Multiple Standard Bearers Per Unit

[themortalgod]

Up until recently, I have mostly thought about the multiple standard bearer options fo units like Marauder Horsemen, Marauders, Hellstriders, etc as a choice of one or the other. I suppose this harkens back to years of warhammer fantasy and the idea of each unit only having one of each command model being rule of law. But that isn't the case for AoS, the unit entries very explicitly allow for multiple standard bearers which means it is not only feasible, but optimal to take both options in every unit that has multiple standard bearer options.  I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this? Part of me feels its a bit "gamey" but it seems this is what GW intended from the way the rules were written?

Side note: Warscroll builder only lets you select a single standard bearer option, not sure if this is an oversight or if it shows that perhaps GW intended for  SB types to be all of one type, no matter how many you have in a unit. 

 

[Killax]

I think it's cool but also think it's probably one of the smaller oversights or somewhat shows that the Warscrolls made for Age of Sigmar initially had some more varied designs. 

The thing is though that with points involved one can thake this into account and it works out all fine. Most Icons or Standards don't have an incredible massive impact anyway, they are just there for me to make the unit look visually cooler and easy to create a slightly different look per unit too.  It's confirmed to be possible and intended with the FAQ. 

[BunkhouseBuster]

I see no problem with having multiples in the unit.  Having multiples of the same kinds can just count for redundancy, while giving the unit a better visual appeal - let's be honest, more flags and icons in a unit is pretty cool.  I was even toying with the idea back in WHFB days of putting more banners in the unit, but only "counting" the one in the front row for rules purposes, but this was largely due to the fact that Lizardmen Saurus Warriors come with so many banners in the boxes.

In the cases of having different standards/banner/icons to choose from, rules-wise, like Ironjawz Ardboys, I'm all for it.  As @Killax mentioned, the standards's effects are hardly game-changing, and add to the visuals of the unit.  If you play at an event or with an opponent that insists on having just one banner count, then just pick the one you want and play with the rules for that one.  Seems perfectly reasonable and logical to me.

[themortalgod]

Right, though they don't cost additional points so it does feel like a "free upgrade". I agree that most standards aren't particularly impactful, there are a few extremely strong ones though, for example, the Hellstriders -1 to hit aura banner. 

[Bjarni St.]

It's kind of awkward but the warscrolls can be taken at face value (so far), meaning you can take them all. They clamped down on Netters in goblin units (scroll says any number, kit has the three that were the cap in WHFB and that's the rule now) after it was made clear to them it was an issue though, so don't assume it'll last forever if you find an edge somewhere.

I would not take Warscroll Builder's options as rules over the scrolls. It's not being handled by the rules team.

[Aginor]

If the person doesn't clearly exploit it (like in: significantly more than 1-2 banners per 10 models to increase the range to the maximum) I don't care. I also play that way.

 

And if someone does care (which is perfectly OK in my book):

I make sure the standards all look different so when I play several in one unit I can easily point at one of them and say "this one counts". Same for the alphas and musicians.

When in doubt I would just ask my opponent to do the same.

 

Edit: oh, and only one buff per unit. Ardboyz banner for example. I am pretty sure it is intended to have only one effect in use. I'd be ready to talk about that with my opponent though. If my opponent insists I would probably say yes for the sake of being a nice person.

[Kramer]

47 minutes ago, Aginor said:

Edit: oh, and only one buff per unit. Ardboyz banner for example. I am pretty sure it is intended to have only one effect in use. I'd be ready to talk about that with my opponent though. If my opponent insists I would probably say yes for the sake of being a nice person.

Don't really know how to interpret this? If you mean that the effects of multiples of the same banner don't stack... you are right. Hellstriders don't get -3 to hit for three enrapturing banners. But the same unit would both effects, as long as they have one of each, of the Icon of Excess and the Enrapturing banner. 

 

54 minutes ago, Aginor said:

 

Right, though they don't cost additional points so it does feel like a "free upgrade".

 

Haha, still the old mindset  They are now part of the unit just as any other rules. It's just that it's tied to specific models, like the one in five liberators with a grandhammer. It adds to the tactical challenge of removing units. (although I feel it should have been limited in the same manner). 

[Aginor]

19 hours ago, Kramer said:

Don't really know how to interpret this? If you mean that the effects of multiples of the same banner don't stack... you are right. Hellstriders don't get -3 to hit for three enrapturing banners. But the same unit would both effects, as long as they have one of each, of the Icon of Excess and the Enrapturing banner. 

 

Haha, still the old mindset  They are now part of the unit just as any other rules. It's just that it's tied to specific models, like the one in five liberators with a grandhammer. It adds to the tactical challenge of removing units. (although I feel it should have been limited in the same manner). 

 

What I meant was: I think it is intended that you always take one banner per unit so you have to choose between the two.

But then again: I would probably not argue with an Ironjawz player because it isn't exactly the strongest army so even if they have both banners that's not a neck breaker.

I seldom lose against them these days. Snipe the Cabbage and/or the Shaman and the rest will almost never kill my Saurus Guards.

[Kramer]

5 hours ago, Aginor said:

 

What I meant was: I think it is intended that you always take one banner per unit so you have to choose between the two.

But then again: I would probably not argue with an Ironjawz player because it isn't exactly the strongest army so even if they have both banners that's not a neck breaker.

I seldom lose against them these days. Snipe the Cabbage and/or the Shaman and the rest will almost never kill my Saurus Guards.

Fair enough, I admit it was my thought process for a long time as well. But it’s an easy fix and something they haven’t addressed in the update to ghb2017. So my conclusion is that the one banner assumption is a left over artifact from the game I grew up with. 

Also very good in you to ‘bend’ the rules if it makes for a more exciting game. I think that’s the mindset gw was going for before points. 

[Aginor]

5 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Also very good in you to ‘bend’ the rules if it makes for a more exciting game. I think that’s the mindset gw was going for before points. 

I am used to that because I was a D&D game master.
Everybody having fun is more important for me than winning.

[BunkhouseBuster]

On 10/24/2017 at 12:23 PM, Aginor said:

But then again: I would probably not argue with an Ironjawz player because it isn't exactly the strongest army so even if they have both banners that's not a neck breaker.

I would be that Ironjawz player to argue in favor of it.  Reasons being: A) it looks cooler with more banners, and B) the Banner is +2 Bravery in melee range of any, with the Icon stops fleeing models from running on a roll of a 6.  One is handy, the other is fun when it goes off, but has yet to make a difference for me in a game.  I've only ever used the Icon's ability three times, and it succeeded twice out of them in my games.

21 hours ago, Aginor said:

I am used to that because I was a D&D game master.
Everybody having fun is more important for me than winning.

Me too!  And I have the exact same attitude for games I play - if someone isn't having fun, then you aren't playing the right way

[BrAiKo]

I tend to have one banner/musician per minimum troop number in a unit so that if I were to split the unit into MSU they all have their command group.  As for different types of banner in one unit, I feel the warscroll rules allow for it, but you should have two models with different looking banners in the unit so they can be differentiated.   

[Frozenbeast]

even back in WHFB I used to slap multiple banners i nthe units as for me they were (and they still are) esteticly more enjoyable. This does not mean you pay for them, even because the effect on banner/s is and will always be only one. BTW the warscrolls specify that "if you have ANY banner in the unit the effect is ........" meaning you can have any number of them making sure only one will proc the eventual effect. And anyway the abulity procs from a unit including any standard bearer not from the standard model itself.

[themortalgod]

2 minutes ago, Frozenbeast said:

even back in WHFB I used to slap multiple banners i nthe units as for me they were (and they still are) esteticly more enjoyable. This does not mean you pay for them, even because the effect on banner/s is and will always be only one. BTW the warscrolls specify that "if you have ANY banner in the unit the effect is ........" meaning you can have any number of them making sure only one will proc the eventual effect. And anyway the abulity procs from a unit including any standard bearer not from the standard model itself.

Multiples of the same banner are definitely not cumulative.  The discussion is in regards to a single unit having multiple banners of different types. For example a unit of Marauders having both a Tribal Banner and a Damned Icon.

[Rubencm81]

There is a Faq for this. It applies to pestilens but....

Q: On the Plague Monks warscroll, the option is given for 
models to be Icon Bearers with standards, or Plague Harbingers 
with instruments. The warscroll states that any model in the 
unit can be an Icon Bearer or a Plague Harbinger. Does that 
mean I can equip my unit of Plague Monks with both options 
from both categories?
A: Yes, you may take multiple standards and instruments 
in a unit if the warscroll allows it.

[tea_wild_owl]

having multiple standard bearers or instruments can be useful against models that can kill specific models in a unit. stardrake is a good example: he ca eat up to 3 models in range. if he eats a single standard bearer in a 40 skeleton unit, the unit is damned because it can no longer resurrect models. if you have 4 standard bearers in the same block of 40 skeletons, there is always one standard bearer left, which allows you to resurrect the other ones again.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

I like taking a few in large regiments (30+) due to positioning.