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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

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Hey all! Budding (see what I did there) Sylvaneth general here. I recently picked up 2 loon curse Sylvaneth halves from a buddy of mine and am looking to build a 1000 point starting list. 

I was considering something like this...

ancient 

arch revenant

5 tree revenants 

10 spite revenants 

6 Kurnoth hunters (scythes)

not sure what glade to go with. I was think gnarlroot or winter leaf. I can see merits for both. Also, not sure about Kurnoth loadout. I know 6 scythes are brutal but am wondering if I’d be better served by 2 units of 3 swords. At 1000 f definitely more units would be better, but considering I’ve seen most 2k lists running 6 scythes 3 swords I don’t want to shelf 3 swords. What do you all think? In the future my plans were 20 block of spites and 2 min revs for battle line tax. Is that viable?

thanks! 

 

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On 7/21/2019 at 11:06 AM, Drillz said:

For those that travel and Fly with their army i have a question. How do you plan to transport your trees on a plane? I have a pack GO and can get the army to fit in it but i cant figure out how to transport the new tree on a plane. Anyone have any suggestions or tips. If not i dont think ill beable to fly with them and will have to pick up an easier to transport army

I have a large hardcase from battlefoam that I check. I don't like trying to bring tons of stuff into the cabin with me. It gets tossed around, but if packed correctly, no more breaks than when I go to my normal flgs games by car. If trying to avoid checked bags, no idea as those things are pretty big.

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2 hours ago, SkyGuy said:

Hey all! Budding (see what I did there) Sylvaneth general here. I recently picked up 2 loon curse Sylvaneth halves from a buddy of mine and am looking to build a 1000 point starting list. 

I was considering something like this...

ancient 

arch revenant

5 tree revenants 

10 spite revenants 

6 Kurnoth hunters (scythes)

not sure what glade to go with. I was think gnarlroot or winter leaf. I can see merits for both. Also, not sure about Kurnoth loadout. I know 6 scythes are brutal but am wondering if I’d be better served by 2 units of 3 swords. At 1000 f definitely more units would be better, but considering I’ve seen most 2k lists running 6 scythes 3 swords I don’t want to shelf 3 swords. What do you all think? In the future my plans were 20 block of spites and 2 min revs for battle line tax. Is that viable?

thanks! 

 

Two looncurse boxes? Wow you are fortunate!!

20 block of spites and 2 tree revs is a great battleline. But to be honest you can't really go wrong with any of our battleline units nowadays.  Twenty seems to be the magic number for Spites and Dryads. 

I actually prefer units of 3 greatswords, since only greatswords generate mortal wounds on 6's. However a unit of 6 scythes is also very strong and will benefit more from your Arch Revenant buffs. 

 

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2 hours ago, Landohammer said:

I actually prefer units of 3 greatswords, since only greatswords generate mortal wounds on 6's. However a unit of 6 scythes is also very strong and will benefit more from your Arch Revenant buffs. 

 

Do you feel it’s worth banking on rolling 6s? Over say, a unit of scythes that gets more attacks in due to 2” range?

i think I may end up going with 2x units of 3 swords but the idea of a buffed 6 strong scythe unit with regrowth from ancient seems hard to shift in a small points game 

 

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Units of 3 hunters can die to serious threats before you get a chance to use them. It won’t always happen, and you can screen them in some cases, but I find that they are in the awkward position of being a big enough threat if left alone, yet a small enough unit that it is worth the effort of your opponent removing them if they have half a chance. Even if they only remove two hunters, the remaining solo Hunter is a sad puppy.

In contrast, it takes an awful lot to remove a whole unit of 6 hunters and very few of the things that can remove 3 will want to take out half the unit and find themselves on the receiving end of the rest (plus any you’ve restored in the interim). I’ve never taken a unit of 6 and wished I’d split them into two 3s, but I’ve taken two units of 3 and regretted it. Not always, but enough not to treat it as a preferred option. 

Edited by Trevelyan
Sad puppy

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Hi all! Looking for some list feedback. I've got a doubles tournament coming up so need you to tell me if I'm mad for considering this as my 1000 point list or if it might just be crazy enough to work. 

Sylvaneth 1000 points-Gnarlroot Glade

Alarielle - Throne of Vines

Branchwraith - General. Nurtured by magic and Chalice of Nectar. Regrowth. 

 

Tree Revenants x5 

Tree Revenants x5

 

Glade Wyrm

Quicksilver Swords

Vengeful Skullroot. 

 

My friend is taking flesh eater courts so the plan is for him to be the hammer that uses his summons and harder hitting units to strike. I play conservatively using the revenants mobility to control the board, endless spells to zone the enemies and then summons to support the flesh eater courts (alarielle summoning either kurnoth hunters or a tree lord depending on the need, and a bank of 30 dryads for the Branchwraith to sit and spaff out) 

Let me know what you think! 

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2 casters and 3 endless spells is definitely overkill. You can only ever cast 2 per turn anyway. I would drop both 2 of the 3, which should give you enough to buy 5x spite revenants or upgrade one of the tree revenants into dryads. Gives you a few more wounds. Alarielle will be devastating at such low points, but still doesn't give you many bodies for holding stuff. Not sure what your ally is bringing though

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Can each caster only cast one endless spell a turn? My impression was that alarielle has three casts so could cast throne of vines and then two of the endless spells with the buff? 

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16 hours ago, TreetopPaints said:

Let me know what you think! 

Im not convinced by the spell selection across Alarielle and the wraith. Although Throne of Vines is generally useful on Alarielle, that tends to be in situations where you’ve got the basic spells covered elsewhere.

The wraith is only casting a single spell, so will ideally be summoning more Dryads for much of the game. When you need Regrowth, you’ll face a dilemma between casting that and summoning more Dryads. That’s even assuming the wraith is in range to heal anything - typically you’ll want to keep her away from the action. 

I would be tempted to give Regrowth to Alarielle in this list. You’ll need her to get stuck in to combat, so the extra d6 healing will be useful to top up her inherent d3 healing. She’ll then be healing, casting her own spell and still have a third cast for an endless spell. The alternative would be to go with Verdurous Harmony on Alarielle to help any Kurnoths, or even Dryads, that she summons (if she summons a treelord then Regrowth is a stronger pick).

Either way, having both Regrowth and Verdurous Harmony across both casters is probably better than dropping either for a Throne of Vines.

 

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18 hours ago, SkyGuy said:

Do you feel it’s worth banking on rolling 6s? Over say, a unit of scythes that gets more attacks in due to 2” range?

i think I may end up going with 2x units of 3 swords but the idea of a buffed 6 strong scythe unit with regrowth from ancient seems hard to shift in a small points game 

 

Yes, mainly because of the greatswords getting 4 attacks instead of 3. So you end up rolling 12 dice instead of 9. 

This really becomes apparent with  Winterleaf since each 6 has the potential for FIVE wounds.  (1 mortal + 2 hits * 2 damage). 

Again, I think Scythes are still VERY strong (even in units of 3!) but greatswords are just more reliable at their job.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Yes, mainly because of the greatswords getting 4 attacks instead of 3. So you end up rolling 12 dice instead of 9. 

This really becomes apparent with  Winterleaf since each 6 has the potential for FIVE wounds.  (1 mortal + 2 hits * 2 damage). 

Again, I think Scythes are still VERY strong (even in units of 3!) but greatswords are just more reliable at their job.

Of course, getting 6 scythes into range is vastly easier than getting  two units each of 3 swords into range of the same target. Not least because you can only teleport one unit through the Wyldwoods now. You will need more than 3 of either type to reliably deal with the bigger targets that should be the primary prey of the hunters, be they behemoths or larger units of infantry. 

Plus even a unit of 3 scythes benefits proportionally more from the arch revenant than a unit of 3 swords (+33% attacks vs +25% attacks). A unit of 6 scythes not only benefits even more, but costs half the command points to buff than two units of swords.  

Don’t overlook the advantage of 2” reach for running your hunters behind a screen of chaff infantry, or simply getting more of the unit into range when their tanglethorn thickets limit them to a 1” pile in.

3 “naked” swords will outperform 3 “naked” scythes when you just compare the numbers, but there’s a difference between warhammer and mathhammer. Or to look at it another way, sword hunters have always been statistically stronger than scythe Hunters, but there is a reason only the swords got the mortal wound ability and still cost the same. 

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1 minute ago, Trevelyan said:

Of course, getting 6 scythes into range is vastly easier than getting  two units each of 3 swords into range of the same target. Not least because you can only teleport one unit through the Wyldwoods now. You will need more than 3 of either type to reliably deal with the bigger targets that should be the primary prey of the hunters, be they behemoths or larger units of infantry. 

Plus even a unit of 3 scythes benefits proportionally more from the arch revenant than a unit of 3 swords (+33% attacks vs +25% attacks). A unit of 6 scythes not only benefits even more, but costs half the command points to buff than two units of swords.  

Don’t overlook the advantage of 2” reach for running your hunters behind a screen of chaff infantry, or simply getting more of the unit into range when their tanglethorn thickets limit them to a 1” pile in.

3 “naked” swords will outperform 3 “naked” scythes when you just compare the numbers, but there’s a difference between warhammer and mathhammer. Or to look at it another way, sword hunters have always been statistically stronger than scythe Hunters, but there is a reason only the swords got the mortal wound ability and still cost the same. 

I absolutely agree with all of those points. And 6 Scythes may be the most terrifying unit in our book to use the Frozen Kernel on. However I personally don't like having all of my eggs in one basket. 6 Scythes plus a Arch is 25% of your list and a lot of the time you just aren't going to get to attack first, especially if you fail the 9 inch charge after a teleport.

Additionally, I actually prefer to use Alarielle's command ability on Hunters, since its actually an Aura affect (rather and a single target like the Arch). This allows both greatsword units to reroll 1's to wound along with any units nearby including Alarielle herself. 

Also, 3 greatswords are the perfect unit for Alarielle to summon after she has moved. :D

 

 

 

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Simple question regarding the sylvaneth wood models: do you really need to buy these plastic models from gw or is it sufficient to make a wood with general trees from normal tabletop terrain stuff in the same size which in the end will look more realistic  and fit besser to other terrain?

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1 hour ago, Banshee1978 said:

Simple question regarding the sylvaneth wood models: do you really need to buy these plastic models from gw or is it sufficient to make a wood with general trees from normal tabletop terrain stuff in the same size which in the end will look more realistic  and fit besser to other terrain?

Depends on where you play and who you play with. At pretty much any event, you'll be expected to have the correct minis, in friendly games you can use whatever you want, in a pick up game at a FLGS it's a toss up, some people wont care, and some people will be annoyed. The thing is that the trees occupy space where a model cannot fit, so there is reason to have the actual models.

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5 hours ago, TreetopPaints said:

That's a really valid suggestion, makes a lot of sense! Thank you

I’m fond of the Stave on a Branchwraith with Throne of vines to get +2 to summoning dryads first turn

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1 hour ago, Banshee1978 said:

Simple question regarding the sylvaneth wood models: do you really need to buy these plastic models from gw or is it sufficient to make a wood with general trees from normal tabletop terrain stuff in the same size which in the end will look more realistic  and fit besser to other terrain?

I think in a GW store/tournament its a no go but places with more lax use of non-gw models I'd say is a yes.

(or you could go full Smarmy mode and make trees out of spare plastic frames/sprues/runners and claim "it's still 100% GW" 😈)

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4 hours ago, Landohammer said:

However I personally don't like having all of my eggs in one basket. 6 Scythes plus a Arch is 25% of your list and a lot of the time you just aren't going to get to attack first, especially if you fail the 9 inch charge after a teleport.

. . .

Also, 3 greatswords are the perfect unit for Alarielle to summon after she has moved. :D

Not getting to attack first is a reason to take the 6 scythes, over the swords. If your unit is going to get charged then you naught as well have enough bodies to hit back with. You could easily lose 2 or 3 hunters to a credible threat. That’ll either remove or effectively neuter your 3 sword unit but having 3 or 4 scythes lets you fight back and the threat may deter weaker units from challenging the hunters. 

Taking 3 swords with Alarielle is definitely worthwhile, as is taking 3 swords generally when you’ve already got a bigger unit of scythes as your primary hitters. Swords are still good, and they are the best option whenever you take a smaller unit.

I’m just saying that the real value of the scythes isn’t apparent from just the numbers, where swords always win, but from actual play where the less tangible advantages of the scythe really make a difference. 

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12 hours ago, Banshee1978 said:

Simple question regarding the sylvaneth wood models: do you really need to buy these plastic models from gw or is it sufficient to make a wood with general trees from normal tabletop terrain stuff in the same size which in the end will look more realistic  and fit besser to other terrain?

If you are playing tournament games then you'll need the real deal. FLGS might be a little more relaxed about it but best to check beforehand. I can't really afford the new trees at the moment so I found somewhere that sells the bases cut in MDF for £3 per wood (1 wood = x3 tree bases). They don't look fantastic but you can do them up and I'm sure they'd be fine for friendly games.

https://counterattackbases.co.uk/item/wild-wood-base-set

Edit: I've not bought any of these yet, but it's possible they might only be an approximation in terms of the actual base size, so if you're going to buy from them just be aware of that.

Edited by Dammitt_Jim
Cautionary note

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Are the Counter Attack templates for the new woods accurate? Most of their stuff is pretty good, but their template for the original citadel wood was only very approximate. 

EDIT: I’ve now got a set of the new templates. They are much better than the old version (which had the trees in the wrong places). Confirm an exact match. 

Edited by Trevelyan
Update on the new templates

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@Trevelyan I'm afraid I don't know. I've not bought any yet but assumed they were accurate. I'm not planning on playing in any tournaments or anything though so they'll be fine for what I need but if you've had a different experience with their older bases then i'll update my post with a caution.

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I’ve ordered a set to see for myself. If they are a good fit then I’ll use them to cut my new set of Deepcut mat trees. Either way I can report back in a few days. 

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Sorry for my question, I built an arch revenant but i dont know the official base size.  Anybody can help me?

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2 hours ago, Steita said:

Sorry for my question, I built an arch revenant but i dont know the official base size.  Anybody can help me?

It's a 40mm base

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