Daniel saxcloud Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 i was an old whfb player, and I own 4 "old world" armies: Bretonnia,empire,wood elves, ogre kingdom. I can start play with these army but as I am a " bg competitive" style of gamer, I dislike the idea to ally one subfaction with another, I could start with some new faction but basically I could like kharadron esthetically but not the shooty style of the army. I could consider sylvaneth or beastclaw but a little too ... Restricted, in option. Other army didn't really turn on the sparkle of love. So , as I love close combat\ combined arms , what do you think best suit a poor themed army player like me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmalthus Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 If you like dwarfs Fyreslayers are hot ( ha ha! ) right now. My buddy has a Fyreslayers list that is very good. However, they are cost prohibitive ( like the retail cost ). Or there are the Dispossessed. I recently played against a Dispossessed army in a tournament, it was pretty good. Lots of hammerers, Ironbreakers, thunderers, a few dwarf lords and they just got Allegiance abilities with GHB17( as did Fyreslayers ) Also maybe just proxy test a game or two with a friend? Just make pretend with your current models so you can see how some stuff plays before investing in anything. And, Welcome to the Age of Sigmar; the water's fine ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 If you want unbound restriction there is little that is as flexible in design as Slaves to Darkness/Chaos. In that same vein on the other side of that spectrum is Stormcasts/Order. Order recently recieved some great additions to their Grand Allegiance with Firestorm. Considering what you have Id look into that! It would likely mean all you need to add to Free Guilds/Empire would be Stormcast. Stormcast rock in melee and are very combined arms. They also have the most Battalions and a ton of unit choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 The one rule above all else. The rule of cool. What sort of rule is that you say ? If you think it looks cool, play it. play it alot. @Ben can prove that it's how you play a army more than how powerful the net list says it is. He plays the best looking dwarves, the chaos dwarves. Not the best on paper but he does really well with them. If you think they look awesome and play fun then go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunkhouseBuster Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Close-combat/combined arms? Hm... There are plenty of options for that. It would probably be easier to pick an army that you like the looks of rather than the playstyle. Having said that, here's my anecdotal thoughts on the playstyles based on my limited experience, without any regard to aesthetic or fluff: CLOSE COMBAT - Some of the armies are pretty much stuck in melee in due to a combination of A) a lack of shooting units, B) strong synergies, C) survivability. Ironjawz, the only AoS army I have played so far, is a pure beatstick of an army. The only shooting attacks in the army come from the Shaman's spells, or the Maw-krusha's yells. Good synergy on already tough units that don't fold up once that synergy is gone. Khorne Bloodbound & Blades of Khorne have as much shooting as Ironjawz (except in the forms of Prayers and not spells) and are just as capable in melee. They are a little more reliant on synergy to be really monstrous in combat, but they have far more options as to how they get their buffs. Combine with the options for Slaves to Darkness as allies that can buff your guys like crazy (I'm looking at you, Warshrines) and you can really have a melee powerhouse. Death armies, particularly Deathrattle and Flesh-eater Courts, will typically want to bog down their enemies with volume of bodies and attacks. While one Skeleton is not very effective, 40 of them are. They specialize in recursively bringing back models, and can use Summoning to bolster their forces or as a way to play with deployment. However, Death armies are very reliant on synergies, and once the buff providers go down, then the army can crumble rather quickly. RANGED COMBAT - Where some armies are good at melee, others rely on doing damage from a distance to be effective. Kharadron Overlords have a bunch of options and lots of different tools, and one of the most customizable armies in the form of their army tactics, from which you can choose their rules from three different tables. Weak in melee, but they have good mobility and are the only army so far that can transport models on another one. Ironweld Arsenal is literally just the warmachines and artillery from the old Dwarf and Empire WHFB armies. Only long range guns, needs melee support for them, but can be cool Allies. Tzeentch, mortal and daemonic, have a bunch of ranged attacks and magic that can put on the hurt from a distance. Several powerful options to look at in here. COMBINED ARMS/BALANCED MELEE & RANGED - As the girl from the taco commercial asks, "why not both?" Sylvaneth have a decent mix in its army: tarpits, elite units, large monsters, melee units, ranged units, magic, movement shenanigans, and survivability. Granted, they have a somewhat limited model selection, but they make up for it with their capabilities on the tabletop. Stormcast Eternals have the largest selection of models in the game, and they have a good mix like the Sylvaneth, except for magic, though they have prayers on some characters. Stormcast also do not have a tarpit unit, but their basic troopers can be plentiful on the table if you wish. Dispossessed are the old Dwarf range, sans cannons. They have guys with guns, and guys with axes. You can take tanky guys, or more offensive guys. Good in-faction hero support, they are an army where you want to have decent numbers since their elite models are still 1 Wound each. Free Guild are similar to Dispossessed, though more reliant on synergies and gunlines, though can be terrifying when used effectively. Guys with guns, guys with stabby things, guys on Demigryphs, and good hero support. Seraphon are also good at a multitude of things, much like Sylvaneth. Tarpits, elites, monsters, melee & ranged, good magic, all that jazz! Plus, it's DINOSAURS, man! Good luck on picking an army! Don't forget to keep fluff and aesthetics in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel saxcloud Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 well, few point.... don't have death but will for sure take the skelly for shadespire, so cool... Didn't like too much the range, otherwise.... no chaos. Hate them . well, for the empire I have a 200+ models primary basics infantry. I'm not willing to start a flame ( haha) but hate fireslayer sculpt . Neither I like stormcast. I'm considering karadron on aesthetic but truly can get annoying to play gunlines. sylvaneth or karadron are, at the moment , the best candidates btw from their battletome there are point cost changes for kharadron in gh 2017? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 12 hours ago, Daniel saxcloud said: I'm considering karadron on aesthetic but truly can get annoying to play gunlines. sylvaneth or karadron are, at the moment , the best candidates Don't forget that yes is Kahadron is shooting focussed, tactically it's more about the movement than simply standing still and picking the right targets. Take a look through this thread for a great player that documented his whole experience of discovering the playstyle through 30+ battle reports. http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/9502-chronicles-of-a-sky-pirate/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunkhouseBuster Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 18 hours ago, Daniel saxcloud said: no chaos. Hate them . Do you count Skaven as Chaos? They are in AoS now, but they have a good mix shooting and melee in their armies. The melee strength comes from tarpits, and their shooting can often blow themselves up, but they can be an effective army when played smartly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valenae Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Beastclaw army is cool. You can mix it with orcs and goblins - it is not restricted at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Ironjawz. Done. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperHappyTime Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 On 10/10/2017 at 11:22 AM, Daniel saxcloud said: i was an old whfb player, and I own 4 "old world" armies: Bretonnia,empire,wood elves, ogre kingdom. I can start play with these army but as I am a " bg competitive" style of gamer, I dislike the idea to ally one subfaction with another, I could start with some new faction but basically I could like kharadron esthetically but not the shooty style of the army. I could consider sylvaneth or beastclaw but a little too ... Restricted, in option. Other army didn't really turn on the sparkle of love. So , as I love close combat\ combined arms , what do you think best suit a poor themed army player like me? This may be a bit of a challenge. By "restricted", I'd infer you to mean "lacking in the number of different units they can select from". Or maybe like me, you aren't keen on models that look the same, yet function slightly different (Such as Savage Orruks and Savage Orruk Arrerboyz). Subtracting out Chaos (Khorne and Tzeentch) that only leaves Stormcast and Seraphon (Lizardmen). If you want to stay with zero Allies, you're gonna be restricted in models to choose from. Sylvaneth are pretty middle of the road in that regard. I then open you to the possibility of including an ally (or multiple if your playgroup allows). This would bring you close to the old 8th Ed Army Breakdowns (Dwarfs, Dark Elfs etc). In the end though, my only recommendation is to go with the one that really gives that spark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Also have you seen this thread? Could give a good insight into how the factions play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch of Izalith Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 You could run beastclaw? If you have any mournfang/thundertusk/stonehorn in your ogre kingdoms army that will get you started & you can ally the other ogres. You could make a thematic Grand Alliance Order army using Wanderer and Sylvaneth models which would give you some very solid warscrolls and the army would look like a WFB wood elf army in composition. You will loose the cool allegiance abilities of both factions in that list but would have the option to field the army as either Sylvaneth or wanderers + allies if you want to play more competitively. Actually, If you want to play the game competitively you will probably have to get over some of your dislikes! I would just get sylvaneth if I were you. You like the models, you can run them as a close combat aggressive army and they are both competitive and thematic in the Age of sigmar setting. There is a big community of players now and everyone is very positive and enthusiatic about the game and where it is going. I think you have chosen a good time to pick up your dice again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel saxcloud Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 Well my biggest problem with aos is that i dislike the stormcastand Chaos in general. Never got into Death. I am a different kind of "competitive" player, as i Like to play tournament but always with army I like. For example I own an imperial infantry army of over 200 trooper, as I liked the massed infantry, and painted them like the falcon army, choosing only younger head. I try to get a similar feel. For sylvaneth I would have only a5th ed and a 7th ed treeMen, 16 dryads and old drycha. Never bought mournfang or big beast for ogres.im looking for the gh17 to get at least the point cost but I am a bit geared more vs kharadron if i can make a more combined arms army. I see some beauty on smashin enemy with beastclaw, and more economy thanks to bundle and start collecting. restricting the field, what will look goods for 1000 point to start with sylvaneth and beastclaw? For kharadron I believe a list as this can please me admiral,khemist, 20 arkanaut 6 skyhooks, 10 arkanaut, skypike, 3endrinrigger, a frigate. should be a good compromise for a mixed army, however geared on shooting but not lacking too much on close combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fraser Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 What does combined arms mean to you? Kharadron will always have a heavy core of shooting to it because your compulsory 3 battleline units are arkanaut company which are basically 7 ablative wounds and 3 good guns. I guess you could use the combat spear option in a unit and try them as a combat threat but it seems like a square peg in round hole solution when you can take endrinriggers in the same army. For combat threat it's got to be endrinriggers, you want to bump the unit size up to 6-9 if you plan on using the grapnel ability as you lose combat punch if you're swapping out in a smaller unit. 1000pts list you've put up looks like it's reasonably solid. The other thing you want to think about are the special skyport rules you'd use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel saxcloud Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 to me combined arms is like the old empire detachment: I want combat capable unit that can hold their own but are not exactly bloody killer while I wish fire support to mitigate enemy soecialist but not so much to rely only onto the gun. To win I must use correctly the shooting and the impact of my units to look for victory. Maybe kharadron do for me ill see , but also fielding a few behemot with beastclaw can be tempting... Must try a 1000 point list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch of Izalith Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Have a look at Darkling Covens - They are all about combined arms. You can still field a really strong freeguild force with your Empire models that is also built around your units working together and supporting each other. I have gone from thinking the stormcast were a bit ridiculous to liking them alot now I have read more of the lore about them and some time has passed for the writers to create more story. I still can't deal with shiny gold armour but that's just one colour scheme! I'm not trying to convince you to play Stormcast but just to consider that you won't really find out what you like until you have invested some time into reading, playing and being part of the community. Its also worth mentioning that there are quite a few people still playing Warhammer Fantasy (I still play 4th edition Undead when anyone lets me!) so if you are really keen for the old style game its still out there - particularly in Europe. Or there is 9th age which is a community version. I don't like it because the draw of fantasy for me was that the old world was an incredible place to set a wargame - and the 9th age changed the whole setting and the names of the units. You might like it though, if you are more interested in the game mechanics. Whatever you play its great to see so many people getting back into gaming in the last couple of years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunkhouseBuster Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 What about Fyreslayers? They are a strong melee army, but they have decent ranged capability, and their basic troops can smuggle in pseudo-ranged attacks as well. My wargaming buddy is getting into them and I was reminded of them as he told me his plans for building his army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naflem Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 9:17 AM, Valenae said: Beastclaw army is cool. You can mix it with orcs and goblins - it is not restricted at all. But can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel saxcloud Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 uhmmm thank you all! i'm looking forward to sylvaneth or beastclaw, as i like more the axe to face than the shooting style of play kharadron have... Thanks you all for now, I'll redirect myself to the appropriate let's chat topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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