Mcthew

You do wonder sometimes what goes through GW's head. With Wight Kings and Black Knights being rubbished by their new warscrolls, who in their right mind would buy a Soulblight SC boxset? Pointless.

They haven't yet said how they are going to manage the double-turn, so it will be premature to say whether it will be a fail or not in AoS 3.0. Sure, you can expect the worst and hope for the best until by the time AoS 3.0 lands you're done with the hobby. Or you can keep the faith that GW won't sink all this money in to a game only to mess it up. It's up to the individual. Personally I'm going with the latter - GW have made some mistakes, but to mess up AoS 3.0 will end the careers of some in this hobby (no pressure guys). I'm confident that step changes point towards AoS 3.0 being an improvement to the experiences of most players. My only hope is that the rules are properly play-tested by true gamers, not 'yes-men' fanboys who think GW do no wrong.

Gotta agree with both sides here (just to be a pain). It's messy but glad releases are not tied up to battletomes. Still, it smacks of chaos (literally) in the planning. And pretty much shoots down the point of the warscrolls packs. £9 for warscrolls that are incomplete or FAQ'd within a couple of months is like setting fire to money. Who on earth would buy separate warscroll cards now? Fail.

Yep - quite glad the schedule has been paused, because honestly it's a mess. Hedonites of Slaanesh gets a new battletome but they forget to include one of the biggest models for Slaanesh in years (see today's reveal). So now the 2nd battletome in 3 years is immediately out of date. Similarly with LRL and 2 tomes within 12 months, smacks of a planning department with little sense of strategy. They may emphasise the issues of supply and demand. But it really feels like it's not being managed properly at all. No other business could get away with this. Perhaps we're just used to settling for less?

So, gonna be a wee bit negative by saying really not looking forward to many new models? Well, that is to say, my bank manager won't be. Current trends are showing massive hikes in costs (look at the recent boxsets) and the only real value comes from those old sets. We're struggling to get new blood into the game as the new models RRP are near double from a few years back and don't appear to show signs of bucking that inflation. So my wishlist? Anything that's sensibly priced. Alas, I think it will only be a wish I think.

Again, a yes from me. But like so many others, it isn't the MW tool that is the problem, but how the writers are using it. Magic MWs are pretty acceptable, as are some MWs from weapons and abilities. It's the sloppy writing that tries to compensate for poor rules insight that causes the problems. Such as 'this model can clear its nose and inflict D3 mortal wounds on any unit within 3"' and only because the model's melee weapon is hitting on 4 and wounding on 3 with no rend, but GW has to sell these models so there needs to be something that's attractive about them in the warscroll. MWs have become the goldrush of AoS mechanics and no one is saying it needs to stop or the writers need to do their jobs better. Otherwise we might as well resort to 'rock, paper, scissors, stone' contests. (So yeah, I like mortal wounds, it just needs to be reined in).

Trying to work out who on here has read the actual book (not a summary of it). Waiting to pick up a copy but before that an honest review of the book from the TGA community? Cheers 👍

Alternate activations would also make army building more interesting. Where one player might limit drops to get the initiative for that first unit move, another might go for more units to give them more options vs their opponent (and less counter moves). However as units get wiped off the table it does mean that subsequent turns could get very boring for the player left with one unit of battleline and a single hero. Swings and roundabouts, really.

I've chimed in with a few things I want for AoS 3.0, but now for what I don't want, because we know GW does read this forum. I reckon some of you out there have heard about what happened with the recent Kill Team release (re boxed old kit, with reduced contents but prices whacked up by 20% to name just one thing). Since the new 40k edition there appears to be a steep price rise = less content that might make any AoS 3.0 release a costly affair. I would love there to be an AoS 3.0 Soulwars box*, but I wouldn't be prepared to pay £120 for it, particularly if it had less models than Soulwars. At the moment GW pricing is all over the place so I look at AoS 3.0 with measure of scepticism. This isn't a post to set hares running, but I'm gonna be pretty cautious about any AoS 3.0 release, and the new Cursed City release will be a bench mark (52 minis and lots of other goodness, but leaked prices show a massive jump). *Although pretty stoked to see what the Ruination chamber is gonna look like. Grim-darker stormcast anyone?

Yep. It was a collective 'one.' 😁

I love that command trait. Probably due to being shortchanged by the LRL on the artefacts too. Definitely will put this on a Warden King. Kinda feels fitting...

Agree - it works fine for the minis and how to start playing the game. For the lore only you're better off with the Core book, or even the AoS Soulbound RPG rule book. If its a mix of minis and rules get the starter box such as Tempest of Souls or better still the Soul Wars boxset (which should be the same as around 12 issues of MR magazine). I get MR on a irregular basis as they have some £15-20 models there for less than half price. But you also overpay on the paint set issues too, so beware.

Since AoS 2.0 I have to agree that aside from Slaanesh, the studio hasn't shown Chaos much love. An awful battletome for Beasts of Chaos, a messy tome for Tzeentch, a substandard tome for Khorne, and no new tome for Nurgle. Slaves to Darkness disappointed many too. Skaven had the best tome but only 1 new model in the last 8 years. But... We've also seen massive improvements in those anti-pointy-ears boys, the Kharadron Overlords who can shoot LRL off the table, so some things are sneaking through. Let's see what they do with the Belakor BR book to see if this anti-Kelly feeling is justified...

Was going to 'like' this post, because it really is a good post. Except that again this is based on someone else's summary of the narrative. If I based my opinion of a story on someone else's summary of a book or film, I'd not have read or watched half of what I have (seriously, would've avoided all Star Wars movies or Star Trek, and forget most fantasy films!) We need to be patient, and read the book first, rather than assume the quality of it. (We all know what 'assume' does.) But... I do like your post so I'm gonna like it for constructing a good argument about Nagash being centre stage for a whole edition 😉 and that the plot doesn't diminish a good story for Death!

So... Reading this thread through, a few questions spring to mind: Has anyone here actually read the new BR book cover to cover? Does this temporary destruction of Nagash and Arkhan mean you can't play them in games? Does the defeat of Death (again) denigrate the Allegiance? I suppose compared to the constant defeats suffered by Order during the Realmgate Wars? Or compared to Destruction who don't have any gods in play and barely feature in any narrative book? To put my questions in context, I too have Nagash and 3k worth of Death miniatures. Do I find the plot problematic? No. Do I think GW are writing narratives where Order prevail? No. In fact, I think this is quite balanced and I'm quite stoked to see how Death rebound. And they will. Order, on the hand, are ready to rip themselves apart through divisions and you can just sense Chaos taking advantage. Personally I think this is shaping up nicely and a fine change compared to the 1 act play of Malign Portents and the churn of the Realmgate Wars... just MHO though.

Completely agree. And this rule has been around for ages. I suspect that the points cost of horrors might reflect that in big blobs battleshock can cause them to split, narratively or not, otherwise this would've been faq'd a while back. (And let's face it, this is one of the easiest of AoS rules to clarify). If fleeing 'is counted as slain' and battleshock applies to units with 'models slain during that turn,' and battleshock can only apply once per unit unless an ability says otherwise, then sadly the narrative is broke and fleeing horrors explode when fleeing (maybe Tzeencth is upset with their cowardice and seeks change?). But agree that narratively this 'splitting' on fleeing rule sucks. It needs to join the queue of ridiculous rules, though, so take a number friends... 😁

From a player who wasn't too impressed by the initial LRL wave, I am seriously excited by the new releases. Absolutely awesome. Glad I bought my Ltd Ed battletome now. Although I think my bank manager will be wringing his hands in despair. I can see a few hundred quid disappearing over the next few months. (I mean, seriously... wow... If Sigvauld is beautiful then what are these??)

Agree. Line of sight rules need to be better. As do scenery rules. There's plenty that could restrict shooting meta to more manageable levels. For example, plagueclaw and LRL cruise missile rules are just plain silly. If there is large scenery between you and a target, it should be at least-1 to hit, if allowing them to target that unit at all. Flying units are just as problematic. If you are behind a building, how could a frigate blast you unless they are right on top of the building? Melee is more precise within the game's mechanics. Shooting I guess should match melee for accuracy, otherwise why have it? Same with magic really.

Yep - did this with my poison globe mortar team. Worked out like a dream, yes-yes. Just to clarify, never mentioned cash prices in the above. And agree, completely overpriced models, but that's a different thread.

For me, Skaven are the most balanced, both on abilities and points wise. They have shooters, brawlers, magic-flingers and suicide units all wrapped up in one furry package, points-costed reasonably. And totally unpredictable on the tabletop. An absolute joy to play with and against. They show what's good and works about AoS 2.0.

I wouldn't want shooting to be deadlier if I'm honest. As a KO player I often experience embarrassment when I shoot a player off the board by round two. But then that's GWs fault for synergies around shooting only when melee is clearly KO's worst attribute. The mechanics of the game work fine. It's the points balance and tweaking of abilities that don't. Why GW can't get these right only they know, but they won't say. Cow-Elfs, Clown-skulls and Flyin'-Dwaarfs all have had abilities that break matched-play, yet GW persist with this strategy. Like they want to undermine their own game... Or the more cynical could say it's about encouraging people to buy more than one army (or more than one battletome every 12 months). It works though. I do wonder how many competitive players have ditched their Bonereapers for Realmlords in the last 12 months?

Had no idea there was a Great Game equivalent within the ORDER allegiance (maybe the "Great Khaine"?). Was thinking not a discreet rule set but Realm rules for the Realm of Chaos and the 4 lands within (ahem, sorry, 5 if you include Blight City). We've been homebrewing something like this for a while in battles between Slaanesh and Khorne, but nice to have something official. AoS 2.0 had sections for playing in the different realms, so see no reason not to again. Sure, it might be Chaos-centric to include these, but for the sake of a few pages, it's hardly taking up GW's time. Afterall if they can produce 2 LRL battletomes in 12 months I reckon GW have the resources to create nine pages or so of lore and rules for AoS 3.0?

Soooo... Balance, meta and double-turns aside, I'd also like the rules to play tbe Great Game in the Realm of Chaos, between massive armies of daemons, across crazy-assed terrain with bonkers rules. Something where balance doesn't matter but scratching ones head does as you try figuring out what the heck is going on across a battlefield of farting mushrooms the size of mountains or seas of boiling blood. Something that is so Chaos, it makes the Mortal Realms feel like a petting zoo. Not sure if that's doable, but heck, I'd love to see GW try...

Absolutely! Resellers are doing a roaring trade. Of that side of the hobby, Games Workshop doesn't see a penny. Admittedly these days out of £100 I spend on the hobby, GW sees about £20 of my money. The rest is via resellers. That has changed from 5 years ago when it was more like £60-70. But due to waves of price increases my buying habits changed. So in effect, GW gets less of my money now, even though I'm buying more. Factor in 3D printing and there is no value to GW as largely you won't see a huge difference in the quality between official and fake. And even if you do, do you really care? GW seem intent on milking their fans and while I love their product, I don't like the business model. I no longer have qualms about where I buy my hobby from, as long as its not directly from GW - it is massively overpriced for what it is.

It's not just the model price rises either. I mean, 2 Lumineth battletomes in 12 months? Is this what we should expect? Incomplete lore and rules that you have the privilege of buying twice? I'm surprised Lumineth players have taken this so well. What about AoS 3.0? Are we expected a split release for the core book? I was a wee bit annoyed that Hedonites needed another book, but this could get out of hand. GW are not covering themselves with glory here. Sure Lumineth players are wetting themselves but for many others you start feeling like you're being played. It's not a nice feeling really. Edited for a personal reflection: I'm keeping an eye on GW. I may need to take a loooong break (a few years) from this hobby if this persists.