AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion

[Lucentia]

Saurus Guard (The halberd wielding, bodyguard unit) are still using the old kit in the new Seraphon battletome, Saurus Warriors are the ones that got updated.  Though, that said, I wouldn't be surprised if the Saurus Guard got updated via a warcry squad or update sprue for the saurus kit at some point.

The basic warcry ghouls are quite similar in design to the current ones, which suggests to me that they're not intending to replace them, but on the other hand that does mean that someone has been working on making modernised ghouls in some capacity, so, yeah, as you say, maybe more of a 50/50 than I'm giving credit to.

[Warboss Gorbolg]

Guess I’m getting old as those guys will always be temple guard in my brain.  My bias is also probably getting in the way as I could see myself collecting FEC with new basic ghouls with more dynamic posing and a smattering of gear, but I’m not willing to take the plunge with their core ghoul unit showing its age and ranked up roots. Too much potential character could be added to a new unit based on AOS lore.

[Souleater]

I really like the new sculpts in the upcoming Warcry box. They look like an improvement on the models from the Underworlds warband. I’m perhaps being overly optimistic but I’m hoping that means they have been iterating the design ahead of a range refresh. 

I’m on the fence about grabbing a couple of SC FEC boxes now while I can get them for ~£45 or so if they’re going to do some fantastic new ZD/TG kit.

[bonzai]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/11/unleash-some-very-disturbing-hounds-with-the-royal-beastflayers-in-warcry-nightmare-quest/

So the leader is an Abhorrent, which will be interesting. The gorilla things are actually mutated ghouls. Hopefully their AoS rules will be good.

[bonzai]

So I saw the rules for our herald. A little underwhelming, but not terrible. My imagination was running rampant as to what his rules were, so the actual thing was probably never going to measure up. I just wished that he did a little more, or was a hair more survivable. He hits hard, but can't take it. His ability is pretty short ranged, and is best against heroes/casters. But most of them have a high bravery and the 2d6 roll will be a minor hinderance. You will almost never get the strikes first option. Since he is so squishy, he is only going to get to use this once more than likely. Still, doing this on something like Nagash could be annoying. But who uses him any more?

The optics of the ability are hilarious. He and his pack of ghouls charge in, get nose to nose with their enemy, and then this dude yells "WAIT!!! Protocol demands that I offer you a gift first as a sign of respect. What!?! You decline? How insulting! Get em' boys". 

The regiment gives 6+ ward and run and charge. Kind of pointless really, as they will have none of the other tools that make FEC work.

[Lucentia]

I think it's probably best to use his ability to deny command abilities, rather than focus on the anti casting/chanting effect which, as you say, is unlikely to trigger often vs a high bravery hero.

But pinging a lower bravery unit, particularly an anvil or swingy hammer that wants to be using AoD/AoA could be quite punishing.  The real issue in my view is the 1" range, as he'll likely be killed in the ensuing combat so it'll be tough to infect multiple units like you'd ideally like to.

I suppose if the new book has avenues for significant and effective bravery debuffs he might be more appealing.

[bonzai]

3 hours ago, Lucentia said:

I think it's probably best to use his ability to deny command abilities, rather than focus on the anti casting/chanting effect which, as you say, is unlikely to trigger often vs a high bravery hero.

But pinging a lower bravery unit, particularly an anvil or swingy hammer that wants to be using AoD/AoA could be quite punishing.  The real issue in my view is the 1" range, as he'll likely be killed in the ensuing combat so it'll be tough to infect multiple units like you'd ideally like to.

I suppose if the new book has avenues for significant and effective bravery debuffs he might be more appealing.

I ask myself "When would I take him over a Courtier that replenishes units, or an abhorrant that can currently replenish and summon"? I am still kind of scratching my head on that. As you said, 5 up save and 5 wounds... he is squishy and most likely will only get off one time. Probably needs to run with ghouls or the new warcry band, so that something else can be in base to base while he swings over them with 2 inch reach. It will be interesting to see him in actual application. 

[bonzai]

So... I just learned that we have a rules update in Dawnbringer as well. The changes sound interesting. Knights get 2 inch reach, flayers are shooting now, everything gets rend. 

On the down side, usually these updates are there for books that are going to be a while before they are updated in the next edition. As the only 2nd edition book left, it is kind of troubling. I was fully expecting us to have a book in winter.

[Lucentia]

Unless my info is out of date it's basically guaranteed that the FEC book is coming in winter?  The next battletome on the road map after cities is a winter release, and unless it's a curveball with an entirely new faction, then it has to be FEC.  Though, that said, I'm expecting for it to drop early next year, rather than late this year, as they don't tend to do big releases in December for the most part.

[bonzai]

6 hours ago, Lucentia said:

Unless my info is out of date it's basically guaranteed that the FEC book is coming in winter?  The next battletome on the road map after cities is a winter release, and unless it's a curveball with an entirely new faction, then it has to be FEC.  Though, that said, I'm expecting for it to drop early next year, rather than late this year, as they don't tend to do big releases in December for the most part.

Lol, they could always spin out a Deathrattle battletome.

[bonzai]

Found some images online. I'm not mad the changes. 

[Fellman]

strange different damage on the shooting attacks

[Scythian]

It will be interesting to see if those leaked sprues are new ghouls or some form of grave guard like unit for 5he ghouls.

[Sception]

I expect they're just new ghouls flat out, replacing the existing models.  They're not quite different enough imo to be a different unit that exist alongside the current ghouls.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Sception

[bonzai]

On 10/11/2023 at 8:08 AM, Sception said:

I expect they're just new ghouls flat out, replacing the existing models.  They're not quite different enough imo to be a different unit that exist alongside the current ghouls.

Kind of crappy for GW to put the Harbinger box with the old ghouls if it is a replacement sprue. I think our sculpts, excluding the Varghulf, are fine. I am hoping they have focused on new units instead.

[Sception]

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/06/hail-to-the-noble-seneschal-who-makes-safe-the-borders-of-his-masters-kingdom/

Pretty impressive. As usual for FEC models, I wish the delusions were worked into it more, though I'm not sure how. Maybe instead of a snarling monster face they could put some weird solemn & dignified or lofty & sneering expression on it? But really that's a minor complaint as this guy looks fantastic.

 

Also looks like something that would be perfectly represented by the upcoming plastic bret hero on pegasus model for old world if you were doing a 'FEC-as-they-see-themselves' concept army.

[zombiepiratexxx]

It's beautiful! FEC deserve a range refresh to finally break out of their old Vampire Counts days fully. 

[Sception]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/13/court-is-in-session-all-rise-for-the-honourable-grand-justice-gormayne/

What a goofy model & character.  I kind of love him.

[CDM]

This may be one of my favourite ever models. I thought alot about how they would do FEC justice but I never imagined a ghoul with entrails parading around as a judge In a powdered wig!  

I must say this is why GW are the best and even they surpass my wildest expectations at times.

[zombiepiratexxx]

They absolutely killed it with this model. I don't need more AoS models, but my wallet is definitely feeling impending doom. 

[bonzai]

Ushoran looks amazing! I am also really excited for the Cardinal. The potential to have a priest really opens up possibilities.

[Blairtiny]

So um….. I’m not wowed by the bay cav, super excited to have them in the army but not personally wowed by the models (I know I’m crazy)

I also have 18 mournfang sitting around from an old conversion…

so here’s an early moc of my bay cav idea, I’ll probably wait to use spare weapons from new cryptguard and heads hopefully. I’ll and dead bits like bones from crypt horrors etc

cnc welcome (including mentioning my insanity at not loving the new bats)

[bonzai]

9 hours ago, Blairtiny said:

So um….. I’m not wowed by the bay cav, super excited to have them in the army but not personally wowed by the models (I know I’m crazy)

I also have 18 mournfang sitting around from an old conversion…

so here’s an early moc of my bay cav idea, I’ll probably wait to use spare weapons from new cryptguard and heads hopefully. I’ll and dead bits like bones from crypt horrors etc

cnc welcome (including mentioning my insanity at not loving the new bats)

Your not alone. I think the faces on the bats look derpy. Almost like an older sculpt.

[bonzai]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/24/weave-a-web-of-chivalrous-delusion-in-battletome-flesh-eater-courts/

Big changes. Whether I like them or not will depend on the stats of the units, as Noble Deeds encourages our heroes to get into combat. Great for our Varghulf, but probably not so much for the Cardinal. On the plus side it confirms that we get a priest.

Feeding Frenzy is weaker as an individual unit, but can potentially impact multiple units at once. The timing becomes important as most likely you will need to have your Heroes fight first to top off their Noble Deeds, and trigger feeding frenzy.

Abhorrents have been changed to summon in destroyed units, so we no longer start with more points on the board.

At a glance I am not a huge fan of the Delusions, as crusading army seems to be the obvious choice. Especially with the Noble Deeds mechanic encouraging aggressive play.

 

[Sception]

1 hour ago, bonzai said:

At a glance I am not a huge fan of the Delusions, as crusading army seems to be the obvious choice. Especially with the Noble Deeds mechanic encouraging aggressive play.

I agree at first look, but there's still a lot we haven't seen.  Still 3 other delusions, plus it's possible some of the unit rules might be re-worked to encourage a more defensive play style that could fit with defend the realms.  Plus there may be extra subfaction bonuses for particular delusions, etc.

It's a long shot, but I'm hoping for some sort of option to change delusions mid game - like maybe a command trait to change delusions once per game, or maybe as a command ability on one of the heroes, which would allow you to start with a more generic aggressive delusion but transition to something more techy & situational mid game if the right opportunity presents itself.