DantePQ Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Forgot about that rule of 1 doesn't apply to prayers. Thanks so the choice is quite obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordWynn Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 The book says you can't do a single prayer more than once. Can't give the exact wording but that popped up when I read on them on tuesday when I got to browse the book at my flgs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 It's quite different -if model knows additional prayer from Khainite Cult can pray twice in your hero phase but the same prayer from the table can only be prayed for once in each hero phases That's good as well - Relic with additional prayer is extra strong - would be able to pray twice anyway. - re rolls of 1 when praying as well very good. But three prayers kind of dull as I can already pray twice Also those rules makes Avatars slightly better as well. I must say that this BT is superbly written to kill stacking or other crazy combos that work because of some kind of bad wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Fortress_Immortal Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 minute ago, DantePQ said: It's quite different -if model knows additional prayer from Khainite Cult can pray twice in your hero phase but the same prayer from the table can only be prayed for once in each hero phases That's good as well - Relic with additional prayer is extra strong - would be able to pray twice anyway. - re rolls of 1 when praying as well very good. Also those rules makes Avatars slightly better as well. Jeez, then Khorne shouldn't be able to prayer-stack, imo. We all know that Chaos is favored by GW and the 4 gods will always be on top, but I hope for the dark elves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Traitor Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Well, I believe that with each new BT GW will try to address this issues, it’s just a matter of time. AoS is still a relatively new game and it’s still improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Yes and I like it that they are slowly moving away from stacking abilities etc. DoK BT is very well written with this in mind. And ability to cast two prayers from single Hag is quite good even if prayers aren't very good, also makes Avatar a little better I think I will test it for sure but single Avatar as for now isn't very good I guess it overpriced - for 140-150 I will be more willing to give it a go as it is high bravery, high movement, melee monster that is not losing any abilities with wounds suffered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Ok my battle report : Rooster : Hagnar, Bloodwrack Shrine (General, Amulet of Dark Fire - 4++ against mortal wounds from spells, Shroud of Despair - Bravery debuff), Slaughter Queen on Cauldron (Blood Sigil - +1 prayer, Prayers : Blessing of Khaine - re-rolls of Fanatical Faith, Catechism of Murder - roll of 6 = 2 hits), Hag Queen (Crimson Rejuvenation - heal D3),, 2x10 Sisters of Slaughter (sacrificial knives), 20 Blood Sisters, 5 Heartrenders, 5 Heartrenders, Salughter Troupe Battalion). I played against very good player with his new list - Mixed Order (4xFrostheart Pheonix with Anointed, Branchwych, Waywatcher, 3x10 Skinks, somehting like 6x5 Waywatchers - units). We played Scorched Earth. I made tons of mistakes but it was normal I guess with new army. Quick summary : I got first turn but gave it back, two units of SoS were charged by pheonixes (he made two charges on 8+) and were killed (my bad) so in my turn I transformed Morathi and along with Cauldron crashed into Pheonixes but with their aura and 4++ saves it went horrbile and inflicted only few wounds. I dropped Heartrenders and wow they are amazing - they burned all objectives with their shooting/4+move/charge then retret(thanks to battalion)/shoot/charge. They finally were shot down. Blood Sisters had tough time with another Pheonix withour Blood Rites and were hard to move and play. I finally won in 4th turn tabling my opponent. Mindrazor on Bravery 10 Morathi is awesome with that on and re-rolls of hit she killed two pheonixes. Few points : With two Shrines it's hard to keep everything within reach of 7'' of extra FNP, re-rolls of hit when they finnaly arrived were amazing with this army Blood Sisters in this match up weren't good, without buffs (and there isn't that many of them) they had problems with Pheonix aura, they were hard to manoveur, also you got to keep them close both Cauldron and Medusa with HaggNar (and it's quite diffcult when they are your only big unit and scenario forcesyou to spread out a little bit) otherwise they die fast (I was left with 6) Heartrenders are amazing, Cauldron is amazing as it a) hits hard b) is hard to put down c) give you great platform to cast prayers. Morathi is awesome, sure I changed her first turn to correct my mistake but she's got 8 wounds and that's all but after Medusa died it's easy to put wounds on her but after turn 2 it's game over as she will survive and with Mindrazor on it's awesome (I was lucky to cast in 3 times out of 4 on 7+). It is priceless that she can reliably survive But I think second bigger unit is a must so I think I will tweak my army by taking smaller unit of Blood Sisters and taking big unit of SoS and 2 big units of Heartrenders and cutting down Medusa as it would be easier to use HagNar then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, DantePQ said: But I think second bigger unit is a must so I think I will tweak my army by taking smaller unit of Blood Sisters and taking big unit of SoS and 2 big units of Heartrenders and cutting down Medusa as it would be easier to use HagNar then. Did it feel like it was too difficult trying to support 4 large units? Morathi, Cauldron, Shrine and Blood Sister block is a lot of units hungry for buffs. Might want to beef up the heartrenders for mobility and have a block of Witches or SoS that can serve as chaff and drop the Blood Sisters down to 10, or even two units of 5. I'd also consider switching your general to the Cauldron and medusa to the foot model. Btw, how many points is the Slaughter Troupe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Yes it was diffucult as without buffs they are not very good at their own and HaggNar helps to take much less wounds. I think 10 Blood Sisters should work as fine as 20 as it diffucult to bring all 20 into combat especially with a lot of terrain as we played. I think second spellcaster is fine but not essential. All units without help die fast and you can't keep them together near 5++ so you need little more bodies. Slaughter Troupe is 80. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 thanks for the Battle Report!! What would be things you would change in your list? I think you played against a strong list setup. 4 frosties is nothing to sneeze at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I am thinking about dropping huge Snake unit and Medusa for more bodies. It's hard not to have army spread out and Snakes really need that 5+FF save as die quite quickly. Yep I like his list a lot - 4 Pheonixes + a lot of strong shooting is hard to contain but Heartrenders really shined against his shooters. Also I messed points a little bid and had 80 points too much Cauldron+Bloodwrack is hard to synergise as you won't have that much buffs but a lot of units that need that and need to be close to each other. Next up I will be testing big units of Witches, also I am very tempted by big unit of Doomfires after some theory testing - yep they are expensive but they are great at being second spellcaster especially with Khalibron - you can drop them 9'' of enemy shoot a lot of shots (it will be diffult to get all of them to shot with 10'' range though), cast doombolt with +1 to cast to infilct 6 wounds you can always screen them with Heartrenders if needed and +1 unbid is very nice as they will be in range . Also it's 20 wounds with -1 to hit when shooting + 6+FF they can fight very well as in combat they have 20 rend attacks, 20 no rend attacks. Problem - hard to fit them in. Also that kind of list will have your opponent hard pressed as Kheliborn ability can be used very turn, so you can drop Doomfires Warlocks first turn - shoot as many shots as possible, cast 6 mortals, cast arcan bolt and black horror out of Morathi (on average it's like 2xD3+1 mortals), Mindrazor on Big units of Sister that can run and charge (and even if they don't they will be set up for turn 2 charge as your opponent will think twice about charging unit with mindrazor and some prayers up) and then in second turn - teleport small Morathi - change her into Shadow Queen and have another charge threat with 7'' charge (with re-rolls of 1). Then there is Slaughter Queen CA as well, you can even swap Cauldron for more bodies as it's not neede in such army. Or Bloodwrack Shrine and Blood Sisters in Battleline - like : Kheliborn - Morathi (Mindrazor), Bloodwrack Shrine (4++ against mortals from spells, Steed of Shadows), Hag Queen((Martyr's Sacrifice - 6=2 hits), 20 Blood Sisters, 2x10 Witches, 10 Doomfires, 10 Heartrenders, 5 Heartrenders. = 2000 or Kheliborn - Morathi, Slaughter Queen (Iron Circlet), Hag Queen, 30 Sisters of Slaughter, 30 Witches, 10 SoS, 10 Doomfires, 10 Heartrenders, 5 Heartrenders+ extra battalion (Slaughter Troupe)/extra hag queen/extra heartrenders = 1980. Problem - need to keep Slaughter Queen alive (she's got -1 to hit and FF but still) for 2 turn (could be tricky but possible) or Kheliborn - Morathi, Slaughter Queen on Cauldron(4++ against mortals from spells, 6s=2xhit), Hag Queen(+1 Prayers, Scrament of Blood(Blood Rites +1), Heal), 30 Sisters of Slaughter, 2x10 witches, 10 Doomfires, 10 Heartrenders, 5 Heartrenders and some 70 points spare to work with (can swap SoS for Witches and take 10 SoS in smaller unit and another 5 Heartrenders). The more I think about Kheliborn with big block of Doomfires the more I like it. First option is very magic heavy and very mobile (as Medusa can fly 16'' with Steed of Shadows for another 1-2 turn threat), second has a lot of bodies and third one is mixed of those with possible two units of 10 Heartrenders. Need to test them ASAP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 haha soon will the Warscroll-builder be updated. Then point mistakes are less likely. I am not totally convinced ot the Sisters of slaughter honestly. In my opinion while having 10-20 model squads witches seem better. I guess the Sisters of slaughter start being better if you play 30+ squads. Wich I see problematic because you need alle models in range of the areal-buffs to get them. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Traitor Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Hmmm interesting. Being sincere, I wasn’t too much into the 20 blood sister anyways, too many models with big bases to be effective, specially since you didn’t take temple nest and the -1 to hit temple. The Doomfire Warlocks big unit seems interesting, might struggle against other alpha strike armies thought without proper screen positioning. It would also be interesting to see if an army focused around heartrenders could work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackmcmahon Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 40 minutes ago, The Traitor said: Hmmm interesting. Being sincere, I wasn’t too much into the 20 blood sister anyways, too many models with big bases to be effective, specially since you didn’t take temple nest and the -1 to hit temple. The Doomfire Warlocks big unit seems interesting, might struggle against other alpha strike armies thought without proper screen positioning. It would also be interesting to see if an army focused around heartrenders could work... I actually posted one on reddit last night with celestant prime ally as the big daddy heart render. I want to do that conversion so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 2 hours ago, jackmcmahon said: I actually posted one on reddit last night with celestant prime ally as the big daddy heart render. I want to do that conversion so bad. and do you post it here also?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackmcmahon Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Kaleun said: and do you post it here also?!? Above was actually my first post on here, haha. Khellebron Bloodwrack shrine (move spell and teleport artifact) Morathi Prime 3x10 sisters of slaughter 7x5 heartrenders Depending on army and scenario you can either alpha strike/assassinate or wait for late game/double turn for pumped up khinerai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 KHellebron is Crone Hellebron?? Now called Slaughterqueen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 7 hours ago, Kaleun said: haha soon will the Warscroll-builder be updated. Then point mistakes are less likely. I am not totally convinced ot the Sisters of slaughter honestly. In my opinion while having 10-20 model squads witches seem better. I guess the Sisters of slaughter start being better if you play 30+ squads. Wich I see problematic because you need alle models in range of the areal-buffs to get them. Am I wrong? What is one of the issues MSU units have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Pre orders are up on New Zealand - Khinari and Melusai are both up for sale as well as several battlegrouped options (which are photographed as the battlegroup, even though several include a cauldron kit to get the hero) Khinari look awesome though I think whoever designed them is having a laugh with the tails - one of the smallest contact points for any model I've seen and its got to hold the whole model with wings and all up - I can forsee some creative base work going on to give another contact point or two - that or carrying a pinning kit and pot of glue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 33 minutes ago, Keldaur said: What is one of the issues MSU units have? what do you mean? Do you want to know the problems of MSU armies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, Kaleun said: what do you mean? Do you want to know the problems of MSU armies? I have to apologize, i was going to write down a full post, realized I didn't have the time to and decided not to post... by mistakenly hitting the reply button it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amradiel Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Two boxes of each yes yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Can someone confirm the prayer is just two hits on a 6 (not specified melee/shooting?) I guess they worded it that its only a natural 6? If so this makes Blood Stalkers more interesting, as they would therefore cause 2 mortals on every 6. In this case, it might be worth maybe taking 10 for 320 to dish out some long range mortals? The blood sisters could also be causing 2 mortals per Crystal Touch hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 28 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said: Can someone confirm the prayer is just two hits on a 6 (not specified melee/shooting?) I guess they worded it that its only a natural 6? If so this makes Blood Stalkers more interesting, as they would therefore cause 2 mortals on every 6. In this case, it might be worth maybe taking 10 for 320 to dish out some long range mortals? The blood sisters could also be causing 2 mortals per Crystal Touch hit. Only in combat. And yes it works with Crystal Touch I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackmcmahon Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 4 hours ago, Kaleun said: KHellebron is Crone Hellebron?? Now called Slaughterqueen? I meant the city with -1 to hit at range. Not sure of spelling as I got info on DoK from YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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