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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

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I have a tournament next week. The last list I used was a bit meaty in bodies but didn't have enough punch. The Maw Krusha should take care of that:

Allegiance: Ironjawz - Mortal Realm: Ghur - Warclan: Ironjawz

LEADERS Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460) - General - Command Trait : Brutish Cunning
Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist - Artefact : Metalrippa's Klaw - Mount Trait : Weird 'Un
Orruk Megaboss (150) - Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm
Orruk Warchanter (110) - Warbeat : Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110) - Warbeat : Fixin' Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110) - Lore of the Weird : Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Madcap Shaman (80) - Allies

UNITS
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160) - Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160) - Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140) - Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

BATTALIONS Ironfist (160)

TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 129 LEADERS: 6/6 BATTLELINES: 5 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 80/400

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47 minutes ago, Gorks Pokin' Finger said:

I have a tournament next week. The last list I used was a bit meaty in bodies but didn't have enough punch. The Maw Krusha should take care of that:

Allegiance: Ironjawz - Mortal Realm: Ghur - Warclan: Ironjawz

LEADERS Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460) - General - Command Trait : Brutish Cunning
Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist - Artefact : Metalrippa's Klaw - Mount Trait : Weird 'Un
Orruk Megaboss (150) - Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm
Orruk Warchanter (110) - Warbeat : Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110) - Warbeat : Fixin' Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110) - Lore of the Weird : Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Madcap Shaman (80) - Allies

UNITS
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160) - Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160) - Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140) - Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

BATTALIONS Ironfist (160)

TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 129 LEADERS: 6/6 BATTLELINES: 5 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 80/400

Whats with the madcap shaman?

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@Skumbaagh I'm 10 points over for a Fungoid-Cave Shaman. Plus, need another caster since realm spells will be involved and I don't have any endless spells on hand. That Night Shroud spell is also decent against any shooting that might threaten my MBMK

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3 hours ago, TALegion said:

Rules question about Mighty Destroyers charging and fighting later in the turn.

The core rules say that a unit is eligible to fight+pile in if it is within 3" of an enemy unit or if it made a charge move in the same turn. So, if we make a charge with MD in the hero phase, we've fulfilled that second requirement, right? So, a unit could hypothetically be MD'd to charge into an enemy unit in the hero phase, then retreat (and run, hypothetically) in the following movement phase (moving you within 3-4 inches of another enemy unit), and then pile in 3" and fight with that unit later in the turn. Is this correct?

I can't see a reason why this wouldn't be the case. If this works, I'm just imagining the huge threat range that this gives a cabbage. If you spend 2 CP (one to MD the MK, one to run 6), you can charge the MK up to a screen and then retreat 18" across the screen and into their backline, still fighting at the end of the turn.

Sorry if this is already known - I just came across it for the first time

This is interestering . Did anyone else look into this? FAQs and such? I havent had the time yet.

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13 minutes ago, Gorks Pokin' Finger said:

@Skumbaagh I'm 10 points over for a Fungoid-Cave Shaman. Plus, need another caster since realm spells will be involved and I don't have any endless spells on hand. That Night Shroud spell is also decent against any shooting that might threaten my MBMK

Fair. I'd rather change the footboss for a unit of 10 brutes which would also allow me a fungoid instead of the madcap. 

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@Skumbaagh huh didn't think of that. 10 Brutes is pretty beefy as well. I could then give my Weirdnob the +1 to cast item too to help him out. 

Would you suggest giving the MBMK the Gryph-Feather Charm (+1M, -1 to hit him), or Metalrippa's Klaws (all his attacks are -3)?

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4 minutes ago, Gorks Pokin' Finger said:

@Skumbaagh huh didn't think of that. 10 Brutes is pretty beefy as well. I could then give my Weirdnob the +1 to cast item too to help him out. 

Would you suggest giving the MBMK the Gryph-Feather Charm (+1M, -1 to hit him), or Metalrippa's Klaws (all his attacks are -3)?

I rather use ethereal. He is punchy as he is and needs to stay alive, by giving him a survivability artefact he wont go down on his damage table as fast. Ethereal is a real nightmare for your opponent.

But I dont ever play him anymore, I am all into ardboys, warchanters and a warboss in a big waaagh! Sometime I will paint my third MBMK and bring them all to a friendly tournament thou. 

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3 hours ago, Skumbaagh said:

This is interestering . Did anyone else look into this? FAQs and such? I havent had the time yet.

Nothing currently in the FAQ or Errata that stops you doing it. 

Definitely usable. 

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8 hours ago, Skumbaagh said:

This is interestering . Did anyone else look into this? FAQs and such? I havent had the time yet.

4 hours ago, #SteveJames said:

Nothing currently in the FAQ or Errata that stops you doing it. 

Definitely usable. 

I'm gonna clear it with my tournament organizer first, but I'm hoping to use this tomorrow. I've got a doubles tournament and I want to use a a beefy maw krusha. The cabbage can spend 2 CP to frog leap a full charge + 18" over my opponents' screens. I could snipe heroes, shooting units, backline objectives, even. It could easily end up being game-changing in some circumstances.

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26 minutes ago, TALegion said:

I'm gonna clear it with my tournament organizer first, but I'm hoping to use this tomorrow

This is the Key, clearly explain how it works to To and fingers crossed get it OK'd and good luck Waguhhhhh! 

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Posted (edited)

Don't know why you would need to clear it. This is how it works. As long as you charged you can pile in. Nothing stops you from running away getting just outside of 3" and piling in later in the combat phase. It works best on the MBMK cus he can fly and has better movement. You can even set yourself up to attack a totally different unit then the one you charged. Or to take an Objective. It also can have an effect that your opponent can't attack you till you pile in. The trick is to set yourself up the get the charge off in the hero phase. Not always easy.

Edited by PC Veteran

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The core rules specifically mention a retreated unit cant shoot or charge - No mention of fight or pile in. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, PC Veteran said:

Don't know why you would need to clear it. This is how it works. As long as you charged you can pile in. Nothing stops you from running away getting just outside of 3" and piling in later in the combat phase. It works best on the MBMK cus he can fly and has better movement. You can even set yourself up to attack a totally different unit then the one you charged. Or to take an Objective. It also can have an effect that your opponent can't attack you till you pile in. The trick is to set yourself up the get the charge off in the hero phase. Not always easy.

4 hours ago, Kasper said:

The core rules specifically mention a retreated unit cant shoot or charge - No mention of fight or pile in. 

All the above is true.

I'm mostly thinking of how this applies to maw krushas, though I suppose GGs could make use of it, too. If people don't plan for this, a buffed up maw krusha can do so much by hopping over a frontline screen. or even hopping a sizable distance across the map. It's like a different version of the 24" of movement far MD.

EDIT:
i'll report back tomorrow with results from the tournament. It's doubles, 1k for each player. As of right now, my partner is FEC, but that may change. My list is:

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 90 / 200
Wounds: 60

- Ironclad + Ignax to make the tankiest variant of maw krusha, minus loud 'un or weird 'un. Weird un is somewhat redundant with ignax, and mean un should provide more value over several turns than loud un would provide in a single turn.
- Ardboyz are to compete on objectives
- Gore-gruntas are for supporting the maw krusha
- Fixin' Beat > Get 'Em because a handful of wounds can mean another turn of life on the big boy
- I think the fungoid is worth it if only for the mystic shield and potential CP. With so much relying on the cabbage, the rerolling 1s to save helps a lot - especially with a 2+. Also, I'll want to use as many CP on the maw krusha as possible. More CP = more damage

The charge-retreat slingshot could provide a lot of value, so I'll try to look for opportunities.

Edited by TALegion
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If you want a good 1k list, I have been doing a lot of research and have come up with a very good one:

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Choppas

Leaders
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Checked Out
- Artefact: Megaskull Staff
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 77

Da choppas without a MB is great, and is also great for a low point list because of it. The buffed violent furry with a warchanter feels a little broken to me, and with the Ironfist buff (basically brutish cunning) to go with it, the list is very powerful. One thing you could do is merge 2 of the 5 ardboys into one so that you can have 2x10 ardboys. (which will help Warchanter)

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Struggling against a x3 terrorgheist ghristlegore. Here's what I own. I haven't added any models for a long time. Maybe it's time to holster the Boyz?

MBoMK, Footboss, War chanter, Weirdnob, Wurrgog, Rogue Idol

GG x6, Brutes x10, Arboys x10

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Posted (edited)

Report from the doubles tournament I just did. Forgive me if I don't know a lot of terminology/unit names - a lot of armies are fairly new to me. My list was the same as my last comment's, and my ally's army was Gristlegore FEC:

Terrorgheist
Archregent
Ghouls
3x crypt flayers
chalice spell
 

Game 1: Duality of Death  vs. Kharadon & Gloomspite

Gloomspite were 1 large unit of stabbaz, a small stabbaz unit, two wizards, scuttletide, and a 10-man unit of fanatics. They shielded for some mass of kharadon made of arkonauts, a chemist, and some balloon guys. They were split about 60:40 across their deployment zones, putting the majority of their kharadron and the small stabbaz unit on their left side (60) and the rest of the gloomspite army on the right (40). I deployed all of my army one side (the 60 side), and my ally deployed fully in the other one. They finished deploying first and gave us the first turn.

Turn 1, we moved everything up and attempted turn 1 charges with our big guys into their bigger force. I made the charge, my ally didn't. I took 11 wounds from fanatics, but I wiped them and the stabbaz in one go. In their turn, they moved up their right side and shot with the left, leaving the cabbage at 2 and the terrogheist at whatever - he healed it all up. They failed to take the objectives back from us, so we hold them and the turn ends 2-0, us.

We won the roll and went 1st on turn 2. We continue to fight the bulk of the kharadron with our big guys and hold still with the rest of our armies. They move up the bulk of the gloomspite army, taking my ally's objective. At the end of the shooting and fighting they take the maw krusha down, but the terrorgheist is still alive while they're at fewer than 20 model of mostly arkonauts. The turn ends 5-1, us.

Turn 3+, my ally and I pretty much have the game. My side of the board is virtually clear of all enemies, I'm sitting on the objective uncontested, we're ahead in points, and we have my whole army + a terrorgheist that we can send at the rest of their army. The opponents played everything out well, but it was a difficult situation to win past that point. We just attritioned them to death.

 

Game 2: Shifting Objectives vs. Hallowheart CoS & Skaven

Skaven were a unit of 6 stormfiends, 60 clanrats, and a warlock. CoS was 6 scourgerunner chariots, soulscream bridge, 3 gyrocopter things, and 3 various wizards. Their gameplan is using the soulscream bridge to move the stormvermin up the center of the map, screen them with clanrats, and murder everything with a huge amount of shooting and magical damage output. The scourgrunners were used to move up the board for objectives (and shoot). This team eventually ended up winning the tournament, I believe

My ally and I weren't sure how to handle this and we ended up taking the top of turn 1. I charged into the clanrat screen and my ally charged some scourgerunners. I cleared the screen, and my ally managed to remove one model. We take the side of objectives, failing the run roles we needed for the center objective - rookie mistake on our part. On their turn, they gave the maw krusha nearly every single shot and mortal wound they could muster. Gyrocopters moved up and took the middle, the bridge came out and brought the stormfiends, and scourgerunner scooted up. The warlock failed his MMMWP cast, so the maw krusha actually survived the full shooting with about 6 wounds remaining. End of turn one, it's 3-2, them.

They win the roll and double turn us. Tbh, it was pretty much over from there. The maw krusha was removed on turn 2 and the terrorgheist wasn't far behind. We were able to take objectives on our turns, but we were completely tabled by turn 4. Not an exciting game to recall.

In hindsight, we likely should have given them the top of turn 1. They had a very strong army and were very experienced players, so our best chance might have been just praying for the double turn after letting them move towards us.

 

Game 3: Focal points vs. Ironjawz & Nighthaunt.

The Ironjawz were 2 WCs, a hand of gork + bash 'em ladz shaman (general), a 6-man GG unit, and a 10-man brute unit. Nighthaunt were 2x10  chainrasps, 2 mournguls, some small caster hero, geminids, and cogs. Pretty clear idea of cogs + teleport into a charge, but it ultimately never succeeded.

We deployed first and gave them the top of turn one. We deployed with a screen of ardboyz and ghouls, filling the backline with heroes to prevent hand of gork. They deployed everything behind a screen of chainrasps. The Ironjawz were on the very back line, clearly setting up for teleports. Their army scooted up, barely taking the middle objective and giving us the turn. We did the same, but not moving up enough in the center to take the middle that turn. 4-2, them.

We won the turn roll, giving them the top again. They moved the middle chainrasps up, with the mournghuls following not far behind. No teleports this turn, either. We take our turn and clear the chainrasps with gore-gruntas and his crypt horrors. Still holding back the rest of the army to prevent backline teleports. 8-6, them.

They took the top of turn 3, sending the mournguls and geminids onto the middle objective to fight the 2 units we had there. In their turn, they also moved up the other chainrasp squad enough to capture my ally's objective. Additionally, the gore-gruntas were teleported in front of my ardboy squad. They failed their charge, though, leaving them wide open in the middle of the board for the maw krusha. In our turn, the maw krusha moved up to the gore-gruntas and the terrorgheist moved up to the mournguls. I killed all gore-gruntas in one go and the terrorgeist killed a mourngul. We recapped my ally's objective and the middle. 14-10, them.

They took the top of turn 4. With few nighthaunt left and only the brutes + heroes on the IJ side, our opponents positioned to take and hold objectives from the oncoming maw krusha + terrorgeist. Fortunately for us, their hand of gork failed again, leaving the brutes far back in their territory. Now, the brutes moved up so that they could charge the middle next turn. On our turn, I fly the maw krusha up 24" to take their objective and my ally cleared out the last mourngul in the middle. By this point, the ardboyz were now in the middle as well. We held 4 objectives, netting us 6 points. 16-16, tie.

They won the role and took the top of the turn. The brutes were the only substantial unit left, and they moved up to be within charge range of the terrorgeist. Heroes also ran towards the maw krusha to just take the objective back with body count. The brutes made the charge, throwing 7/10 on the terrorgeist and 3/10 on the ardboyz. The terrorgeist was just barely brought down, but was able to attack back before death with the gristlegore command ability. That + the WC-buffed ardboyz were able to clear 6-7 brutes, having the rest die to morale.  Had they taken the objective successfully, the could've worked as a tie, but it just narrowly failed. We shook hands after that.

This was definitely an interesting game. I have to recognize their bad luck on consistently failing cogs and hand of gork so regularly. After the game, my opponent also alerted me to the fact that we likely would not have won had the gore-gruntas made their charge - I simply would not have had the model count to take the middle from the brutes on the final turn. This is likely true, so I'll chalk the win largely up to luck.

Edited by TALegion

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On 1/3/2020 at 10:14 AM, PC Veteran said:

Don't know why you would need to clear it. This is how it works. As long as you charged you can pile in. Nothing stops you from running away getting just outside of 3" and piling in later in the combat phase. It works best on the MBMK cus he can fly and has better movement. You can even set yourself up to attack a totally different unit then the one you charged. Or to take an Objective. It also can have an effect that your opponent can't attack you till you pile in. The trick is to set yourself up the get the charge off in the hero phase. Not always easy.

Just out of curiosity I spoke with a friend who TOs a lot of events in our area and while he did  call it movement shenanigans he didn’t/couldn’t find anything in Core rules or FAQ’s that interrupts the logic. The core wording being during piling in. RAW states if within 3” of a model OR completed a charge move in the turn. So really holds onto the OR part of the rule since you did complete a charge in the turn. Retreating just says end outside of 3” so land 3.1 inches out and yea pile in to .1 inch

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32 minutes ago, Tezia99 said:

Just out of curiosity I spoke with a friend who TOs a lot of events in our area and while he did  call it movement shenanigans he didn’t/couldn’t find anything in Core rules or FAQ’s that interrupts the logic. The core wording being during piling in. RAW states if within 3” of a model OR completed a charge move in the turn. So really holds onto the OR part of the rule since you did complete a charge in the turn. Retreating just says end outside of 3” so land 3.1 inches out and yea pile in to .1 inch

The most broken part is that it is effectively a doppelgangers cloak when you pull it off. Land outside of 3” of a Keeper of Secrets or whatever - He isnt allowed to pile in and attack unless within 3”, so you will always strike first.

As I see it, it isnt too easy to pull off and wont happen that often. Warchanter charge buff is specifically in your charge phase. It means you likely have to wipe a unit in your opponents combat phase which frees up your unit for your hero phase, meanwhile being rather close to another unit.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kasper said:

The most broken part is that it is effectively a doppelgangers cloak when you pull it off. Land outside of 3” of a Keeper of Secrets or whatever - He isnt allowed to pile in and attack unless within 3”, so you will always strike first.

As I see it, it isnt too easy to pull off and wont happen that often. Warchanter charge buff is specifically in your charge phase. It means you likely have to wipe a unit in your opponents combat phase which frees up your unit for your hero phase, meanwhile being rather close to another unit.

Exactly, it does require some circumstances for it to actually work. Either your opponent had to fail a charge locking you into being within 12” on their turn and then go next or you’d have to fail, get a double, or they’d have to then go move closer and still fail. So I’d say remembering to do this if you had bad luck on the bottom of a turn and capitalize if you got the double is best option.  Otherwise you’re just penalizing yourself trying to intentionally set this up. What happens if you’re like, “yea I’m not gonna attempt that charge and hope I get the double” just to not get the double and be back to square one

Edited by Tezia99

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That's the thing, it looks great on paper but transferring on to the table is difficult. 

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I played a tournament practice game yesterday and funnily enough got to use this trick and it was huge. Nagash was sitting pretty behind a couple of screens but a single dire wolf was in combat 9" away from one krusha. I explained exactly what I was going to do and one 10" charge later my krusha had hopped the whole army ready to punch nagash in the face. Priority turn 3 to me and the game was over.

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1 hour ago, Warmill said:

I played a tournament practice game yesterday and funnily enough got to use this trick and it was huge. Nagash was sitting pretty behind a couple of screens but a single dire wolf was in combat 9" away from one krusha. I explained exactly what I was going to do and one 10" charge later my krusha had hopped the whole army ready to punch nagash in the face. Priority turn 3 to me and the game was over.

I guess Nagash wasn't souped up with buffs? A Maw Krusha being able to bring him down in one turn seems crazy to me. :D I always saw him as kind of immortal. 

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12 hours ago, Kasper said:

I guess Nagash wasn't souped up with buffs? A Maw Krusha being able to bring him down in one turn seems crazy to me. :D I always saw him as kind of immortal. 

depend on buff on both Nagash and krusha. You need at least a +1 to hit, warchanter buff and mean'un to be around 50/50 of killing and unbuffed Nagash outright. I'm not sure what are the buff available to Nagash nowday (i know before he had access to ignore rend via a spell, and he can get rr save with Cog. also had the option for a -1 to wound via a necromancer artefact), but I guess the guy wasn't expecting him in combat if he was well screened.

 

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2 hours ago, broche said:

depend on buff on both Nagash and krusha. You need at least a +1 to hit, warchanter buff and mean'un to be around 50/50 of killing and unbuffed Nagash outright. I'm not sure what are the buff available to Nagash nowday (i know before he had access to ignore rend via a spell, and he can get rr save with Cog. also had the option for a -1 to wound via a necromancer artefact), but I guess the guy wasn't expecting him in combat if he was well screened.

 

Pretty much, he was screened but not against this stupidity! 🤣 I run big waaagh and got the double, so i was 2+2+ with mean un and chanter buff, charged in to deal 11 wounds in the combat phase then in my double hero phase he finished the job with brutish cunning.

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7 hours ago, Warmill said:

Pretty much, he was screened but not against this stupidity! 🤣 I run big waaagh and got the double, so i was 2+2+ with mean un and chanter buff, charged in to deal 11 wounds in the combat phase then in my double hero phase he finished the job with brutish cunning.

Ahh that makes more sense - I thought it was one round of chopping 😉

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