customize your shadespire

[Killax]

In most cases weapon and head swaps will do for me. The only thing that can get confusing is if a torso for example totally changes. In general though I do think some conversions are not only very possible but even cheered upon by the regular community. As is mentioned in the document, you also want to make your Warband stand out somewhat from the rest of the competition. This means that usually showing up with unpainted models is not the smartest move.
I feel that this topic in particular is a good example of conversions you can see, like and do not really confuse anyone. 

Where I completely agree upon is that Hakka and Basha need to be visually different for your opponent. However my whole plan on them is very simple and in my opinion very easy for an opponent to visualize also.
- Hakka will have slicing/chopping weapons. Knifes work, choppa's work, an axe can be in there. 
- Basha will have blunt/hammering weapons. Hammers work, mace's work, a flail could be in there.

Basically I think any weapon swap of the same type of weapon will not present any issue. Headswaps won't present any issue. Leg or arm swaps won't present any issue. However torso swaps and completely changing the dynamic pose of the model will present an issue as at that moment it's quite like we arn't working with the core of a Warhammer Underworls Warband model. Even then I'm not opposed to it but could see why a Tournament Organizer would be.

Last but not least, just ask locally, in most cases your cool.

[Sleboda]

5 hours ago, Killax said:

wever torso swaps and completely changing the dynamic pose of the model will present an issue as at that moment it's quite like we arn't working with the core of a Warhammer Underworls Warband model.

As it stands now, I sometimes mess up when identifying between the two Petitioners that not not crawling out of the floor. It is only their pose on the table matching the pose pictured on the card that differentiates them. If one has a wound or an upgrade, you and your opponent need to be able to make the match.  If you change the pose of them, they no longer match the cards and that would make for an extra layer/mental burden and could very easily lead to moments like "Oh, shoot, yeah, it's the other petitioner that was wounded.  Sorry you based your plan off of attacking the wrong model."

We really need to avoid that, and as cool as conversions can be, if they do anything to confuse the situation, then they are unwelcome.

I know in Warhammer, players offer to put a little sign next to a unit indicating what is "really" is (a practice I both appreciate and abhor), but these extra marking or elements to the game truly have no place in this game or any fast-paced competitive game.

Petitioners might be the best example currently, but even the blooddudes have some similar looking guys that if it were not for the pose helping me identify them, I'd have trouble. I bet others will come as well.

[Killax]

Well if you want to be 100% certain youd need to write down names on bases.

Frankly speaking its up to the player who converted the models to inform his opponent well. First though discuss it with the TO.

[Goblin-King]

4 hours ago, Sleboda said:

As it stands now, I sometimes mess up when identifying between the two Petitioners that not not crawling out of the floor. It is only their pose on the table matching the pose pictured on the card that differentiates them. 

Actually I find a lot of the models hard to match up with the card art at a glance.

This is one of the few points where I'm almost shocked at the design decisions... 
Why aren't the characters much more distinct? Sure, I'm not blind. I can see who is who, but in a game where every model is literally a specific character, why not add more character to them? Most really just look like they came straight out of the corresponding AoS unit.
Also why haven't they put much more emphasis on reflecting the models in the artwork? Like their weapons are often barely in the art.

[TheTrans]

Hey gang,

Converted up a proxy trio for the SCE crew. Made them VC Blood Dragons...oh...I mean.... 'Soul Blight Dragon Warriors'.. **vom**

Now I've seen the whole arguments about converting and what not in the malifaux scene and the end result came down to 'ask your opponent if unsure'. 

I feel if you have trouble keeping track of 3-7 models you probably shouldn't be playing the game. But I will agree on the the other side of the argument the models should have something about the 'core' model about them. As such I have a chick with a shield (Brightside or what ever her name is), Massive dude with a hammer (Obryn) and a pretty calm looking bloke with a helmet crest and a sword (Steel Heart).

Also would love to know your thoughts (I didn't sculpt all of them them, it is a liquid greenstuff wash to neaten up any transitions and conversions).

 

Cheers,

Nick
 

[Sleboda]

4 hours ago, Killax said:

Well if you want to be 100% certain youd need to write down names on bases.

Frankly speaking its up to the player who converted the models to inform his opponent well. First though discuss it with the TO.

To be 100% certain, just don't modify the game piece to make it different from the one that came in the game and matches the card art.

The models already inform the opponent. Changing the models is a deliberate step away from informing the opponent.

[Sleboda]

4 minutes ago, TheTrans said:

I feel if you have trouble keeping track of 3-7 models you probably shouldn't be playing the game.

 That's not fair.  Whether you meant it or not, your statement is basically saying "if you can't allow me to do something outside of the game that makes it harder on you,  you're not smart enough to play. "

 

Super uncool.

[TheTrans]

I'm just saying mate, to limit peoples creativity in what is a miniatures game under the guise of them possibly trying to garner an unfair advantage due to modeling is pretty incendiary. 

I played a game last night with the Khorne band, all stock standard. The amount of squinting at the tiny (and they are TINY) card portraits then back up to a variety of models that are all swinging an axe of some description, wasn't a walk in the park.

Also as an aside, I don't think the card art matches stuff very well at all, the tiny pic of the miniature does..but that really is so damn small. So unless you have a set of cards for your opponents crew, or are grabbing it every minute to have a look, I feel it is a pretty moot point. What about if they edit the image on their card. So when you look at the card from across the table it matches their converted/proxy miniatures?

If you have trouble identifying an opponents converted model, all one needs to do is say "sorry mate, which model is that again?". Any normal human will happily and promptly tell you which model it is. If you are worried about showing a 'tell' as I've seen other people argue. Ask about 2 or 3 models... which at that point you've asked about the entire warband...

I find it really funny in 40k and AoS (and WHFB) tournaments, when there can be 100's of models on the board, that people generally don't mind conversions (and proxies within reason) and if people are unsure what a model is in that game, guess what they do ;)...

[Mr. White]

Also, I would add that this is a thread about customizing your copy of Shadespire. If one isn't into customization...perhaps this shouldn't be a thread of interests.

To the point of customization and competitiveness though....I don't get the impression players here are customizing to dupe their opponent. I know I've made modifications to my Shadespire bloodreavers simply to thematically match my AoS army. It only made sense to me.

I've played in WFB tourneys with converted models...no issue. I've played BB tourneys for decades, sometimes where entire teams were customized or 'counts as'...I could still sort out the 11 figures. I hope my opponent can handle 5. Besides, all they have to do is ask. I'm not trying to pull a quick one.

[Sleboda]

2 hours ago, Mr. White said:

his is a thread about customizing your copy of Shadespire. If one isn't into customization...perhaps this shouldn't be a thread of interests.

Or, you know, if the thread is about discussing customization and does not specify that it is PRO only, then mabye ANTI is fitting as well?

Also, in BB, it s a loooooot less specific by model and models cannot take wounds.  Very diff.

[zabbraxas]

from what i see so far I think if your conversion make sence (basicly if you play stormcast and you got one dude with a big fat weapon and an other with a shield i assume they are brightshield and obryn even if it's wear by goblin)  it's good, as long as the TO is ok with that and most importantly if your oponent is ok to.

*Anecdote time* In a game i make this week end my opponent thanks me to take the "classic" model for my Undead band in spare of my customised, because he didn't know the guard well and want to become accustomed to the different character. After that I did not dare tell him i take both for normal and inspired version but you see my point

[Killax]

6 hours ago, TheTrans said:

Hey gang,

Converted up a proxy trio for the SCE crew. Made them VC Blood Dragons...oh...I mean.... 'Soul Blight Dragon Warriors'.. **vom**

Now I've seen the whole arguments about converting and what not in the malifaux scene and the end result came down to 'ask your opponent if unsure'. 

I feel if you have trouble keeping track of 3-7 models you probably shouldn't be playing the game. But I will agree on the the other side of the argument the models should have something about the 'core' model about them. As such I have a chick with a shield (Brightside or what ever her name is), Massive dude with a hammer (Obryn) and a pretty calm looking bloke with a helmet crest and a sword (Steel Heart).

Also would love to know your thoughts (I didn't sculpt all of them them, it is a liquid greenstuff wash to neaten up any transitions and conversions).

 

Cheers,

Nick
 

Had seen these models on Facebook too! As said there, they look awesome. Looking very much forward to the painted result too  As you said if someone is unable to track 7 different models and unable to ask your opponent then and only then issues arrise.

In general this discussion about it being right or wrong is also completely moot. Because it's not a group of people who decide what's allowed. I know my local GW TO loves the conversions, I am almost certain most GW TO's will like it, just inform them and let them make the judgement. Without doubt this is an opinion but it's the only one that matters if someone wants to have heavily converted models at a tournament. 

As below, several card arts are different and do not match the models, even knowing which Petitioner is which can be done quite easily the moment a player asks. 

6 hours ago, Sleboda said:

To be 100% certain, just don't modify the game piece to make it different from the one that came in the game and matches the card art.

Feel free to send GW some angry emails then because several models do not match the card art. The more promo's are added the less likely the models will match card arts.

Just look at Core Set Steelheart. He doesn't look like his art: 

[Sleboda]

What? Other than his hair, he totally looks like the model.

 

On the greenstuff models -

(First off - totally cool!)

The Steelheart model ha s a shield. Confusing.

The Obryn model has  one handed hammer. Confusing.

Which model is which? Out of the three models, the only thing I can say for sure is that none of them is Steelheart (no matter how cool they are - and they are cool!).

[Killax]

13 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

What? Other than his hair, he totally looks like the model.

Again, this is why your point completely fails. "Other than X, it totally looks like the model". 

In addition more different card art is comming up. 


In order to match any of the card art 100% you will even have to convert.

[Turragor]

9 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

What? Other than his hair, he totally looks like the model.

 

On the greenstuff models -

(First off - totally cool!)

The Steelheart model ha s a shield. Confusing.

The Obryn model has  one handed hammer. Confusing.

Which model is which? Out of the three models, the only thing I can say for sure is that none of them is Steelheart (no matter how cool they are - and they are cool!).

I think this is a bit overdone to prove your point. By that I mean, you know which one is steelheart.

Perhaps in other warbands with 5 or more but this is a 3 character warband. Surely "sword", "a hammer" and "Lady SC with Shield" would be sufficient for most opponents.

[Chris Tomlin]

Guys, let's keep this friendly please. I've had to hide a couple of the replies here as they bordered on personal insults. It's ok for people to have different opinions on this kind of stuff and it can actually make for some really interesting discussion if we are just a little more respectful to one another. I've not issued any warnings at this time, so please just dial it back a little yeah. Cheers.

I have some thoughts of my own on the matter of conversions in Shadepsire and will share them later.

[tea_wild_owl]

I bought a second set of the skeletons (awesome models ?) to have two different warbands: the normal ones fighting with possessed weapons and the awakened ones where the spirits are freed makes it easier to see who is awakened on the field

[Killax]

Yeah I think a lot of great alternatives are around which really shouldn't confuse anyone. To give som examples of models I also plan to use for other reasons are:

Steelhear's Champion's (Soulblight)

Vampire Steelheart:

Vampire/Undead Obryn (convert weapon to hammer)


Vampire Brightshield (add shield and remove cup)


Sepulchral Guard ('pimped')

Use the Wight King pieces for several uses. For example use the head for The Prince of Dust, the body for the Warden or even Champion if you manage to remove the shield in a cool way. 


Obviously everybody loves the Cairn Wraith model and quite honestly it's a better Harvester as the Harvester is if your looking for something scarier (which the Harvester really is in terms of effective model). It's currently sold out online, like for the exact reason that loads of people love this model. 

Other Warbands 

Can really find inspiration from all kinds of sources. I will convert all my Warbands ever so slightly to make them look like I want to but I think every Garrek's Reavers player or Ironskull's Boyz player can find all kinds of models to base their Warband on and make them ever so slightly different and unique without causing any real confusion on which model is supposed to represent another. As before, the artwork on the cards doesn't even represent the poses or looks many of the orginal models have so you could even go as far to create the exact artwork of the model itself.

Things I'd consider doing for the Ironskull Warband is to actually go Tribal, yes indeed Savage Orruk! Having one Orruk with the 'big stick' would make for an excellent Bonekutta. Both Hakka and Basha only really differ in blunt weapons and edged weapons so that distinction is very easy to make and for Gurzag himself the real difference needed is more "loot" perhaps ideally put him on a higher base and extend his body.

In that same vein Chaos offers tons of variety in Marauder bodies or Darkoath-ish models so you can really go quite wild there too for Garrek's Reavers. Tagror and Arnulf are equiped with the same weaponry and even based on art the only real difference is the helmet, so here too that small detail would be sufficient. Then Saek and Garrek are both armed with two-handed weapons so the only difference made here should again be in the form of a visual distinction between leader and grunt. Karsus the chained is unique with his own ranged axe but again any kit offers a ton of chains. One could even consider simply giving Karsus a Marauder spear because within the crew he's also the only one with a range 2 weapon.

Even for Spiteclaw there is a very easy to remember visual distinction between the models. We have a very clear leader model and grunt armed with spear and ever so slightly more armoured. Then we have one Skaven with a flail and shield, which easily could be a mace and shield or even sling and shield (a lot of people even thought it was a sling at first). The other two are simply armed with two daggers so the moment you make some visual distinction a lot of it will be as clear as ice.... To be completely honest with you lads, I even deem it very likely that I'll convert that Warband to visually look more akin to all Stormvirmin, meaning I'll likely armour them up some more. But it's also very easy to create a Plague Monk or Eshin flavoured Warband out of this. Simply have two models (with one being a very clear leader) with Plague Flails or in the case of Eshin use the dynamic Assassin as the leader, Gutter runners as the dagger boys, older Assassin as the other spear-guy and tool one of them up with a shield and sling.

Converting these Warbands with the large range GW provides is easy and really any fan of the game wouldn't mind it the moment you inform your TO, opponent and give friendly reminders of who they are throughout the game. 

The key to succes for any game is communication. 
 

[Goblin-King]

16 minutes ago, tea_wild_owl said:

I bought a second set of the skeletons (awesome models ?) to have two different warbands: the normal ones fighting with possessed weapons and the awakened ones where the spirits are freed makes it easier to see who is awakened on the field

That's... That's a really good idea. Especially if you are gonna buy several copies for the sake of the cards anyways.

You could do similar things with all the warbands. Normal liberators and inspired Liberators that gain glowing eyes and weapons.

[Mr. White]

8 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Or, you know, if the thread is about discussing customization and does not specify that it is PRO only, then mabye ANTI is fitting as well?

Eh...This is a bit of stretch, almost reading the thread with blinders on. Clearly, from the OP this is a thread celebrating customization. I mean here's the first complete sentence in the thread:

" I want this to be a place to post and to collect ideas how you customize your shadespire warband or board "

I think it would be totally appropriate to use this thread as an inspiration for one to go off and start a new one about should/shouldn't there be customization, but this isn't the place.

[Chris Tomlin]

3 minutes ago, Mr. White said:

I think it would be totally appropriate to use this thread as an inspiration for one to go off and start a new one about should/shouldn't there be customization, but this isn't the place.

Yeah...you know what, let's go along with this.

Please keep all further posts in this topic strictly related to the customisation of Warbands...show off pics, discuss conversions etc.

I will hide anything further related to the topic of whether there should or shouldn't be customisation in Shadespire. That said, I would love someone to start up that very topic as I believe it'll be interesting (if we all behave!). Unfortunately I don't have the time to write up my thoughts today, but if someone else wants to get the ball rolling I'll contribute over the next day or so.

Cheers,
Chris

(FYI, Green = me in mod mode. It's a new thing I'm trying. Hopefully it highlights the post without being obnoxious to read)

[Attackmack]

10 hours ago, tea_wild_owl said:

I bought a second set of the skeletons (awesome models ?) to have two different warbands: the normal ones fighting with possessed weapons and the awakened ones where the spirits are freed makes it easier to see who is awakened on the field

 

That is really cool! Like the idea of separate models for the inspired ones

 

[Killax]

Will be gathering more bits tomorrow but will also continue to go for an un-helmeted Steelheart's Champions Warband  some initial thinkering, more will certainly follow. Including Steelheart with longer hair and some Celestial Warbringer bits to make it look even more different. I basically want to enforce a WFB feeling on them.



Other than that, like the Bloodreavers they too will recieve different bases, hope to suprise some people with what I have planned  In addition I even went to some old mates of mine who had some Empire bits still left from 17 years ago and some parts of that will appear on these models too.

All in all I think the best part of Shadespire is actually going to the max on each model. Who guesses which head is on Obryn gets a cookie  

[Wallack]

I think the best one to convert is the stormcast:

- A leader
- A guy with a two handed weapon
- A guy (or a lady!) with a shield

Ironjawz to me are even harder to identify now same as reavers. Sepulchral are easier IMO but the best to customize are the SCE because they are three (low count) and very easy to identify.

[Killax]

13 minutes ago, Wallack said:

I think the best one to convert is the stormcast:

- A leader
- A guy with a two handed weapon
- A guy (or a lady!) with a shield

Ironjawz to me are even harder to identify now same as reavers. Sepulchral are easier IMO but the best to customize are the SCE because they are three (low count) and very easy to identify.

I think most are easy convertable to be honest! But I do agree, the less models the wilder the conversions usually can get because there is less room for confusion. But as above though I think that usually weapon swaps are the best route to go. In fact it's only the Petitioners I think could cause some confusion if you go too wild on them. By large because they are the first 3 identical models presented in Shadespire.

Frankly speaking though I also think that the other Warbands will have more models who look alike but likely still be different due to pose and expression. The Chosen Axes for example will likely be 4 Fyreslayers, two with great weapons, two with double axes. At least if their artwork is any indication.


The middle and right Fyreslayer on this art look quite similar except for pose, but the fact of the matter remains that all artwork so far isn't a complete copy of the model anyway. It's akin to each other but you will still see games where opponent's asks who's who and the only way to solve that is to inform your opponent.

Also picked up my first Reaper miniature today for a fantasy female human head. Which to my suprise I didn't have after 15+ years of Wargaming. I could have beheaded one of the females from Malifaux or Warmachine but really didn't feel like it. In addition those heads are also a little to small for Brightshield. So what I went out for was the female bard from the Reaper miniature series. I think it will work out very well . Though I might need to clip off the ears if it looks to Aelven/Elvish. 

 

Other than that though, I feel people should convert and alter to their liking. If I had to mention another rule of tumb I'd say try to use at least 80% of the orginal model in your conversions. In that case about 80% of the players should reconize the model in question.

For Garrek's Reavers I think the differences are clear enough up until Arnolf and Targor, for Ironskulls that applies to Hakka and Basha, Sepulchral Guard the Petitioners etc. All of it can become only unclear if either of the players declines to say who's who which frankly speaking boils down to unwillingness to cooperate in a game be it competitive or casual.

As a former MtG TO this also occurs there when a player refuses to inform an opponent of what a card does when a card has extended artwork and thus lacks the text that is normally on the card. In those cases aswell, inform your opponent. Any person(al) game (board, mini or card) requires communication and if someone is unwilling to do that they should feel free to jump behind their PC again. 

Hope to show some progression on the Steelheart's this Thursday  

Cheers,