umpac Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 28 minutes ago, alterdeqip said: Can i chose to fight with MK1 that is under the locus? Yes. Locus controls the order in which you get to pick your units. S&B says ****** the order, you go now! The rules specifically states that you fight now "instead of waiting". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alterdeqip Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Thx all, now it is much more clear. I just have a local tournament this weekend so need some proofs for S&B to move our slaanesh player from the first place) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skumbaagh Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 There is an interesting discussion on the warclans group on Facebook about the ardfist and the wording of the ability. As it is written (RAW) it seems that one could burn several CP when a unit of ardboys die and get back a unit on each 4+. Do you guys have any opinions on this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TALegion Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Skumbaagh said: There is an interesting discussion on the warclans group on Facebook about the ardfist and the wording of the ability. As it is written (RAW) it seems that one could burn several CP when a unit of ardboys die and get back a unit on each 4+. Do you guys have any opinions on this? Wow. I never thought of that at all. Unless there's something I'm not aware of, RAW sounds like it allows that. The command ability does give the condition that it triggers on the death of an ardboy unit, but other command abilities specify when they can be used, too (e.g. start of combat, end of hero phase, etc.), and those can be used multiple times, unless stated otherwise. It also was not addressed in the FAQ, which technically doesn't confirm it, but it doesn't say anything against it. That being, if this allowed, do people think this is a viable approach? You can easily build a list with 3+d3 command points on turn one, and then just throw ardboyz up the board to get your opponent to kill them. Ex: Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: HyshMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa- Artefact: Destroyer- Mount Trait: Mean 'UnOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- General- Trait: Dead Kunnin'- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of GorkOrruk Warchanter (110)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch- Warbeat: Get 'Em BeatOrruk Warchanter (110)- Warbeat: Killa Beat6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)Ardfist (120)Ironfist (160)Extra Command Point (50) Two of the ardboy units have to go into the ironfist, but I think it's a worthwhile investment. You don't want to waste CP on MDs if you're trying to spam the ardfist ability, and the 6-man GG units are very effective. The megaboss is intended to be used to clear walls and any giant units that would give 10-man ardboy squads trouble. This leaves you with 4 ardboyz in the Ardfist, probably leaving 2 of them on back-line objectives if your opponent can teleport or just running them all forward. The weirdnob can also teleport a unit on a cast roll of 6, letting you pin down your backline units or forcing your opponent to kill the boyz. The list might work better as a Big Waaagh, giving the ardboyz +1 wound, +1 hit, and a 6++, but i'll take a crack at that later. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skumbaagh Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 ... Or do you need the opponent to kill them? What is the minimum size of a unit? 1 model right? You just pay the tax for 5 models... The you have a spell like green puke that targets an area. You even get to throw it twice if you have a unit of 10 models close. The burning head is a D3 damage too.. It's pretty easy to kill off a 2 wound model by yourself... 3 CP+D3 you say? How about another 3 CP on 4+ from 3 allied fungoid cave shamans!? Then we have the brooch on top of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Skumbaagh said: ... Or do you need the opponent to kill them? What is the minimum size of a unit? 1 model right? You just pay the tax for 5 models... The you have a spell like green puke that targets an area. You even get to throw it twice if you have a unit of 10 models close. The burning head is a D3 damage too.. It's pretty easy to kill off a 2 wound model by yourself... 3 CP+D3 you say? How about another 3 CP on 4+ from 3 allied fungoid cave shamans!? Then we have the brooch on top of that. Uh yeah that would work...fricking disgusting but it would work... EDIT: Best case, 10+ units turn 1... Edited October 23, 2019 by Malakree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayerJ Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, Malakree said: Uh yeah that would work...fricking disgusting but it would work... EDIT: Best case, 10+ units turn 1... Adding to the discussion, the stormcast have a similar ability, but it was recently errata'd to be only once per phase, which we currently dont 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skumbaagh Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Here is a start... Now were do we wanna go? I think more ard boys is not necessary at all since you could bring more boys from the boys you just summoned. A maw krusha and pigs perhaps? We need 12 units thou to bring 3 fungoids. 2 may be enough. Big waagh may be the best way for the +to hit and wound and smashing and bashing doesn't work very well with small unbuffed units. Allegiance: Ironjawz Leaders Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110) - General - Trait: Dead Kunnin' Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90) - Allies Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90) - Allies Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90) - Allies Orruk Warchanter (110) Battleline 5 x Orruk Ardboys (90) 5 x Orruk Ardboys (90) 5 x Orruk Ardboys (90) Battalions Ardfist (120) Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs Extra Command Point (50) Total: 930 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 2 Allies: 270 / 400 Wounds: 54 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TALegion Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Skumbaagh said: ... Or do you need the opponent to kill them? What is the minimum size of a unit? 1 model right? You just pay the tax for 5 models... Is this tournament legal? Can you bring a single model but willingly pay for all 5? If so, we definitely are able to kill one ardboyz with our own spells, no doubt. 47 minutes ago, Skumbaagh said: Here is a start... Now were do we wanna go? I think more ard boys is not necessary at all since you could bring more boys from the boys you just summoned. A maw krusha and pigs perhaps? We need 12 units thou to bring 3 fungoids. 2 may be enough. Big waagh may be the best way for the +to hit and wound and smashing and bashing doesn't work very well with small unbuffed units. Allegiance: Ironjawz Leaders Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110) - General - Trait: Dead Kunnin' Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90) - Allies Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90) - Allies Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90) - Allies Orruk Warchanter (110) Battleline 5 x Orruk Ardboys (90) 5 x Orruk Ardboys (90) 5 x Orruk Ardboys (90) Battalions Ardfist (120) Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs Extra Command Point (50) Total: 930 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 2 Allies: 270 / 400 Wounds: 54 I drafted my list out of what models I have, but this makes more sense. Both being a Big Waaagh list + incorporating cave shamans would be an improvement. Imo, we'd likely want another warchanter for the additional Waaagh points, and you can fit some GGs + a Mawkrusha with something like this: Allegiance: Big Waaagh!Mortal Realm: HyshMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- General- Trait: Dead Kunnin' - Artefact: Shamanic SkullcapeOrruk Warchanter (110)- Artefact: Aetherquartz BroochOrruk Warchanter (110)Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- AlliesFungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- Allies6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)10 x Savage Orruks (120)10 x Savage Orruks (120)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)Ardfist (120)Extra Command Point (50)The Burning Head (30)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 180 / 400Wounds: 141 The weapon loadouts can be adjusted to taste, but I would imagine that Aetherquartz would be the artefact of choice in this circumstance. Thoughts? Edit: To give a rough idea, this gives you 2+d3 CP plus 2 more (per turn) on 4+s. An average amount of CP for this is 5 on turn 1. If you killed 1 ardboy and dumped all your CP into the Ardfist ability, factoring in Aetherquartz, you'd get about 6 opportunities to use the ability. This averages to about 3 successful unit summons on turn 1. Obviously, there's a lot of room for this number to go up or down, but it gives a rough idea of you're working with. Edited October 23, 2019 by TALegion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) @Skumbaagh Quote Allegiance: Big Waaagh!Mortal Realm: HyshLeadersOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- General- Trait: Dead Kunnin'- Artefact: Great Green Visions- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of GorkWurrgog Prophet (160)Wurrgog Prophet (160)Wurrgog Prophet (160)Wurrgog Prophet (160)Orruk Warchanter (110)- Artefact: Aetherquartz BroochBattleline10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)30 x Savage Orruks (300)- Stikkas30 x Savage Orruks (300)- StikkasUnits5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)BattalionsArdfist (120)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 200 Start with 2+d3 command points. First turn you get +1 CP You get 5 rolls of a 4+ for a CP each hero phase. So 3.5 + 1 +2.5 CP Average first turn CP is 7. Spending 6 CP should on average net you +2 with the Broach, the extra 3 then gives you a third. Average ability activations on the first turn is 10. Understrength a unit of 5 to 1. Green puke on it, use the Ability to green puke on it again. Use the ability 10 times. Average gain on first turn ~50 ardboys. This 900 points. Theoretical maximum (assuming average Broach rolls) ~150 Ardboys. This is 2700 points... #balance. EDIT: ON TURN 1 this says nothing about the future gains from it. Average over a game is probably about 2k points. Edited October 23, 2019 by Malakree 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Malakree said: @Skumbaagh Start with 2+d3 command points. First turn you get +1 CP You get 5 rolls of a 4+ for a CP each hero phase. So 3.5 + 1 +2.5 CP Average first turn CP is 7. Spending 6 CP should on average net you +2 with the Broach, the extra 3 then gives you a third. Average ability activations on the first turn is 10. Understrength a unit of 5 to 1. Green puke on it, use the Ability to green puke on it again. Use the ability 10 times. Average gain on first turn ~50 ardboys. This 900 points. Theoretical maximum (assuming average Broach rolls) ~150 Ardboys. This is 2700 points... #balance. EDIT: ON TURN 1 this says nothing about the future gains from it. Average over a game is probably about 2k points. So you thought Slaanesh summoning was bad, huh? Lemmie tell ya about Ardfist.. So yeah real talk, this needs to be made 1 CP pr. unit destroyed, or you can use multiple CPs until you succeed in rolling a 4+. This many bodies in a Big Waaagh army with armywide +1/+1 and FNP save etc. would be nuts. Way too many bodies for people to chew through to get to the objectives. Edited October 23, 2019 by Kasper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, Kasper said: So you thought Slaanesh summoning was bad, huh? Lemmie tell ya about Ardfist.. So yeah real talk, this needs to be made 1 CP pr. unit destroyed, or you can use multiple CPs until you succeed in rolling a 4+. This many bodies in a Big Waaagh army with armywide +1/+1 and FNP save etc. would be nuts. Way too many bodies for people to chew through to get to the objectives. If it's still legal by chrimbobo I might talk to my teammate about running this filth. Quote Allegiance: Big Waaagh!Mortal Realm: HyshLeadersOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)- General- Trait: Dead Kunnin'- Artefact: Great Green Visions- Lore of the Weird: Wrath of GorkOrruk Warchanter (110)- Warbeat: Fixin' BeatWurrgog Prophet (160)- Artefact: Aetherquartz BroochBattleline10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)Units5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)BattalionsArdfist (120)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Total: 1000 / 1000Extra Command Points: 2Wounds: 69 Not quite as daft since you only get the 2 CP shots per turn but still pretty bad. 3 from first turn. 1.5 from Trait. 1 from 2 - 4+ 5.5 base. +2 from broach 7.5 Activations of the Ardfist. Round up because of errors carried through to give 4 summons turn 1. So 40 free Ardboys on turn 1 at 1k points. Then an extra 10 everyturn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Malakree said: If it's still legal by chrimbobo I might talk to my teammate about running this filth. Not quite as daft since you only get the 2 CP shots per turn but still pretty bad. 3 from first turn. 1.5 from Trait. 1 from 2 - 4+ 5.5 base. +2 from broach 7.5 Activations of the Ardfist. Round up because of errors carried through to give 4 summons turn 1. So 40 free Ardboys on turn 1 at 1k points. Then an extra 10 everyturn. Wrath of Gork could get real fun real fast with such a list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Kasper said: Wrath of Gork could get real fun real fast with such a list Lol, he's going to be playing a dorf gunline. Might need to see if he can go as Dorf Santa and I'll go as Orruk Grinch Will need to see if my club will lend me a bunch of Ardboys tho hahahaha Edited October 23, 2019 by Malakree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonSmall Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) Not even going to think about running this list - it will be FAQ'd. Lets stick with the double Cabbage fun list and not have the rest of the AoS community hate us like Slannesh players 😂 Will definitely be giving something like this a go for a laugh - doesn't need Turn 1 if you get out deployed as the key models are easy to protect - you can either throw the whole army in T1 with a combination of Scuttletide/Gorefist/Mighty Destroyers or use a couple of gruntas and the survivable Krusha to kill chaff and hold back out of range before hitting T2 with the rest. Allegiance: IronjawzMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- General- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa- Trait: Ironclad- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet- Mount Trait: Weird 'UnMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa- Artefact: The Ragged Cloak- Mount Trait: Mean 'UnOrruk Warchanter (110)Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)- AlliesWardokk (80)- Allies3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron Choppas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron Choppas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron Choppas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)- Pig-iron ChoppasGorefist (130)Scuttletide (30)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 170 / 400Wounds: 105 Edited October 24, 2019 by VonSmall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slandible Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 I've ran the Big Waagh and had some success, but I tried out pure IJ today and man do they hit hard. I ran 12 pigs in Gorefist and a Mawkrusher under Ironsunz and ended up tabling two games. The pig alpha with Fury and charging Hackas has crazy mobility and damage out put. I also ran a super aggro Maw by Mighty Detroyer turn one and walk (24 inches), got the Get Em prayer off every time and 3D6 charge anything I wanted. I got 6 Strength in Victory bonuses in the second game to get up to 21 wounds. I cant believe the damage buff pure IJ have gotten since the last edition, I'm very surprised in this damage spike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TALegion Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 @VonSmall I believe Wardokks' abilities are only able to affect Bonesplitterz units, so I don't think it can do much here. If you wanted to make an easy swap, Ironskull's Boyz are exactly 80pts. If nothing else, they can sit on a backline objective and prevent deepstrikes. Also, Etheral Amulet and Ironclad don't work together (unfortunately for us). Ethereal cancels negatives and positive armor changes. Luckily. this isn't a huge deal, as you can just swap Ethereal onto the other Mawkrusha and they'll both still be super tanky. You could keep the ragged cloak, too, or you could try to increase your damage output with Destoyer/Metalrippa's Klaw. It's all situational. People also have different opinions on this, but I think it might be worth combining 2 units of GGs into a 6-man unit. This is a much juicier target for your WC, and the marginal increase in damage for that unit would be much better than it is for Mawkrushas. I.e. It doubles GGs' damage, while only increasing Mawkrusha's by 50%. With this + 3 MDs (which you have the points for), you're pretty much guaranteed a turn 1 alpha strike with three ridiculously killy units. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonSmall Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 All good points cheers! The Wardokk is mainly there as a cheap spell caster who potentially gets +1cast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Slandible said: I've ran the Big Waagh and had some success, but I tried out pure IJ today and man do they hit hard. I ran 12 pigs in Gorefist and a Mawkrusher under Ironsunz and ended up tabling two games. The pig alpha with Fury and charging Hackas has crazy mobility and damage out put. I also ran a super aggro Maw by Mighty Detroyer turn one and walk (24 inches), got the Get Em prayer off every time and 3D6 charge anything I wanted. I got 6 Strength in Victory bonuses in the second game to get up to 21 wounds. I cant believe the damage buff pure IJ have gotten since the last edition, I'm very surprised in this damage spike. Who are you using the beat on? It is in charge phase and wholly within 12”. Your Warchanter is not gonna keep up if you also MD the unit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinacridoneGold Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 How do Brutes perform with the new book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstedt Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 7 hours ago, Kasper said: Who are you using the beat on? It is in charge phase and wholly within 12”. Your Warchanter is not gonna keep up if you also MD the unit That's my question as well. Seems hard to use offensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 21 minutes ago, tolstedt said: That's my question as well. Seems hard to use offensively. Seems hard to use always. 44 minutes ago, QuinacridoneGold said: How do Brutes perform with the new book? Personally I'm rate them as ok. Slightly less durable than ardboys, if a little more vulnerable to battleshock, but a bit more damage. Their biggest issue is the comparison to GGs which are amazing right now but I wouldn't peg them as bad or unusable. They have a place in a lot of lists, as one of unit, and there are some lists you can build around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven_lord Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Hey, just hey my Book. Do you think am I good to go on competitive scene with models I own? - Mawcrusha - Megaboss on foot - 2 Warchanters - Weirdnob - Fungoid cave shaman - 20 Ardboys - 10 Brutes - 6 Gore Gruntas Thank you!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeFredd Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Wow! I've just read through the Battletome. I like it a lot! So, I'm thinking of joining the Waaagh. We have a little campaigne in our LGS, everyone plans a 1000 point list. I like the Big waaagh a lot, but I'm not shure if the Big waaagh realy comes to his whole potetial on 1000 points. Does the big waaagh reaches the upper levels quick enough? Alternativly I'm thinking about the Bloodtoofs. They have their ability from the start. What do you think? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 3 hours ago, JudgeFredd said: Wow! I've just read through the Battletome. I like it a lot! So, I'm thinking of joining the Waaagh. We have a little campaigne in our LGS, everyone plans a 1000 point list. I like the Big waaagh a lot, but I'm not shure if the Big waaagh realy comes to his whole potetial on 1000 points. Does the big waaagh reaches the upper levels quick enough? Alternativly I'm thinking about the Bloodtoofs. They have their ability from the start. What do you think? I wouldn't run the Big Waaagh in a 1.000 pts. army. You simply wont generate enough points to get the juicy +1/1 bonus imo. Bloodtoofs is okay, but I feel the purpose of the clan is the 1 pr. game secured teleport - If you don't have a plan around using this, I wouldn't bother as the rest doesn't seem that useful. Now it depends on what your list is gonna look like, but I would personally look at Ironsunz or no warclan at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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