Pestilens Thread, tactics, builds, advice

[RoyalDachshund]

Basically, they'll end up like my BCR army? Under a soft and cozy blanket of dust?

*sigh*

And in case that I'll drop the "pure rats" in favour of 2/3 10 man marauders with Big Pappa Mark? Any good combos of rats+maggotkin that still uses big masses of rats? Did someone hear about such atrocity?

They do share the keyword Nurgle so... some magic and the "wheel o' fun" may do some good to us?

[Naflem]

13 minutes ago, RoyalDachshund said:

Basically, they'll end up like my BCR army? Under a soft and cozy blanket of dust?

*sigh*

And in case that I'll drop the "pure rats" in favour of 2/3 10 man marauders with Big Pappa Mark? Any good combos of rats+maggotkin that still uses big masses of rats? Did someone hear about such atrocity?

They do share the keyword Nurgle so... some magic and the "wheel o' fun" may do some good to us?

Yeah for sure, Glottkin buffs plus that spell that makes them do mortal wounds on a 6 buff, plus run and charge off some of the trees.  There've been some high-placed lists built around that... 

[RoyalDachshund]

I guess it's time to start my search for the spoiled cheese... 

Know any good place where to look for lists revolving around rats n filth? Maggotkin subgroup?

[Mayple]

20 minutes ago, RoyalDachshund said:

I guess it's time to start my search for the spoiled cheese... 

Know any good place where to look for lists revolving around rats n filth? Maggotkin subgroup?

As @Naflem pointed out, you could always run a Glottkin+3 token marauders (slaves, for sure. Use Flaggelant models if you want it to be fluffy ) - You could run the Glottkin as your general, or just as a support unit, but their spell is super nice to have. Even better for your rats than some of the Pestilens battalions, honsetly. Other than that, just load up on Verminlords, plague priests on foot, more plague monks than you can fit in the trunk of a car, and two-three plagueclaw catapults. The pestilens Verminlords actually get to pick Maggotkin artifacts and spells, or even some of the traits if they're your general, if I remember correctly. 

I'm also of the opinion that Pestilens Nurgle can be -better- than Nurgle Nurgle, so.. YOU SHOW THEM THE FILTH! Be prepared to flood the board in rats though. It is the skaven way. 

 

Oh, and if you want to be super cool, switch the two Glottkin riding the big one with Skaven heroes. And maybe give the big one a hell-pit abomination rat head instead of it's big ghurkface  

[RoyalDachshund]

Dear God,

on paper, this list looks... brutal and durable as heck

Allegiance: Nurgle
Plague Furnace (200)
The Glottkin (420)
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Total: 980 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 90

Guess I'll give it a spin, got most of the models, might be fun. For more points, I guess just spam plague monks so some of them would survive and fight?

[Mayple]

4 minutes ago, RoyalDachshund said:

Dear God,

on paper, this list looks... brutal and durable as heck

Allegiance: Nurgle
Plague Furnace (200)
The Glottkin (420)
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle

Total: 980 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 90

Guess I'll give it a spin, got most of the models, might be fun. For more points, I guess just spam plague monks so some of them would survive and fight?

That should sort you at at 1000 points, yes You may also consider a Verminlord instead of the Plague Furnace, but that's entirely up to you, since the prayer from the furnace is valuable as well. 

[Naflem]

52 minutes ago, Mayple said:

 

Oh, and if you want to be super cool, switch the two Glottkin riding the big one with Skaven heroes. And maybe give the big one a hell-pit abomination rat head instead of it's big ghurkface  

Thanqoul and Boneripper kitbash maybe...

[EMMachine]

On 19.3.2018 at 2:30 PM, Cerve said:

So...GA says to me that when I'm going to play, "if you army qualifies for more than once Allegiance (note that there's nothing that describe the difference between GA and A, it says only "Allegiance"), you must choose one of them".

So again. I'm building a fully Pestilens army. It has:

Chaos Allegiance

Skaven Allegiance

Pestilens Allegiance

Nurgle Allegiance

Having the Pestilens Allegiance unlock me to take Monks as Battlelines. But when I play, my army qualifies in all of these Allegiances!

The Chaos one gives me A:Chaos rules

The Skaven one gives me nothing 

The Pestilens one gives me A:Pestilens rules

The Nurgle one gives me A:Maggotkin of Nurgle.

 

 

@TheOtherJosh found actually something strange in case of Allegiances he posted in that Thread: 

 

In case of Battlelines we only need PESTILENS Allegiance (only the PESTILENS Keyword is needed)

But in case of the Allegiance Rules in the Generals Handbook 2017 and the Battalions it says SKAVEN PESTILENS  Allegiance (Both SKAVEN and PESTILENS Keyword is needed).

Now we have the point that the Verminlords don't have the SKAVEN Keyword and so the the Verminlord Corruptor can't be used in an Army that wants to use the Allegiance Rules (except the case when he is part of the "Virulent Procession" Battalion). And he can't get Command Traits or Artefacts.

I think we have something for the Errata here.

 

 

 

[TheOtherJosh]

1 hour ago, EMMachine said:

 

@TheOtherJosh found actually something strange in case of Allegiances he posted in that Thread: 

 

In case of Battlelines we only need PESTILENS Allegiance (only the PESTILENS Keyword is needed)

But in case of the Allegiance Rules in the Generals Handbook 2017 and the Battalions it says SKAVEN PESTILENS  Allegiance (Both SKAVEN and PESTILENS Keyword is needed).

Now we have the point that the Verminlords don't have the SKAVEN Keyword and so the the Verminlord Corruptor can't be used in an Army that wants to use the Allegiance Rules (except the case when he is part of the "Virulent Procession" Battalion). And he can't get Command Traits or Artefacts.

I think we have something for the Errata here.

 

There does happen to be a FAQ indicating that Verminlords lacking the SKAVEN keyword is expected. 

 From the Chaos Official FAQ and Errata v1.4

“Q: Verminlords don’t have the Skaven keyword. Is this intended?
A: Yes.”

In theory one could take a Verminlord as an Ally (when not taking the Battalions) ... but it does appear that they couldn’t take SKAVEN PESTILENS Artefacts or Command Traits. (Or be the General Of the Army.) edit: in the Battalion they could ... but they would have to take CHAOS Artefacts or Command Traits)

[EMMachine]

44 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

There does happen to be a FAQ indicating that Verminlords lacking the SKAVEN keyword is expected. 

 From the Chaos Official FAQ and Errata v1.4

“Q: Verminlords don’t have the Skaven keyword. Is this intended?
A: Yes.”

In theory one could take a Verminlord as an Ally (when not taking the Battalions) ... but it does appear that they couldn’t take SKAVEN PESTILENS Artefacts or Command Traits. (Or be the General Of the Army.) edit: in the Battalion they could ... but they would have to take CHAOS Artefacts or Command Traits)

I actually didn't meant that the Verminlord should get the SKAVEN Keyword.

The point I meant with the Errata is, why we have the difference between PESTILENS for Battleline and SKAVEN PESTILENCE for Allegiance Rules. It should be one case or the other. And the point with Ally the Vermin Lord Corruptor will only work if we based it on Keywords, the Verminlord Corrupter has the MASTERCLAN Keyword or considering that DEAMONS OF NURGLE is NURGLE now.  This part is not really clear.

[TheOtherJosh]

28 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

I actually didn't meant that the Verminlord should get the SKAVEN Keyword.

The point I meant with the Errata is, why we have the difference between PESTILENS for Battleline and SKAVEN PESTILENCE for Allegiance Rules. It should be one case or the other. And the point with Ally the Vermin Lord Corruptor will only work if we based it on Keywords, the Verminlord Corrupter has the MASTERCLAN Keyword or considering that DEAMONS OF NURGLE is NURGLE now.  This part is not really clear.

Anything with a keyword should be in a Pitched Battle List ... (based on their written description for how forces are chosen.. if that’s not the case then we need to swat GW and get them to tell us how it works.)

So for the sake of assumption, Pestilens can ally with any unit that could meet MASTERCLAN Allegiance (which means they have the keyword.)

The oddity would be that PESTILENS Allegiance, and SKAVEN PESTILENS Allegiance are two different Allegiances... as they have two different requirements.

It really seems to be rather messy. (Ie if you take PESTILENS Allegiance to get the battleline, instead of SKAVEN PESTILENS Allegiance ... can you take the SKAVEN PESTILENS Allegiance Abilities ...)

For the Verminlord one just ends up with the wonky situation that the Guardians Of Alarielle. (Basically you’re replacing Sylvaneth with Skaven Pestilens and Stormcast Eternal with Verminlord Corruptor and Order with Chaos.)

“For example, the Guardians of Alarielle warscroll battalion from Battletome: Sylvanethincludes both SYLVANETH and STORMCAST ETERNAL units, but has ‘SYLVANETH’ listed as its allegiance above the battalion’s title. This means that the Stormcast Eternal units in that battalion are considered to have the SYLVANETH allegiance when it comes to choosing the army’s allegiance, even though they do not have the SYLVANETH keyword. If this battalion is included in an army that is otherwise only made up of SYLVANETH units, it could have the ORDER or SYLVANETH allegiance, and the associated abilities. However, if the SYLVANETH allegiance is chosen, the Stormcast Eternal units from the Guardians of Alarielle battalion would not benefit from any SYLVANETH allegiance abilities because those units themselves don’t have the SYLVANETH keyword.”

[Kyriakin]

I don't have Pestilens (yet), but they are quite intruiging.

I Thoughthammered the following list:

Allegiance: Skaven Pestilens
Verminlord Corruptor (220)
- General
- Trait: Verminous Valour 
- Artefact: Liber Bubonicus 
Plague Furnace (200)
- Artefact: Vexler's Shroud 
Plague Priest with Plague Censer (80)
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades (Book, Icon and Gong)
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades (Book, Icon and Gong)
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades (Book, Icon and Gong)
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades (Book, Icon and Gong)
1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (100)
- Allies
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
- Allies
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
- Allies
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
- Allies
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
- Allies
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
- Allies
Congregation of Filth (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 400 / 400
Wounds: 207

• There would be one unit of Plague Monks who stays close to protect the Verminlord Corruptor general (i.e. his own personal bodyguard for Verminous Valour's 4+ Look Out Sir!) and they would receive his Gouge-tear their eyes! extra attack (although other monk units may also be in range of this).  Liber Bubonicus gives the Verminlord prayers to go with his magic, and therefore provides more chance of getting Great Plagues (especially a Turn 1 Neverplague for 2+ prayers for the rest of the game).

• The Congregation of Filth would obviously stay together as a somewhat cohesive unit, where the both units of Plague Monks get Fanatical Zealotry (i.e. re-roll charges) and the Plague Altar 6+ t-shirt save. Plus, you obviously have the Pushed into Battle benefits (i.e. increased furnace movement and 2D6 wheel/spike attacks), as well as the Icon of the Horned Rat (i.e. increase bravery from 5 to 6) benefit for the monks. Finally, Vexler's Shroud means -1 to hit for shooting attacks against the furnace.

• The final Plague Monk unit goes off with the Warp Grinder team to an objective, or wherever.

In general, I prefer the double Foetid Blades (i.e. re-roll failed hits), and having one universal weapon type means one less thing to have to remember. Icon of Pestilence (i.e. 6+ MW death explosion) over the banner every time, and the Doom Gong (i.e -1" for enemy run and charge) seems like the better option in an army that needs to be getting the first swings in as much as possible. As for the book vs. the scroll, I don't care really, but prefer the model for the Book of Woes (i.e. one-time 4+ MW for each unit within 13" - but is it just enemy units, or friendly units too?).

By the way, has anyone made themed cards or counters for this army? It seems like they might be useful, as half the challenge here seems to be remembering all the rules. For example, I think you could easily forget the ongoing effect of, say, the Crimsonweal Curse great plague in future turns, etc.

Perhaps this is an army that should be fundamentally learned at 1000 points first, before adding more layers at 2000?

[Umjammerlama]

31 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

 

Perhaps this is an army that should be fundamentally learned at 1000 points first, before adding more layers at 2000?

What would you have in a 1000 points list?

[Kyriakin]

2 hours ago, Umjammerlama said:

What would you have in a 1000 points list?

Well, I am a complete noob with this faction. In fact, I might not ever even buy them, but as a Darkling Covens player I don't get to experience proper list-building very often!

Maybe something like this?

Allegiance: Skaven Pestilens
Plague Furnace (200)
- General
- Trait: Verminous Valour 
- Artefact: Vexler's Shroud 
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades (Book, Icon and Gong)
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades (Book, Icon and Gong)
3 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (180)
- Allies
Congregation of Filth (140)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 180 / 200
Wounds: 101

• This two-drop list removes some layers of complexity, such as the Verminlord (i.e. his command ability, magic, combat special rules, etc.) and the Pestilant Prayers (i.e. due to not including regular Plague Priest, and rejecting Master of Rot & Ruin and Liber Bubonicus in favour of defensive add-ons for the furnace).

• However, I still get to learn the bloated Plague Monk warscroll (i.e. twin blades, book, icon and gong), their vanilla relationship with the furnace (i.e. bravery buff, 2D6 attacks and extra movement) and further monk-furnace synergies arising from the battalion (i.e. t-shirt saves and re-rolling charges), as well as the Noxious Prayers.

• Despite wasting 40 points, I think dropping two PWM teams in favour of a regular Plague Priest with Vexler's Shroud (furnace then takes Liber Bubonicus) is technically better at 1000 points. However, I think this risks overloading a noob like me with an increased number of prayer casters, prayer types and great prayers.

• If it's a heavily objective-based game, this 1000-point list will struggle as it's basically one big, impenetrable blob of internal buffing. In such cases, I might instead be forced to split the monks into smaller units and perhaps even consider a warpgrinder.

My most fundamental rule would be to always try to take Plague Monks in units of 40. The +2/10 battleshock bravery Allegiance Ability, re-rolling charges for 20+ (assuming I take the CofF battalion) and horde savings just seem to heavily favour it.

I would also try to simplify things by basically ignoring Plague Censer Bearers, Plagueclaws, PM Scrolls, PM Banners, PM Chimes and all of the remaining battalions - even at 2000 points.

[TheOtherJosh]

36 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

Verminlord Corruptor (220)
- General
- Trait: Verminous Valour 
- Artefact: Liber Bubonicus 

I’m “reasonably sure” that SKAVEN PESTILENS should just be PESTILENS ... but ...

Technically ... the Verminlord Corruptor doesn’t qualify for the SKAVEN PESTILENS Allegiance Battle Traits because they can’t meet the SKAVEN keyword. (And that was FAQ’d as expected that they don’t have the SKAVEN keyword.)

They can meet the PESTILENS, which allows you to do the Plague Monks as battleline.

But you’d have to have them as an Ally unless you brought along the Virulent Procession Warscroll Battalion.

[Kyriakin]

3 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

I’m “reasonably sure” that SKAVEN PESTILENS should just be PESTILENS ... but ...

Technically ... the Verminlord Corruptor doesn’t qualify for the SKAVEN PESTILENS Allegiance Battle Traits because they can’t meet the SKAVEN keyword. (And that was FAQ’d as expected that they don’t have the SKAVEN keyword.)

They can meet the PESTILENS, which allows you to do the Plague Monks as battleline.

But you’d have to have them as an Ally unless you brought along the Virulent Procession Warscroll Battalion.

Yea, I saw bits of some KEYWORD lawyering argument all over this thread, but it kinda went over my head.

Hopefully, it's something that GW puts to rest in AOS2 or GHB2018.

[yarrickson]

I'd ignore this particular  piece of keyword lawyering as its patent nonsense. 

The Battletome is called Skaven Pestilens. The Verminlord is in the battletome. 

Warscroll Builder let's you take the Pestilens traits/items. (Not infallible but a great indicator)

The question about Verminlords in the FAQ is ancient and, as I recall, was asked because folk wanted to skitterleap them. 

This reads like the Ironjaws/Ironjawz issue all over again. That was nonsense too. 

[Kyriakin]

Re: Foulrain Congregation

I can see specific cases where it would still be absolutely worth it (e.g. versus Executioner-heavy Darkling Covens armies), but I wonder if 4dChan is generally right to say it will rarely ever earn its 820 (priest) or 940 (furnace) points back.

If there was a way to make each Plagueclaw 2+R/2+R, I might still be in as that is some serious killing power at -2Rend/2D6:

2+ to Hit: Targeting a unit of 10-or-more, obviously.

Re-roll Hits: Foulrain Congregation ability (assuming 2+ was achieved on first shot).

2+ to Wound: Foulrain Congregation ability if Plague Priest is within 13" (i.e. maybe use the 12-wound furnace priest for the battalion, as he is more likely to survive).

*** There are obviously also debuff options for this, such as Wither (pestilent prayer) ***

Re-roll Wounds:  This is the awkward one.  Architect of Death is obviously the intended answer, but it is a Command Trait and not an artefact. This means that you must make your battalion priest the general (another reason to go for the furnace), which loses the Verminlord's command ability and wastes Inspiring Presence in the backfield.

*** Unfortunately, the Blessed with Filth (noxious prayer) affects only a single unit and each Plagueclaw is a separate entity. However, it might be an option to make the most important shot a more sure thing, if the Architect of Death is a no-go ***

Any other options? I haven't looked at Nurgle yet, and would obviously have loads of allies points still available.

[HorseOnABeachBall]

Definitely ignore the 'Verminlord is not pestilens argument'. Seems like more of a theoretical argument to me.

 

[Tali182]

On 4/16/2018 at 9:48 PM, Kyriakin said:

 

• The Congregation of Filth would obviously stay together as a somewhat cohesive unit, where the both units of Plague Monks get Fanatical Zealotry (i.e. re-roll charges) and the Plague Altar 6+ t-shirt save. Plus, you obviously have the Pushed into Battle benefits (i.e. increased furnace movement and 2D6 wheel/spike attacks), as well as the Icon of the Horned Rat (i.e. increase bravery from 5 to 6) benefit for the monks. Finally, Vexler's Shroud means -1 to hit for shooting attacks against the furnace.

Icon of Pestilence (i.e. 6+ MW death explosion) over the banner every time, and the Doom Gong (i.e -1" for enemy run and charge) seems like the better option in an army that needs to be getting the first swings in as much as possible. As for the book vs. the scroll, I don't care really, but prefer the model for the Book of Woes (i.e. one-time 4+ MW for each unit within 13" - but is it just enemy units, or friendly units too?).

 

If i am reading your post correctly (forgive me if I am not ) I should point out a few handy corrections to your understanding:

• from memory Congregation of filth is 2+ units of plague monks (don't have the battletome in front of me), so take them all in the formation for less drops
• You can take both banners and instruments in units (in fact plague monks is specifically referenced in the FAQ for this)

 

 

 

[SkavenInAZ]

Oh hai.  Long time follower, recent lurker.  I don't play a lot of AoS, if you've seen me before =)

I'm about to acquire something along the lines of 160 Plague Monks, a Deceiver, a 3rd PCC, and some other fixings to add on to my already 30,000 (WHFB) points or so of Skaven.  This should allow me to run just about any Pestilens army I want.  I'm going to go do a demo game here in a week or so (likely against the new seafood) and want to come up with a solid list to play.

Assuming I know nothing (safe assumption), would someone give me some suggestions on what to run?

[Darigandevil]

9 hours ago, SkavenInAZ said:

my already 30,000 (WHFB) points or so of Skaven. 

Please tell me you didnt accidently high the 0 button too many times there?

Please link pictures of your collection!

[Mayple]

@SkavenInAZ does my memory serve me correctly in thinking you're the go-to warhammer fantasy Skaven person who may or may not be on youtube? Good to have you on board do feel free to share your potentially enormous collection!

[GrandMa]

@SkavenInAZ

The list I have assembled for the upcoming tournaments is below.
Idea is quite simple, Spam MW with priests and verminlords, screen with 2 units of monks, counter charge with the 3rd.
Last 10 man squad is a bit of a flexer. Hopefully I can keep all 130 monks within distance of the furnace, for the 6+ invul save.

Gutter Runners and Jezzails is there to pick on key targets in opponents army.

Please let me know if anyone has any thoughts, list is based upon some plays with pestilence, but not competitive.

1990 points, 400 allies

Leaders

• Verminlord Corruptor (220)
• Plague Furnace (200)
• Plague Priest with Plague Censer (80)
• Plague Priest with Plague Censer (80)
• Plague Priest with Warpstone-tipped Staff (80)

Units

• 10 x Plague Monks (70)
  Foetid Blades
• 40 x Plague Monks (240)
  Foetid Blades
• 40 x Plague Monks (240)
  Foetid Blades
• 40 x Plague Monks (240)
  Woe-stave
• 10 x Gutter Runners (120)
• 6 x Warplock Jezzails (280)

Battalions
Congregation of Filth (140)

 

 

[TheOtherJosh]

@GrandMa

The plague furnace is a beast in close combat... but needs to get there (and monks can be brutal on the charge). Alternate Artillery options would be the Plagueclaws... but taking a second furnace means that you have two solid units brutalizing the enemy... and multiple targets for them to deal with (not just a shoot out the plaguefurnace, shoot the verminlord ... done)

Allegiance: Pestilens

Leaders
Verminlord Corruptor (220)
Plague Furnace (200)
Plague Priest with Plague Censer (80)
Plague Priest with Warpstone-tipped Staff(80)
Plague Furnace (200)

Battleline
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades

Battalions
Congregation of Filth (140)
Congregation of Filth (140)
Virulent Procession (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 166
 

Two furnaces give you more options for spreading out and getting them into place. And additional support for your Verminlord from the Virulent Procession and hands out mortal wounds ... 

Alternately:

Allegiance: Pestilens

Leaders
Verminlord Corruptor (220)
Plague Furnace (200)
Plague Priest with Plague Censer (80)

Battleline
20 x Plague Monks (140)
- Foetid Blades
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades
40 x Plague Monks (240)
- Foetid Blades

War Machines
Plagueclaw (180)
Plagueclaw (180)
Plagueclaw (180)

Battalions
Congregation of Filth (140)
Foulrain Congregation (200)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 147