AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Malakree]

One of the big things I think should be done is raising the Mawkrusha fists to -3. AIt's shocking some of the things which have the same or better rend. Especially whrn you consider the levels of blunt force trauma involved, one of the traditional ways of dealing with super heavy armour.

I'd also like to see a buff for the brute boss choppa. It is a really cool weapon but is just shockingly bad compared to the klaw/Smasha.

[Planar]

Reading the realmgate rules:

I am wondering if bloodtoofs can use this  "6in away from edge of the battlefield" to their advantage somehow. Especially the part that does not specify that you have to be Xin away from enemy models when re-deploying. This could be used to drop some elite troops directly into combat behind enemy lines and when least expected.

I am looking at you Slaan starmaster...

 

 

[Rock Lobster]

1 hour ago, Planar said:

Reading the realmgate rules:

I am wondering if bloodtoofs can use this  "6in away from edge of the battlefield" to their advantage somehow. Especially the part that does not specify that you have to be Xin away from enemy models when re-deploying. This could be used to drop some elite troops directly into combat behind enemy lines and when least expected.

I am looking at you Slaan starmaster...

 

 

I think they updated the rules to drop the 6" of table edge to only allow you to go through from one realmgate to another. Hence it does nothing when we place one down. However if 1 ironjawz bloodtoofs list faces another, hilarity ensures with Orruks flying through the void and popping up on the other side.

[Planar]

5 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said:

I think they updated the rules to drop the 6" of table edge to only allow you to go through from one realmgate to another. Hence it does nothing when we place one down. However if 1 ironjawz bloodtoofs list faces another, hilarity ensures with Orruks flying through the void and popping up on the other side.

I was looking for an updated rule but cant find it. Azyr still has the "6" deployment" version.

So essentially the realmgate is completely useless as far as the battalion is concerned?

[Rock Lobster]

51 minutes ago, Planar said:

I was looking for an updated rule but cant find it. Azyr still has the "6" deployment" version.

So essentially the realmgate is completely useless as far as the battalion is concerned?

Yep, see the warscroll below. It just looks pretty at this point. Only good use for it is plonking it somewhere annoying on your opponents side of the table like where they would want to stand their stuff, or blocking a charge lane or something.

[Rock Lobster]

9 hours ago, Thenord said:

This! This would actually help a lot and could be done via a FAQ. Hopefully gw will make it right, at some point...

I agree, even without any points changes these quick fixes would make list building so much more fun.

New lists like:

Megaboss on foot

warchanter * 2

fungoid with cogs

3 x 10 brutes

2 x 5 ardboyz

bloodtoofs & ironfist

Cogs

(all about the big brute blocks)

Or magic banaza:

Megaboss on Maw Krusha

Megaboss on Maw Krusha

Wierdnob

Wierdnob

Wierdnob

4 x 5 ardboyz

1 x 10 ardboyz

Weirdfist

Vortex

Spell portal

or a list with 20 man ardboyz supported by warchanters as a wave of green.

The biggest difference for most lists and I would settle for just these if no other choice would be Ardboyz in 5 man blocks maxing at 20 (like sequitors) and having the option for the footboss as well as maw krusha - just those 2 things would give a ton more flexibility.

[Gdead909]

Ardboyz come in blocks of ten. Brutes come in blocks of 5

[Malakree]

9 minutes ago, Gdead909 said:

Ardboyz come in blocks of ten. Brutes come in blocks of 5

Yeah the discussion is that Ardboyz should come in blocks of 5, same as liberators.

It would give a lot more flexibility for list building.

[ledha]

On 9/18/2018 at 4:00 PM, Rock Lobster said:

I think they updated the rules to drop the 6" of table edge to only allow you to go through from one realmgate to another. Hence it does nothing when we place one down. However if 1 ironjawz bloodtoofs list faces another, hilarity ensures with Orruks flying through the void and popping up on the other side.

seen that, was hilarious, the ironjaw bloodbath i was promised turned out to be a dragon ball fight with units teleporting everywhere

[Thenord]

Gonna try out this list when I get the last models I'm missing.

Megaboss on cabbage (generel, ironclad and daubing of gork)

Footboss 

Wierdnob

2x chanter 

20 ard boys

10 brutes with Gore hakas and klaw on boss

2x3 gruntas 

Ironskulls boys

Cogs 

1950 points. 

Chain of ard boys in front with brutes right behind with their 2" reach.  Characters  behind and gruntas on flanka, ironskulls boys ledt behind for objektiv / denying DS. Hopefullyhen 2 times waaaaaaaaargh! 

whatch a thinki g?

[broche]

I like. Good idea of hiding brutes behind boyz. However i think i would split the ardboyz in 2 x 10 would take the Tooth  for artefact. Also not sold on the cog.  army is quite defensive, maybe another endless spell would serve you better?

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, broche said:

I like. Good idea of hiding brutes behind boyz. However i think i would split the ardboyz in 2 x 10 would take the Tooth  for artefact. Also not sold on the cog.  army is quite defensive, maybe another endless spell would serve you better?

Or even drop the cogs for a unit of 10 savage orruks to sit around the weirdnob.

One question, how are you getting 50 points spare. The list only has even costed units so it should be a 60 or 40 left.

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Units
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)

Total: 1900 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 147

ahh I see, cogs are 60 points not 50.

[Thenord]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

Or even drop the cogs for a unit of 10 savage orruks to sit around the weirdnob.

One question, how are you getting 50 points spare. The list only has even costed units so it should be a 60 or 40 left.

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)
10 x Orruk Brutes (360)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Units
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)

Total: 1900 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 147

ahh I see, cogs are 60 points not 50.

@Malakree Oh my bad.. Been working with so many lists I mix them up some time. You're right in that its 1960 points and not 1950. 

Regarding the savage orruks, I would like to keep my army pure ironjawz, only thing I might ally in would be 2 rock lobbas, which I think are really underrated with the new rules of LOS in the shooting phase ☺️

I could skip the cogs and ironskulls boys to bump the ard boys to 30 and then hit the magical 1950 for an extra command point (and 12 more wounds..) that might be Better?

[broche]

personnaly i would keep as this, just splitting the ardboys in 2 x 10, and replace Cog for a thru spell like geminid. Geminid should serve you well with its 26'' range. Since you have high drop (no bataillion) if you go first and cast geminid, you'll save a lot of damage if you get stolen in round 2 as you can debuff two units first. That put you at 1940, netting you the CP and should let you have the triumph as well.

Personnaly I like gruntas in group of 6 (so with just one occurence of Mighty destroyer they can move 18'')

I find tha 3 pig have hard time claiming an objective, while 6 buffed pig can clean a big units and then hold it for a while (you'll rarely loose more than 2 pig a turn)

Obviously 2 x 3 cover more board so it's not that clear cut, YMMV

[Thenord]

Thanks @broche that makes sence. I thought geminids were useless after the FAQ but I guess you can still hit two different units with one of each?

What do you think of this then: 

Cabbage boss

Foot Boss

Chanter 

Wierdnob

10 ard boys

10 ard boys

10 brutes 

6 gruntas 

2 rock lobbas 

Geminids

1980 points and 151 wounds.

[Malakree]

@Thenord

Looks pretty solid. Consider whether it's worth taking a 20 point spell, it's that vs the triumph. Both are reasonable options.

[Thenord]

Thanks @Malakree 

I guess I could take swords with the last 20 points. 

For the most part, 20 points is not enough to get the Triumph in the club I play. Usually guys hit around ≤1950 to get the extra command point.

[Malakree]

6 hours ago, Thenord said:

Thanks @Malakree 

I guess I could take swords with the last 20 points. 

For the most part, 20 points is not enough to get the Triumph in the club I play. Usually guys hit around ≤1950 to get the extra command point.

Yeah, it's one of those things to consider. Both can be good, shackles are way better than they look on the warscroll. I'd definitely suggest trying both before you decide. A move 2 brute isn't that much worse tbh, a move 4 demoneetes is much worse.

Just finished a 1 day local tournament, not at facehammer, sadly forgot to get pictures sorry guys.

The list I ran was

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Miasmatic Blade 
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Talisman of the Watcher 
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Ironfist (180)
Bloodtoofs (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133

So initial thoughts. Some minor errors, and a 12" charge from a unit of 9 eels on his turn 1 ?lost me the first game but it was close the whole way and a brutal slaughterfest.

Game 2 I claimed all 3 objectives on shifting objectives vs legion of blood and just tanked on them for the game.

Game 3 was places of arcane power which I claimed two objectives and sat on them. The centre point was a slappy fight in mystical woods for 4 turns...

In each game I chose to go first so I could grab the objectives.

The ironjawz allegiance cannon is so disgusting if it goes off, had a warchanter make a move of 18" off one of then.

God I've missed my big unit of ardboys. Going from 7/3 2h/shields to 7/13 makes them so much better it's unreal.

I didn't miss the wizards at all, there was no point in any game where I missed having them.

The footboss remains garbage, I hate him. He's super slow so is incredibly hard to get into combat, the low threat range also means the opponent just keeps their heroes and monsters away from him. Also soaks up both warchanter buffs which I desperately needed elsewhere.

Miasmatic blade remains great. Someone suggested doppelganger cloak in the fb group and actually I think it might have been more useful. The turns where we explode everything dies anyway, it's surviving the other turns which is important.

Talisman of the watcher was a surprise standout. The warchanter is generally not in combat anyway and having a free mystic shield on exactly the unit you need it for that combat phase is amazing.

God did I miss the aetherquartz broach. Not having it made the explosive turns less explosive and made other cp uses far more expensive to use.

Changes I'd make

Drop the footboss, I hate him. Everytime I use one I find myself wishing it was a warchanter instead.

Potentially put the SoJ on the cabbage. At least I actually want the wc buffs on him anyway. That's if I stay ulgu at all.

Maybe go up to 30 ardboys at 7/23, they tank so unbelievably hard and give you a core around which to manoeuvre the rest of your army.

Really tempted to go aetherquartz+prophet. How I play with the cabbage and army in general just compliments it so well.

If not I'd be more likely to try out shyish than stick ulgu. Take the ethereal on the cabbage and run brutish cunning instead of ironclad. That would give me access to the splinter bow for ranged mortal wound potential for the warchanters.

Obviously I'm not the greatest of players but I honestly think anyone whose trying bloodtoofs should give a no magic list a go.

[Banglesprout]

Hey @Malakree awesome to hear your report as that's exactly the list I'm currently building towards!

It's a shame you hate the footboss as he's such a great model! What are you considering swapping him out for? Obvious choice is the warboss on a boar with the waaagh banner as he's a straight swap for points.. or maybe go for something more interesting - a wizard + endless spell perhaps?

[Malakree]

26 minutes ago, Banglesprout said:

Hey @Malakree awesome to hear your report as that's exactly the list I'm currently building towards!

It's a shame you hate the footboss as he's such a great model! What are you considering swapping him out for? Obvious choice is the warboss on a boar with the waaagh banner as he's a straight swap for points.. or maybe go for something more interesting - a wizard + endless spell perhaps?

Go up to 30 ardboys with 10 for triumph tbh. Another 10 shields gives you a disgusting tarpit which you can just throw across the board and force your opponent to engage into.

It also puts raw wounds onto the board which is one of the megas weaknesses.

Last but not least is it gives you an amazing to use the ironjawz cannon on.

Proc the move on them, run and make it a 6 for 1 cp. That's 11" move with the bloodtoofs. If you can then proc a second and run again you are moving between 13" and 18" iron fist onto that and you have now just pushed 30 ardboys at least 25" across the board in your hero phase.

There's also some ambiguity in the wording of the run rules. Specifically it specifies that the increased move characteristic is for "this movement phase" so it doesn't actually specify it falling off at the end of your hero phase. Personally I think it should bit you can make the case for the run move lasting till the end of the move phase.

That would mean with a run in your move phase you are now going 4+6+2d6+3 on top of whatever you did in the hero phase.

Theoretical maximum is 11"+18"+25" for 54" movement....

Good job there gw!

Edit: this list. Has a respectable 147 wounds 

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Ironfist (180)
Bloodtoofs (120)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 146

Edited September 22, 2018 by Malakree

[BenWithJam]

@Malakree how did you find 2 units of Brutes? Seen a lot of lists running at least 3, did you ever feel you wanted more kill-ie things, or just played the objective game?

[Malakree]

Just now, BenWithJam said:

@Malakree how did you find 2 units of Brutes? Seen a lot of lists running at least 3, did you ever feel you wanted more kill-ie things, or just played the objective game?

I play the objective game and use the brutes as more of a surgical tool. They are slow so I use ardboys/ggs to pin and then bring the brutes in where I need them on the explosion turn.

I think the 3 brutes list are using them as battleline, traditional sense, where as I use them as specialists.

[Scythian]

Decided to put together a brute heavy list.

Megaboss with Golden Toof and Hulking Muscle-bound Brute

Weirdnob 

Warchanter

2@ 15 Brutes with gore hackas and 3 gore choppas 

5 Brutes with double choppas and 1 gore choppas

1 Rogue Idol (Allied)

[Superninja]

     Just had a good game vs my Skaven buddy on Aqshy.  Battle for the Pass was the battleplan.

     Pinned him back a bit with a unit of 6 Goregruntas with Gore-Hackas.  Using the 2" Range to try and get to stuff behind the bubblewrap.  Buffed them up with +2 to hit, +1 damage on weapons, +1 to wound/charge rolls, and Mystic Shield.  Used my only proc of Mighty Destroyers and got them in first turn.  Didn't do quite as much as I could of, but i think it won me the game. 

     Missing the movement of Ironfist, but loving the extra models on the board. 

     Love the realm spells. Gives us something to cast.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Destruction
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- Allies
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- Allies
20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)(w/Gore-hackas)
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)(w/gore-Hackas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- 1x Gore Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)(w/Gore Hackas)
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 160 / 400
Wounds: 157

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Superninja

[Superninja]

I am 3-1 since my post of doom.  Thanks all for the pep talk and strats!

Don't give up!