DanielFM Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 9 minutes ago, mikethefish said: If the model can already Unbind, it gives a third dice on Unbinding - unless there was an errata? EDIT - looks as though there WAS an errata. But the answer is still yes - two Unbinds are better than one with a plus 2. Or at least AS good as, with the Navs other benefits pushing it over the top The Runelord can take a Chamon Artifact which does the same, giving him 2 unbinds with +2. That's plain better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethefish Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, DanielFM said: The Runelord can take a Chamon Artifact which does the same, giving him 2 unbinds with +2. That's plain better. Assuming Realm affiliations are allowed in the game you are playing in. Far from a certainty, apparently. Additionally, still +1 Drop, which is teh suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethefish Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 As an addendum to this line of thought, I have been reading up on Endless Spells...they don't really seem super awesome to me, especially when you consider the points cost, and the fact that we can control them sometimes, too. I am not sure we really need to prepare for them, overly much The new Realm spells, I know very little about. They might be abnormally dangerous - I am just not sure yet. Even if they are, our new-and-improved Navigators (or Runelords, depending on preference) should be in a great place to handle things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, mikethefish said: As an addendum to this line of thought, I have been reading up on Endless Spells...they don't really seem super awesome to me, especially when you consider the points cost, and the fact that we can control them sometimes, too. I am not sure we really need to prepare for them, overly much The new Realm spells, I know very little about. They might be abnormally dangerous - I am just not sure yet. Even if they are, our new-and-improved Navigators (or Runelords, depending on preference) should be in a great place to handle things Having seen them used, they're very good. The pendulum is good AND risk free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, mikethefish said: As an addendum to this line of thought, I have been reading up on Endless Spells...they don't really seem super awesome to me, especially when you consider the points cost, and the fact that we can control them sometimes, too. I am not sure we really need to prepare for them, overly much The new Realm spells, I know very little about. They might be abnormally dangerous - I am just not sure yet. Even if they are, our new-and-improved Navigators (or Runelords, depending on preference) should be in a great place to handle things Seems all pretty good to me with the realm spells being pretty big in a range of pretty situational to powerful. Nice mix overall. I just see it as three options for a fleet. Stubborn in going all Kharadron using any relic boosts and advantages in mobility to overcome the new magic meta(as a long time Bret player it's something i'm used to ), bend a little and let some of the landlubber kin of fellow duardin help out as allies or mercs to give extra spell protection or tanky warriors. Finally is just using a Stormcast wizard which is fine by me as they're one of my mains. However, anyone given thought to kitbashing and proxying a Overlord(say the navigator model) with stormcast parts to fit better with the fleet's look despite being the wizard? I'm thinking the fluff being a "Conclave's alchemist supreme" who was once a emissary to Azyrheim's grand conclave and learned the secrets of better magic manipulation by Sigmar's celestial storm winds and came back to the ports with this new magical knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethefish Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 FYI - the Runelord is going up to 100 pts in the new edition. I don't think he's worth it, unless you are bringing additional Dispossessed allies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eciu Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Well it would be cool if "Always take what you are owned" allowed you to take any artifact, even the one not from "your realm" (which could make a balance problems, but it's not that KO are anywhere close to game breaking combos). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlander86 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I think the Battalion costs are not in favor of the current costing of the units. If Warscroll Battalions are going to be the requirement to get Command Points and Artefacts, the only viable one to use is Iron Sky Command where to prepare for all kinds of magic, you would probably bring 2 Aethernavigators and a Khemist. On a side note, The Last Word on the Ironclad with that Supremacy mine is truly a General killer. Overwatch on 8 carbine shots (re-rolling 1s to hit and wound thanks to Masters of the Skies) and then rolling for D6 Mortal wounds from the Supremacy Mine is awesome. Killed the mounted Knight of Shrouds as it tried to tear into my Ironclad. Was glorious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalassic Monstrosity Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 hours ago, eciu said: Well it would be cool if "Always take what you are owned" allowed you to take any artifact, even the one not from "your realm" (which could make a balance problems, but it's not that KO are anywhere close to game breaking combos). Oh, that would be fun. "Where'd you get one of those? I heard you couldn't find them outside Aqshy!" "You know. Debt collection." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 This thread needs some Kharadron Kleenex. We don’t know Allegiance abilities or Warscroll changes yet. We have some very smart people here that will figure things out. Trust Aethermatics, not superstition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 8 hours ago, mikethefish said: FYI - the Runelord is going up to 100 pts in the new edition. I don't think he's worth it, unless you are bringing additional Dispossessed allies Are they really nerfing the Runelord? Jesus Christ GW. 2 hours ago, Dez said: This thread needs some Kharadron Kleenex. We don’t know Allegiance abilities or Warscroll changes yet. We have some very smart people here that will figure things out. Trust Aethermatics, not superstition. Like Beastclaw raiders' very smart people figured things out? Sometimes there isn't anything to figure out. Like, the chances that GW pulls "And suddenly, it turns out we've changed everything and it's all right" has diminished each reveal and leak. KO are simply not going to be able to ever to match up to the top armies in a magic and summoning meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 3 hours ago, stratigo said: Like Beastclaw raiders' very smart people figured things out? Sometimes there isn't anything to figure out. Like, the chances that GW pulls "And suddenly, it turns out we've changed everything and it's all right" has diminished each reveal and leak. KO are simply not going to be able to ever to match up to the top armies in a magic and summoning meta. Everyone know that this edition will start really hard for us, but maybe there are people that are tired to listen/read the same things again and again. Some of us will try to mathammer some other options or new strategies (maybe not for winning a big tournament, but to try to still be competitive). I get that you don't want that, and I believe you already made your own vision of how KO will be in this new edition. Probably you are right, but let the other people try some new things. Btw, you said something really usuful: KO are simply not going to be able to ever to match up to the top armies in a magic and summoning meta. For people that plays the last meta in a competitive environment, my advice is not start a KO. From your posts, you are one of them. So just swap armies, you should be used to do that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I think KO might be his only AoS army. I've seen him on multiple forums and they're the only thing that made him jump into the game. So his anger is understandable. However I'm more than happy to roll with the punches of the ever shifting metas and even on the storyline focus. During the Age of Chaos elite armies reigned as only the best could topple chaos' hold on the realms, in the Age of Hope army sizes increased due the flourishing of civilizations and the power of Order and it's cities conquered and now in this age of uncertainty, superstition and awakening gods we see magic and the arcane take the stage and industrial powers wane. Even the malign portents stories make this a theme by any power of progress (guns, CogForts or even clocks) being undone by magic. Obviously not a salve for the competitive minded player but more than a good enough reason for me and my interest at how they keep things fresh with the narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Baron Klatz said: I think KO might be his only AoS army. I've seen him on multiple forums and they're the only thing that made him jump into the game. So his anger is understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Baron Klatz said: I think KO might be his only AoS army. I've seen him on multiple forums and they're the only thing that made him jump into the game. So his anger is understandable. However I'm more than happy to roll with the punches of the ever shifting metas and even on the storyline focus. During the Age of Chaos elite armies reigned as only the best could topple chaos' hold on the realms, in the Age of Hope army sizes increased due the flourishing of civilizations and the power of Order and it's cities conquered and now in this age of uncertainty, superstition and awakening gods we see magic and the arcane take the stage and industrial powers wane. Even the malign portents stories make this a theme by any power of progress (guns, CogForts or even clocks) being undone by magic. Obviously not a salve for the competitive minded player but more than a good enough reason for me and my interest at how they keep things fresh with the narrative. Yeah, I understand the anger (btw, he is right to be angry). We know that all the new AoS2.0 toys are not for us (without using allys), and some core-mechancis just nerfs our main features. So, in any competitive environment, our army will look like a t2 or t3, but that's fine (if nobody knows a secret OP combo or whatever). That's how the competitives scene is build (in every game, not just warhammer). One trick ponys are going to work harder to do the same or worst (btw, I play KO and Dark Eldar...I'm used to that), other people will swap their armies, and other will try to make soup-lists to break the meta. Now, it's up to you how you want to deal with that. For me, I can't afford to sell or buy a new army every year. I just try to min-max my army and buy new units using the rule of cool, and If new edition comes and move my army from T1 to T3, I will try to deal with that and talk to other KO generals to find anything possible to mitigate the nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Edit: addressing Andreas' quote: He made a comment on another forum that the BCR weren't being used in tournaments because of their 2017 nerf. So I think that's just a case of him being obsessed on what's competitive and constantly checking the tourney scenes. No clue if he's using Fyreslayers but I think he just popped over there due to being an angry duardin fan in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Baron Klatz said: Edit: addressing Andreas' quote: He made a comment on another forum that the BCR weren't being used in tournaments because of their 2017 nerf. So I think that's just a case of him being obsessed on what's competitive and constantly checking the tourney scenes. No clue if he's using Fyreslayers but I think he just popped over there due to being an angry duardin fan in general. Yes sure, I know what he ment. And I only really play competitive so points, tactics, lists, strategies etc... does interest me. But I do think it would be better if we would have another topic solely for expressing anger/frustation since IMO I don't really think it adds anything to the "Let's chat...." threads. But I guess right now everything is so new and people get very emotional but after the summer TGA will go back to normal again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethefish Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 7 hours ago, stratigo said: Are they really nerfing the Runelord? Jesus Christ GW. Well, in a magic-themed edition, the Runelord's stellar ability to Unbind makes a lot of sense in the context of the Dispossessed as a whole. Especially when you consider how the rest of the points are getting tweaked for the Dispossessed army. Quite frankly, the Dispossessed got the points nerfs, and various restructuring that the Kharadrons should have gotten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Indeed, it seems to me it balances out anyway because so many wizards have gone up in points as well. 3 hours ago, Andreas said: Yes sure, I know what he ment. And I only really play competitive so points, tactics, lists, strategies etc... does interest me. But I do think it would be better if we would have another topic solely for expressing anger/frustation since IMO I don't really think it adds anything to the "Let's chat...." threads. But I guess right now everything is so new and people get very emotional but after the summer TGA will go back to normal again. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qaz Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/17/2018 at 10:55 PM, DanielFM said: The Runelord can take a Chamon Artifact which does the same, giving him 2 unbinds with +2. That's plain better. Chamon Artefact lets you unbind as though a WIZARD or gives additional unbind if you're already a WIZARD. I was super-excited then I read from the FLGS then my smiley turned upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 So I'm taking a look at Barak-Nar. All heroes can unbind, all get +1 to unbind. Navigators can unbind 2, give one an Aethersight Loupe and roll 3 dice...add in that once per game they can unbind an additional spell...can hurt. We'll have to see the meta, but suck on that Magic Phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 7 hours ago, Baron Klatz said: Edit: addressing Andreas' quote: He made a comment on another forum that the BCR weren't being used in tournaments because of their 2017 nerf. So I think that's just a case of him being obsessed on what's competitive and constantly checking the tourney scenes. No clue if he's using Fyreslayers but I think he just popped over there due to being an angry duardin fan in general. I have ko and dispossessed ( my fantasy army). I’m sympathetic to fyreslayers because I think They got nerfed harder than we did my meta is competetive. While I usually avoid tournaments, the people I play with are regular tournament goers. I like to be able to put my army on the table and feel like I have a chance. I only decided to take the plunge on AoS last October, so I am intensely upset that the army I invested around eight hundred dollars in to is no longer able to play with most of the people I game with after less than a year of owning it. I am not rich, I don’t like dropping that much money unless I am getting a good return. Less than a year is not a good return for the money spent 40 minutes ago, Qaz said: Chamon Artefact lets you unbind as though a WIZARD or gives additional unbind if you're already a WIZARD. I was super-excited then I read from the FLGS then my smiley turned upside down. There are a lot of rules like this that make me think gw simply wasn’t thinking about dwarves when they wrote the rules. It’ll probably be faqed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dez said: So I'm taking a look at Barak-Nar. All heroes can unbind, all get +1 to unbind. Navigators can unbind 2, give one an Aethersight Loupe and roll 3 dice...add in that once per game they can unbind an additional spell...can hurt. We'll have to see the meta, but suck on that Magic Phase. Again, the loup was faqed. It no longer provides 3 dice, it simply adds a further dispel attempt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 4 unbinds ain't bad! I do like the extra dice...but I guess the +1 helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eciu Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Qaz said: Chamon Artefact lets you unbind as though a WIZARD or gives additional unbind if you're already a WIZARD. I was super-excited then I read from the FLGS then my smiley turned upside down. Extra grief that they had put it into the KO spotlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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