Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[ppetford]

Hand of Glory on big papa Durthu is super tasty if you can get him into a unit on full health. Played the free spirits battalion as part of a mixed order army before GH17 dropped, he just always got targeted first and neutered generally before he could do much most games.

In my list I was thinking of using the Loremaster to buff the Venator flappy dude for a first turn cheeky snipe at an opponents key buff hero. Then subsequent turns to buff Drycha / Ancient etc. depending on situation. Will see how it goes, the beast Mage is definitely a good shout as an alternative.

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, ppetford said:

Hand of Glory on big papa Durthu is super tasty if you can get him into a unit on full health. Played the free spirits battalion as part of a mixed order army before GH17 dropped, he just always got targeted first and neutered generally before he could do much most games.

In my list I was thinking of using the Loremaster to buff the Venator flappy dude for a first turn cheeky snipe at an opponents key buff hero. Then subsequent turns to buff Drycha / Ancient etc. depending on situation. Will see how it goes, the beast Mage is definitely a good shout as an alternative.

In sylvaneth list we heal our Durthu... keep him on that nice 6 damage.

[Lanoss]

Hi all!

ill have a 1500pt tournament coming up next month. 

Here are a few combos I've thought of. Mainly what I enjoy playing with as well as effective units. I'm not that interested in taking  battalions given how costly they are, id  much rather take more units

Critique is welcome

1500pt tournament 

Tree lord Ancient (300)
Durthu (400)
TRevs x5 (80)
TRevs x5 (80)
Hunters x3 scythes (220)

Hunters x3 bows (220)
Wych (80)

Or 
Tree lord Ancient x2 (600)
TRevs x5 (80)
TRevs x5 (80)
Hunters x6 (440) bows
Wych (80)

Or
Tree lord Ancient (300)
TRevs x5 (80)
TRevs x5 (80)
Hunters x3 (220) scythes

 Hunters x6 (440) bows
Wych (80)
Dryads x30 (270)

[Mirage8112]

It's nice to see this thread come back to life. Hooray for the new GHB!

So, I'm in the process of finalizing my tournament list for this run of the GHB. I still have a lot of play testing to do, but I'm fairly confident this list will do what it needs to do.

It's a modified version of my previous dreadwood list:

Allegiance: Order
Branchwraith (80)
- Artefact: Briarsheath  
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Drycha Hamadreth (280)
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Branchwych (80)
- Artefact: Warsong Stave  
- Deepwood Spell: Throne of Vines

30 x Dryads (270)
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (440)
- Scythes
Treelord (240)
Dreadwood Wargrove (200)
Outcasts (90)

Total: 2000/2000

I've played around with a few variations on this list, swapping out Drycha for a TLA, playing with the hunter unit size ect ect. But I think this list has the answer to a lot of the questions we've been grappling with here in this thread. 

Firstly, it's a single drop list, which gives me a chance to swipe first turn if it looks advantageous, and allows me to capitalize on any mistakes my opponent makes in his deployment. While the hunters don't hit quite as hard they did in the previous incarnation of the list (no Alarielle means no command ability, but since hunters hit/wound on a 3+ they only squeeze a couple extra wounds from rerolls anyway) they can still easily put a big dent in an unprotected unit, doing ~15 wounds at -2 rend (12 from the Scythes + 3 mortal wounds from stomps) or possibly even killing medium-armored characters (I.e. Lord of Change, Bloodthirsters, ect ect). Also, if you roll at least 2 stratagems (66% chance) you stand a good chance of getting Drycha stuck into combat on that first turn (free move of 9" + regular movement of 9" + 6" charge), Which adds another 10 wounds or so at -1 rend. Bringing the total first turn wounds dealt to ~25. Then, depending on where I decide to bring the spites down, it's very possible any unit hit will need total battleshock on 2D6. That's enough to put any enemy on the back foot turn 1. 

However, the weakness of the earlier dreadwood list is somewhat mitigated by the changes to the GHB. @scrubyandwells brought up several scenarios where certain opponents now have the potential to Alpha-block or Alpha-bunker since gaining access to single-drop capability or fancy-shmancy movement tricks. If it looks like I'm going to be facing a alpha list, instead of using my free-redeploy offensively, I can use it defensively by dropping 30 Dryads into a Wyldwood on an objective before the game even starts. That way, I can easily hold the objective for a number of turns, I can prevent any enemy heroes/behemoths from gaining control of the objective, and as my dryads take casualties, I can remove the ones outside the wood boundaries, till they can gain that cover save from being completely within terrain. Plus, I then have a decent shot at a double turn, and with the hunter also making the most of the free move, they'll be in a good position to charge if the enemy wants to roll up on the non-dryad infested objectives. 

The outcasts will function mostly the same as before, with 2 units mixed into the dryads and the other 2 units palling around with either the hunters or the Treelord. I will plan on them primarily hanging back, (because of their fragility) with the Treelord/Hunters/drayds tanking the damage and holding enemy in place to take advantage of 2d6-bravery worth of mortal wounds, which will be deadly vs low bravery armies (ironjaws, arcanites, bloodbound ect) and in a pinch I can always burn them as chaff if something really big and nasty wants to try and charge. 

My item choices are also a departure from what I've usually taken. Drycha sports Verdant Blessing to potentially throw down an extra Wyldwood as she crosses the table for the alpha strike, or if playing defensively I can insulate her with 2-3 units of outcasts to discourage anyone getting near her and have her call a forest before getting into combat (truthfully, I don't think she'll be a target if I have 30 dryads sitting on an objective. My guess is that the pressure to clear them off the objective will be greater than the desire to try to get into my deployment zone and tangle with everything there.)

I've also made the Branchwraith the general since she has a natural -1 to hit while near a wyldwood, and taking briarsheath on her puts her at -2 to hit.  That way I can bring her down into the dryad nest 1st turn and nobody will be able to get anywhere near her. The only solution for taking her out will be at range, but the hit penalty means even Skyfires will have tough time sniping her out. Plus, she's also taking regrowth to top up her health if a few shots slip through. It would be hilarious to get all three stratagems and reduce all spells shooting and abilities to 12" and watch the enemy scratch their head trying to decide how to kill her in that first critical turn. 

The Branchwytch is there to support the Treelord, since the two of them together can effectively do everything a TLA can, (the Deepwood Stave gives her access to a loose approximation of the TLA's Awakening of the wood spell) And with a casting value of 7, Throne of Vines takes the edge off, and makes it far more reliable cast (+D3 to casting and unbinding, for an average casting value of 5)

I have enough heroes to compete in hero based scenarios, I have one super mobile horde, 2 behemoths and some surprising chaff-bombs with the outcasts. It would be nice to have access to a command ability, but the TLA's command ability isn't super-duper amazing in this list (rerolling 1's gives the dryads a slight survival bump. But there's 30 of them and I can stand to lose a few. Besides, inspiring presence will probably save more dryads than rerolling saves of 1. Also, rerolling 1's won't help the spites that much, and regrowth mostly has my multi-wound models covered). Likewise, Alarielle's command ability is well out of reach points-wise. So I don't see too much I can do about that. 

I'm a little nervous not having an acorn for a second forest, but truthfully, I'm not terribly sure I need to guarantee the second forest. The Dryads benefit more than anyone else, and they'll get a forest no matter what. None of the other units really need a second forest for mobility, since they'll likely get free moves from the Dreadwood sneak-attack stratagem, which means they'll be well on their way to capturing 2nd and 3rd objectives giving my opponent a good reason to come to me. But again, there's always a chance  Drycha will be able to throw a forest down to give me a little extra breathing room and area denial. But that's really just icing rather than cake. 

Thoughts comments and criticisms always welcome  

-F

   
 

[Paul G]

Great list man, similar to what I've been running minus my TLA! Would be interested to see how it does in some games, especially the Branchwraith!

[Aezeal]

11 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

Thoughts comments and criticisms always welcome  

-F

   
 

Let me know how it works. You lowered your alpha strike a lot but have more late game and anti bravery potential... wondering how that works out. Haven't heard results of alarielle dreadwood either.. Anyone tried that already?

[Nico]

I think @Mirage8112 is the only player who has tried it. I'm considering it too.

[Aezeal]

1 minute ago, Nico said:

I think @Mirage8112 is the only player who has tried it. I'm considering it too.

Can't remember seeing his view on how it played, personally I think the alarielle list going all in on alpha strike would be better and wonder why he moved away from it. 

Still wondering about opinions on the relictor as ally btw. -1 to hit stacking seems great and he's cheap and reasonably durable.

[Nico]

The short range on the Relictor is the only downside there. He is a bargain for the cost.

[Nico]

List looks good @Mirage8112 - I'd be tempted to take Alarielle and 30 Dryads instead and try that. Perhaps some allied shooting.

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

List looks good @Mirage8112 - I'd be tempted to take Alarielle and 30 Dryads instead and try that. Perhaps some allied shooting.

Just theory hammering in my head id say go full on the alpha strike and pick the important targets. 6 hunters(or 9) to teleport and Alarielle and drycha to get bonus move. Hit as hard as you can with those units and then hope it's enough (and each of those units is durable and can be healed so it not like it's a glass cannon build). 0 deployment lists might be annoying though.

[swarmofseals]

@Mirage8112 very interesting list. I'm not a huge fan of alpha lists in a general sense, but dropping a wood full of dryads on an objective on turn 0 is immensely appealing. 

The one thing that I don't quite like about the list is that Branchwych. I'm not sure I really see the upside vs just taking a TLA. Even if you did want to go for a Treelord + caster, I'd be tempted to go with a second Branchwraith with Silverwood Circlet and The Reaping. Seems like it might have higher damage potential. 

 

Lord Relictor seems really tasty, too. Doesn't it work in multiples? Not for your list, of course as it would ruin the 1 drop nature.

[Lanoss]

Hey!

which is everyone's preferred artefact for a Spirit of Durthu?

Briarsheath (-1 to Hit) or Oaken Armour (+1 save)???

Two of my mates have each suggested the other 

Note: I run a TLA (general) and a Wych in addition 

thoughts?

[Mirage8112]

15 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Personally I think the alarielle list going all in on alpha strike would be better and wonder why he moved away from it. 

Still wondering about opinions on the relictor as ally btw. -1 to hit stacking seems great and he's cheap and reasonably durable.

The Alarielle version of this list hit like a truck, but it was so dependent on getting the first turn. The list was playable if you didn't get the first turn, but it wasn't really able to take advantage the battalions special rules at that point. Re-deploy wouldn't help you if your opponent got the first turn, since a big unit of hunters 5" away from the enemies front lines was just begging to get charged by everything and it's mother. So re-deploy was a useless trait, and movement wasn't any better, since it put you in nearly the same position. That basically meant you were paying points for something that you couldn't take advantage of 50% of the time. 

Still playable mind you, but kind of suffered from "all the eggs in one basket of death" problem. 

 

15 hours ago, Nico said:

List looks good @Mirage8112 - I'd be tempted to take Alarielle and 30 Dryads instead and try that. Perhaps some allied shooting.

I did consider that. But ultimately I decided against it on the grounds that it left the board too thin. To fit in Alarielle, you'd have to cut all the heroes plus the TL, and then choose between Drycha or cutting the Hunters down to x3. Losing Drycha means losing an anti-horde solution, but cutting the hunters down to 3X means you lose you're alpha-strike capability.  Plus in terms of "fighting centers", the Dryads would be sitting on the wyldwood without any support, and since Alarielle would be forced to do most of the heavy lifting she could very easily be cornered and overwhelmed.

14 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Just theory hammering in my head id say go full on the alpha strike and pick the important targets. 6 hunters(or 9) to teleport and Alarielle and drycha to get bonus move. Hit as hard as you can with those units and then hope it's enough (and each of those units is durable and can be healed so it not like it's a glass cannon build). 0 deployment lists might be annoying though.

Exactly. I suspect that we'll be seeing more 0 drop armies at tournaments in the future. But even still, what does the list do if your opponent goes first? As I said before, with the previous dreadwood list if you went second, there was pretty much nothing the battalion rules offered you. They are also significantly more expensive than they used to be, with the battalion points being more expensive than a regular Treelord (280 vs 260 pts). So 50% of the time I'm going to have 280 points deficit vs the army across from me. Not impossible to overcome, but a handicap nonetheless. 

Granted you wouldn't necessarily one across a lot or even any at an event. But there are a few other issues with that variation of the list as well. Which is if you opponent can effectively bubblewrap he might be able to neuter your alpha strike. Not a lot of people are using chaff, but it's a very easy counter to this type of first turn assault. There's also the problem of horde armies, insofar as the list doesn't really have a solution for this new facet of the game (Ultimately, this was the reason I opted to modify the original list.)
 

1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:

The one thing that I don't quite like about the list is that Branchwych. I'm not sure I really see the upside vs just taking a TLA. Even if you did want to go for a Treelord + caster, I'd be tempted to go with a second Branchwraith with Silverwood Circlet and The Reaping. Seems like it might have higher damage potential. 

I toyed around with idea a couple of times, and I certainly see your point. My intention was to make the branchwraith the general, since it was guaranteed that I could stack -2 hit onto her. With her being the general, it meant I couldn't use the TLA's command ability. It also meant he wouldn't be sitting in the forest surrounded by the dryads, which would mean he would be out fighting and capturing objectives. Since his roll would basically be CC, the TL is better suited to this roll, and puts out slightly more damage in CC. But, with his reduced price this round, I could fit a branchwytch in and give her the Stave and put her near the wood with the dryads. That way I have the TLA's spell casting ability in the forest, further bolstering the Dryads without crowding them out (due to a huge footprint); AND I have a slightly stronger melee TL out in CC. It basically means I can cover 2 times as much area by allowing my "TLA" be in two places at once. 

Plus, if I can get all the dryads in the wood I can move the forests around like a giant movement tray thanks to Treesong.

I don't know if it will be useful but I just really want to do it for some reason lol. 
 

[swarmofseals]

29 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

I toyed around with idea a couple of times, and I certainly see your point. My intention was to make the branchwraith the general, since it was guaranteed that I could stack -2 hit onto her. With her being the general, it meant I couldn't use the TLA's command ability. It also meant he wouldn't be sitting in the forest surrounded by the dryads, which would mean he would be out fighting and capturing objectives. Since his roll would basically be CC, the TL is better suited to this roll, and puts out slightly more damage in CC. But, with his reduced price this round, I could fit a branchwytch in and give her the Stave and put her near the wood with the dryads. That way I have the TLA's spell casting ability in the forest, further bolstering the Dryads without crowding them out (due to a huge footprint); AND I have a slightly stronger melee TL out in CC. It basically means I can cover 2 times as much area by allowing my "TLA" be in two places at once. 

Plus, if I can get all the dryads in the wood I can move the forests around like a giant movement tray thanks to Treesong.

I don't know if it will be useful but I just really want to do it for some reason lol. 
 

I feel like I'm missing something -- what's the advantage of having the wraith as the general? It's not like the TLA will be easy for your opponent to kill, and you can still have your wraith bunkered up with -2 to hit casting regrowth. Even if the TLA just hangs out next to the wyldwood stomping to support the dryads it should work nicely, and the command ability is nice (albeit losing it isn't the end of the world like you said). I feel like we always end up going with Oaken Armour/Briarsheath and Gnarled Warrior on our TLA, but it'd be sure interesting to try Silverwood Reaping on her. With that big base you'd be hitting a pretty massive area. Since you've got a reliable Regrowth that is very hard to kill taking max defense on the TLA is less necessary. Even if you do go with a second wych/wraith I'd be tempted by Silverwood/Reaping over the Throne/Treesong plan. Throne/Treesong seems like a lot of setup for too low payoff. That said, I do respect your desire to go surfing  -- I bet it'll be not so useful most of the time, but rarely it will have a big and dramatic impact.

[Deathawaits101]

 New to the game and new to the army. I'm so sorry if this questions seems dumb.

Ok so at a tournament and mission is already picked terrain is pre set, we have not rolled to see who goes first can i place my free wildwood on a objective on the table? Or is the objective counted for Terrain? Maybe model when placing your wood.  

 

I just want to play I right.

 

[Kaleun]

2 hours ago, Lanoss said:

Hey!

which is everyone's preferred artefact for a Spirit of Durthu?

Briarsheath (-1 to Hit) or Oaken Armour (+1 save)???

Two of my mates have each suggested the other 

Note: I run a TLA (general) and a Wych in addition 

thoughts?

Durthu is a named Character. Neither artefacts nor Traits on him.

[Uprising]

5 hours ago, Kaleun said:

Durthu is a named Character. Neither artefacts nor Traits on him.

Incorrect.  Spirit of Durthu is now a non name hero.  He can get artifacts and traits, you can even take multiple. 

[Dragon10]

Just now, Uprising said:

Incorrect.  Spirit of Durthu is now a non name hero.  He can get artifacts and traits, you can even take multiple. 

This was my understanding too.

 

I was thinking of getting him 

+1 armour save 

and

reroll the first missed hit in each phase to maximise his killing power without 

 

does the to hit bonus stack with the stomp?

can you give 2 magical artefacts to the same hero if you have a battalion?

[Mirage8112]

1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:

I feel like I'm missing something -- what's the advantage of having the wraith as the general? It's not like the TLA will be easy for your opponent to kill, and you can still have your wraith bunkered up with -2 to hit casting regrowth. Even if the TLA just hangs out next to the wyldwood stomping to support the dryads it should work nicely, and the command ability is nice (albeit losing it isn't the end of the world like you said).

That's all true. And it's not at all a bad plan. However, I think fielding the list this way has some small advantages. 

My thought with making the branchwraith the general is specifically a deterrent to large shoals of skyfires, and ranged mortal wounds from shooting abilities in general. Skyfires are capable for doing D3 mortal wounds on a roll of 5+ with nearly shaman. If I were a Tzeentch player, I would put a high priority of knocking out a TLA since the max he can stack on me at range is -1 (from Briarsheath). A Branchwraith however sporting a -2 will be unlikely to draw too much attention, as sniping her out will likely require investing a large portion of shots better suited elsewhere. Ergo, I keep my general and avoid losing any dryads to battleshock. And I the opponent does dedicate a large supply of firepower to take her out; that's great. It means she's basically soaked a round of shooting that might have seriously damaged the dryads, the hunters, or the spites. I would be just fine with that as a sacrifice play. Generally it's because she doesn't contribute a huge amount she becomes less of a target, and so is allowed to contribute a little bit through the entire game. 

While this isn't exactly an MSU list, it's a list that's built with redundancies. The more standbys roles each unit can fill, the less devastating a loss of any one unit will be. Currently I have 1 bunker (30 dryads, branchwraith, branchwytch) and 1 fighting centers (Hunters, 2x spites) and 1 fighting flank (2 x 5 spites and a Treelord). If I swap out the Treelord+ branchwytch for 1 TLA, the I have to choose with which of the 3 he will fight. 

I absolutely want a second spellcaster in the woods backing up my branchwraith. Spells are likely to be the most efficient method of trying to thin out the dryad horde (since spells don't suffer hit penalties, and generally deal mortal wounds) and having second wizard available to dispel will come in quite handy. But if I place the TLA near the forest, it means I lose my fighting flank. Sure I can scoot the hunters over a bit, but that's a lot of board to cover, and a fast army would be perfectly capable of capturing flank objectives with nothing able to get there in time to contest them. 

Splitting the TLA up into a Wytch/TL also means I can utilize the D3 to unbinds from Throne of Vines which also offers me a little extra magical defense, and I still get the forest attacking whatever tries to mob the dryads. By splitting them up I can put the relevant skills to use where they're needed and expand the units I have available to contest objectives away from the bunker. 

Plus if I were to lose the TLA, I lose the melee support and the caster support. If I lose the wytch, I still have a very capable melee behemoth. If I lose the Behemoth, I still have the wytch capable of acting as a support hero. Plus, I get an extra 5 wounds between the two, which means the combo can take more punishment and still be effective. 

2 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

I feel like we always end up going with Oaken Armour/Briarsheath and Gnarled Warrior on our TLA, but it'd be sure interesting to try Silverwood Reaping on her. With that big base you'd be hitting a pretty massive area. Since you've got a reliable Regrowth that is very hard to kill taking max defense on the TLA is less necessary. Even if you do go with a second wych/wraith I'd be tempted by Silverwood/Reaping over the Throne/Treesong plan. Throne/Treesong seems like a lot of setup for too low payoff.

 
I have always run my TLA in a dryad bunker. I can count one 1 hand the number of times he's actually had to see combat. I have fielded the regular TL on a number of occasions. He has always been very effective smashing face. I don't really feel that I need the circlet/reaping combo, only because I feel I have enough damage output between Drycha/TL/Hunters/spites. I'm just not convinced the 4-5 mortal wounds from a reaper bomb (2-3 units in range) offsets the utility and board control I get from splitting them up. Plus, the TLA can only cast 1 spell anyway. If he's defending the bunker, he likely won't be casting Reaping. Treesong and the reaping will do almost the same amount of wounds (D3 to any unit within 1" of the forest. And I guarantee my opponent will invest a 3-4 units to try and clear out the dryad horde.) And actually has the same area of effect (the FAQ confirmed it's multipliers before modifiers, so the Reaping would give you a 24" bubble, whereas a WW area of effect is 25" give or take) so it's not as if I'm really giving any wounds up from spells; I'm just shifting them around a bit and might even get a few more If my opponent overcommits.  

 

[vesco]

2 hours ago, Uprising said:

Incorrect.  Spirit of Durthu is now a non name hero.  He can get artifacts and traits, you can even take multiple. 

Where did you get that information?

[Uprising]

5 hours ago, vesco said:

Where did you get that information?

GHB2016 pg 145.  GHB2017 pg I do not remember(at work atm, do not have it with me). 

[Kaylethia]

7 minutes ago, vesco said:

Where did you get that information?

It's been like that since the first GHB. For example, Alarielle and Drycha are marked as unique in the Sylvaneth pitched battle profiles, which signifies a named character. SoD has no such notes. The Sylvaneht battletome even has a section on the Sons of Durthu, named Spirit of Durthu in the game. According to the lore, they're descendants of Durthu, not Durthu himself.

[Nico]

4 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

I did consider that. But ultimately I decided against it on the grounds that it left the board too thin. To fit in Alarielle, you'd have to cut all the heroes plus the TL, and then choose between Drycha or cutting the Hunters down to x3. Losing Drycha means losing an anti-horde solution, but cutting the hunters down to 3X means you lose you're alpha-strike capability.  Plus in terms of "fighting centers", the Dryads would be sitting on the wyldwood without any support, and since Alarielle would be forced to do most of the heavy lifting she could very easily be cornered and overwhelmed.

I meant dropping the Kurnoths entirely and using the Druads as the deploy 5" away unit. While not amazing in combat they will be hopefully 60 attacks at 3+, 4+ rerollable (which is decent). Alarielle goes after the more armoured stuff. Probably put the Mystic Shield on the Dryads.

I think you will be controlling first turn far more than half the time. Almost no-one is using single drop armies now (except Sylvaneth).

Tzeentch never do it any more as they need the Gaunt Summoner and the Blue Scrubs (and Hosts Duplicitous is priced out now).

KO cannot do it any more.

Stormcast probably aren't using their mega Battalions any more. Skyborne Slayers is a possible one drop.

Darkling Covens maybe - if no allies.

Freeguild maybe.

Ironjawz maybe.

 

[DantePQ]

I played few games with my initial Dreadwood list (Alarielle, Wych with Acorn and Verdant Blessing, 30 dryads, 20 Spites, 6 Hunters) it works pretty well so far I've played against SCE, Seraphon, Ironjaws and Death. Won all games I understand reason behind Dryads but it all games they underperformed, they are suspect do Battleshock I'm think about either 

- drop them and take Drycha 

- drop them and take extra 10 Spites (2x10 and 2x5 units) and extra wych. 

but I can see a reason in keeping them in certain scenarios as 5 Spites are very unreliable at taking and defending objectives.