical more for units not heroes), Runefathers and Grimwraths which works very nice with their traits/artifacts. Also abilities that started appearing allowing for foot heroes to attack first without gimping yourself as units can follow up on their attacks can mean a lot (aforementioned Savage Big Boss and Runefather, also non-monster Soulblight Heroes). There is definetly something good happening with this.

[Satyrical Sophist]

So what do people arm Thunderers with this days? I've been trying to work out the numbers and there are just so many available buffs these days (+1 to hit, +1 to wound, reroll ones for hit and wound, now rend from the admiral). What are people going for?

[Beliman]

16 hours ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

So what do people arm Thunderers with this days? I've been trying to work out the numbers and there are just so many available buffs these days (+1 to hit, +1 to wound, reroll ones for hit and wound, now rend from the admiral). What are people going for?

I'm in no way a super competitive player, I like to win, but not at all costs. 

• If I want to use them in boats, I usually take the 18" shotguns. My main problem with this guys is that they need saturation or a lot of buffs to do dmg to armored targets (and this days, everyone rocks a 3+ saves or better...). I usually get better results with 20 Arkanauts: they do cheap dmg to heavy armored troops with so many dices and can still delete chaff (damn 9" pistols)
  With the new ammunition, it seems that this units can really shine. Their profile are still meh, but with some random buffs, they can threaten some armored dudes too.

 

• I love Special Weapons, and appart from an Ironclad, I think it's our best unit to Unleash Hell. My main issue with them is their dmg is so conditional and not really good unless the enemy is <9". Another downside is that they are reaaaaallyyyyyyyyyy boring because you need to roll for each weapons. I hope to see some simplification in the future.
  Same as above. That -1 rend ammunition is soooo juicy!! Their main downsides are still their range and profiles.

I still think that Arkanauts are one of the best units, but I just love our " Elite" troops.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Beliman

[Beliman]

New supplement for Soulbound. It is focused on The Grund, an Ironclad that previously appeared in Crash&Burn, Faltering Light and Cities in Flames!!

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/343865/Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Soulbound-The-Grund-Operations-Manual

Can't wait to read it!!!

Edited April 13, 2022 by Beliman

[Evil Bob]

On 4/11/2022 at 4:03 PM, Satyrical Sophist said:

So what do people arm Thunderers with this days?

Normally all rifles.

Yet tonight in a casual game I teamed up with a SoD player against a 2k SCE Dracoth list. He wasn’t pulling any Living Cities shenanigans, it was Hammers of Sigmar all the way. My teammate didn’t need any of the reinforcement points so both of my Barak-Nar Thunderer units had 1x Double-barrelled Aethershot Rifle, 1x Grundstok Mortar, 3x Aethercannon, 3x Decksweeper, 3x Aetheric Fumigator, 4x Aethershot Rifle)

I didn’t bring any ships but wished I brought more dice.

We were playing the first of the main book match play missions so objectives were down the middle of the board. I attempted to plan around 12” ranges. With his high movement rates my forces were deployed three or so inches back from the forward zone-limit line.  It worked out extremely well. Fifteen Thunderers (thirty in total) really maximize the value of Inspired/Unleash-hell and the Aether-Khemist Guild triumph.

It certainly didn’t hurt all the Dracoths were in pairs. Larger units would have weathered Unleash-hell better.

 

[Beliman]

Warhammer Fest is coming to an end, and we have a nice surprise in Drekki Flynt, and he will have a Warscroll too!

He was presented in two Black Library short stories, The Lost Karak and Krenkha Ghorogna and soon it will have a new book as it's main star:

I can't wait to paint mine!

[zilberfrid]

25 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Warhammer Fest is coming to an end, and we have a nice surprise in Drekki Flynt, and he will have a Warscroll too!

He was presented in two Black Library short stories, The Lost Karak and Krenkha Ghorogna and soon it will have a new book as it's main star:

I can't wait to paint mine!

I like the model, but was another male infantry hero really the best choice for the faction?

[cofaxest]

Just some mad ideas to improve KO. Basically it's just my wishlist) 
1) Alligience ability:
Aether gold. 1 to the ship, 1 to the hero, 1 to unit with 10 or more models, 1 for each reinforcment point spended on unit. (only 5 man squad of thunderers and 3 man unit of Skyriggers will not have gold, 15 man squad of thunderers and 9 man squad of Skyriggers will have 2 gold)
Capital Ship - 1 Ship can be choosen as capital Ship. Your general doesn't take space om that ship and can use his abilities even if he is on board. 
Flyhight - once per battle
All other abilities are the same.

2) Units:
Special triumhs - Ignore battleshock or +1 attack to it's weapon for the gold

Arcanauts.
5+ save
Pistols 1 shot 4+/4+/-1/1
Cutters 2 attacks 4+/4+/-/1
Skypike 2 attacks 4+/3+/-1/D3
Leader pistols D3 attacks 4+/4+/-1/1 or 1 attack 4+/4+/-1/D3
Leader melee weapon 1 attack 4+/3+/-1/D3
Can score while on the boat
All other abilities are the same.

Thunderers.
All weapons have 1 attack
Rifles 1 attack 3+/4+/-1/2
Decksweeper 1 attack generates 5 tohit rolls 4+/4+/-1/1
Cannon 1 attack 4+/2+/-2/D3
Mortar 1 attack D3 tohit rolls 4+/3+/-1/1
Fumigator 1 attack D3 tohit rolls 3+/3+/-2/1
Drillbill will let squad leader use command abilities like hero. Can be used to deal D3 MW to enemy within 1".
All other abilities are the same.

Skyriggers.
Warden Pistols have 12" range
Skypike 3+/3+/-1/D3
Skymines. Each time Warden is killed choose unit within 1" and roll 2 dice - for each 5+ deal 1 MW (+1 if targeted unit have fly ability)
Rigger Pistols have 9" range
Chainsaw 2 attacks(3 on leader) 4+/2+/-2/D3
Drillcannons 1 attack 4+/3+/-3/2, each hit generates D3 towound rolls
Skyhooks 1 attack 4+/3+/-2/D3, +1 to chargerolls for each skyhook (with max +2)
Grapnels - max 1 for 1 unit. Increase max number of models for hitched rule by 3 (9 Skyriggers can use hitched with Grapnel)
All other abilities are the same.

3) Ships:
Special triumps - Save rerolls or +1 to rend for main gun

Gunhauler
Heavy Drillcannon 1 attack 3+/3+/-3/2, each hit generates 3 towound rolls
Carbine 2 attacks 3+/3+/-1/2
All other abilities are the same.

Frigate
HeavySkyhook 3+/3+/-2/D6, +1 to charge
All other abilities are the same.

Ironclade 
GreateSkyhook 3+/3+/-2/6, +2 to charge
All other abilities are the same.

Other things
Endrinmaster unlocks Riggers as Battleline
Admiral and Brokk unlocks Wardens as Battleline
Alchemists as battleline option in Barak-Urbaz with better abilities(maybe even remove attack complitly and instead he will apply curtain effect on target(friendly or not) on 3+)
Aethermancy as "magic" school for Navigators
Constracts for Endrinmasters that works like Invocations or more focus on supporting the ships. 
Admiral with ability to modify Unleash Hell command to give also +1 save to a unit and Aether gold ability for like: Order to shoot in command phase or charge at the enemy charge phase.
Flying fortress as faction terrain. 

[Beliman]

@cofaxest

A lot of really interesting points!!

13 hours ago, cofaxest said:

Capital Ship - 1 Ship can be choosen as capital Ship. Your general doesn't take space om that ship and can use his abilities even if he is on board. 

If we lose Fly High (btw, I'm totally fine with that), Frigate and Ironclad already have enough space with 15 models and 25 models. Just don't reduce their movement characteristic and we are fine. If it needs to be reduced for any reason, I hope that the Frigate become 11 models transport and the Ironclad 16 or 21 models transport without losing anything.

13 hours ago, cofaxest said:

Thunderers.
*

I'm not a fan of diferent profiles for more than a 1 or 2 models in a unit. It's teddious and a waste of time. I prefer that all [Special Weapons] would become one profile that it's buffed by how many of them are carried by your unit. I don't know, something like this (ignore the numbers, it's just an example):

Spoiler

 

13 hours ago, cofaxest said:

Skyriggers.
*

I can't talk about numbers. I think that both units need to have diferent roles. Both could have Run&shoot (and FLY) and then, skywardens could have a bonus to charge (-1 rend and +1 hit or something like that). And riggers could ignore any negative stats to their weapon profiles (hit/wound). Weapons could give the last rules to make it more specialized:

• Grapnel: If hit by this weapons, the unit that shoot can still charge even if it run in the same round.
• Drill launcher (high rend!): This weapon has -1 to hit if the unit moved in the same round.

Movility and rend is our strength! 

14 hours ago, cofaxest said:

Other things
*

• Aether-khemist: I still think that should buff rend. It's a burst of Aether-gold directly to our weapons!!
• Navigator: I'm not a fan of casting spells, maybe something to chose at the bengining of each turn that affects the weather for everyone.
• Endrinmasters: Give Monstruous Rampage Aethermatic Ammunition to our Warmachines. At the end of the charge phase, you load a special shell that you will use on the next shooting phase (Admiral Aether-powered munition but exclusive for warmachines).
• Admiral: White Dwarf gave us the most powerful KO character but I think He should give orders instead of ammunition but... whatever.

[cofaxest]

Oh and what about our behemoth ships!
How about this:
3+ save
Each time Behemoth skyvessel loses a wound roll a dice if it landed
if 0-3 wound is on ship it is landed on 7+
if 4-7 wound is on ship it is landed on 6+
if 8-11 wound is on ship it is landed on 5+
if 12 or more wounds is on ship it is landed on 4+
Landed ship can't move
When Behemoth skyvessel loses it's last wound roll a dice. On 6+ it exploded and deal D3 MW to each enemy unit within 3". Remove exploded skyvessel from the table and place all garrisoned model on it's place. If skyvessel doesn't explode then it considered as terrrain feature that can be garrisoned. 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by cofaxest

[cofaxest]

10 hours ago, Beliman said:

I'm not a fan of diferent profiles for more than a 1 or 2 models in a unit. It's teddious and a waste of time. I prefer that all [Special Weapons] would become one profile that it's buffed by how many of them are carried by your unit. I don't know, something like this (ignore the numbers, it's just an example):

As for the Thunderers maybe something like these:
Rifle 18" 1 shot 3+/4+/-1/2
DB Rifle 18" 2 shots 3+/4+/-1/2
Fumigator 9" D3(D6?) shots 3+/3+/-2/1
Special weapon crew (1 mortar, 1 cannon, 1 decksweeper) 
Choose 1 of the profiles for every SWC:
Decksweeper 9" 1 attacks with 5 tohit rolls 4+/3+/-1/1
Cannon 12" 1 attack 3+/2+/-2/3
Mortar 18" 1 attack with 6 towound rolls 4+/3+/-/2 
OR even something more simple
SWC barrage shooting attack
Choose unit within 12" and roll 1 die for each model with special weapon. If unit have less then 10 wounds on 4+ deal D3 MW. If 10-19 wounds on 3+. If more then 20 or more on 2+. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by cofaxest

[Frowny]

On 5/6/2022 at 3:31 PM, zilberfrid said:

I like the model, but was another male infantry hero really the best choice for the faction?

Has that every stopped GW before? Look at poor Fyreslayers. or Nighthiant- they have 2 characters for every actual unit.You can make an entire army out of just specialty released primaris lieutenants.

 I think they do it because of the very favorable cost/profit ratio. Cheap to make, don't take up much factory time, easy to ship, huge markup on those little hero blisters. Obviously that's not a good reason from our perspective but from theirs it seems to.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Frowny

[Frowny]

On 5/11/2022 at 1:35 PM, cofaxest said:

As for the Thunderers maybe something like these:

This is exactly what I don't want. A million tedious individual profiles. I never use them because they are so fiddly to field.

Maybe just group them all together as

'thunderer assault weapons'

2 shots, 9 inch range, 3+/4+/-2/2dmg, can't be used in transports.

Now they are very high power for armored targets and give good rend and benefit from buffs well but double down on short walk ranged so their is a clear difference of role. 

 

 

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Frowny said:

Has that every stopped GW before? Look at poor Fyreslayers. or Nighthiant- they have 2 characters for every actual unit.You can make an entire army out of just specialty released primaris lieutenants.

 I think they do it because of the very favorable cost/profit ratio. Cheap to make, don't take up much factory time, easy to ship, huge markup on those little hero blisters. Obviously that's not a good reason from our perspective but from theirs it seems to.

Yeah, it's probably a model made in the original run and taken from the mothballs.

[The Wah]

Though I’ll probably lose friends I wanted to try using dragons in my Zilfin list. 

Ironclad and Gunhauler, with Khemist and Endrinmaster onboard, as my first threat. Do the Zilfin move, pop the vortex, Profit. A tale is old as time.

Frigate with Thunderers as my second threat. Fly high, of course, but also naturally fast to be able to snag objectives if opponent is unwary. Lots of guns.

Third threat - Stormdrake guard. Hurl them at the opponent and let them deal with angry flying flame lizards which hopefully split focus away from the other two threats.

The two arkanaut teams are there as early screens and objective grabbers. 

Though I like having a fast frigate with thunderers on board as my third threat I’m not sure if the cost of 10 thunderers in a frigate is worth it. At 520 it’s more than an Ironclad!

I’m thinking of dropping it back to 5 thunderers and using the saved 135 points on another hero for the Ironclad - either an Admiral or, more likely, a Navigator. Maybe even Endrinriggers to hitch with the Ironclad and keep it healthy with the Endrinmaster. I think, on average, all up the Ironclad would be repaired 4-5 damage per turn, until the Endrinriggers go down and then it’s 3 damage repaired. 

It seems viable and I’m confident it could go first or second and still achieve its goals.

What say you, brains trust?
 

—-

– Sky Port: Barak Zilfin

– Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders

Aether-Khemist (90)*

– General

– Command Trait: Collector

– Artefact: Spell in a Bottle

 

Endrinmaster with endrinharness(95)*

– Artefact: Staff of Occular Optimisation

 

Battleline

10 x Arkanaut Company (100)*

– 1x Skypikes

– 1x Light Skyhooks

– 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns

 

10 x Arkanaut Company (100)*

– 1x Skypikes

– 1x Light Skyhooks

– 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns

 

Arkanaut Frigate (250)*

– Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon

Great Endrinworks: Magnificent Omniscope

 

Units

10 x Grundstok Thunderers (270)*

- aethershot rifles

 

1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (155)*

– Main Gun: Drill Cannon

 

2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)

– Drakerider’s Warblade

 

Behemoths

Arkanaut Ironclad (490)*

– Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon

– Great Endrinworks: Last Word

 

Warp Lightning Vortex (90)

 

Core Battalions

*Battle Regiment

Total: 1980 / 2000

Reinforced Units:  1 / 4

Allies: 340 / 400

Drops: 2

Edited May 29, 2022 by The Wah

[Beliman]

So, new GHB, new rules!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/15/veteran-infantry-take-centre-stage-in-the-next-generals-handbook/

New Galletian Veterans Keyword!! What do you think? How this changes are going to impact our gameplay? Do you like them?

[readercolin]

So the question is when does the Galletian Veterans keyword apply.

The answer is that it always applies to Arkanaughts, and can sometimes apply to thunderers, and can sometimes apply to endrinriggers and skywardens.  However, all 4 of those do count as troops, but the bounty hunters battalion only affects melee in a mostly shooting based army.

Overall, I see this as making arkanaughts weaker, as they are now always going to be at risk to the +damage battalion. The bounty hunter battalion isn't particularly useful either as the only things that are going to be effective with that would be skywardens/endrinriggers, but even then endrinriggers have a single attack and skywardens only 2.  And using that battalion would also mean giving up the one drop battalion, which is generally fairly important to competitive KO lists.

I think in the end that the competitive KO lists are still going to need the 1 drop battalion to be able to dictate turn order.  Otherwise I don't see any other positive changes for KO from this update.

[cofaxest]

1 hour ago, readercolin said:

So the question is when does the Galletian Veterans keyword apply.

The answer is that it always applies to Arkanaughts, and can sometimes apply to thunderers, and can sometimes apply to endrinriggers and skywardens.  However, all 4 of those do count as troops, but the bounty hunters battalion only affects melee in a mostly shooting based army.

Overall, I see this as making arkanaughts weaker, as they are now always going to be at risk to the +damage battalion. The bounty hunter battalion isn't particularly useful either as the only things that are going to be effective with that would be skywardens/endrinriggers, but even then endrinriggers have a single attack and skywardens only 2.  And using that battalion would also mean giving up the one drop battalion, which is generally fairly important to competitive KO lists.

I think in the end that the competitive KO lists are still going to need the 1 drop battalion to be able to dictate turn order.  Otherwise I don't see any other positive changes for KO from this update.

Totally agree. KO will get even less scoring this season so I can't see our faction as tournament faction at all. 

[Beliman]

2 hours ago, readercolin said:

So the question is when does the Galletian Veterans keyword apply.

The answer is that it always applies to Arkanaughts, and can sometimes apply to thunderers, and can sometimes apply to endrinriggers and skywardens.  However, all 4 of those do count as troops, but the bounty hunters battalion only affects melee in a mostly shooting based army.

Overall, I see this as making arkanaughts weaker, as they are now always going to be at risk to the +damage battalion. The bounty hunter battalion isn't particularly useful either as the only things that are going to be effective with that would be skywardens/endrinriggers, but even then endrinriggers have a single attack and skywardens only 2.  And using that battalion would also mean giving up the one drop battalion, which is generally fairly important to competitive KO lists.

I think in the end that the competitive KO lists are still going to need the 1 drop battalion to be able to dictate turn order.  Otherwise I don't see any other positive changes for KO from this update.

That's exactly what I think too. Our melee dealers are in units of 3 models (9max), making them a perfect target for Overwhelming assault after previous cheap dmg.

Overall, I think that this GHB is not for us (like anything about 3.0). That doesn't mean that we can still play and have fun, but I expect that we don't change ur gameplay after all this new rules.

[Fert]

On 6/16/2022 at 11:40 AM, Beliman said:

 

 

Overall, I think that this GHB is not for us (like anything about 3.0). That doesn't mean that we can still play and have fun, but I expect that we don't change ur gameplay after all this new rules.

I feel like we can shine in this GHB.  If people buy into infantry/body count I'm game as that usually accompanies low armor values.  I love shooting squishy.  I love seeing our damage come through.  And, if people are still into high armor values/save stacks, we have the admirals ammunition and the new purple sun (an absolute gift).  Rend 3 Thunderer rifles... backed up by rend 2 Aether carbines on Ironclad and frigates... LETS GO!!!!  Really curious to see what comes of the FAQ and our transports. 

[Beliman]

yes! FAQs already here: 

We can move after disembarking! I really likei t.
Our master-assassins (aka, BigHammer-Admirals) can threat anyone that is not well aware of our flying mechanics!

[Flippy]

More than I expected. Will not break the game in any way - but it is a welcome addition.

[Dogmantra]

Had my eye on KO for a bit, and I've read through the tome but I feel like I don't quite get aether-gold.

When you use it, you "pick a triumph the unit is eligible to use". So I'm reading that as you can only pick a triumph on your army list, and then only if you come to fewer points than your opponent. But that seems incredibly niche, and weird to have a faction ability that straight up does nothing if you spend all 2000 points. On the other hand, I keep reading the ability and I can't see another interpretation that doesn't leave me with more qurstions.

I checked the FAQ and there's nothing there. Is there a consensus on how this is played?

[Beliman]

@Dogmantra

Take in mind that in 2.0, triumphs could be used by anyone, but to take them, you needed to had less points than your oponent.

Your are probably right. But let's pretend that our battletrait works as 2.0 because it will suck otherwise 🤣

 

[Boar]

3 hours ago, Beliman said:

Take in mind that in 2.0, triumphs could be used by anyone, but to take them, you needed to had less points than your oponent.

There was nothing about using it per se. It was de facto rolled into picking triumph, but there were no universal rules that would block using and now there are. Restrictions in 2.0 came from what triggers were written in triumph texts.

Right now everyone plays it by arguably RAI, ie. eligible use only pertaining to those triggers on triumph. But RAW well it gets interesting