AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[KarrWolves]

5 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

That is a pretty good tournament results! What list have you been using?

List 1: Nova Open AoS GT (3/1/1) and Mighty Meeple AoS GT (4/0/1)

Spoiler

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Gnarlroot
- Season of War: The Dwindling
- Grand Strategy: Take What's Theirs
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Warsong Revenant (305)*
- General
- Command Trait: Spellsinger
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deepwood: Verdurous Harmony
Spirit of Durthu (370)*
- Artefact: Greenwood Gladius
Battlemage (100)*
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Dryads (100)**
5 x Tree-Revenants (110)**
5 x Tree-Revenants (110)**

Units
6 x Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Scythes (500)***
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Revenant Seekers (235)***
5 x Skaeth's Wild Hunt (110)*
- Spell1: Lore of the Deepwood: Regrowth

Endless Spells & Invocations
Spiteswarm Hive (40)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Expert Conquerors
***Bounty Hunters

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 100 / 400
Wounds: 106
Drops: 9

The list was very fun to play with a lot of tricks, but suffered from being high drop and very dependent on magic: would be perfect for teams tournament but not reliable enough to 5/0 in solo tournament.

 

List 2: Bazooka Monthly RTT (3/0/0)

Spoiler

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Heartwood
- Season of War: The Dwindling
- Grand Strategy: Take What's Theirs
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Warsong Revenant (305)*
- General
- Command Trait: Spellsinger
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deepwood: Treesong
Treelord Ancient (360)*
- Lore of the Deepwood: Verdurous Harmony
Battlemage (100)*
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Tree-Revenants (110)*
5 x Tree-Revenants (110)*
6 x Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Scythes (500)*
- Reinforced x 1

Units
6 x Revenant Seekers (470)*
- Reinforced x 1

Endless Spells & Invocations
Spiteswarm Hive (40)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 100 / 400
Wounds: 106
Drops: 1

Worked pretty well but the TLA seemed maybe overkill, so next month I'll try Arch-Revenant and 20 Dryads instead of TLA at another RTT and I'll probably bring one of the two to LVO next year.

[GunslingerOy]

Looking to do an entmoot style list. Haven't played in the new book alot, was very familiar with the old book, but didn't lean into big trees. Looking to take one of the below to a single day tournament but I won't have the opportunity to playtest both lists. Idea behind the first is Durthu as my strike and fade while the Ancient who has gnarlwarrior which isn't showing tags some units and tries to pin them. Second list would be Everqueen smashing in and the same gimmick with the Ancient. Thinking about dropping the warsong in the first for Drycha possible or the newer named hero branchwych.

(Also how do you hide text for ease of display)

 - Army Faction: Sylvaneth
     - Subfaction: Oakenbrow
     - Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
     - Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Spirit of Durthu (370)
     - Artefacts of Power: Greenwood Gladius
Treelord Ancient (360)**
     - Artefacts of Power: The Vesperal Gem
     - Spells: Throne of Vines, Verdant Blessing
Warsong Revenant (305)**
     - Spells: Treesong, Verdant Blessing
Battlemage (100)**
BATTLELINE
Treelord (260)*
Treelord (260)*
Tree-Revenants (110)***
Tree-Revenants (110)***
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Spiteswarm Hive (40)
1 x Umbral Spellportal (80)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Bounty Hunters
**Command Entourage
     - Magnificent

***Expert Conquerors
TOTAL POINTS: 1995/2000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

 

 - Army Faction: Sylvaneth

  - Subfaction: Heartwood

  - Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs

  - Triumph: Bloodthirsty

LEADERS

Alarielle the Everqueen (840)

  - Spells: Verdant Blessing

Treelord Ancient (360)

  - General

  - Command Traits: Gnarled Warrior

  - Artefacts of Power: The Vesperal Gem

  - Spells: Throne of Vines, Verdant Blessing

BATTLELINE

Tree-Revenants (110)

Tree-Revenants (110)

BEHEMOTH

Treelord (260)

Treelord (260)

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS

1 x Spiteswarm Hive (40)

TOTAL POINTS: 1980/2000

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by GunslingerOy

[KarrWolves]

Hiding text is an option only on the computer version of the website, you just select the text and click on the spoiler option.

As for the lists, I prefer the 1st one: 2nd one doesn't have 1 big hammer (Alarielle doesn't hit that hard) and has less delivery options for your slow units.

First one is very balanced and seem really good actually. I might steal it and test it at some point.

[chosen_of_khaine]

Hi folks, like many I'm branching out into Sylvaneth with the battleforce (pun intended) and in thinking about how to expand from there I've looked at many lists, including in this thread.

I see many folks running reinforced units of Spiterider Lancers and/or Revenant Seekers, and I'm wondering - how many models do you realistically get into combat when they charge? 4? Or is it relatively easy to position them so you get 2 ranks, even with their 60mm bases?

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, chosen_of_khaine said:

Hi folks, like many I'm branching out into Sylvaneth with the battleforce (pun intended) and in thinking about how to expand from there I've looked at many lists, including in this thread.

I see many folks running reinforced units of Spiterider Lancers and/or Revenant Seekers, and I'm wondering - how many models do you realistically get into combat when they charge? 4? Or is it relatively easy to position them so you get 2 ranks, even with their 60mm bases?

It's depends a little against what are you fighting. A single 32mm foot hero is hard to get all in combat, but against normal units of 5~10 models I usually don't have problems getting all of them in combat (or 5 at least). The 6" pile in really helps positioning.

[a74xhx]

It's been quite a while since I played AOS (my armies are Sylvaneth and Gitz, so lost interest for a while). But, really keen on playing the new book now.

To get a flavour of the new book, I want a list that's pure bread and butter. Completely unoriginal, but plays all the obvious tricks. I know Sylvaneth aren't a beginner army, but I'd like it to be as robust and solid as possible, without any difficult to pull off moves that I'll instantly get wrong on the day - ie I want an Ancient instead the 12" acorn. This is for training myself on the book.

List 1: Starting with a Durthu and Bows list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Heartwood, - Season Of War: The Reaping

Leaders
Warsong Revenant (305)
- General
- Command Trait: Spellsinger
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deepwood: Treesong
Treelord Ancient (360)*
- Lore of the Deepwood: Regrowth
Spirit of Durthu (370)*
- Artefact: Greenwood Gladius
Arch-Revenant (120)*
Battlemage (100)*
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Tree-Revenants (110)**
5 x Tree-Revenants (110)**
6 x Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Greatbows (460)*
- Reinforced x 1

Endless Spells & Invocations
Spiteswarm Hive (40)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Expert Conquerors

Total: 1975 / 2000

Double buff Durthu's charge with Battlemage and Hive. Teleport strike and fade.

Bows sit in backline wood(?) or on backline objective(?), shooting with buffs from Arch Rev.

Warsong sends bombs through the woods, and Treesong's Durthu or Bows.

Ancient purely so I can get two woods out on turn 1. Rest of the game he jumps around causing a distraction.

Tree Revs are charge shields. Try to keep them alive for objective grabbing later.

Heartwood needed for the battleline.

Big worries here are:

1) Lack of bodies. 21 models, 96 wounds. That feels really small.

2) 8 Drops. Will have to turtle if going second. Could swap out tome for a Unified battlion, giving 3 drops (or 1 if drop conquerors too)

3) Durthu is swingy.

 

List 2: Switching Durthu for some Scythes:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Heartwood, - Season Of War: The Reaping

Leaders
Warsong Revenant (305)
- General
- Command Trait: Spellsinger
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Deepwood: Treesong
Treelord Ancient (360)*
- Lore of the Deepwood: Verdurous Harmony
Battlemage (100)
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Tree-Revenants (110)**
5 x Tree-Revenants (110)**
6 x Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Greatbows (460)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Scythes (500)
- Reinforced x 1

Endless Spells & Invocations
Spiteswarm Hive (40)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Expert Conquerors

Total: 1985 / 2000

Swapped Durthu for 6 Scythes. 

Switched Warlord for Battle Regiment because I don't need the additional artefacts.

Something else had to go. I wanted to drop Battlemage but that left me at 2005. Had to drop Arch Rev. I could have dropped some Tree Revs instead, but didn't want to lose the bodies.

25 bodies, 106 wounds, 3 drops. More bodies, More wounds, better drop, Less swing.

Sadly I've lost that Arch Rev. That's going to nerf the bows.

 

At this point I could drop the bows and replace with:

*List 3: 6 (or 2x3) Revenant Seekers. Healing for the Scythes plus mobile enough to do their own thing. Is 6 a little overkill though? Sadly I don't have enough models for this yet.

*List 4:  3 Revenant Seekers, 5 Tree Revs, Arch Rev. I guess Archie will be buffing the Scythes now. Some extra chaff in the Tree Revs (my Spites will have to play dress up). 107 wounds and 28 bodies now!

But, the Ancient has got Verdurous Harmony, so do I even need any Seekers?

 

At this point I wonder if I'm overthinking and should just stick with list 1.

 

Thoughts?

Edited December 12, 2022 by a74xhx
minor list error

[readercolin]

So I have played something very similar to your first list (and if you look back a page you will see exactly what I played and what my conclusions are).

Overall, even if you get off the +5 to charge with durthu, he is still a whiff monster.  Yes, there were certainly times that I smacked and he did ~30 damage after saves and just cleared whatever it was that he hit.  At the same time, I have also successfully swung at something and did exactly 0 damage because my dice hated me, and the few attacks that got through my opponent saved.  Once per game you can buff him up with finest hour to make him more consistent, but that really isn't enough to want to rely on him.

If you look at what I'm considering for my next list, it looks very similar to your 2nd list, with 6 bows, 6 scythes, ancient, revenant, and spiteswarm hive.  However, I decided to take the hit and drop to dryads instead of tree revenants so I could bring the arch-revenant.  Basically, I found the Kurnoth Bows to be fairly unreliable, even with all out attack (or the +1 to hit your hunted targets), with my list consistently hitting and wounding only like 4-5 times out of its 13 attacks, and I'm not sure that they can really carry their weight without the arch-revenant.  At the same time, having them there to finish off the last few wounds of a unit after the warsong hits them is quite nice.  Additionally, dryads with their -1/-1 effect means that your opponent has to actually commit something to remove your screen, which is more than I can say happens for tree-revenants, so I find myself fine running dryads instead to force my opponent to overextend just to clear them.

The most important thing though is battle regiment.  Sylvaneth really, really don't want to get double-turned.  The only way to "guarantee" that is to get a battle regiment and go second, and that second list fits into a battle regiment while the first will not.  Then, even if you win priority, unless you can guarantee absolutely devastating your opponent, give away the turn so that you don't get doubled.

By all means, experiment with your lists and find what works for you.  But my personal recommendation is to do something that looks more like the second list you posted.

[a74xhx]

2 hours ago, readercolin said:

However, I decided to take the hit and drop to dryads instead of tree revenants so I could bring the arch-revenant. 

Interesting, hadn't considered Dryads really. Alternatively, the Spites could fit in. But I don't see any reason for taking them over Dryads (well, Verdurous Harmony is going to give you twice the number of wounds back). Dryads do feel like they might be the worthwhile compromise in the list.

You do lose the Battlemage, but that +2 charge loss doesn't feel like a dealbreaker.

2 hours ago, readercolin said:

However, I decided to take the hit and drop to dryads instead of tree revenants so I could bring the arch-revenant.  Basically, I found the Kurnoth Bows to be fairly unreliable, even with all out attack (or the +1 to hit your hunted targets), with my list consistently hitting and wounding only like 4-5 times out of its 13 attacks, and I'm not sure that they can really carry their weight without the arch-revenant.  At the same time, having them there to finish off the last few wounds of a unit after the warsong hits them is quite nice.

This is why I started considering the Seekers instead. 25% of the list is a lot to pay for them with the Arch Rev.

Are you moving the Bows around the board much at all?

 

2 hours ago, readercolin said:

The most important thing though is battle regiment.  Sylvaneth really, really don't want to get double-turned.  The only way to "guarantee" that is to get a battle regiment and go second, and that second list fits into a battle regiment while the first will not.  Then, even if you win priority, unless you can guarantee absolutely devastating your opponent, give away the turn so that you don't get doubled.

It seems so counter intuitive to get something in order to go second. But, totally understand the reasoning.

[readercolin]

In general, I tend to be fairly active with my bows.  Sylvaneth don't exactly have a ton to work with in the way of screens, so against anyone with the mobility to threaten my warsong (ex. deepstrike, teleports, fast movement, etc) I will use them as a "second layer" of screening - after all, it is 30 wounds on a 3+ save... and it is pretty easy to stick them into cover too, though that does require buying/bringing more woods with your army.  Then, once my opponent commits, or I clear out threats to my warsong, I'll start hopping them through woods to sit on objectives, or take objectives, or to threaten things that my opponent was trying to keep out of the way.

Usually this ends up being turns 1 and 2, they plink away while screening, while turns 3+ they move, and sometimes I even charge them in to hit stuff in melee... which is a lot more effective than you might think, because a squad of 6 can still get in for 12-18 attacks at 3+/3+/-/1, PLUS an average of 3 mortal wounds on top of that if I'm willing to stay in melee and not fade away.  At this point, I'm usually doing this on weakened units, or because I have run out of other threats, but on the other hand, they tend to still be a full unit or only slightly injured which is more than you can say for most other things on the board by that point in time.

Finally, remember that spites are not battleline by default - only in a dreadwood army.  You can certainly run a squad, but you need to make sure you hit your battleline requirements somehow else.

Now, I have seen some people running 12 kurnoths run 6 scythes and 2 squads of 3 bows, and I do intend to test that out at some point as it gives you 1 more shot, fills your battleline requirements, and better lets you choose your targets and split your attacks because you can hit with 1 squad, wait for the results, and then decide where to throw the rest of your shots at.  On the other hand, doing this means giving up on all out attacking a single unit, which means if you are shooting at a non-hunt marked target you will be hitting on 4's with half a unit, you have less models to try to rally back, you can only mystic shield 1 squad (though, this only really becomes relevant if the scythes are dead, cause 9/10 I'll be mystic shielding my scythe hunters), and if you walk the spirit paths, you can only walk it with 3 guys at once rather than 6, which can be a bit of an inconvenience.

[Arzalyn]

Some rumors floating around about our points change in the next GHB. Looks pretty good if they are true! Most of the heroes get reduction, which mostly compensate for the increase in scythes and seekers. In parentheses is the rumored new points value.

Drycha -15 (320)

Lady of vines - 35 (290)

Warsong -5 (300)

Alarielle -20 (820)

Durthu -20 (350)

TLA -30 (330)

Spite revs -15 (90)

Treelord -30 (230)

Gossamids -10 (210)

Rev seekers +5 (240)

Scythe Kurnoths +10 (260)

Gladewyrm -10 (40)

Ylthari guardians -20 (160)

[KarrWolves]

My lists are going up 25pts if these rumors are true 😔

[Domize]

What does everyone think about the new GHB rules? Will admit, the Warsong and Arch Revs are pretty great choices for being Galletian Champions, but not sure about the Branchwych - she is extremely fragile, and I don't really want to run her onto objectives/combat like a lot of the battle tactics require.

The point drops are welcome, but now that I feel forced to run an Arch-Rev, Branchwych and a Warsong Rev in nearly every list just to complete battle tactics, I wonder how much impact they will have (especially since they mostly affect heroes that can't be GCs). It also makes it even harder to justify running Alarielle...

 

[KarrWolves]

26 minutes ago, Domize said:

What does everyone think about the new GHB rules? Will admit, the Warsong and Arch Revs are pretty great choices for being Galletian Champions, but not sure about the Branchwych - she is extremely fragile, and I don't really want to run her onto objectives/combat like a lot of the battle tactics require.

The point drops are welcome, but now that I feel forced to run an Arch-Rev, Branchwych and a Warsong Rev in nearly every list just to complete battle tactics, I wonder how much impact they will have (especially since they mostly affect heroes that can't be GCs). It also makes it even harder to justify running Alarielle...

 

You don't need that many GCs in your list: with only 1 GC you could complete easily:

• Gaining Momentum
• An Eye for an Eye
• Desecrate their Lands
• Cunning Manoeuvre
• Eradicate Trespassers
• Harness the Spirit Paths

That's plenty enough as long as you manage them correctly.

Otherwise new GHB is nice, the new battleplans are great for us and Battleline Drawn is now really good for Sylvaneth. 

Point drops are nice but the point increase on the Scythes hurts a bit (they are out of my list now). That's probably better for the internal balance of the book though. 

 

[Domize]

13 minutes ago, KarrWolves said:

You don't need that many GCs in your list: with only 1 GC you could complete easily:

• Gaining Momentum
• An Eye for an Eye
• Desecrate their Lands
• Cunning Manoeuvre
• Eradicate Trespassers
• Harness the Spirit Paths

That's plenty enough as long as you manage them correctly.

Otherwise new GHB is nice, the new battleplans are great for us and Battleline Drawn is now really good for Sylvaneth. 

Point drops are nice but the point increase on the Scythes hurts a bit (they are out of my list now). That's probably better for the internal balance of the book though. 

 

I agree we still have 4 that don't rely on GCs (three from GHB and Eradicate Trespassers. I don't think Harness the Spirit Paths is good – a 9" charge is just not reliable at all for a BT imo). And even then, Eradicate Trespassers could be denied by a smart opponent, unless you manage to cast a tree next to them.

I think it's more about having choices, particularly if that one GC is killed/sharpshootered - you'll run out of options pretty quick.

But glad to hear about the battle plans, I'll admit I haven't read them all yet, but sounds promising! I also agree on the internal balance being better, thinking maybe Sword hunters will see the light more now.

[KarrWolves]

1 minute ago, Domize said:

I agree we still have 4 that don't rely on GCs (three from GHB and Eradicate Trespassers. I don't think Harness the Spirit Paths is good – a 9" charge is just not reliable at all for a BT imo). And even then, Eradicate Trespassers could be denied by a smart opponent, unless you manage to cast a tree next to them.

I think it's more about having choices, particularly if that one GC is killed/sharpshootered - you'll run out of options pretty quick.

But glad to hear about the battle plans, I'll admit I haven't read them all yet, but sounds promising! I also agree on the internal balance being better, thinking maybe Sword hunters will see the light more now.

You know you can complete Harness the Spirit Paths with a move + charge and then use Strike and Fade? That's one of the easiest BT to complete.

[Domize]

2 minutes ago, KarrWolves said:

You know you can complete Harness the Spirit Paths with a move + charge and then use Strike and Fade? That's one of the easiest BT to complete.

Oh wow. The way the BT is worded made me absolutely think it was only triggered by Walk the Hidden Paths (set up then charge). I wonder if I've heard it talked about like that in a video review too, which probably cemented my opinion on it. I feel like an idiot, thanks for pointing that out to me!

[Alpidur]

What do you think guys about the new point drop? I think is amazing for our hero and personally I have a big problems with eroes because I don’t know which is better…I like the point drop in the Lady, 290 points is much stronger than before. What about Drycha? I guess that Drycha with 10 spite is very strong…but i am in trouble 🤣

[Arzalyn]

On 1/5/2023 at 5:53 PM, Alpidur said:

What do you think guys about the new point drop? I think is amazing for our hero and personally I have a big problems with eroes because I don’t know which is better…I like the point drop in the Lady, 290 points is much stronger than before. What about Drycha? I guess that Drycha with 10 spite is very strong…but i am in trouble 🤣

Its pretty good for our heroes, as they were pretty expensive. I just don't expect it to change much in terms of their play-ability, as its more of a matter of they doing something useful/reliable than been unplayable for being overcosted. Each of them already has its own niche, so its made some easier to list build around if they fit your strategy.

I imagine warsong, arch-rev and branchwych will see more play this season due to the gallatian champions battle tactics. Maybe the Lady will as well, as dryads are back in the menu now that the bounty hunters are gone. I expect dryads and spite-revs to be the biggest winners for use, as both are cheap, have a clear role inside the army and can now be used reinforced without the threat of being deleted in one swing.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Arzalyn

[Thugmullet]

On 1/4/2023 at 2:06 AM, KarrWolves said:

You know you can complete Harness the Spirit Paths with a move + charge and then use Strike and Fade? That's one of the easiest BT to complete.

Can you explain this please. I'm not trying to be a pain but I don't understand how you complete this BT without setting up the unit with its teleport. It seems pretty watertight with the rules. How does a normal move qualify. Not sure what I'm missing here. Understand I want you to be correct here.. I just don't see it.

[Azamar]

18 minutes ago, Thugmullet said:

Can you explain this please. I'm not trying to be a pain but I don't understand how you complete this BT without setting up the unit with its teleport. It seems pretty watertight with the rules. How does a normal move qualify. Not sure what I'm missing here. Understand I want you to be correct here.. I just don't see it.

You complete the tactic if a unit that was set up using the “from the woodland depths” rule made a charge. That rule includes both walk the hidden paths AND strike and fade, both of which involve you removing the unit and setting it up elsewhere. 

[Thugmullet]

3 hours ago, Azamar said:

You complete the tactic if a unit that was set up using the “from the woodland depths” rule made a charge. That rule includes both walk the hidden paths AND strike and fade, both of which involve you removing the unit and setting it up elsewhere. 

Thanks mate.

I did not see that at all. Makes sense now.

[Arzalyn]

On 12/24/2022 at 7:13 PM, KarrWolves said:

My lists are going up 25pts if these rumors are true 😔

The Battlescroll was just released and just the Seekers went up by 5 points, Scythe Kurnoths stayed the same!

[Azamar]

Now it’s official- I’m amazed that spirits of durthu are going down in cost - I wonder what that was based on as they already seem to be a must take? 

[KarrWolves]

9 hours ago, Azamar said:

Now it’s official- I’m amazed that spirits of durthu are going down in cost - I wonder what that was based on as they already seem to be a must take? 

They are not a must take, they are good but super swingy and therefore not reliable for extremely competitive play.

And the reason why they go down in points is probably just the % representation: they seem to be addressing mainly the internal balance in this Battlescroll.

[KarrWolves]

11 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

The Battlescroll was just released and just the Seekers went up by 5 points, Scythe Kurnoths stayed the same!

I saw that! I actually changed my list before seing that change, expecting it to go from 1940 to 1960 but it's still 1940 (and with LVO being so soon it'll stay like that).