Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[NoTurtlesAllowed]

I suspect shipping costs from the UK to Australia and NZ

[Aezeal]

2 hours ago, StealthKnightSteg said:

I hope you mean A5.. as A3 is 2 times bigger then A4... that would fill a table pretty fast with papers

ofc meant A5  thx

[Olincay]

9 hours ago, Attackmack said:

Btw, the new 10-man boxes priced at 120+ at the gw site??!?? This cant be right?

Pretty sure the Liberators and Judicators are $105 for 10.
Previously I think it was $85 for 5.
Warhammer down under is a super expensive hobby to have.

[Grailstorm]

On 12/02/2017 at 4:47 PM, wayniac said:

So I just bought into stormcasts yesterday My GW still had one of the holiday battleforces (with the prime) so I bought that, a lord celestant on foot, a lord castellant on foot, and pre-ordered the new tome (LE was sold out), warscroll cards and a box of Judicators.  Not really sure how I want to build things at the moment, but I'm definitely excited.

Are the dracoth riders (e.g. Concussors/Desolators/Fulminators/Tempestors) any good?  the battleforce came with two, but I'm thinking of assembling them both as lord celestants on dracoths with different weapons options.  I did not buy the starter set due to the lack of weapons options and only 3 retributors (but will likely try to find a Lord Relictor for sale on ebay as I want to add him).  I also have an extra unassembled Knight Azyros/Venator kit (from silver tower heroes box) as well.

They are outstandingly good. Dracoth cav are one of the most devastating units in the game ?

[wayniac]

15 minutes ago, Grailstorm said:

They are outstandingly good. Dracoth cav are one of the most devastating units in the game ?

What would you recommend assembling the 2 that come in the Battleforce as, then?

[Immersturm]

Make the arms interchangeable with magnets. If not, Fulmenators (the spear guys) seem to be the most widely used by a good margin.

[Riavan]

12 hours ago, Immersturm said:

Make the arms interchangeable with magnets. If not, Fulmenators (the spear guys) seem to be the most widely used by a good margin.

I though it was concussors unless in larger groups.

[Ravenwing]

Yeah, concussors are best for all round battle. 

Fulmenators are awesome if you get the charge in and go first. 

 

[Shorewood]

2 hours ago, Ravenwing said:

Yeah, concussors are best for all round battle. 

Fulmenators are awesome if you get the charge in and go first. 

 

Yeah combine the Fulmenators with the Herald hero that lets you move out of combat and still charge and you are all set.  charge, next turn retreat charge again, Rinse rather and repeat. 

[wayniac]

The new book makes me even more unsure, because I know I want a unit of the Vanguard-Palladors and a Lord Aquilor probably as my general.   Already thinking of something like this:

Lord Aquilor - 200
Lord Castellant - 100
Knight Venator - 120

10 Liberators - 200
10 Judicators - 320
5 Retributors - 220
10 Vanguard Hunters - 280
6 Vanguard-Palladors - 440

With 120 points left (maybe a second Knight Venator)? With the idea being I have a solid defense with the liberators, backed by the Judicators, the Retributors to deep strike in when I make the charge, and Palladors + Vanguards to harrass the enemy flanks and redeploy where needed.

[SuperKick]

Haven't read all the leaked rules as I'd prefer to read my own book when it arrives but I did notice the vexillor is down to 140, seems to be the only point adjustment on models. Makes me happy as when I first starter stormcast the vex ret combo was in mind. 

[SuperKick]

1 hour ago, wayniac said:

The new book makes me even more unsure, because I know I want a unit of the Vanguard-Palladors and a Lord Aquilor probably as my general.   Already thinking of something like this:

Lord Aquilor - 200
Lord Castellant - 100
Knight Venator - 120

10 Liberators - 200
10 Judicators - 320
5 Retributors - 220
10 Vanguard Hunters - 280
6 Vanguard-Palladors - 440

With 120 points left (maybe a second Knight Venator)? With the idea being I have a solid defense with the liberators, backed by the Judicators, the Retributors to deep strike in when I make the charge, and Palladors + Vanguards to harrass the enemy flanks and redeploy where needed.

How are you deep striking the rets in the list? 

[wayniac]

Unless I'm mistaken, all Stormcast get the ability to be held back into reserve by default now, and come in on a 3+ in the new book.  It no longer requires anything special.

[Craig]

An judicators arnt battleline ((


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[wayniac]

1 minute ago, Craig said:

An judicators arnt battleline ((


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are, but only for Stormcast  

[Olincay]

It appears those new hunters are battleline. Woohoo. 

[Turragor]

8 hours ago, SuperKick said:

Haven't read all the leaked rules as I'd prefer to read my own book when it arrives but I did notice the vexillor is down to 140, seems to be the only point adjustment on models. Makes me happy as when I first starter stormcast the vex ret combo was in mind. 

The port is gone maybe?

There is a totem choice section which doesn't include it.

Scratch that, the choice in the totem table doesn't override what the totem already did.

There is now also prayer that does a similar thing with a few more restrictions. Isn't once per battle though as far as I can see.

Those prayers rock! I want a new relictor clam pack. Or I'll build my own 2nd. 

 

5 hours ago, Olincay said:

It appears those new hunters are battleline. Woohoo. 

Yeah with the chicken Lord as general. 

There are so many cool new rules! 

Totems

Lanterns 

Mount traits

Prayers

Scions of the storm 

Traits and artefacts! 

Big formation shake up. Wb and slayers gone or renamed. 

I predict some formation will allow closer or more guaranteed lightning strikes and be the spiritual successor to those old meta staples. 

One small thing  I noted was Lord celestant on dracoth Mount trait - dracoths 6s to wound can now be bombs! - 3 rend d6 damage. 

Oh and the chicken mounts have - 2 rend which is amusing to me when the stardrake needs to trait it (and roll 6s to wound)

Oh the new long range bows are hefty also. 

Really looking forward to the tome. 

[BURF1]

9 hours ago, Shorewood said:

Yeah combine the Fulmenators with the Herald hero that lets you move out of combat and still charge and you are all set.  charge, next turn retreat charge again, Rinse rather and repeat. 

Think carefully before you actually do this, you're giving up 2d3 shots hitting on 3+ doing 2 mortal wounds per shot in exchange for +2 damage on 6 melee attacks 3+ 3+ -1 as you can retreat and charge but not retreat and shoot. So 5.33 mortal wounds+2.66 -1 rend regular wounds or 8 damage at -1 rend. Basically you lose damage on anything with better than a 6+ save and don't gain anything even if they have no save at all.

[Turragor]

3 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

Think carefully before you actually do this, you're giving up 2d3 shots hitting on 3+ doing 2 mortal wounds per shot in exchange for +2 damage on 6 melee attacks 3+ 3+ -1 as you can retreat and charge but not retreat and shoot. So 5.33 mortal wounds+2.66 -1 rend regular wounds or 8 damage at -1 rend. Basically you lose damage on anything with better than a 6+ save and don't gain anything even if they have no save at all.

The within 3 inches shooting boost is there to offset the lower damage in ongoing combat I would agree.

Still very powerful for repositioning. And their optimal use is finishing a unit in a turn and hitting another next turn. Not being bogged down. This way they get the regular 1 mw 2d3 attacks plus the charge bonus.

I'd say if you are stuck in a melee where you require the shooting bonus it's almost always better to get out and hit something else that will crumple.

[BURF1]

9 minutes ago, Turragor said:

The within 3 inches shooting boost is there to offset the lower damage in ongoing combat I would agree.

Still very powerful for repositioning. And their optimal use is finishing a unit in a turn and hitting another next turn. Not being bogged down. This way they get the regular 1 mw 2d3 attacks plus the charge bonus.

I'd say if you are stuck in a melee where you require the shooting bonus it's almost always better to get out and hit something else that will crumple.

You're not super likely to be bogged down. Very few things in the game can stand up to a 4 model unit of fulminators on the charge(especially if they're within 6 inches pre charge) and almost nothing will survive the follow up shooting attack unless they healed between hits. The bigger point though is that fulminators will actually do more damage shooting+basic melee than they will with just their charge boosted melee. Obviously the most efficient way to use the fulminators is to get within 6 shoot, charge, and shoot again killing your target on the second shot so you can charge again. 

Freeing up Fulminators from inspiring presenced 40 man skeleton blocks is awesome and that's what the knight heraldor is really good, the same for scooting them around the board to get to more advantageous positions but don't try using him as a raw DPS boost for your fulminators because it doesn't mathematically work like that.

[Siegfried VII]

Ok here are my first thoughts on the information we've had so far...

I really love the diversity, the new unit choices all those new shiny artifacts, prayers, command traits etc...

 

That said I feel that some of the new units seem to underperform.

For example the Raptors. I made the mathhammer and they just not seem to be all that good. The ones with the multiple shots do an average of 2-3 wounds on a 4+ save unit which is a little worse than the 3 average of Judicators for the same points, they have 6" less range,  and even if the sit still they only do 4 damage with their increased attacks. And they are no battleline and have 4 less wounds resillience for the same points as Judicators.

The long range Raptors seem a bit better but still suffer in their own way. Their damage is 4 on average against a 4+ save unit which is better than Judicators but still at 180pts they seem to be very expensive. Their ability to gain +6 inches on their range is just bad rules design as if they move they can have a 29 inch threat range while with the ability they get 30 inch threat range gaining only 1 more inch which is close to nothing, I know that with the ability they can maintain a more safe distance but it is not a huge boon. And again they must compete with the 20pts cheaper battleline Judicators who still sport 4 more wounds resillience.

On top of that Judicators can afford to lose almost all of their unit and still be competent with their Prime wielding the Shockbolt Bow.

 

On another note the fact that it seems we lost Warrior Brotherhood, Wardens of the Realmgate and Skyborne Slayers means that the army will be significantly weaker than before. Now I like that these battalions are gone since it was tiring seeing the same list over and over again but if the new battalions are not good we'll suffer greatly on the power level.

Even Knight Azyros lost all his shine and I fear will become a bench warmer, making me also fear that the Vexillor might have lost his teleportation with the points reduction, keeping the meteor standard option only...

 

Regarding point costs of units I was hoping that we'll see a reduction in the extremis range but nothing happened. The Lord Celestant on Stardrake is still way too expensive for what he can do, the Drakesworn in a bit better position but still expensive and the Dracothian Guard remained at the same pts cost too leaving something to be desired.

My main problem is that from what we have seen so far we seem to come out there is nothing that can protect our units from mortal wounds.  The thing that hurts as more still does so with impunity. I'm not talking about blanket rules here, but at least we could have a prayer that gives a 6+ save on mortal wounds to a unit or something.

Especially units from the Extremis range suffer for this. I have seen battles were my Dracothian Guard based army (I had 10 of them) was obliterated just because my opponent had 2 Hellcannons...

 

Anyway we have lots of thing to see and discover yet with the new battalions and I do not want this post to sound like a rant as I am very excited to take up the challenge and try all kinds of lists with the new choices away from the shadow of Warrior Brotherhood but just wanted to share my first impressions from a competitive point of view...

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, Siegfried VII said:

Especially units from the Extremis range suffer for this. I have seen battles were my Dracothian Guard based army (I had 10 of them) was obliterated just because my opponent had 2 Hellcannons...

Thing is, you'd be lightning striking those guard now.

Forget charges, the breath attacks within 12" (if you have concussors) are considerable.

Add in the LCoSD who, with the simple inclusion of mount traits imo combined with lightning strike for the dracoths, is now a very interesting choice. Still dear mind you. Artillery become an absolute non-issue.

I am really going to go for a LCoSD, dracothian guard, palladors and LCoD list with Aquilor leader and vanguard hunter battleline I think. Let the shared command ability trait trigger the wound rerolls on lizards. Each (hero) mount take the -3 rend on 6s to wound. 6s to wound are d6 damage.

Could be a thing.

Something like this:

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Lord Aquilor (200)
Lord Celestant On Stardrake (600)
- Celestine Hammer
Lord Celestant On Dracoth (220)
- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield
Lord Relictor (80)

Battleline
5 x Varanguard-Hunters (140)
- Stormcast Eternals Battleline (Lord Aquilor General)
5 x Varanguard-Hunters (140)
- Stormcast Eternals Battleline (Lord Aquilor General)
5 x Varanguard-Hunters (140)
- Stormcast Eternals Battleline (Lord Aquilor General)

Units
2 x Fulminators (240)
3 x Varanguard-Palladors (220)

Total: 1980/2000

...but optimised

The LCoSD is still the real pondering point. I just want to make him work!

[Siegfried VII]

You make some good arguments regarding the Extremis Chamber but still if there is no way to improve the 3+ you risk a lot.

If you put multiple units of 2 Dracothian Guard you risk getting half of them on the table, thus giving you a disadvantage and if you opt for a big unit you risk not getting them down the crucial turn you want, thus giving you again problems.

Regarding the Lord Celestant on Stardrake I just can't justify using him at 600pts. For 20 more points other armies have an Alarielle, a much better hero and still I would't use her in a tournament. I would get past these things if only he was more powerful.

You can't have a huge expensive monster hero who can't for the life of him go toe to toe with other big nasties out there. It is anti-climatic to have my all powerful (visually and fluff-wise) Stormcast general on a huge dragon monster and be afraid to send him duel with other monsters that may even cost half his points...

I want to make him work too as I own the model, but it feels very difficult to do so, at least with the data we currently have.

[Turragor]

I think 3+ is what is needed for us to have that flexibility. Otherwise it would just be OP and that would mean restritions (basically what we had before)

I agree (and I've tested) he's not really fit for duelling the enemy's power unit or hero.

But then most of the time you don't want your best toughest unit duelling the enemy's best toughest unit, at least not alone.

I think I am gonna try and make him work. Even next big tourney I go to. Maybe I'll regret it? Maybe not.

I found at my first tournament (admittedly I was way down the tables) that he was a great focus for the enemy and very durable. I think if I took a Castellant and then was also really into targetting hordes and just plain old retreating the big guy to save him, I wouldn't have lost him each battle

To me that's the main thing. I found the LCoSD cool to play with, tough - not super strong - and actually much more flexible than that kind of big centrepiece usually is. But when the enemy brought him down it was 600 pts gone. And I always thought, "would 600pts of X have made more of a difference here?"

It's hard to know that but at the same time I think the changes we'll see might really be the simple tweaks we need to see more LCoSD's taken.

And if not, then I can for sure see someone taking a drakesworn templar and doing well.

[Rhellion]

Hammerstrike formation is now all Paladins. And can deploy closer than the 9" normal Stormcast drop (within 6" of the formation's Prosecutors... or further ythan 9" from an enemy of the Prosecutors are dead).