DantePQ Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I don't know I would be suprised to see more then one Cauldron and/or one Bloodwrack Shrine in one army. I got 2 Blood Covens some time ago so I'm good to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I really like the look of lifetakers. Looks like they are only 14 ppm if you take 20. Is there anyway to fit them in? that's 40 attacks at 2 damage, 3 damage and -1 rend with Mindrazor. But with Witches you get 120 attacks at two damage with Mindrazor. They cant run and charge but at 14" they don't need to. Rather than use their ambush, Id just keep them alongside the Cauldron turn one with 5+/5++/5+++. then on turn two their are definitely charging. 30 WE are 270 but these would be 280. The only clear advantage is that they might retreat which is funny, or reflect back mortals on a 5+ (if close to shrine) or even 4+ if you cast MS. WE seem better - 1/3 more wounds and battleline, triple the attacks. The movement and retreat don't seem to be a big deal. But while i would not waste attacks to give shields on WE, the lifetakers must have it which is kind of nice. I'm thinking maybe 20 lifetakers alongside 30 WE maybe? I really want to enjoy lifetakers. Is there any battalion to make them better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 On 25/02/2018 at 3:11 PM, Burf said: Leaked french white dwarf had one at 35 euros and the other at 40 euros Gosh! I remember a time where judicators costed 40€ for 5... Now it is 50 for 10.. N I C E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcprowlington Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 34 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said: or reflect back mortals on a 5+ (if close to shrine) or even 4+ if you cast MS. Unfortunately the warscroll states that the 6 must happen BEFORE modifiers, so that 6 cannot be changed like most similar abilities. Seems they're starting to pay attention and distinguish which bonuses they want you to be allowed to build around and what they don't. To me it really seems like they're meant to be used as scalpels - seek out very weak and unprotected ranged units/casters and rush objectives at the last second. or shock troops. only upside of a large squad imo (besides the discount) might be that they have a 50% chance to ignore return melee damage completely if selected to fight first, since their fight and flight ability happens immediately after they make their attacks. So there is a chance they could cause some serious wounds to bigger elite units and escape. You can also combo this with a slaughter queen command ability if you happened to get stuck in combat to potentially do some more damage and get out of there safe. 50% chance is a very difficult thing to build tactics around though, i hope we see maybe a relic or trait or something to up that. Possibly something that interacts with that Khinerae Harpies keyword on their warscroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burf Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, WoollyMammoth said: I really like the look of lifetakers. Looks like they are only 14 ppm if you take 20. Is there anyway to fit them in? that's 40 attacks at 2 damage, 3 damage and -1 rend with Mindrazor. But with Witches you get 120 attacks at two damage with Mindrazor. They cant run and charge but at 14" they don't need to. Rather than use their ambush, Id just keep them alongside the Cauldron turn one with 5+/5++/5+++. then on turn two their are definitely charging. 30 WE are 270 but these would be 280. The only clear advantage is that they might retreat which is funny, or reflect back mortals on a 5+ (if close to shrine) or even 4+ if you cast MS. WE seem better - 1/3 more wounds and battleline, triple the attacks. The movement and retreat don't seem to be a big deal. But while i would not waste attacks to give shields on WE, the lifetakers must have it which is kind of nice. I'm thinking maybe 20 lifetakers alongside 30 WE maybe? I really want to enjoy lifetakers. Is there any battalion to make them better? I FIGURED OUT LIFETAKERS!!!! Draichi Ganeth Hagdron +1 blood rite triple prayer Bloodwrack on balewind with-Bravey Doomfires Mindrazor Slaughter queen Exploding 6s, Draichi relic. Liberators Liberators 6xProsecutors Judicators Blood Stalkers WE WE 20x Lifetakers Shadowhammer compact Let your opponent go first unless heavy, heavy shooting(2 units of judicators+venator is the minimum). Hide the prosecutors and Lifetakers as best you can. Hit balewind->Bravery Debuff-> mind razor on the lifetakers. Then give them triple+1 blood rights, exploding 6s, and witch brew. Have them move with the prosecutors for a 28" first turn move with an average 8ish inch charge range, swinging 40 attacks hitting on 2s exploding on 5s (4s for the sergeant) rerolling, wounding on 4s rerolling, at -1 rend damage 3 against anything bravery 7 or lower. Alternatively you could just take the 20 lifetakers and slightly less in the way of buffing units and not devote yourself so heavily to the gimmick but the basic jist is Shadowhammer compact, Draichi Ganeth, +1 Blood pact, Exploding 6s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 And smart player will just protect valueable units behind chaff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Turn 1 sure. Turn 2 and turn 3 it gets more difficult to chaff properly if you want to contest objectives depending on the list. But for that, you have to have the shooting or ability to occupy objectives to force your opponent's hand into a bad option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Yep but after Turn 1, Lifetakers are usually dead Lifetakers are just much worse then Heartrenders, along with Blood Stalkers they are my biggest disappointment in Battletome. Sure maybe Stalkers can work in some crazy shadowhammer gimmick (it could be quite strong!) but overall I would waste my points on them, for the same cost I got 10 Heartrenders who are just flat out better. Maybe Blood Stalkers fare well compared to Judicators but aren't good enough - sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I am having problem to make them work on my head aswell, to be honest. No extra charge distance is my biggest issue with them. Rerollings 1 on the charge is great, but when you need a 9, they are not really reliable to use and deploying and hiding a 20 women unit is normally very rare where I play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 59 minutes ago, DantePQ said: Yep but after Turn 1, Lifetakers are usually dead Lifetakers are just much worse then Heartrenders, along with Blood Stalkers they are my biggest disappointment in Battletome. Sure maybe Stalkers can work in some crazy shadowhammer gimmick (it could be quite strong!) but overall I would waste my points on them, for the same cost I got 10 Heartrenders who are just flat out better. Maybe Blood Stalkers fare well compared to Judicators but aren't good enough - sadly Yeah my problem is that in a well rounded list the only use I see for Blood stalkers is a unit of 5 for objective camping. But I also want to try a stupid, gimmicky Shadowhammer list but don't want to fork over cash for that many of them. It's the same reason I don't play aetherstrike with my Stormcast. What possible use do I have for 12 raptors outside if that list? Or a vanguard wing. 30 liberators? No thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulksmash Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Are prayers available to allied priests? Like can a Lord-Relictor for instance take lightning chariot? Because if so then the shadow compact is nasty as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 49 minutes ago, Hulksmash said: Are prayers available to allied priests? Like can a Lord-Relictor for instance take lightning chariot? Because if so then the shadow compact is nasty as hell. No, prayers that aren't on warscrolls are allegiance abilities. A lord-relictor can't take lightning chariot unless the army has Stormcast allegiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulksmash Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Still not to bad. You can still pull a really, really nasty charge off turn 1 with a 30 man witch squad. Seems like you can redeploy the 30 man 9-in away with a tail back to a decent prosecutor unit and then move them both (putting the witches 3" away rerolling 1's). Since they're still strung back you can still boost them in various ways before the movement. And then between them and the prosecutors they can easily clear any chaff and maybe more depending on their charge moves. Guess we'll need to see the wording but that's a really, really nasty set up. It's actually a solid reason to put shields on prosecutors as well because you could have a 2+ rerolling 1's save unit up there with your witches to tarpit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfric Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Richelieu said: No, prayers that aren't on warscrolls are allegiance abilities. A lord-relictor can't take lightning chariot unless the army has Stormcast allegiance. Would it be worth taking the Shadowhammer battalion as part of a Stormcast allegiance army then ( assuming it's possible)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riyathe Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 12 minutes ago, Aelfric said: Would it be worth taking the Shadowhammer battalion as part of a Stormcast allegiance army then ( assuming it's possible)? not possible as the battalion allegiance is DoK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 40 minutes ago, Aelfric said: Would it be worth taking the Shadowhammer battalion as part of a Stormcast allegiance army then ( assuming it's possible)? 27 minutes ago, Riyathe said: not possible as the battalion allegiance is DoK To elaborate, the battalion grants the Stormcast units the DoK keyword for the purpose of determining allegiance, but not vice versa. So in order to take it under Stormcast allegiance, the total DoK point cost would have to be 400 or less (ally maximum), which it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfric Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 35 minutes ago, Riyathe said: not possible as the battalion allegiance is DoK Ok thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I love how this Battletome has many little things that needed to be taken into consideration. Amazing work by GW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 This is why I'm wondering if there is a lifetaker battalion. Thinking more about the 'fight & flight", LT can just move after attacking. If you are attacking with 40 2 damage attacks, chances are the unit you are attacking is just dead. Then you can use the 6" aggressively to block out a unit from moving, or to move onto the objective behind them. This is definitely a big advantage over WE. @Burf Sounds like a fun list, but kind of an all-in on lifetakers which will be terrible when they die (and terribly easy to kill them). The entire list is dependent on lifetakers and two units of WE, which isn't the worst thing but once your opponent kills those 800 points in 6+ saves you have almost nothing to work with. Combining the exploding 6s with Draichi Ganeth for exploding 5s is a great idea, but it might be safer to just do this with WE. What is +1 blood pact? 5 hours ago, DantePQ said: And smart player will just protect valueable units behind chaff. This is what is pretty amazing about the 14" move. That gives you a lot of room to fly over the chaff. 5 hours ago, DantePQ said: Yep but after Turn 1, Lifetakers are usually dead Lifetakers are just much worse then Heartrenders, along with Blood Stalkers they are my biggest disappointment in Battletome. Sure maybe Stalkers can work in some crazy shadowhammer gimmick (it could be quite strong!) but overall I would waste my points on them, for the same cost I got 10 Heartrenders who are just flat out better. Maybe Blood Stalkers fare well compared to Judicators but aren't good enough - sadly That's why you can keep LT off the table turn 1. You could also have them MS for a decent 4+ near the cauldron, and either a 6+++ or 5++++ or even double 5+++. It depends on so many factors. If you are playing death or khorne they have nothing to threaten them with first turn. With their incredible movement they can stay outside of most shooting threat ranges. Lets say you have 60 WE and 20 LT, and they are all coming across the table, your opponent has a hard choice to make. I wouldn't expect to lose lifetakers in turn 1. Bloodstalkers are irredeemably bad. They are exceptionally bad when compared to Judicators, who have a better save and typically a lot more attacks, rearolling 1s vs chaos and battleline for SCE. You trade all of that for 3" more move and maybe one mortal wound. They were pre-nerfed because of Morathi's command ability. If you want to get 40 of them with Morathi, well that is a list. That is 40 shots in the hero phase and then 40 shots (6 mortals) in the shooting phase for 1760 points. You literally cant even fit 3 battleline in the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 For 160 I guess they could easily have 2Shooting attacks as their ability wouldn't be triggered by Morathi CA anyway. It's not like it would OP but maybe it could be abused. Anyway that is all we have, maybe there will be some kind of point reduction in Gh2018, maybe 120-130 would be fair. Ok first game coming up tommorow that's list a decided to take HagNar Bloodwrack Medusa Shrine(General) + Amulet of Dark Fire (4++ against mortal wounds from spells), Spell - debuff Bravery Mortahi + Mindrazor SlaughterQueen on Cauldron + re-rolls of FNP prayer + 3xPrayer artefact Hag Queen + 6=2 hits prayer/Heal Hag Queen + D3Wounds heal 2x10 Sisters of Slaughter 20 Blood Sisters 10 Heartrenders 5 Heartrenders Battalion - Slaughter Troupe (SoS and Heartrenders can retreat and still shoot and charge in the same turn) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amradiel Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, DantePQ said: For 160 I guess they could easily have 2Shooting attacks as their ability wouldn't be triggered by Morathi CA anyway. It's not like it would OP but maybe it could be abused. Anyway that is all we have, maybe there will be some kind of point reduction in Gh2018, maybe 120-130 would be fair. Ok first game coming up tommorow that's list a decided to take HagNar Bloodwrack Medusa Shrine(General) + Amulet of Dark Fire (4++ against mortal wounds from spells), Spell - debuff Bravery Mortahi + Mindrazor SlaughterQueen on Cauldron + re-rolls of FNP prayer + 3xPrayer artefact Hag Queen + 6=2 hits prayer/Heal Hag Queen + D3Wounds heal 2x10 Sisters of Slaughter 20 Blood Sisters 10 Heartrenders 5 Heartrenders Battalion - Slaughter Troupe (SoS and Heartrenders can retreat and still shoot and charge in the same turn) Looks sweet. Tell me how it goes. Will you be using proxys or do you have the models allready? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I will be using proxys, I have Witches and HagQueens. Too bad I have to wait two more weeks for Heartrenders I will write raport tommorow it's against strong player and he will be using Sylvaneth or some crazy 4 x FrostheartPheonix mixed Order army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Traitor Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Looks like a cool list, lot's of things you can do with it, good luck and tell us how it goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quina2525 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Right here's mines. Bloodwrack Shrine, (General) Shadow stone Hag Queen on Altar of Blood Khainite Pendant 10x Blood Sisters 10x Blood Sisters 20x Witch elves (2daggers) 5x Blood Stalkers 5x Blood Stalkers 10x Heartrenders 10x Heartrenders Temple nest Battalion Khailebron Temple Comes in at bang on 2000 points. Any thoughts? I really like the temple nest ability. (Any time an opponent rolls 1s to hit in cc against the battalion units, they suffer a mortal for each 1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 The more I am looking at the sisters of the slaughter the more I am liking them. Not sure what equipment, but the pile 6" pile in opens up a lot of shenanigans like retreat+run to get to pile it into another unit (potentially 18" away...) without the need to charge or retreat + run to change their position in a combat to get more favorable terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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