Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

[Overread]

GW are ever famed for somewhat ambiguous writing but that one takes the cake considering that unit can mean a unit of  troops or an individual unit. Also makes it worth dropping GW an email to confirm that one unless its been confirmed before with other armies prior to this? 

 

Atreides - I'd honestly like to see more variation in the shades of red and perhaps a third colour at least to help break the model up a little. At present the red all sort of blurs together and looks more messy than like they've detailed themselves with markings (ergo your red tattoo and your blood and armour are all sort of blending into the same colour). I'd also possibly pick the armour out; you could do a silvery base and then paint a thin layer of red over the top (the medium mixed with some red would be ideal for that); that would give you a shiny red that's got a hint of being armour whilst having the red effect. 

[BadgersinMeadows]

4 minutes ago, Overread said:

 

Atreides - I'd honestly like to see more variation in the shades of red and perhaps a third colour at least to help break the model up a little. At present the red all sort of blurs together and looks more messy than like they've detailed themselves with markings (ergo your red tattoo and your blood and armour are all sort of blending into the same colour). I'd also possibly pick the armour out; you could do a silvery base and then paint a thin layer of red over the top (the medium mixed with some red would be ideal for that); that would give you a shiny red that's got a hint of being armour whilst having the red effect. 

Thanks for your feedback! The tattoos are about the only thing that's been painted, going to go for a black colour for the cloth and a cold flesh skin tone to add some contrast. Not sure what the armour's going to be. 

[TalesOfSigmar]

3 hours ago, ageofpaddsmar said:

So guys having abit of a debate about temple nest. How does the mortal wounds on a one to hit work when the enemy has reroll ones to hit? 

This is being clarified by the FAQ, also whether minus -1 to hits work on the rule too.  Have a feeling it wont but there's always a chance we can stack -1 to hit to make them do MW back on a 3/4 or less haha.

 

Got my first game tonight so should be starting my gaming blog tomorrow/on the weekend. Running this list against a Stormcast list, mainly the models I've already got built (bar another 5 Warlocks and 10 Sisters of Slaughter which are sitting on the subs bench for tonight). Need to remember that Triumph as I'm pretty sure he's 2K on the nose.

 

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine

- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Martyr's Sacrifice
Hag Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (300)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples
- Artefact: Khainite Pendant
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers

Units
5 x Doomfire Warlocks (160)
- Lore of Shadows: Shroud of Despair

Behemoths
Avatar of Khaine (180)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119
 

[BURF1]

7 minutes ago, Overread said:

GW are ever famed for somewhat ambiguous writing but that one takes the cake considering that unit can mean a unit of  troops or an individual unit. Also makes it worth dropping GW an email to confirm that one unless its been confirmed before with other armies prior to this? 

 

Atreides - I'd honestly like to see more variation in the shades of red and perhaps a third colour at least to help break the model up a little. At present the red all sort of blurs together and looks more messy than like they've detailed themselves with markings (ergo your red tattoo and your blood and armour are all sort of blending into the same colour). I'd also possibly pick the armour out; you could do a silvery base and then paint a thin layer of red over the top (the medium mixed with some red would be ideal for that); that would give you a shiny red that's got a hint of being armour whilst having the red effect. 

I have no idea what you're talking about here actually. Unit is one of the only clear and consistent terms GW uses.  It's as straight forward as their rules writing gets.

Not to mention the fact that this specific issue has been specifically addressed in the FAQs for like...2 general's handbooks now.

as for @Atreides Because you're doing a flayed skin thing, I would recommend using a completely different color on the armor/cloth/headdress. without more contrast it'll look less like deliberate tattooing and more like you dropped it into your pallette.

[Overread]

1 minute ago, BURF1 said:

I have no idea what you're talking about here actually. Unit is one of the only clear and consistent terms GW uses.  It's as straight forward as their rules writing gets.

Not to mention the fact that this specific issue has been specifically addressed in the FAQs for like...2 general's handbooks now.

Technically I've had Sigmar stuff for around 24 hours now

My experience of the word unit came from other sources outside of the hobby, ergo my confusion. My tyranid codex have always used terms such as "the whole brood" when denoting weapon chances which, in my view, make the description more clear to the reader. 

My thanks for the clarification, this at least helps make more sense when it comes to reading army lists, though still leaves the question of weapon and command build choices up in the air for discussion. 

[Twitch of Izalith]

32 minutes ago, Overread said:

So how do you do it, do you keep a standard and horn for large groups and the groups of 10 or so are left without; do you mix and match blades and bucklers or keep them quite distinct - does the kit itself even give you much room to make that choice in itself. 

As far as weapons go the loadout applies to the whole unit - including champion, banner and musician. I would expect everything to be wisiwig. Or at least the majority of the unit. so if someone had 30 witches armed with 2 knives but 10 of the models had bucklers I would be fine with it at long as they told me up front, kept the bucklers at the back and took them off first as casualties.

There is nothing to stop you having multiple banners and musicians so you could build one for every 10 models if you want and have 3 of each in a unit of 30. Some people get put off this because they don't like the way it looks but there is no reason why you can't do it.

I have done that with my sisters of slaughter because I mostly run them in 10's but occaisionally run them in 20 or 30. For the witch elves which I usually run in larger blocks I have built a banner and musician for every 20 models to give me more options.

Champions are similar but you need to define exactly who the champion is in a bigger unit (which might contain more than 1 champion model) because you are only allowed 1 per unit. I'm going to build a champion for each 5 Khinerai for example but I will give them slightly different colour shcemes so I can say "the one with the red mask is the champ" or similar if I field them in 10's or larger.

 

[Twitch of Izalith]

@Atreides whats up with your primer? is that brushed on or something? looks really rough.

If you are doing it with a spray can it worth taking the extra time to hold the can further away and do Duncan's famous 2 thin coats - getting a smooth layer of primer will make your paint job look way better - whatever colours you choose. 

not sure about skinless witch elves if i'm going to be honest with you but you definitely get points for being inventive! Mine are all generic box art copies! (though i'm doing some updates once I decide what my new units will look like) Would be cool to see a finished model if you feel like posting a pic when you are done. Would definitely recommend doing a test model start to finish before you launch into a whole unit!

[BadgersinMeadows]

@Twitch of Izalith It is brush on primer, and the brush I used is a bit manky and more suited to drybrushing but it was what I had on hand. 

The idea was inspired by a video on Dr. Faust's Painting Clinic where he does a giant in this way, and it's pretty cool. I posted an earlier picture on Facebook, and the comments are a bit varied to say the least haha. 

[Scythian]

Question: I can find nowhere in the DoK book that states you MUST join a temple. Anyone have any insight on this?

[Qaz]

5 minutes ago, Scythian said:

Question: I can find nowhere in the DoK book that states you MUST join a temple. Anyone have any insight on this?

You don't have to join a temple. Not that I have seen anywhere that it says you have to. 

[TalesOfSigmar]

You don't have to join one at all. But they're extra bonuses/traits without having to pay points so they're great to run.

[Overread]

Whilst you don't have to join one its clear that the army is designed to work with them, so you'd be denying yourself a few perks. As there's no cost to joining its basically expected that you'd join one with your force to gain the bonus. 

 

Note it does say on one page that you can paint your models to represent which group you've joined, but in the real world the paint scheme doesn't matter. You can paint your models however you want (even not painting them) and most players have no problem with you changing what temple your army is using game to game. It's just another detail that goes down on the army list, like spell choices etc... 

No one is going to enforce paint schemes and most players (even those that play the armies) won't be all that seriously familiar with all the various official schemes anyway. It's a nice bit of detail if you want to do it, but there's no pressure on you to do so. 

[TalesOfSigmar]

13 minutes ago, Overread said:

Note it does say on one page that you can paint your models to represent which group you've joined, but in the real world the paint scheme doesn't matter. You can paint your models however you want (even not painting them) and most players have no problem with you changing what temple your army is using game to game. It's just another detail that goes down on the army list, like spell choices etc... 

No one is going to enforce paint schemes and most players (even those that play the armies) won't be all that seriously familiar with all the various official schemes anyway. It's a nice bit of detail if you want to do it, but there's no pressure on you to do so. 

They might do at tournament events much like it was with Kharadron with their skyport colours, but yeah out of matched play with friendly games etc you can use whatever scheme/temple you want.

13 minutes ago, Overread said:

 (even not painting them)

But shame on you if you're never going to paint your minis

[zedatkinszed]

4 minutes ago, TalesOfSigmar said:

They might do at tournament events much like it was with Kharadron with their skyport colours, but yeah out of matched play with friendly games etc you can use whatever scheme/temple you want.

But shame on you if you're never going to paint your minis

Yeah - it does also say in the book that if you paint to a specific temple scheme then you can't declare for a different one. Honestly I do see some Tournaments enforcing this.

[TalesOfSigmar]

Yeah I know Blood and Glory did last year.

Thankfully I painted mine in a custom scheme so can pick and choose

[Overread]

Just now, zedatkinszed said:

Yeah - it does also say in the book that if you paint to a specific temple scheme then you can't declare for a different one. Honestly I do see some Tournaments enforcing this.

That's actually surprising to me as I've never heard the like in 40K. If you look in the codex some of the schemes are so similar, Hagg Nar and Draichi Ganeth are almost identical and Khailebron isn't that far behind. It's a shame as its rather a double standard since a custom scheme could be any army whilst any official one is locked to a single army - which is super strange since most people can't even do much beyond weapons in WYSIWYG gaming, let alone know or worry about a formal army paint scheme.

I wonder why Sigmar has shifted to encouraging this, even if just at tournament level, whereas 40K hasn't. Though that might well be a discussion fit for another thread. 

[Twitch of Izalith]

Yes, I don't know why GW continue to try and encourage this "paint it this way to gain these rules" idea - its obviously unpopular with almost everybody.

It would be ok if they had a similar level of detail to Space Marine chapters in 40k. So if Hag Nar had their own Battletome, unique units etc then I am painting a Hag Nar army not a DoK army. There's no way I'm permenantly theming an army around a couple of lines of text and one extra rule though!

But wait. If I paint my witch elves red does that mean I can use rules from the Blood Angels codex? I really want their 3D6 charge strategem.

I think they missed an opportunity to make Assassins and Dark Riders available to Khailebron and Executioners available to Draichi Ganeth (I know they can be allies but then they don't get the allegiance abilities). 

Dark riders have dissapeared off the webstore - i'm assuming the Warlocks are still the same kit? Anybody buy any this week?

I'm dissapointed Khelt Nar didn't get rules - but also amused at GW's fumbling attempts to introduce some cultural diversity into their ranges. they are like "Hey, look a witch elf with dark skin! see we do recognise different cultures  " but the black girls don't get any special rules - thats only for the white chicks.... FAIL. 

 

[Overread]

Dark riders are still there but I think they've fallen into the trap of having a page with no link to it - ergo GW forgot to put it back on the landing page, but the page itself still exists (I think they had a link to it in a previous news article and or such). 

The thing is some of their new splinter armies are so small they are non-functional without others - I'd really wish they'd consider a mercenaries handbook so that all those bits of armies can put together under one title Otherwise I worry that they'll split the armies up so much that in 5 years time they have to either drop or combine them to get the number of factions under a more manageable number. 

[DantePQ]

@TalesOfSigmar who is your general in that list? Hag Queen on Cauldron? 

[TalesOfSigmar]

1 minute ago, DantePQ said:

@TalesOfSigmar who is your general in that list? Hag Queen on Cauldron? 

Yup until it's cleared up whether Morathi can be the general in a temple and take an extra command trait I thought I'd run it with a generic hero and Mortahi added on.

[DantePQ]

Ok so I've played 4th battle with DoK by rooster was Khelibron - Morathi(Mindrazor), Slaughter Cauldron with Amulet of Dark Fire, Hag Queen, 30 Witches, 10 Witches, 10 SoS (bucklers), 10 Doomfire Warlocks, 2x10 Heartrenders against Nurgle : Glotkin, Festus, another mage,Gutrot, 5 Putrid Knights (with ambush), 2x40 Plauge Monks, 2x10 Maruders, Catapult Scenario : Starstrike. 

My oppnent rolled first turn and got 6 on Cycle so Morathi got 2 wounds and Warlocks 3 - no the best start, then he deployed 5 Putrids with a hero 9'' from Doomfire (my bad) and charged with a hero kill, he cast some spells but they were mostly buffs, in combat phase I lost another 3 wounds on warlocks. In my turn I decicded no to transform Morathi, I had not good option to comfortably redeploy anything with Temple ability, Doomfire killed the hero (3 MW from spells some shooting), Morathi failed Black Harror but cast Arcane Bolt into Festuts. I didn't got double turn so Putrid Knights charged into Warlocks and SoS (and they were locked in combat till the end of battle) my opponent made a huge mistake though as he moved forward with one 40 of monks and Glottkin. Another 40 were moved to guard 1 startstrike fragment, so in my turn I changed Morathi, charged big block of monks with Witches(Witchbrew + 1 to hit from Damned terrain and re-rolls of 1 from prayer that gave me +1 to Blood Rites), Morathi(with Mindrazor) and Cauldron into Glottkin, I killed all monks, glottkin put some wounds on Cauldron but was killed then my Mindrazored Morathi and Cauldron, it was done as I then was free to move into objevtives. 

It edned well but it was becasue of big mistake by my opponent but :

-  because of relative lack of bodies I was very uncomfortable as they die pretty easily. Also Warlocks didn't work as I thought they should and I think I will need to scrap them for more bodies and some kind of battalion. Kheliborn is nice but I guess you need 2 solid blocks of witches and Medusa. I am also thinking about HaggNar as I believe and it could be more reliable. 

[Keldaur]

Yep, even if it's 7" from the general, Hag Naggar gives you a solid core that can withstand most stuff.

Just a few random numbers that what you said @DantePQ gave me ideas about. Wondering between catechism against different options.

+1 Modifier

Catechism --->  25 + 10 hits = 35 hits

Reroll 1s  ---> = 29,17 hits

+0 Modifier

catechism ---> 20 + 5 hits = 25 hits

Reroll 1s ---> 20 +3,33 hits = 23,33 hits

-1 Modifier

catechism---> 15 hits

Reroll 1s ---> 15 + 2.5 hits = 17,5 hits

 

Overall catechism is better, but against -1 modifiers it gets worse and worse. Temples like Draichi can benefit greatly from it.

 

[DantePQ]

It depends on how you want to approach a game, with bigger blocks of troops, or 10+ units of Blood Sisters HaggNar is better I believe.

Honestly I'm not a big fun of Catechism as it gets worse as you said and second usually when 20-30 Witches hit the combat it done (especially with HaggNar) just make sure they got Witchbrew. I think +1 to Blood Rites is better as well as Martyr Sacrifice - pray it on big unit and some armies will not like it at all - it gives you extra tactical tool. 

I think I will tweak by army in that direction : 

Morathi with Mindrazor, Cauldron with Amulet and +1 to Blood Rites, Bloodwrack Shirne with Mirror Dance, and +1 to cast and re-rolls of 1), Hag Queen with Martyr's Sacrifice, 5 HeartRenders, 10 Heartrenders, 30 Witches, 2x10 SoS - Slaughter Troupe. It's 5 Drops which isn't amazing but could scrap it for more bodies (for example extra witches). That gives me more movements abilites another big unit with extra mortal wound output and reliable caster. Not a big fun of Mirror Dance but I got to test it out  maybe Steed of Shadows could be good.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

1 hour ago, Keldaur said:

Yep, even if it's 7" from the general, Hag Naggar gives you a solid core that can withstand most stuff.

Just a few random numbers that what you said @DantePQ gave me ideas about. Wondering between catechism against different options.

+1 Modifier

Catechism --->  25 + 10 hits = 35 hits

Reroll 1s  ---> = 29,17 hits

+0 Modifier

catechism ---> 20 + 5 hits = 25 hits

Reroll 1s ---> 20 +3,33 hits = 23,33 hits

-1 Modifier

catechism---> 15 hits

Reroll 1s ---> 15 + 2.5 hits = 17,5 hits

 

Overall catechism is better, but against -1 modifiers it gets worse and worse. Temples like Draichi can benefit greatly from it.

 

Catechism is factored in BEFORE modifiers.

[Keldaur]

30 minutes ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Catechism is factored in BEFORE modifiers.

Damn, that makes it bad and good at the same time. Overall better than +1 blood rites when it comes to hitting stuff (wounding it depends on witchbrew availability and what game round you are at), but poor draichi can't go crazy.