Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

[Richelieu]

4 hours ago, ledha said:

Am i the only one who see the khinerai as meh ? 80 pts for 5 wound and bad resilience, and 5 attacks dmg 1 doesn't seems that good too me. It's cool to have lot of powerful special rules, but it seem useless if the unit die as soon as someone watch it, and do a very little amount of damage

Jeez, what do you want out of an 80 point unit?  They already deep strike, move 14" and Heartrenders hit on 3+ 3+... If they did more damage that would be flat out broken.  No hero would be safe and your entire army would be built around hordes of them.  

[BURF1]

17 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

Jeez, what do you want out of an 80 point unit?  They already deep strike, move 14" and Heartrenders hit on 3+ 3+... If they did more damage that would be flat out broken.  No hero would be safe and your entire army would be built around hordes of them.  

Yeah. They do more damage and have similar resilience to prosecutors (5 wounds 6+ 6+ is not that different from 6 wounds 4+. In kailebron The heartrenders actually have the edge), and this is BEFORE considering things like dirt cheap battalion bonuses, Blood rites giving them free rerolls all over the place, being extremely buffable, being able to move after shooting etc, having their deepstrike built in and guaranteed instead of the random mess that stormcast get, reflecting mortal wounds back if you go after them, etc, all for 20pts cheaper.

Are they going to wipe out a Mawcrusha per turn or take off Nagash round one? No, but for 80 pts they're pretty great.

[Twitch of Izalith]

38 minutes ago, Edgecoc said:

I just want that chariot as a model when Slaanesh eventually gets new models.

you can already get an exalted chariot  

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Exalted-Seeker-Chariot-of-Slaanesh

[zedatkinszed]

2 hours ago, Kaleun said:

https://malignportents.com/story/the-scent/

looks like Morathi will have her Cult of Pleasures once more!

 

 

1 hour ago, Keldaur said:

Erhm... that was not Morathi imo.

That's the Dark Oath Warqueen, Marakarr Blood-Sky. Leading a band of Dark Oath, Chaos undivided barbarians.

[zedatkinszed]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/07/blood-and-faith-part-1-daughters-of-khaine-tacticagw-homepage-post-4/

DoK tactica from warhammer-community.com

[Edgecoc]

1 hour ago, Twitch of Izalith said:

you can already get an exalted chariot  

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Exalted-Seeker-Chariot-of-Slaanesh

No, the one in the story had six seekers and two mortal riders. Maybe kit bash two of these together.

[Qaz]

5 hours ago, ledha said:

Am i the only one who see the khinerai as meh ? 80 pts for 5 wound and bad resilience, and 5 attacks dmg 1 doesn't seems that good too me. It's cool to have lot of powerful special rules, but it seem useless if the unit die as soon as someone watch it, and do a very little amount of damage

I quite like the khinerai, both versions. If you want to compare their survivability or damage output, ya sure meh, average, none threatening. But as a tactical tool, 80 points is dead cheap. Keep a squad up to grab turn 3+ objectives when people start conga-lining large units or leaving single models on objectives. They become a threat to the win-condition.

Heartrenders my be more reliable at hurting things and have 50/50 chance of getting on objective but the lifetakers in a Cauldron Guard on turn 2 have a 56% chance of getting a 8" charge off (+1 for Cauldron guard and rerolling rolls of 1 from allegiance trait).  

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

40 minutes ago, Qaz said:

I quite like the khinerai, both versions. If you want to compare their survivability or damage output, ya sure meh, average, none threatening. But as a tactical tool, 80 points is dead cheap. Keep a squad up to grab turn 3+ objectives when people start conga-lining large units or leaving single models on objectives. They become a threat to the win-condition.

Heartrenders my be more reliable at hurting things and have 50/50 chance of getting on objective but the lifetakers in a Cauldron Guard on turn 2 have a 56% chance of getting a 8" charge off (+1 for Cauldron guard and rerolling rolls of 1 from allegiance trait).  

Agreed.  For their price, they're very effective.  They're not tanking units and are meant for ambushing key points at a pivotal moment.

[DantePQ]

With two games I've played they were amazing (for what they were supposed to do - harrass enemy back line, take objective, inflict some remaining wounds on heroes).

[BURF1]

I think I've settled on the first list I'm going to build the models I have into. As time goes on I'll be adding more of all the infantry but for now this list should do. It also lets me swap back and forth between this and 'suddenly Morathi!' by changing out the blood Sisters, the spells and the artefacts.

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Khailebron

Leaders
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Sacrament of Blood
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
- General
- Trait: Mistress of Illusion 
- Artefact: Blood Sigil 
- Prayer: Catechsim of Murder
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- Artefact: Shadow Stone 
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor

Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
20 x Blood Sisters (480)
- Daughters of Khaine Battleline (Bloodwrack Medusa General)

Units
10 x Khinerai Heartrenders (160)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

Battalions
Slaughter Troupe (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000


 

[BURF1]

So watching the stream, overall the play is solid but some of the finer points of the rules are a bit iffy. He uses the prayers really poorly, even when he doesn't roll 4 ones in a row. He also biffed the first turn movements a bit and missed a chance to possibly knock out a plaguebearer banner with gaze.

[Kaleun]

7 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

So watching the stream, overall the play is solid but some of the finer points of the rules are a bit iffy. He uses the prayers really poorly, even when he doesn't roll 4 ones in a row. He also biffed the first turn movements a bit and missed a chance to possibly knock out a plaguebearer banner with gaze.

do you have the link for us?

I can not see which stream is meant in your post!

[BURF1]

2 minutes ago, Kaleun said:

do you have the link for us?

I can not see which stream is meant in your post!

THE stream. The warhammer TV stream. 

[Twitch of Izalith]

I played my first game with the new book earlier this evening  Morathi is in sub assemblies waiting for paint so just took a load of witch elves (1 x 30 and 3 x 10), medusae, hags, SoS and a couple of units of warlocks. Playing against LoN (Arkhan, Vamp lord on ZD, Necromancers,Skeletons, graveguard, some small units of ghosts and dire wolves). battle for the Pass.

Took Draichi Ganeth for my temple. The small units of witches were really good to make sure I had free units to make charges with and get the temple bonus. 40 attacks hitting on 2's re-rolling 1's from turn 3 is no joke! The Temple was way more effective than I thought it would be. I think I will try it with a Slaughter Troupe next so I can retreat and make even more charges. 

Martyrs Sacrifice was the standout prayer for me. Witches die pretty easily so having a 33% chance to do a mortal wound when they die is really effective! I did 13 mortal wounds with it over the 3 turns it was in play and it won me the game in turn 4 doing 6 mortal wounds on a unit of grave guard which meant I held both central objectives for a turn and the unit was wiped out so couldn't regenerate.

I really like the mechanics for doing damage in the opponents combat turn and I cant wait to get a Temple Nest list on the table. When those skellies and grave guard roll buckets of dice at you they roll a LOT of 1's...

Between Temple Nest, Martyrs Sacrifice, bladed bucklers and heart piercer shields you can do a lot of damage - even on your opponents turn!!

Ok I only had one game but I think thats the mechanic I'm going to focus on for now. I think I will stick with Draichi Ganeth for a few games too even though Hag Nar and Khailebron seem more obvious choices. Maneuvering to get the charge was always one of my favourite parts of 4th to 7th edition warhammer fantasy and the +1 to hit is really strong for an army that survives by killing stuff before it hits them back. 10 Bloodsisters are going to reliably do 6 or 7 mortal wounds when they charge and make crystal touch attacks and then 30 2+, 3+ rend 1 glaive attacks....

Really pleased with how the army plays and I haven't even put any of the new units on the board yet. I didn't really get to do much with magic - they had 5 dispels! Thats my second game against LoN (used Khorne last time and lost quite badly) so it was nice to get the victory 15-13. It was a really bloody game with not much left on either side at the end.

 

[Keldaur]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think skellies will care about temple nest since they get to hit modifiers. Yes, they fail on 1s before modifiers, but the end result will never be a 1 after modifications.

Anyways I am really sad shadow patrol didn't get their own temple to be easier to build a lower drop list, the alpha potential from double teleporting warlocks + withering + heartrenders can be insane shooting with decent rend.

Also kudos for embracing the draichi way

[Qaz]

1 hour ago, Keldaur said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think skellies will care about temple nest since they get to hit modifiers. Yes, they fail on 1s before modifiers, but the end result will never be a 1 after modifications.

Oh. That's sad. Oh well, Cauldron Guard it is then.

[GammaMage]

Really tempted to get some of the slaaneshi mounts to use as Daoomfire Warlock mounts...

 

In other news, I played a small 600pt game against some Sylvaneth. My poor little dagger-and shield witch aelves had to fight scythe-wielding Kurnoth Hunters, meaning they couldn't save due to -2 rend. But after the battle it occured o me that the shields say 'before modifiers'...does that mean that I can roll the saves and do a mortal wound on a 6 even though I still fail the save on a 6?

[Burf]

1 hour ago, GammaMage said:

Really tempted to get some of the slaaneshi mounts to use as Daoomfire Warlock mounts...

 

In other news, I played a small 600pt game against some Sylvaneth. My poor little dagger-and shield witch aelves had to fight scythe-wielding Kurnoth Hunters, meaning they couldn't save due to -2 rend. But after the battle it occured o me that the shields say 'before modifiers'...does that mean that I can roll the saves and do a mortal wound on a 6 even though I still fail the save on a 6?

That is precisely what it means.

[ageofpaddsmar]

So guys having abit of a debate about temple nest. How does the mortal wounds on a one to hit work when the enemy has reroll ones to hit? 

[Keldaur]

11 minutes ago, ageofpaddsmar said:

So guys having abit of a debate about temple nest. How does the mortal wounds on a one to hit work when the enemy has reroll ones to hit? 

After rerolls and modifiers. So yeah pretty bad if the opponent has those.

[Twitch of Izalith]

1 hour ago, Keldaur said:

After rerolls and modifiers. So yeah pretty bad if the opponent has those.

Does it actually say that? I don't have the book in front of me so can't check but from memory it doesn't specify. One for the FAQ maybe.

I assume its after re-rolls but before modifiers like the other abilities in the book so yes, re-rolls of 1 to hit will be a bummer! but not every army gets that - certainly not on every unit (lol except DoK on turn 3  ) 

Even with re-roll ones you will get a few mortal wounds against units rolling buckets of dice in combat - that you wouldn't get otherwise. More than if you bought a wizard and tried to cast arcane bolt every turn anyway.

I still think its pretty good even in the worst case scenario but will obviously need to put it to the test in a few different games.

I think I'm playing a 90 bloodletter murderhost on sunday so expecting that to be a challenge! 

I'm not 100% sure how I will deploy, depending on scenario, murderhost is ok if you get a deep deployment. I don't really see any of our units as "chaff" so I'm not sure who is going out front to take the initial charges  Pretty confident I can ruin their day after that - depending on how much of my army is left.

[Keldaur]

It doesn't say it's before modifiers, that's why i take for granted it works that way. It would need to be explicit about being before modifiers, but it's not.

Lethal Transfixion: Each time your opponent makes a hit roll of 1 when attacking a Temple Nest unit in the combat phase, the attacking unit suffers 1 mortal wound after all of its attacks have been

[Overread]

Here's a question regarding Witch Evils and Sisters of Slaughter that also potentially branches into the Khinari and Medusa. 

In the battletome the both groups of elves have optional weapons, horns and standards. The working is rather, well, vague though I'm under the impression that horns and standards are one per group whilst the bladed bucklers/knife choice that both have can be unit wide or individual units randomly within the group (ergo its not a single "upgrade" for the whole unit).

This thus begs  the question of how you choose to assemble and build the elves (assuming "What you see is what you get" approaches to building the models). 

 

It's interesting to my eye that many army lists I see often just list the number of elves within a group, with no mention of leaders/horns/standards nor of weapons they are equipped with or happens to list both with no mention of the specific number of each. This is quite different to 40K where I'm far more used to seeing very specific discussion about optional equipment when it comes to weapons (upgrades are different as they are typically not modelled). 

So how do you do it, do you keep a standard and horn for large groups and the groups of 10 or so are left without; do you mix and match blades and bucklers or keep them quite distinct - does the kit itself even give you much room to make that choice in itself. 

 

This also branches a little into the khinari and the medusa as both of those have the option of a designated leader unit and, for the simplicity of easy identification on the table, would that be a case where you'd again pick how many to build as leaders or would you just build one per boxed set (ergo group of 5). 

[GammaMage]

The wording for the weapons on the warscroll are 'Some units are armed with' so every model in the unit has to be the same. This is different to some other warscrolls (I think Ironjaws?) that say 'Some models are armed with' which gives you licence to mix and match within a single unit,

[BadgersinMeadows]

Thoughts on this colour scheme? Going to fluff it as a sect of Khainites who tattoo their bodies with flayed skin tattoos in order to inspire fear, but are a bit batty .