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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

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So I went 3-2 at bloodshed in the shores running 2 cabbages. Basically the polar opposite to Leo who ran no cabbages. 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112

So I'll start with mistakes I made since those are really important. 1) I forgot my -1 hit in the first round every game. 2) I forgot to use the fixin beat on my Warchanter every game. So you can straight up see two massive errors which possibly lost me both the games I lost and made the others harder than  they should have been. Observations on the new book.

1) It's a massive damage nerf, it's maybe the same over 5 turns but it's crazy just how much damage we lost.

2) I found myself way more command point starved.

3) Still ridiculously mobile.

4) The Warchanter buff is everything, it's like having 2/3 WAAAGH! Running on the unit.

Games

Game 1/2 were against Sylvaneth and deepkin. I've put them together because they are broadly the same.

My 2 units of ardboys and unit of brutes held objectives and stopped then being teleported onto.

Gave up turn 1. My cabbages and goregruntas hurled themselves across the board very quickly taking my opponents objectives, pasting their screens and forcing them back into a small area. The opponent then spent turns 1-4 killing them, broke out and lost on objectives.

Game 3 I faced FEC on places of arcane power. He had a GKoZD, GKoTG and his general was a GKoTG with doppelganger. Add in the archregent and I knew I couldn't fight him for objectives.

Took turn 1 and tried an alphastrike. Killed the archregent, 2 of his 3 blocks of ghouls, triggered the doppleganger and then my general MK fluffed against the second terrogheist doing 4 wounds TOTAL. I think I made a few small errors which had big ramifications in not killing it. Had I killed it I would have been in an amazing position.

Sadly I lost my cabbage and the GGs with it on his turn, lost priority, he failed to kill big G with his general who then proceeded to leave the second terrorgheist on 4 wounds (he had healed to full...).

On my turn 2 he has a full health GKoZD, GKoTG and has summoned 6 flayers+flayer hero. I have 5 Brutes, 8 Ardboys, 5 Ardboys, 3 ggs and my warchanter spread across the boars. He holds both outside objectives. I manage to kill TG which should have died turn 1 but can't do anything about his objectives. He gets turn 3 prio and the game is over.

Had I remembered my Ironsunz -1 to hit my general might have actually lived until turn 2 making it a massively different game.

Game 4 I played changehost. He chucked a bunch of spells across the board dropped my general to 3 wounds. Threw a pendulm through his own pinks and summoned a bunch of blues. He also summoned a purple Sun from his changeling which rolled the 6 against my Warchanter killing it with 10 MW...

In his shooting phase my general got peppered with pink horror shots which killed him. Again had I remembered the -1 to hit he might have lived which would have been enormous.

Gave him a good fight and would probably have won off turn 2 or 3 priority. Could have soaked any 3 of losing general, Warchanter and both early prios but not all 4.

Game 5 was against legion of grief with 120 chainrasps. Had my unit of 5 ardboys sit on the gravesite in my territory, unit of brutes sit on my objective. Took turn 1, MD then ran big G 30" to get on the second gravesite outside his territory, had a unit of pigs grab one objective and the second unit/general went into his frontline.

The next 3 turns were me grinding through his army as I pushed it back into a corner before he finally killed me at which point he was to far behind to catchup and I won on objectives.

Opinions

The list is mindnumbingly easy to play. There are several subtle aspects but it's largely "throw stuff at your opponent and tell them to deal with it". The Brutes were a massive waste of points, I'd have much rather had 5 ardboys and an extra CP.

Where next

The list goes into a Gorefist unless I do some changes with the cabbages. Gorefist list is same Big G, Cabbage, 2 WC and 6+3+3 GGs in a Gorefist, basically does the same thing as I'm doing atm but stops pretending otherwise.  

The other options involve either 1) dropping Big G to a normal cabbage and losing the Ironfist in favour of bodies or 2) Only keeping Big G and dropping the second in favour of bodies...notice a theme?

The double krusha would probably start with this.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)

Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 132

It runs on a similar principle to my old weirdcabbage list. Pair up the cabbages to pressure the opponent. 2 blocks of 5 ardboys as backline defence, 2 units of 3 ggs as outriders threatening or supporting cabbages and 20 ardboys centering the whole mess.

With just big G, which I will probably try at blood and Glory, is as large step away and uses Da Choppas instead of Ironsunz, it would also work as Big Waaagh! With Big G as the general...decisions.0

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Choppas
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- General
- Trait: Checked Out
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Undecided
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Jagged Gore-hackas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134

Warchanter general to get Checked Out without needing to take the Artefact. Runs Big G and the 6 GGs as a highly mobile threat both receiving the +1 damage turn 1.

Later on I can spend a CP to buff all 3 other units with 1 Warchanter. Gives me 3 big infantry blocks which are now terrifying.

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Is there any consensus how 'ardfist works?  At the event my opponents told me I could use the command ability as many times as I wanted when a unit dies, so that a unit of five dying could spawn a hundred additional boys if you roll hot.  I chose not to do this because it seems dumb.

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9 minutes ago, tolstedt said:

Is there any consensus how 'ardfist works?  At the event my opponents told me I could use the command ability as many times as I wanted when a unit dies, so that a unit of five dying could spawn a hundred additional boys if you roll hot.  I chose not to do this because it seems dumb.

Yes, RAW. Until FAQed. 

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Your opponent's view is the consensus.

Command Abilities are spammable unless stated otherwise.

It has a natural ceiling in that it costs  effectively 2 CPs per unit rezzed; it costs you 120 points for the Batallion; those units cannot be in another Batallion (so no Ironfist, which is our only 5-0 list so far); anybody who can snipe your Warchanter shuts it down at the source.  So it comes with costs and limitations.

But yes, it can be strong if you roll hot.  If you don't, you've basically given away Mighty Destroyers, which is a huge opportunity cost.

Edited by PlasticCraic

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Warclan: Ironsunz

Leaders

Wierdnob Shaman (110)

-General

-Dead Kunnin'

-Great Green Visions

-Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

Gordrakk (540)

-Mean Un'

Warchanter (110)

-Fixin' Beat

Warchanter (110)

-Get 'Em Beat
Units:

10 Orruk Ardboys (180)

2x5 Orruk Ardboys (180)

2x3 Gore-Gruntas (320)

5 Orruk Brutes (140)

-Dual Choppas

Endless Spells:

Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (30)

Battalions:

Ironfist (160)

Ardfist (120)

Points: 2000/2000

Wounds: 104

 

Would this be a good list? It's only based off what's cheap to buy as it's basically 2 SC boxes, Brutes, Gordrakk, and a Weirdnob. Also does Gordrakk nerd to be your general to use his Command Ability? (I feel like I've asked this before, sorry if so)

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If one builds the. 

1 minute ago, Incredebilis said:

Warclan: Ironsunz

Leaders

Wierdnob Shaman (110)

-General

-Dead Kunnin'

-Great Green Visions

-Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

Gordrakk (540)

-Mean Un'

Warchanter (110)

-Fixin' Beat

Warchanter (110)

-Get 'Em Beat
Units:

10 Orruk Ardboys (180)

2x5 Orruk Ardboys (180)

2x3 Gore-Gruntas (320)

5 Orruk Brutes (140)

-Dual Choppas

Endless Spells:

Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (30)

Battalions:

Ironfist (160)

Ardfist (120)

Points: 2000/2000

Wounds: 104

 

Would this be a good list? It's only based off what's cheap to buy as it's basically 2 SC boxes, Brutes, Gordrakk, and a Weirdnob. Also does Gordrakk nerd to be your general to use his Command Ability? (I feel like I've asked this before, sorry if so)

You need the ardboys to be 3 units of 10 in the ardfist. (Battleline in units of ten.)

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1 hour ago, Jabbuk said:

Quick question gents,

Let's say we're doing a 2v2 and I'm fielding some 720 pts and I only have a warchanter as a general. Can my Ironjawz be from the Ironsunz clan and benefit from the -1to hit first turn? Since I can't take anything but a realm artefact anyway, I figured this might be powerful still.

Could I get a feedback on this? My game is tomorrow :)

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8 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Could I get a feedback on this? My game is tomorrow :)

Yes, the -1 to hit is a warclan ability and not tied to a specific hero like the artefact and command trait. You can also use the command ability "alright, get `em!" 

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42 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Your opponent's view is the consensus.

Command Abilities are spammable unless stated otherwise.

It has a natural ceiling in that it costs  effectively 2 CPs per unit rezzed; it costs you 120 points for the Batallion; those units cannot be in another Batallion (so no Ironfist, which is our only 5-0 list so far); anybody who can snipe your Warchanter shuts it down at the source.  So it comes with costs and limitations.

But yes, it can be strong if you roll hot.  If you don't, you've basically given away Mighty Destroyers, which is a huge opportunity cost.

I haven't tried the ardfist yet but as of calculations one could summon on average 50 ardboys T1. With -1 to hit in the first round, look out sir, cover and line of sight breakers its not very hard to protect the warchanter the first round. In round two one could easily crowd the quadrant were the warchanter is with new boys, if one doesn't summon them in the back of the opponents side.

The ardfist is pure filth as of now if played optimized and according to RAW. I just can't see the ironfist being the better option. That said, most people wouldn't want to win because of a broken mechanic. Also, 70 ardboys is enough for me, not gonns paint more of those for a while. 

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1 hour ago, Skumbaagh said:

You need the ardboys to be 3 units of 10 in the ardfist. (Battleline in units of ten.)

He has three other units that are battleline.

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1 hour ago, PlasticCraic said:

Your opponent's view is the consensus.

Command Abilities are spammable unless stated otherwise.

It has a natural ceiling in that it costs  effectively 2 CPs per unit rezzed; it costs you 120 points for the Batallion; those units cannot be in another Batallion (so no Ironfist, which is our only 5-0 list so far); anybody who can snipe your Warchanter shuts it down at the source.  So it comes with costs and limitations.

But yes, it can be strong if you roll hot.  If you don't, you've basically given away Mighty Destroyers, which is a huge opportunity cost.

In my third game I attempted to summon a unit of ardboyz with four command points and failed all four, leaving myself with no command points.  And I had an aetherquartz which failed to generate a command point each time.

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56 minutes ago, Skumbaagh said:

I haven't tried the ardfist yet but as of calculations one could summon on average 50 ardboys T1. With -1 to hit in the first round, look out sir, cover and line of sight breakers its not very hard to protect the warchanter the first round. In round two one could easily crowd the quadrant were the warchanter is with new boys, if one doesn't summon them in the back of the opponents side.

With +3 to charge you wouldn't even care if the warchanter died with that many bodies on the board edges turn one.  I wouldn't even bother protecting him after that.  Just swamp the board with 100 wounds and a 4+ save.

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59 minutes ago, Skumbaagh said:

I haven't tried the ardfist yet but as of calculations one could summon on average 50 ardboys T1. With -1 to hit in the first round, look out sir, cover and line of sight breakers its not very hard to protect the warchanter the first round. In round two one could easily crowd the quadrant were the warchanter is with new boys, if one doesn't summon them in the back of the opponents side.

The ardfist is pure filth as of now if played optimized and according to RAW. I just can't see the ironfist being the better option. That said, most people wouldn't want to win because of a broken mechanic. Also, 70 ardboys is enough for me, not gonns paint more of those for a while. 

You want to run it as a Big Waaagh! army. 

 

1 hour ago, PlasticCraic said:

Your opponent's view is the consensus.

Command Abilities are spammable unless stated otherwise.

It has a natural ceiling in that it costs  effectively 2 CPs per unit rezzed; it costs you 120 points for the Batallion; those units cannot be in another Batallion (so no Ironfist, which is our only 5-0 list so far); anybody who can snipe your Warchanter shuts it down at the source.  So it comes with costs and limitations.

But yes, it can be strong if you roll hot.  If you don't, you've basically given away Mighty Destroyers, which is a huge opportunity cost.

Quote

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Dead Kunnin'
- Artefact: Great Green Visions
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Wurrgog Prophet (160)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ardfist (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1480 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 90
 

This is the Ardfist list. It's got 520 points spare, slightly more if you swap some of the Wurrgogs for Fungoids instead.

There's no issue putting bodies etc. on the board. I'd probably end up going with this.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Dead Kunnin'
- Artefact: Great Green Visions
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Wurrgog Prophet (160)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
- Chompas
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
- Chompas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ardfist (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 200

And yes it's utter ridiculous filth that should reliably put 40/50 Ardboys on the table turn 1 with another 20 per turn. That's assuming you don't randomly gain a ton more...It works out at about 2000 points over the course of the game.

I'd run it but I'm short 60 Savage Orruks and ~150 Ardboys to confidently play it. 

Edited by Malakree

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What I like with Ardfist, is it give you an extra option to spend command point. I don't think you need to activate it more than once or 2 to win a game. What I dislike, is that you need a shitload of Ardboys

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9 minutes ago, broche said:

What I like with Ardfist, is it give you an extra option to spend command point. I don't think you need to activate it more than once or 2 to win a game. What I dislike, is that you need a shitload of Ardboys

Yeah, I think that's the limiting factor moreso than any sense of shame at winning games with a broken summoning mechanic. 

There are a percentage of people who will shy away from that, but plenty more who won't.  Witness Nagash's long run with Grimghast Reapers, or the whole of Slaanesh, for evidence.

It's also dicey as @tolstedt can testify.  Miss a few 4+s (easily done) and your gameplan is shot. 

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2 hours ago, Skumbaagh said:

haven't tried the ardfist yet but as of calculations one could summon on average 50 ardboys T1.

Wait... What am I missing here? I thought you needed a unit of ardboys to die to try to summon one. How would it work to summon... 50? I don't get it :)

 

EDIT: Nevermind,I just saw the list posted above.

Edited by Jabbuk

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51 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Yeah, I think that's the limiting factor moreso than any sense of shame at winning games with a broken summoning mechanic. 

There are a percentage of people who will shy away from that, but plenty more who won't.  Witness Nagash's long run with Grimghast Reapers, or the whole of Slaanesh, for evidence.

It's also dicey as @tolstedt can testify.  Miss a few 4+s (easily done) and your gameplan is shot. 

I would totally run it at a major tournament just to try and force someone to commentate that ****** as it's streamed. "Wait is that a single ardboy? Where are the rest of them, ok now he's killing it....and there's 100 free Ardboys..."


EDIT: I literally only need the Ardboys aswell...

Edited by Malakree
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I really want to take one of those footboss lists as a Big Waagh army. Ironsunz is super awesome, yeah, but Big Waaagh bonuses are just hilarious. You can take nearly the same lists with only IJ units and it would still function and apply.

- You want a footboss w/ Brutish Cunning, letting you get more models and MD
- Ironfist is essential
- You want a Weirdnob Shaman w/ Hand of Gork. Plus, inBW,  you can give him +1/2 on the cast, letting HoG become more reliable when you need it
- 3 WCs are core units and they make up a solid WP battery

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- General
- Trait: Brutish Cunning
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
Ironfist (160)
Extra Command Point (50)

Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 151
 

Fill the last 60 with your endless spell of choice. You could also shrink the 10-man ardboy squad and get a Fungoid Cave Shaman. The 10-man is basically just a backup HoG target if everything else is in combat. I'd go for a balewind and give the boss Destroyer for hero hunting and lols.

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11 hours ago, Shadow said:

Here’s a list I took to a 3 round competitive tourney and won 2 of 3, lost the third because I made a tactical mistake that cost me the game by 1 point in the last round.

 

Bloodtoof tribe

megaboss - quick duff amulet.

megaboss on maw krusha - boss hacka and choppa - ethereal amulet - brutish cunning

warcaster

warcaster

3x gore gruntas - jagged gore hacka

6x gore gruntas - jagged gore hacka

9x gore gruntas - jagged gore hacka
Gore fist

reroll

1970

Isnt your Megaboss with the Quick Duff Amulet forced to take the Bloodtoofs trait? I don't see how it is legal to have Brutish Cunning.

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Question, if we accept that we can spend as many CP as we have on the Ardifst, are we not still capped at 5 units of Ard boyz? Reading the command ability it says that you add a unit of 10 to the battalion. The battalion caps at five, is the unit restriction somehow bypassed during play?

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1 hour ago, Electricferret said:

Question, if we accept that we can spend as many CP as we have on the Ardifst, are we not still capped at 5 units of Ard boyz? Reading the command ability it says that you add a unit of 10 to the battalion. The battalion caps at five, is the unit restriction somehow bypassed during play?

I assume it overrides the cap since it states that the unit is _added_ to the battalion.

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The rules say  you can take an understrength unit if you don't have enough models.  So bringing understrength units with the intent to green puke them is illegal because you would clearly have enough models in your summoning box.

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1 minute ago, tolstedt said:

The rules say  you can take an understrength unit if you don't have enough models.  So bringing understrength units with the intent to green puke them is illegal because you would clearly have enough models in your summoning box.

The plaguetouched warband for Nurgle being legal shows otherwise. We have precedent for wilfully including under-strength units at a list building stage.

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3 minutes ago, Malakree said:

The plaguetouched warband for Nurgle being legal shows otherwise. We have precedent for wilfully including under-strength units at a list building stage.

You're tearing me apart!

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7 hours ago, Electricferret said:

Question, if we accept that we can spend as many CP as we have on the Ardifst, are we not still capped at 5 units of Ard boyz? Reading the command ability it says that you add a unit of 10 to the battalion. The battalion caps at five, is the unit restriction somehow bypassed during play?

It would be a possible fix to add an errata "You may never have more than five units of 'ardboyz in this battalion on the battlefield."

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