Qrow

My local scene is smallish, maybe a dozen people on the best of days. If I got to a bigger city there are heaps more, but that would require an around 4 hour round trip. So my actual local scene is fairly split, but the main AoS players are the type to by whatever the newest, most OP army is (and complain everytime that they have to by new models to stay competative, instead of just playing what they like). I don't want my armies to dominate, both of my main armies are in the lower ranks and I haven't even played the FS army because I want to play it painted. I do, however, want to be able play whichever army I want and not get demolished before we even get models on the table. If I take nighthaunt against skaven, then my 200+ point heroes will be blown off the table before I get a chance to even use them, if it isnt them it is whatever heroes I do take. It isn't fun. So I totally get where you are coming from, I don't want to dominate others, I just want to know I had a chance to begin with.

If the cost of the lords of the lodge battalion also increased to 160, then I would be 100% ok with this; that would be a ~80 point hit to the more popular lists. I just take umbrage to the idea of HGB going up to 150/900 when there are clearly far stronger armies out there that are getting signficantly less sever nerfs. Edit: me not math good. So yeah, gonna leave that shame out for people to see. That would actually change nothing sadly. The drop in vulkites and RFoMD would lead to an overall net change of 0 in most of the competative lists. Increase lords of the lodge to 160, remove horde bonus, lower the others just as you said. Boom, 80 point increase in list cost. Problem is though, most people complaining are mainly complaining about the lords of the lodge battalion. Unless the battalion ability itself is changed then no amount of point changes will stop it from happening. People will simply trim their lists of the 240ish spare points that you have left over after the cornerstone units and keep on playing the same way. If you jump the points up to 900 it will still be the same, they may lose at most 5 HGB models in their big unit at the expense of punishing everyone that doesn't abuse the LotL battalion and the rest of the army, with a total of 3 units to choose from FS is extremely hard to balance if you want all units to see the table. Same as FeC and to an extent HoS, no amount of point changing can fix a broken ability.

Or just take a couple chaff units and block them off with it. Stretch 10 chainrasps in front of it, they can MOV4 around it or charge an 80 point unit, mulch it, then bam, another 10 man chainrasp unit. Two turns and 160 point killed, similar to how to deal with Old witch aelves spam except it is literally one unit that can only move 4" and cost a good third of their army points. They do need a nerf, I'm just surprised to see people advocating a bigger nerf to them than to the actual top tier armies. The average DoK list went up what, 120-130ish points? And people want to see a 300+ increase in the average FS lists.

To be honest, I can see the reason some people are calling for a nerf. It is the people calling for a 40 point nerf that I disagree with, especially in conjunction with removing the horde bonus. It is also frustrating when they act like a 300+ point jump on a list is not a big deal, especially on an army that is not considered to be one of the most broken or dominating tournaments. Try telling a skaven or FeC player that you want to see there competative lists go up 300 or more points and see how popular the idea will be. Even DoK didn't jump up 300 points, and they are way more dominating than FS. Add in that the unit is one of only three in the entire army and it is a delicate balance. Do they need a nerf? Probably, but no matter how much you say "adapt and play another way" it is difficult with such an extremely small number of units to choose from. Hell, most of the people complain about them getting to attack twice, so just up the cost of the battalion and remove horde discount, done.

I think you touched on a part of the problem, without the hearthguard being OP, what else do FS have? If they do increase the hearthguard then what else do FS have? They aren't touching the level of the top 4 armies and if you take away the one gimmick they have then it may just tank them completely. I would be more inclined to massively increase the cost of the battalion and then remove the horde bonus. If they increase the battalion by say... 60ish, then that alone would be a 180 point increase in the points of that build, which is higher than most other OP armies received. If they did increase them by 40, then a max unit will cost 960 points. FS main weakness is board control at the moment, very few units and it relies solely on one unit to carry weight. I think part of the problem is that, with so few units, it become hard to balance them. If one unit is terrible, then the others must be good to make up for it. All in all, fyreslayer need a bridging unit like gore-gruntas or something. More variety so that the entire roster isn't tanked if they nerf one unit. So come on GW, dwarfs riding smaller dragons or something.

So what about the upcoming fyreslayers nerf? I have seen people calling for/expecting to see hearthguard beserkers go up 20 points AND lose their horde bonus, but if they did that it would be the single biggest nerf to a unit in all AoS, it would be a 240 point increase in the cost of the unit. While I understand it is overperforming, I can't imagine FS remaining competetative with such a big nerf. I could see the horde bonus going or an increase in cost, but both together would be overkill.

I hope they don't go up in price and lose the horde bonus, I feel that would be overkill. They didn't even nerf DoK witch aelves that hard, are hearthguard that much worse? Also, are any of the lodges considered cheesy? I'm planning on using Hermdar because I like the objective focused buffs (I forget the objectives to much, this will force me to stick to them), but I would prefer to avoid being 'that guy' if possible.

What changes, if any, do you expect fyreslayers to get with the july errata? I have been slowly growing a Fyreslayer army to surprise my LGS and have close to the a full 2000 points built (painting is still taking a while), but I haven't had the chance to really playtest them yet. The only thing I have heard others say is that the horde discount on hearthguard units might go.

To be honest I wish they would kill this entire 'out of activation sequence' gimmick they have going right now. Slaanesh, fyreslayers and FeC all have this ability the flat say "no, I'm going first" and just remove any actual strategy and choice out of the combat phase.

Nope, not at all, it just offers a different way to play them. The easiest way to differentiate them is: Nighthaunt offer mobility shenanigans and potentially massive hitting power LoG offers bravery shenanigans and unit recursion. Thankfully, neither one will override the other, it just means we have two ways to play the same army.

I was doing the same last week, the past few had been out on the wednesday 2 and a half weeks after their release. Suppose forbidden power probably has a lot more questions though. I hope it is out today though, it would make sense to be out before their next large release. As they have promised an errata in july with additional point changes for newer battletomes, I doubt they want to have more than just that on their plate after this weekend

Ahh... so the archregent is a 30 point model, that is totally balanced and in no way breaks any semblance of point efficiency 😣 Yeah, no idea what GW was thinking these past few battletomes. Feels like they just decided to completely change the baseline power of the game and somehow thought it wouldn't frustrate the rest of us.

@HammerOfSigmar You touched on one of the issues that confuses me, a 200 point unit able to summon a 170+ point unit is ridiculous. Even if you take into account buying a command point to use that ability, that still leaves the archregent as a 80 point model. I think they planned to nerf the summoning ability by limiting you to one purchaseable command point, but that simply means they will have to wait 1 or 2 turns to complete all of their summons. @prochuvi I feel underwhelmed by the GHB changes so far, but if they do a decent job of the july FAQ and reign in the newer factions a little I will feel significantly better about it overall.

Really want that errata to come out so that I can feel assured that I am actually playing the rules correctly, especially in an upcoming friendly tournament. Still enjoying the LoG, tried out olynder in a few games and found there is actually some decent power there for her. Had her in a list with reikenor, a mortis engine and 2 banshees against a slaanesh player. The amount of mortal wounds I put out from screams, the mortis engine and olynder was great; practically shredded the HoS players infantry on turn one and reduced them to only their big heroes. Still don't think she is worth losing the dreadblade as a general, the dreadblade is just to versatile with its teleport, but it was fun to play with.

I agree with this. At one point during wishlisting for the GH a few weeks ago people were talking about what point cost dreadscythe harridans should be, and how to vary the bladeghiest/grimghast/dreadscythe role in the army. The problem is that, when the only thing adjusted is the point cost, it become a simple maths problem; which one is the most efficient for its points. They are all largely the same with very similar roles, and whichever one is the most efficient will be spammed while the others will be left to casual games. It is the nature of competition, why would you disadvantage yourself and not take the most efficient option. I'll admit my last point was poorly made (and I didn't realise how much overlap there is in chaos). As a primarily nighthaunt player who is just beginning to use the legion of grief, the issue of too many units vying for the same role has really become apparent.

I'm low-key hoping that there will be slight changes to some of the LoA units when they release the update. A fools hope, but it could happen. Im happy with 95% of our roster myself, just not happy with the points/usefulness of drazhoath and the dreadquake. How those two units got cleared without any change in points confuses me.

Oh yeah, as a nighthaunt player, I'm bitter. But not at LoN or its players, at GW for not seeing this issue ahead of time. Death as a faction has too much overlap between allegiances in its army roster, on top of too many units competing for the same role. Whatever new faction/battletome death get this year, I really hope it is entirely seperate from the rest of the roster. No unit overlaps at all, despite Nagash being the god of death they need to seperate the allegiances out. And for love of all GW, don't give LoN access to any of the new units outside of possibly allies. Personally, kinda hoping for undead pirates; they are quite popular in total warhammer and would give idoneth an actual threat to deal with. They are far too safe living under the sea...

Yeah, no point changes at least.

Yep, 40 assembled and painted bladeghiest here, though they didn't seem too bad after the bloody spirit hosts. To think, I originally was considering having 18 spirit hosts for the execution horde... I think even GW has no idea what to do with stalkers, they frankly need a rework because no realistic drop in points is going to make them worth taking over other options. I do agree on the wight kings though, I anticipated a 20 point drop for them.

I'm still going to argue for dreadscythe harridans, the reduction in cost only solidifies that they are good to take for me. I have even been considering taking a knight of shrouds on foot with 20 harridans, making him the general with the tragic emanations trait and giving him gryph-feather charm; it would allow him to keep up with the harridans, give him a -1 to hit all the time and a -2 to hit at range, give off the -2 bravery debuff from the trait, and his command ability is statically (almost insignificantly, but still) better for the harridans than the mounted version. All for only 100 points, though it is hard to beat a dreadblade harrow general now that he is also only 90 points...

I think I need to wait for the july errata that will give point changes to the more recent battletomes before I can fully judge our point changes. If the new tomes get hit hard, then our new changes will begin to feel better for me. However, if GW just incrementally increases even the ludicrously costed units in the news tomes (if the verminlord warpseer only goes up 20 points ima be mad) then I will feel really salty. I'm alright with most of the nighthaunt changes, at least it feels like they see what units need help, although the grimghast increase is frustrating and I'm guessing even GW doesn't know what to do with stalkers. It does feel like GW set this GH up to be the start of more frequent point changes, as in that most units only went down a little in preparation for more incremental decreases over the year. At least I hope, 20 point off of the mourngul? Hell they even advertised it in the community post as if 20 points would change anything for it.

Did that rumour about limiting how many CP you can buy during list building amount to anything? Someone was claiming that the new GH made it so you could only take 1 extra CP for 50 points, but I haven't seen or heard anyone talk about it since then.

Or FeC loading up on CP to first turn summon half a dozen 170 point units for 50 CP each...

The three new command abilities are: •1CP: reroll 1s to hit for a unit •1CP: rerolls 1s to wound for a unit •1CP: rerolls save rolls of 1 for a unit So pretty good actually, especially last one with the unrendable nighthaunt save. Not sure about the 1 extra CP limit though, can anyone else confirm that rumour?

What do people think of both knights of shrouds post GH? the range on their abilities will always annoy me, but for 100/120 points I will give them a shot. I have been considering trying the KoS on foot with the gryph feather charm to accompany a unit of harridans. Slightly cheaper version of the spirit torment + bladegheist pairing, but it could be good at targetting low bravery mobs and cutting through them with minimal casualties.