AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Landohammer]

On 8/26/2019 at 12:03 AM, SkiRootz said:

My apologies , definitely an oversight, well, I played against a tzeentch daemon player today and got my magic suppressed hard with fate dice + lord of change unbinds. 0 successful spells all game which made 250 pt + of my army obsolete and took away the whole point of the spirit stave + throne of vines combo. Brutal.

 

Definitely a learning experience

Yea this is a lesson I also learned. It will also frequently happen vs Nagash, Khorne, Gloomspite and any time you play in the Shadow realm.

We as an army, just aren't that great at casting. We get no inherent buffs, and only one of our casters get to multi-cast. We also tend to block our own LOS alot. 

Truly magic armies are going to cast 6-9 spells each turn, usually with a bonus to cast or a reroll. Sylvaneth on the other hand, average 1-4 and usually one of those is Throne of Vines. 

Overtime I have just learned to not overly invest in wizards, battalions or endless spells. At the end end of the day, you win tournament games by putting bodies on objectives, and 250pts of bodies will never be useless. 

 

 

[Landohammer]

13 hours ago, Nerdkingdan said:

What would be an example of a magic heavy list, I am looking to get into Sylvaneth as a chance to use endless spells, etc...

As I posted earlier, Sylvaneth will probably never be great at magic heavy lists.

With that in mind, Alarielle is probably a great place to start. She is our only multi-caster and also has the best spell in our army on her warscroll.

Additionally Branchwraiths or Branchwyches with the Balewind Vortex or Chromantic Cogs and Gnarlroot Glade  can become quite effective, especially if they stay out of Unbind range of enemy casters.

 

[Trevelyan]

If you really wanted to go Magic heavy then you could play Gnarlroot with Alarielle, a Lord of the Clans battalion and an Outcasts battalion, and still have room for a branchwraith and a few endless spells. That would allow you to combine the Gnarlroot Chalice of Nectar with the Vesperal Gem and the Spiritsong Staff, giving you seven attempts to cast. Give Alarielle the Throne of Vines and between that, the Gem and the Chalice you should get a few spells out each turn even against another casting faction (other than Tzeentch, obviously). 

It wouldn’t be particularly competitive, but could be valid in a friendly game. Plus it has the benefit of clocking in at only 20 models (plus wyldwoods, Alarielle summons, Dryads summons and endless spells) and four drops. 

[5kaven5lave]

Ok guys, give it to me straight, I wanna play Sylvaneth Dreadwood with Spites and all the minus bravery gubbins - how many trees am I gonna need? I have one Citadel Wood at the moment and painting a huge amount more is gonna put me off. 

[Trevelyan]

1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Ok guys, give it to me straight, I wanna play Sylvaneth Dreadwood with Spites and all the minus bravery gubbins - how many trees am I gonna need? I have one Citadel Wood at the moment and painting a huge amount more is gonna put me off. 

You need all the trees. All. Of. Them. Why else would you play Sylvaneth? 

In practice probably only three or four Wyldwoods in total. One you place as faction terrain and the others you may want to summon. The summoning is entirely up to you - if you don’t want the woods then just don’t summon them. Dreadwood isn’t as dependent on Wyldwoods for movement as other glades, but they are still useful, and the Vengeful Skullroot (essential for gubbins) really likes to have them around. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Trevelyan

[Landohammer]

3 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Ok guys, give it to me straight, I wanna play Sylvaneth Dreadwood with Spites and all the minus bravery gubbins - how many trees am I gonna need? I have one Citadel Wood at the moment and painting a huge amount more is gonna put me off. 

At the absolute bare minimum, you need 2 forests. Your primary allegiance ability is the teleport, so without two to port between, you are handicapping yourself severely. 

The new forest models are surprisingly quick to paint if you leave off the branches and leaves at first. They are a fraction of the surface area of the old Citadel Woods. Just add the branches later when you have extra time. 

[Aezeal]

4 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Ok guys, give it to me straight, I wanna play Sylvaneth Dreadwood with Spites and all the minus bravery gubbins - how many trees am I gonna need? I have one Citadel Wood at the moment and painting a huge amount more is gonna put me off. 

spray trunk brown, spray leaves green and then put them on... not much time and much better than plastic. If yo have more time put some washes on brown and green and its acceptable

[Xil]

Painting 30 Dryads is a pain, Wyldwoods will be easy

 

Man those Dryads are killing me 

[Trevelyan]

1 hour ago, Xil said:

Man those Dryads are killing me 

You’re doing it wrong. The Dryads are supposed to kill the other guy. 😛

[The Red King]

On 8/26/2019 at 12:56 PM, Trevelyan said:

I missed the branchwych in the list. She would do as an extra caster, but then why not give her one of the healing spells?

I think you are selling the deep wood lore short. You’ve got Durthu as a heavy hitter and multiple small units of sword hunters (IMO you’d have been better building the nine melee hunters you have as six scythes and three swords rather than nine swords). Durthu’s damage output drops when he starts taking wounds, and small units of hunters are easy pickings for other heavy infantry - you could easily lose two from a given unit to a half credible offence and a lone sword hunter Is a sad mini. I would recommend that you reconsider the benefits of keeping Durthu properly healthy and being able to respawn hunters with some reliability. 

If you don’t go for Gnarlroot then you’ve got the makings of a reasonable Heartwood list with all of those hunters, or you could consider Harvestboon to help Durthu survive/avoid retaliation in combat. 

My prediction for the list you’ve got currently is that you’ll lack the ability to take a punch, and however reliably you can summon Dryads, it won’t make up for the losses you suffer among more significant units. 

I was a little confused about your caster comments. I was like "dang I know the Branchwych is bad but is she a literal non unit on the table?" I'm fairly new to Sylvaneth.

I moved around some of the spells with regrowth on the TLA and I could probably put verduous on the wych, It's  just a hard cast for someone with no casting buffs so I liked it better on the branchwraith which doesn't HAVE to stay miles away from the front if I can protect her. So against non-lfying factions I can screen.

I like the sword hunters but may consider some way to proxy or maybe magnetize the weapons so I can run a 6 man scythe unit in winterleaf sometime.

Trust me keeping Durthu healthy is one of my prime goals. The hope is to hide him from LoS of anything long ranged and scary with trees and then use regrowth and nurtured by magic to hopefully keep him going.

Heartwood hasn't really been on my radar but I'll give it another look and yeah Harvestboon is a serious contender in my mind but I feel like I just like Gnarlroot better for some reason I can't place.

I appreciate that synopsis and hope I can use chaff screens to pick fights on my terms. I'm not super familiar with the local meta but I don't think there's much HoS and they changed FEC's ASF to only in their turn right?

[CanHammer-darren]

So I want to start sylvaneth from scratch and I want to be able to have flexibility in my lists instead of just building one list. 

 

How many dryads do i do I need to buy

how many tree revenants do I need to buy

how many sets of 3 trees 

[Emissary]

10 minutes ago, CanHammer-darren said:

So I want to start sylvaneth from scratch and I want to be able to have flexibility in my lists instead of just building one list. 

 

How many dryads do i do I need to buy

how many tree revenants do I need to buy

how many sets of 3 trees 

Dryads: 30-40 if you just summon

Tree revenants:. Squad of 10 and squad of 5 at the most (seriously look at spites though)

Wyldwoods I recommend 4.

[Trevelyan]

4 hours ago, Emissary said:

Dryads: 30-40 if you just summon

Tree revenants:. Squad of 10 and squad of 5 at the most (seriously look at spites though)

Wyldwoods I recommend 4.

That looks about right to give you options. 

Note that Dryads come in boxes of 16, so the option there are 16, 32, 48, etc. Get a couple of Start collecting boxes and you’ll have 32 Dryads, a Treelord Ancient, a Spirit of a Durthu and more branchwyches than you need. That’s probably the best way to start. And 32 Dryads allows you to make three Branch nymphs (unit leaders) for maximum WYSIWYG flexibility. A third Start collecting would give you a standard Treelord and more Dryads. 

I’ve got 20 tree revenants and have only once put them all on the table. I’ve got 30 Spite Revenants and am not convinced it’s enough with the new book. (Strictly speaking 22 and 33 for WYSIWYG). 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Trevelyan
Details

[Boneflame]

Hello Guys.

I am just woundering what to add to get my force to a Full 2K army. 
I got lucky enough to get a looncurse Box and traded the Goblins for more trees. 
I also got some others and did a alot of building and Painting and ended up with the following:

Durthu
Drycha
Arch-Revenant
3 Hunters
3 Hunters
15 Spite Revenants
5 unbuild revenants (either spites or trees)
1 Treelord.
this adds up to 1600 or 1620 Points. 

I dont want to add a bunch of Dryads, i just dont enjoy playing "horde" armies. 
So maybe a TLA or just some Branchwyches/Wraiths and some endless Spells. 
I might be able to convert teh Treelord to an TLA. 

I would love to hear your suggestions. Thanks alot. 

[zlem]

On 8/8/2019 at 9:22 PM, Fluxlord said:

Fairly easy to read. 1 is a skull 6 is the Sylvaneth logo. 2, 3, 4, 5 are the amount of leaves on a twig. I love those dice and gonna buy me sme more I think.

If you look at this picture, by the sequence logic the Sylvaneth logo should be 1 and the skull should be 6.

[CanHammer-darren]

Why spites over dryads

[Emissary]

2 hours ago, zlem said:

If you look at this picture, by the sequence logic the Sylvaneth logo should be 1 and the skull should be 6.

I noticed this and checked it when it came out.  By where the pips are for 2, 3, 4, and 5 in relation to the 1 and 6 on other dice, the skull is indeed the 1 and the logo is the 6.  It's just wrong on the package.

 

Edit: Here's what I mean.  Notice in this picture for the Sylvaneth dice that the 3 is to the left of the 2 when the Sylvaneth symbol is face up in the bottom dice:

 

Notice that the 3 is to the left of the 2 when the 6 is face up in these dice:

Edited August 28, 2019 by Emissary

[Aezeal]

Those are moronic dice which don't read quickly. <-- opinion, I know

Edited August 28, 2019 by Aezeal

[Aezeal]

On 8/27/2019 at 8:23 PM, Landohammer said:

At the absolute bare minimum, you need 2 forests. Your primary allegiance ability is the teleport, so without two to port between, you are handicapping yourself severely. 

The new forest models are surprisingly quick to paint if you leave off the branches and leaves at first. They are a fraction of the surface area of the old Citadel Woods. Just add the branches later when you have extra time. 

having 2 also means you can make a minimum sized forest with the 2 smallest arches if there is not enough room for other forests at start which tougher placement requirements.

[Emissary]

8 hours ago, CanHammer-darren said:

Why spites over dryads

Spites are cheaper and hit harder in melee.   Dryads are good but it's much harder to get the -1 to hit now and usually they're just summoned.

[The Red King]

15 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

That looks about right to give you options. 

Note that Dryads come in boxes of 16, so the option there are 16, 32, 48, etc. Get a couple of Start collecting boxes and you’ll have 32 Dryads, a Treelord Ancient, a Spirit of a Durthu and more branchwyches than you need. That’s probably the best way to start. And 32 Dryads allows you to make three Branch nymphs (unit leaders) for maximum WYSIWYG flexibility. A third Start collecting would give you a standard Treelord and more Dryads. 

I’ve got 20 tree revenants and have only once put them all on the table. I’ve got 30 Spite Revenants and am not convinced it’s enough with the new book. (Strictly speaking 22 and 33 for WYSIWYG). 

Don't forget you can kit bash an extra dryad with the branchwych to get a branchwraith if you want (pretty much swap the arms and maybe add some more branches and flock)

[Emissary]

So, I've played my Heartwood list a few times. and learned some things.  I'll use tonight's game against a buddy's FEC as an example.

I brought:

Drycha with Regrowth
Arch-Revenant General
Branchwraith with Horn of the Consort and Verderous Harmony
Branchwraith with Throne of Vines
5 Spite-Revenants
5 Tree-Revenants
5 Tree-Revenants
6 Kurnoth Hunters with Scythes
3 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatswords
3 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatbows
3 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatbows
3 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatbows

My opponent had 3 Ghoul Kings on Royal Terrorgheists, Abhorrant Archregent, 2x10 Ghouls and 20 Ghouls.

Overall, I must say the list did amazing (as they have overall), even with my opponent's really good rolls.  

1) I've mentioned several times that I think Kurnoths with Greatbows are the only real sub-par unit in the list.  I still feel that way, but with the artifact and in high enough numbers they do well.  First turn they sniped out the Abhorrant Arch-Regent and put 4 wounds on his general, even though they rolled fairly badly on the general.  Later a unit in the woods and another unit next to it held up a AGKoRT for 2 rounds in melee finally killing it, though 4 died in the process.

2) In playing the army, I feel that you want to pull your woods back so that it's poking out of your deployment zone.  This way you can shove a unit of bows into it to make them more of a pain to kill.  Then you can summon another woods and repeat it if you have the space.  This really helped them survive the melee in point #1.  Also, the army wants to play defensively early to pick out key synergy targets like the Arch-Regent and to start working down large threats.  Once you with stand the early stages, then you move out and start on the objectives.  If you play it right you should be able to retake the lead if you lose it early by being defensive.  You do have to watch wood placement so you don't take out LoS for your Bow Hunters.  Though you can use it against stuff like DoT by blocking off a lot of their shooting and magic while you can happily see their Lord of Change.  As always it depends on space on the table...

3) Another thing that's nice is that the army really doesn't care about going first or second much.  Unless they hold back their synergy pieces you can begin taking them out immediately then win ties on initiative.  It helped me in my game.  No free units for the Arch-Regent then I won 2 ties.

4) The army has enough to withstand a bad turn as long as your luck hasn't been awful all game.  Against my buddy, His AGKoRT General killed all 6 of my Scythe Hunters without them ever getting to fight turn 1 (How I loathe you 6 mortal wound bite that can be done twice with feeding frenzy.  Why isn't it d6 mortal wounds...?)  It looked really bad.  But I still had Drycha, 3x3 bows and the swords.  I got to go next, the Greatswords killed his general, I got another AGKoRT down to 4 wounds and Drycha wiped out a unit of Ghouls to take that side of the board.  

5) The artifact is straight up amazing, and if you play defensively you can get a lot within the radius.  Just about all game all the Hunters or all but the swords were in the 12" radius.  It almost makes the Arch-Revenant unnecessary unless you start getting Hunters outside the bubble.  Though her command trait is nice.  It makes the Hunters stupid lethal, but you have to remember if you lose who it's on, you lose the buff so if your opponent realizes it, they may start gunning for that model (and they should).

6) The main goal is to turtle up some and stay together and try to break the back of their army by taking out the synergy pieces and just withstanding them.  Like I said, I lost my 6 Kurnoth Hunters and my Spites turn 1, then lost my Branchwraith with Throne of Vines turn 2 then the only Dryads I had summoned turn 3.  Meanwhile my army had killed the Arch-Regent turn 1, the General and 2 units of Ghouls round 2, then the other 2 AGKoRTs round 3 and after that round he conceded.  His thought was that chewing through 75 wounds of Kurnoth Hunters, especially ones rerolling all hits, getting one back a turn from a spell and getting a rerollable 4+ save ( 3+ save in the woods) was really, really tough.  And with the Bows throwing out 12 shots a turn rerolling all misses he had to deal with them quickly before he had lost too much.

Overall, the list has legs and I'm enjoying it.  

One variation I actually like playing better i:

Alarielle with Regrowth (Summons in 3 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatswords)
Branchwraith General with Horn of the Consort and Verderous Harmony
Branchwraith with Throne of Vines
5 Spite-Revenants
5 Spite-Revenants
5 Spite-Revenants
6 Kurnoth Hunters with Scythes
3 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatbows
3 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatbows
3 Kurnoth Hunters with Greatbows

Alarielle is a freight train in the army.  Her mass heal really helps all the Kurnoth units and the reroll 1s to hit and wounds command ability is money for her beetle against those giant units of Daemonettes or Skaven.  Otherwise you can use her command ability to allow all those kurnoth units and stuff close to them to reroll those 1s to wound.  Finally, her spear also has a great range and works as a finisher if you nailed that Keeper of Secrets or Lord of Change and it somehow survived with a few wounds left.  Compared to the last list you really only lose Drycha and the Arch-Revenant, who isn't nearly as necessary with the artifact and Alarielle's command ability.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Emissary

[Emissary]

I also need to mention that bringing 10 Tree-Revenants to kill lone heroes in the backfield, especially with charge help from the Hive is extra money.  5 won't usually do enough but 10 with the 6" pile in will.  It's becoming a part of my army more and more before I went down this Heartwood Path, though it may get added in by dropping the Arch-Revenant for them in the Drycha list.  I'm also considering turning in the 2nd unit of Tree-Revenants into Spites, replacing the Horn Branchwraith with Harmony with a Branchwych and then bringing a Balewind Vortex for extra nastiness when they're hitting my lines.  Only problem is that she can't move to shuffle around the Horn if the Hunters need to move.  I could also bring one of the 2 damage endless spells to extra punch instead.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Emissary

[Trevelyan]

13 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Those are moronic dice which don't read quickly. <-- opinion, I know

I used the dice for the first time last night. In the space of a single game I went from struggling to read them quickly to easily assessing them at a glance. My opponent felt exactly the same - he went from resenting my “gimmick” dice to reading them quickly. 

They might look odd, but they really aren’t hard to read once you get started. 

[Trevelyan]

21 hours ago, Emissary said:

I noticed this and checked it when it came out.  By where the pips are for 2, 3, 4, and 5 in relation to the 1 and 6 on other dice, the skull is indeed the 1 and the logo is the 6.  It's just wrong on the package.

Edit: Here's what I mean.  Notice in this picture for the Sylvaneth dice that the 3 is to the left of the 2 when the Sylvaneth symbol is face up in the bottom dice:

Notice that the 3 is to the left of the 2 when the 6 is face up in these dice:

[pictures shipped for brevity]

That’s certainly one way to solve it. 

The other would be to be to look at the product description on the GW website which states: “This set inlcudes [sic] 20 brown dice divided into four sets of five that each feature pips with one of the colours of the seasons - and special stylings on every face, including skulls for the 1s, and Sylvaneth icons for the 6s.”