One thing that's nagging at me.

[Ollie Grimwood]

@Menkeroth I certainly agree that AoS has far more narrative than either 40K or WFB did at the same point. However it’s not the amount that I think may be the issue but rather the rapidly developing nature of it. 

AoS Narrative is evolving very quickly at this point and I don’t think GW will licence it until it’s settled somewhat. I suppose they could licence out the Realmgate Wars narrative as that is now set.   I suspect if nothing else they’ll be quite cautious of developers blurring the definition between the two settings and adding too much WFB to an AoS licence. 

On the slight tangent of Dark Omen when its precursor Shadow of the Horned Rat was released WFB was about 12 years old and was onto its 4th Edition. 

Warhammer Quest 2 is already out on Apple, it’s set in the End Times 

[Menkeroth]

22 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

However it’s not the amount that I think may be the issue but rather the rapidly developing nature of it. 

Well, it seems it has slowed its pace down for now, especially with the GW's attention elsewhere, so from now on it's possible GW will develop the setting much more slower, I don't expect now more new stuff

23 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

I suppose they could licence out the Realmgate Wars narrative as that is now set.  

Yes, it's a good choice for a game - the campaign has ended and has lots of content, so one could, for instance, make a game where you either go through all the events or expand upon them (like LotR: War in the North). 

25 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

I suspect if nothing else they’ll be quite cautious of developers blurring the definition between the two settings and adding too much WFB to an AoS licence. 

Surely, it's an important point. I do hope that if they ever release games for AoS, the border between it, FB and 40k will not be crossed.

25 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

On the slight tangent of Dark Omen when its precursor Shadow of the Horned Rat was released WFB was about 12 years old and was onto its 4th Edition. 

 

Yes, but it was still quite not that developed and / or known and popular, and both games are great and have lots of fans even today, despite their age. Ah, golden times it were...

26 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

Warhammer Quest 2 is already out on Apple, it’s set in the End Times 

True! I have forgotten this, although my friend told me that earlier. Thanks! I hope they fixed old problems of the first game.

[Carnelian]

1 hour ago, Menkeroth said:

Yes, but it was still quite not that developed and / or known and popular

I disagdee - WFB was undoubtedly well developed in 1998 when Dark Omen was released and pretty well known too and was the major player in table top gaming. There were games workshop stores and independent gaming clubs all across the uk. 

[Menkeroth]

UK is not the whole world, you know. And it still does not make it popular or really well known, in contrast to 40k.

[Menkeroth]

Something like this. What could have they said otherwise? America, for instance, is a much larger market and there WHFB was always just one of many, and in the latest years before the Apocalypse it was dealt a severe blow by the X-Wing and Warmachine. In contrast to this, in the CIS and especially Russia WHFB was one of the strongest all the time, mostly during the 7th-8th edition (only a few people ever know about it earlier incarnations and how different they were from the 7th-8th ones), although its positions also suffered quite remarkably with the rise of the things like Infinity, Warmachine, Malifaux and the like. In contrast to 40k, actually.

[PlasticCraic]

On 11/12/2017 at 3:15 PM, Chikout said:

On top of that you have the fact that many video game developers are based in America where AOS is less popular. 

 

Potentially going off on a tangent here, but is that true?  If so I didn't realise.  My only real knowledge of the US scene comes from Garagehammer, T3 and interacting with various Americans on Twitter and FB.  Which obviously is an echo chamber, because it's fans listening to other fans, but still all I really knew was that there is definitely some real enthusiasm out there - I didn't know how confined it was.  Does it all still go back to the big split?

AOS is hugely popular here in Australia, if anyone was wondering 

[BunkhouseBuster]

30 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Potentially going off on a tangent here, but is that true?  If so I didn't realise.  My only real knowledge of the US scene comes from Garagehammer, T3 and interacting with various Americans on Twitter and FB.  Which obviously is an echo chamber, because it's fans listening to other fans, but still all I really knew was that there is definitely some real enthusiasm out there - I didn't know how confined it was.  Does it all still go back to the big split?

AOS is hugely popular here in Australia, if anyone was wondering 

There is plenty of enthusiasm in the USA for AoS.  The problem lies with some isolation issues that you get when living 45 minutes away from the closest FLGS , 90 minutes from the closest actual GW store, and nearly 3 hours away from another FLGS that actually has AoS leagues and tournaments on occasion.  Combine that with some elitist attitudes on AoS from Warmahordes fanboys (who cannot see PrivateerPress ever doing wrong nor GW every thing anything right), WHFB Old Guard (who begrudgingly admit that the new GW is nice, the models are awesome, but it's not the rank-and-file game they love), and an overly-competitive 40K scene (one of the top 3 40K players in the USA plays at the local monthly tournaments nearby).

AoS isn't dead in my area, it's just small.

... And by my area, I mean the entire state of Missouri, and I live near the dead center of it.

... And by small, I mean just 5 regular players.

... And by regular players, I include irregular players too.

To be an AoS player in mid-Missouri, it requires a bit more dedication.  I happen to work in the same town as my (closest) FLGS, which is about 45 minutes from home.  I can spare a night or two a month getting in games there, but that's about it.  Here lately, I've been staying home and painting more so, but with the holidays coming up and the family and relatives we have to deal with, my time may shrink even further for the next couple months.

There are some good scenes for AoS though.  The GW in Chesterfield, MO (90 minutes away for me), is always happy for AoS players, and tries to host various events every so often, and then Meta-games Unlimited in Springfield, MO (3 hours away for me, one-way), just had an AoS tournament recently, and has a healthy group of local players that meets every weekend.  Really, it's just a matter of luck and circumstance that I don't live any closer to either location.  Thankfully, my wife and step-daughter have an interest in tabletop gaming, so there is a possibility to start our own familial gaming club at home (if I can ever get them off of World of Warcraft, that is).

There are plenty of players for other games though.  There is a huge 40K crowd, there was a large Warmahordes group that met regularly (I don't know if they still do or not), plenty of players who still play WHFB on a semi-regular basis, and many more (Dropzone, Bolt Action, Flames of War, Dark Age, and others).

[Carnelian]

14 hours ago, Menkeroth said:

UK is not the whole world, you know. And it still does not make it popular or really well known, in contrast to 40k.

You must be intentionally misunderstanding my point. The comparison is not between old whfb and 40k but between how established the brand of old whfb was at the time that Dark Omen was released and how established the brand of AoS is know

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ Mod Hat On +++

Just been reading through some of the replies in this thread and some of you need to have a think about how to reply to this topic as it's coming across as very rude. This is not the sort of enviroment we want here on TGA, so please play nice!

+++ Mod Hat Off +++

Personally, we could see an Age of Sigmar game of some sorts in the future but GW already have quite a few computer games out at the moment and I imagine it's a lot of work to manage all of that. Also as the background for Age of Sigmar is still developing and coming up to some quite big stuff for next year, its tricky to tie that into a computer game and have it released in a very competitive market.

[Menkeroth]

5 hours ago, Carnelian said:

You must be intentionally misunderstanding my point. The comparison is not between old whfb and 40k but between how established the brand of old whfb was at the time that Dark Omen was released and how established the brand of AoS is know

I was not comparing them, my point is that WHFB never was that popular or well-known (but I agree with it being well established at the time), and yet it was not a problem to release games for it, different games in different times.

[MOMUS]

7 hours ago, Menkeroth said:

my point is that WHFB never was that popular or well-known (but I agree with it being well established at the time), and yet it was not a problem to release games for it, different games in different times.

? WHFB was hugely popular...

That's said, it being popular or well known isn't the only contributing factor to a developer making a game. The turned based, geometric movement, strict distances etc I imagine made it a very easy sell to port over to a computer game even though technology back then was not what it is now. I don't think AoS fits into a box quite as easy.

[Menkeroth]

2 hours ago, MOMUS said:

? WHFB was hugely popular...

 

No, not really, especially in America, Japan or CIS (Russia and Ukraine mostly). 40k - yes, WHFB was overshadowed to an extent by the rise of Infinity, Warmachine (especially in America), X-wing, Malifaux and the like.

3 hours ago, MOMUS said:

That's said, it being popular or well known isn't the only contributing factor to a developer making a game. The turned based, geometric movement, strict distances etc I imagine made it a very easy sell to port over to a computer game even though technology back then was not what it is now. I don't think AoS fits into a box quite as easy.

It can be put into this scheme depending on the concept. I'd imagine something like Warlock 2 or Civilization, for instance, or Fantasy General. Why not?

[Killax]

I find the initial idea very interesting. I don't think licencing has to do anything with the succes of a particular product at all. Lord of the Rings is a great example of this and so is Star Trek for example. Just because certain media do it more as others usually doesn't say much about the quality of work or succes of the product.

In any case though I'm sure Age of Sigmar will eventually develop into different paths aswell but only the moment there is enough to create  a game about. As confirmed by the writers themselves the universe of Age of Sigmar is not fleshed out as much as the other universes of Games Workshop are. Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40.000 are/where much older games also so this is logical.

I think there are also many reasons as to why Warhammer Fantasy Battles eventually burned out, but that's not really the subject of the initial topic. Age of Sigmar will continue to grow, it will not just remove the past of WFB or rise to 40K status is one year or three. 

[Menkeroth]

56 minutes ago, Killax said:

As confirmed by the writers themselves the universe of Age of Sigmar is not fleshed out as much as the other universes of Games Workshop are.

They are just pure Captains Obvious, if they say this. Who could have thought, ha?  3 years vs 20+...hm... they are geniuses. Really.

58 minutes ago, Killax said:

Age of Sigmar will continue to grow, it will not just remove the past of WFB or rise to 40K status is one year or three. 

of course, because the setting develops itself constantly, if it stops it dies. Nothing can claim it has done all and can just sit and relax, anything must always go forward, that's why there can never be complete settings. In this regard, say, Blizzard were much more clever than the GW...

 

[Killax]

41 minutes ago, Menkeroth said:

They are just pure Captains Obvious, if they say this. Who could have thought, ha?  3 years vs 20+...hm... they are geniuses. Really.

of course, because the setting develops itself constantly, if it stops it dies. Nothing can claim it has done all and can just sit and relax, anything must always go forward, that's why there can never be complete settings. In this regard, say, Blizzard were much more clever than the GW...

 

They are but a lot of fans or interested people don't think this is too Obvious. A larger part of this comes from not understanding why WFB was removed, another part is that GW never really gave any official statement as to why they did away with the game. It was a logical follow up but still not too logical for all, or so it seems.

The cool thing about Blizzard is that they are directly influenced by WFB and 40K, there is even a wonderful article on the first Blizzard games being actually designed with Warhammer in mind. What we indeed do see is that somewhere around 6th edition GW chose to stagnate all lore progression in WFB and before that the trend arrised in 40K. In retrospect I think this wasn't as much of a cool idea to do as it seemed at the time  As time progressed, Blizzard continued expanding their realms broadly and GW basically went really deep in what we knew.

In any case though, I think a collab between the two now isn't even out of the question but it's an unlikely one offcourse.

[Menkeroth]

2 minutes ago, Killax said:

They are but a lot of fans or interested people don't think this is too Obvious. A larger part of this comes from not understanding why WFB was removed, another part is that GW never really gave any official statement as to why they did away with the game. It was a logical follow up but still not too logical for all, or so it seems.

Of course, but I was more about the fact that 3 years old franchise can not be compared with the 20+ years old, so those authors were Captains

3 minutes ago, Killax said:

The cool thing about Blizzard is that they are directly influenced by WFB and 40K, there is even a wonderful article on the first Blizzard games being actually designed with Warhammer in mind. What we indeed do see is that somewhere around 6th edition GW chose to stagnate all lore progression in WFB and before that the trend arrised in 40K. In retrospect I think this wasn't as much of a cool idea to do as it seemed at the time  As time progressed, Blizzard continued expanding their realms broadly and GW basically went really deep in what we knew.

To be more precise,they were willing to release a game in WH but GW in the end didn't give them the license and so Blizzard developed their own game in their own setting. Which is quite cool in its own right, I'd say  and you are right, of course, that GW should have not chosen the stagnation, for every setting must ever draw forward, this is the death sentence. 

[Sheriff]

Blizzard aced the whole "separate realms" thing. You walk from one region or realm into another and its instantly like 'Ooooooohhhhh pretty!' and you really get to know each zone as you do quests etc. Even in Burning Crusade (which seems to be the most AOS-style realm-collection) it didn't feel weird, it just kinda worked. 

[Killax]

50 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Blizzard aced the whole "separate realms" thing. You walk from one region or realm into another and its instantly like 'Ooooooohhhhh pretty!' and you really get to know each zone as you do quests etc. Even in Burning Crusade (which seems to be the most AOS-style realm-collection) it didn't feel weird, it just kinda worked. 

Yeah I really hate the fact that Realmgates are currently not really a part of the game anymore in GH2017. I think they should pick up that part more and make it a consistent factor in the game. We have quite a lot of armies who can deep strike but it offers this abilities to armies who cannot. Basically every form of transportation would add a very interesting dimension to Age of Sigmar because we have narrative confirmation it's there. It's also very well reflected in almost all books on some kind of artwork.

[Uveron]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

Yeah I really hate the fact that Realmgates are currently not really a part of the game anymore in GH2017. I think they should pick up that part more and make it a consistent factor in the game. We have quite a lot of armies who can deep strike but it offers this abilities to armies who cannot. Basically every form of transportation would add a very interesting dimension to Age of Sigmar because we have narrative confirmation it's there. It's also very well reflected in almost all books on some kind of artwork.

What would love is for the ability for any army to purches Terrane as part of the list. I would gladly spend 250pts on a Realmgate! But to the Point of this thread. 

 

One thing that I havent seen mentioned (Sorry if I have missed it), is that the Gaming industry has changed alot since the days of Dark Omen, and Shadow of the Horned Rat.  Games these days built at that budget are for the mobile and, when you get to that type of game 40K is just a better brand for tacking on to some prebuilt system to use as a theme.  The Bigger Larger games (Total War) have a development time that puts AOS back in the darker early days.  I think we can maybe 'concerned' if we havent seen anything in 2 or 3 more years. 

[BunkhouseBuster]

1 hour ago, Uveron said:

2 hours ago, Killax said:

Yeah I really hate the fact that Realmgates are currently not really a part of the game anymore in GH2017. I think they should pick up that part more and make it a consistent factor in the game. We have quite a lot of armies who can deep strike but it offers this abilities to armies who cannot. Basically every form of transportation would add a very interesting dimension to Age of Sigmar because we have narrative confirmation it's there. It's also very well reflected in almost all books on some kind of artwork.

What would love is for the ability for any army to purches Terrane as part of the list. I would gladly spend 250pts on a Realmgate! But to the Point of this thread.

*cough*Ironjawz*cough*new*cough*battalion*cough*

[Uveron]

3 minutes ago, BunkhouseBuster said:

*cough*Ironjawz*cough*new*cough*battalion*cough*

Well Yes, but I also would like to be able to get parts of the Chaos Dreadhold for my Chaos stuff... (Though I think the Dreadhold is about to be a forgotten thing soon)

[BunkhouseBuster]

9 minutes ago, Uveron said:

Well Yes, but I also would like to be able to get parts of the Chaos Dreadhold for my Chaos stuff... (Though I think the Dreadhold is about to be a forgotten thing soon)

Oh, I completely understand.  Why is it that Sylvaneth, and now Ironjaws (and Brayherds, sort of) are the only armies to get terrain to add into the game?  Granted, Open and Narrative Play don't have such restrictions, but it would be awesome to see terrain make a bigger part of an army.

If 40K can get Fortifications, why can't AoS?

[Uveron]

Just now, BunkhouseBuster said:

Oh, I completely understand.  Why is it that Sylvaneth, and now Ironjaws (and Brayherds, sort of) are the only armies to get terrain to add into the game?  Granted, Open and Narrative Play don't have such restrictions, but it would be awesome to see terrain make a bigger part of an army.

If 40K can get Fortifications, why can't AoS?

This is getting way of topic.... BUT! 

Back when GHB17 was put out, Jervis Jonson said alot of the stuff that's not match play, can be seen as them testing stuff for future supplements. (Like Path to Glory with GHB16)  So what I hope is that in the new year we see a Seige book, that includes points for things... (and it would go along side the talked about new buildings that are supposedly on the way) 

[Sheriff]

Give us any walls to seige and WE'LL SMASH 'EM, LADS. 

[Menkeroth]

And for the spiders to climb them over like they do with the usual terrain