Let's Chat: Ironweld Arsenal

[stato]

13 hours ago, oscisi said:

Hmmmm.. This basically makes it harder for us to hero snipe while still not protecting us from our real enemy: Magic that deals mortal wounds.

The game is shifting, but Ironweld are not out of the game yet.  With the option to use multiple command abilities and an increase in spell casting, there could be a shift to combat armies building 'deathstar' units where they have placed all their eggs in one basket.  Re-focus your artillery on these units and shred them to pieces.  We only went after Heros because they were few and key, if that flips we want to be killing units and we can still do that well!

[Double Misfire]

Not sure if anyone else caught this in the Free Peoples faction focus, but Steam Tanks are going down in points:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/30/30th-may-faction-focus-free-peoplesgw-homepage-post-3/

 

With shooting in general on the wane in AoS 2.0 and all the battletomes written with the new edition in mind having easy ways to counter it a four Steam Tank list may be the Ironweld's best shot at competitive play if they get the same kind of reduction the Grundstock Gunhauler did!

[Double Misfire]

An idea the design studio can have for free: Cannonballs to be replaced by giant plastic models of cannonballs that move 4D6" away from the firing cannon each turn and enemy models have to get out of the way of if they don't want to take a load of mortal wounds.

(Giant plastic cannonballs to be stopped/have their course reset by an opposing cannon firing their own giant plastic cannonballs at them.)

[Aezeal]

On 5/31/2018 at 6:13 PM, Double Misfire said:

An idea the design studio can have for free: Cannonballs to be replaced by giant plastic models of cannonballs that move 4D6" away from the firing cannon each turn and enemy models have to get out of the way of if they don't want to take a load of mortal wounds.

(Giant plastic cannonballs to be stopped/have their course reset by an opposing cannon firing their own giant plastic cannonballs at them.)

Yeah pretty terrible idea though.

[Double Misfire]

So I was all geared up to enter the Necromunda event at Blood and Glory this year (representin' with my squat Venators) when I spotted that Wahammer Achivements will be using unbound lists this year.

 

...

 

 

Dare I? ?

[Cinncinnatus]

[Marrdt]

So, I was looking through the Dark Elves Legends rules and noted two things. 

• The unit scrolls more closely resemble the the newer cards, in wording and design. This is obviously subjective and might just be wishful thinking.
• The Repeater Bolt Thrower scroll has been changed in an interesting way. It has two separate weapons profiles which are given as choices in the missiles section, which is a change from previous representations. More importantly, however, it no longer has a crew. The crew is still on the board and must stay close, but it is essentially all one model.

The description text:

Spoiler

DESCRIPTION A Reaper Bolt Thrower consists of a Bolt Thrower and a crew of two Dark Elves. The Bolt Thrower is armed with Reaper Bolts, while the Dark Elves are armed with Hand Weapons. The Bolt Thrower and its crew are treated as a single model, using the characteristics given above. The crew must remain within 1" of the Bolt Thrower.

Check it out in the compendium if you would like: Dark Elves Legends (Compendium)

If one was to assume, as I do, that the newly released Legends section for the Dark Elves has been desgined with AoS2 in mind, this might indicate a potential rework for all artillery units. Considering that they are going to release a new piece of stormcast artillery and have put an emphasis on artillery through the Lord Ordinator, this might indicate that this kind of a change might be coming for all pieces in the new edition.

Again, I dont want to start rumors and most of this is just conjecture, but If I were a betting man I would lean towards this being the new standard. It is also possible its just Legends stuff and completely unrelated though, as well. Even then, I think they would not use completely different design principles.. that would be surprisingly much effort for things they don't plan to make too much money on.

[Double Misfire]

2 hours ago, Marrdt said:

So, I was looking through the Dark Elves Legends rules and noted two things. 

• The unit scrolls more closely resemble the the newer cards, in wording and design. This is obviously subjective and might just be wishful thinking.
• The Repeater Bolt Thrower scroll has been changed in an interesting way. It has two separate weapons profiles which are given as choices in the missiles section, which is a change from previous representations. More importantly, however, it no longer has a crew. The crew is still on the board and must stay close, but it is essentially all one model.

The description text:

  Reveal hidden contents

DESCRIPTION A Reaper Bolt Thrower consists of a Bolt Thrower and a crew of two Dark Elves. The Bolt Thrower is armed with Reaper Bolts, while the Dark Elves are armed with Hand Weapons. The Bolt Thrower and its crew are treated as a single model, using the characteristics given above. The crew must remain within 1" of the Bolt Thrower.

Check it out in the compendium if you would like: Dark Elves Legends (Compendium)

If one was to assume, as I do, that the newly released Legends section for the Dark Elves has been desgined with AoS2 in mind, this might indicate a potential rework for all artillery units. Considering that they are going to release a new piece of stormcast artillery and have put an emphasis on artillery through the Lord Ordinator, this might indicate that this kind of a change might be coming for all pieces in the new edition.

Again, I dont want to start rumors and most of this is just conjecture, but If I were a betting man I would lean towards this being the new standard. It is also possible its just Legends stuff and completely unrelated though, as well. Even then, I think they would not use completely different design principles.. that would be surprisingly much effort for things they don't plan to make too much money on.

I noticed this too and got worried about how horrendously lazy it seemed (it would still make our artillery marginally harder to kill, but that's not the point), but with the announcement of the Celestar Ballista, I can't see GW giving announcing a new piece of seperately crewed artillery (with such massive crew no less) and giving it such undynamaic rules.

Let's wait and see what the Ballista's warscroll looks like in the second faction focus later today before we start tearing our beards out about the Ironweld's future.

[Double Misfire]

You called it @Marrdt!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/06/faction-focus-stormcast-eternals-part-2gw-homepage-post-3/

Not the solution I would have gone for, but it looks like our artillery is going to get overall a little more survivable, with the option to model the machine and crew on the same base if you choose to. Personally I'd have given them a higher combined wounds score, but whatever. ?

Still, the Celestar Ballista straight up sucks compared to our stuff, so that's a massive relief. ?

[eciu]

So new balista is double better than a cannon when within 18" ?

[CaptainNippon]

A potential 24 hits with 3+ to wound and -2 rend at 18" is nothing to sneeze at. 

[Double Misfire]

2 hours ago, eciu said:

So new balista is double better than a cannon when within 18" ?

I don't know where you got that from. A cannon with an Engineer and Ordinator present is going to be hitting and wounding a lot more reliably as well as being able to reroll damage against big units.

2 hours ago, CaptainNippon said:

A potential 24 hits with 3+ to wound and -2 rend at 18" is nothing to sneeze at. 

It is when it's got move 3 and you're going to be averaging 7 of those hits.

I can see the Celestar Ballista being worth a punt deepstriking into cover and near a Lord-Ordinator using the Stormcast allegiance abilities, but give me the range and consistent damage of a duardin-forged cannon anyday. Hell, I'd take an Organ Gun over it!

[CaptainNippon]

1 hour ago, Double Misfire said:

I don't know where you got that from. A cannon with an Engineer and Ordinator present is going to be hitting and wounding a lot more reliably as well as being able to reroll damage against big units.

It is when it's got move 3 and you're going to be averaging 7 of those hits.

I can see the Celestar Ballista being worth a punt deepstriking into cover and near a Lord-Ordinator using the Stormcast allegiance abilities, but give me the range and consistent damage of a duardin-forged cannon anyday. Hell, I'd take an Organ Gun over it!

A matter of point cost and preference. 

The Ballista is stronger defensively and has a higher variance in performance, but can potentially hit for double the damage of the cannon.

It's going to be better used deepstriking in Stormcast Allegiance for sure, though.

[oscisi]

2 minutes ago, CaptainNippon said:

A matter of point cost and preference. 

The Ballista is stronger defensively and has a higher variance in performance, but can potentially hit for double the damage of the cannon.

It's going to be better used deepstriking in Stormcast Allegiance for sure, though.

But then it's gonna get charged and not be able to shoot out of combat. Maybe the next Stormcast artillery piece will be stronger at long range, which is how I prefer to set up my artillery batteries.

[Double Misfire]

1 minute ago, CaptainNippon said:

A matter of point cost and preference. 

The Ballista is stronger defensively and has a higher variance in performance, but can potentially hit for double the damage of the cannon.

It's going to be better used deepstriking in Stormcast Allegiance for sure, though.

A unit of 20 skinks with blowpipes could potentially out damage a cannon at range. They're not going to.  

Wait and see on durability. If summoned units are all getting updated warscrolls on the 30th I wouldn't be shocked if the seven crewed artillery pieces that haven't been legacy'd won't be brought in line with the Celestar Ballista.

[Double Misfire]

I'm sure the Celestar will cost less points than a Cannon and will probably be avalibe as part of a cool warscroll battalion lead by a Lord-Ordinator that gives it all kinds of crazy bonuses so I'm not writing it off at all.

I doubt I'll ever use it mind because I play Ironweld for this

not this

[CaptainNippon]

10 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

A unit of 20 skinks with blowpipes could potentially out damage a cannon at range. They're not going to.  

Wait and see on durability. If summoned units are all getting updated warscrolls on the 30th I wouldn't be shocked if the seven crewed artillery pieces that haven't been legacy'd won't be brought in line with the Celestar Ballista.

I'd expect the same, but the Ballista still gets +1 cover. Anyway, as long as we don't know the point cost, it's hard to make a final judgement.

Generally I do prefer units with lower reliability and higher potential, which I assume is a particularly un-dawi attitude to have . I'm more of a ratman in that regard - sweet, sweet Ratling gun was probably the most satisfying and yet frustrating piece of weaponry and game mechanics I've ever fielded. 

 

[Double Misfire]

1 minute ago, CaptainNippon said:

I'd expect the same, but the Ballista still gets +1 cover. Anyway, as long as we don't know the point cost, it's hard to make a final judgement.

Wouldn't be shocked if fused profile Ironweld stuff gets a cover bonus too. Crews do currently have a cover bonus of sorts, always counting as being it it. As you said though, wait and see!  

Quote

Generally I do prefer units with lower reliability and higher potential, which I assume is a particularly un-dawi attitude to have . I'm more of a ratman in that regard - sweet, sweet Ratling gun was probably the most satisfying and yet frustrating piece of weaponry and game mechanics I've ever fielded. 

Least dwarf attitude imaginable, and that was before you namedropped skaven. You my friend are either suspiciously tall or have a tail.  ??

[Sieggi858]

11 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

You called it @Marrdt!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/06/faction-focus-stormcast-eternals-part-2gw-homepage-post-3/

Not the solution I would have gone for, but it looks like our artillery is going to get overall a little more survivable, with the option to model the machine and crew on the same base if you choose to. Personally I'd have given them a higher combined wounds score, but whatever. ?

Still, the Celestar Ballista straight up sucks compared to our stuff, so that's a massive relief. ?

What? You’re not allowed to have all 3 be on the same base. In every picture they’ve shown the crew has been separate, otherwise how would you determine cover or pile in the crew?

[Double Misfire]

On 6/7/2018 at 4:23 AM, Sieggi858 said:

What? You’re not allowed to have all 3 be on the same base. In every picture they’ve shown the crew has been separate, otherwise how would you determine cover or pile in the crew?

"The Ballista and its crew are treated as a single model, using the characteristics above. The crew must remain within 1" of the Ballista."

The ballista's crew don't pile in and attack, and it and it's two crew are essentially a single model on a Mickey Mouse shaped base, meaning that if someone wanted to model the ballista and crew on a single base to create a cool mini diorama like the one below it would have minimal to no impact on gameplay, unlike the current Ironweld (and Gitmob) crewed artillery, who's crew function in-game as a seperate unit and are able to be targeted separately and removed individually.  

[Kramer]

On 6/6/2018 at 11:44 PM, CaptainNippon said:

sweet, sweet Ratling gun was probably the most satisfying and yet frustrating piece of weaponry and game mechanics I've ever fielded. 

The flame thrower has taken that position in my games since Aos dropped. I never had a flamer thrower fire more than twice in a game without dying ?The Ratling guns are surprisingly reliable. in comparison of course  

[Ciliegioinfiore]

The celestar ballista costs 100pts !

[GeneralZero]

12 minutes ago, Ciliegioinfiore said:

The celestar ballista costs 100pts !

source please?

[MacDuff]

At that point cost it's worth scratch-building a few extras. If you have a few boxes of Vanguard-Raptors (who doesn't?), you start to amass a lot of extra bows. I want to glue a few together, scrounge the bits box for legs & explosive warheads, and make a battery of them.

[Double Misfire]

On 6/12/2018 at 1:50 AM, xking said:

I think you are looking at the Ballista in isolation, You forget that stormcast have a lot of abilities that effect other stormcast or sacrosanct units. We have not seen all of the new heroes  abilities and they are getting a spell lore.  I think it is unwise to underestimate the stormcast artillery.

 

Also the Celestar Ballista is duardin-forged, by duardin demigods. 

Current stuff doesn't have anything affecting ranged attacks outside of the Ordinator. At only 100 points the Ballista's really not terrible in a Stormcast list it's able to deepstrike in.