Let's chat Kharadron Overlords

[Dez]

So I've been wondering. If your army is Barak-Zilfin, you can take Endrinriggers in the Iron Sky Squadron Battalion. If you think about it...you could take them anyway, who cares? You can just put them in all the Frigates and drop it all at the same time. Do you think something was omitted (or removed) that allowed the Endrinriggers to benefit from Bold Privateers?

[Tittliewinks22]

9 hours ago, ninjaDance said:

Okay, I get how it's not an optimal choice, particularly for a tournament (which I have no intention of going to)... but does that make it bad?

I feel like Barak-Nar and Barak-Zon both shore up weaknesses in the army (magic defence, combat phase) rather than accentuate aspects it's already good at (movement, shooting). The rerolling of battleshock for Nar is also going to be worthwhile in any game, in absence of the Order battle trait.

Not saying you're wrong, but I don't know that it's going to break the army or anything if the opponent takes no magic, whereas it could provide a valuable tool you're otherwise missing if they do. It feels like Navigators are a little lackluster without the Barak-Nar bonuses and a Loupe.

My LGS doesn't have a huge amount of magic use, but I picked Barak-Nar as my theme.  My reasoning being we're more narrative players, and my other friend started a Zon army, and there's no way I'm letting him have more votes than me

Seriously though, I like the paint scheme and Brokk, but I'm a huge fluff guy, so painting Brokk as anything but Nar woulda killed me inside a little

 

[ProvokedTree]

15 minutes ago, Tittliewinks22 said:

there's no way I'm letting him have more votes than me

If you ever do a team battle, you need to use your votes to overrule him.    

 

For me, I am Barak-Mhornar for life yo. Who needs votes when you can just borrow what you need, when you need it.

[Acid_Nine]

32 minutes ago, ProvokedTree said:

 

 

For me, I am Barak-Mhornar for life yo. Who needs votes when you can just borrow what you need, when you need it.

who needs to borrow when you can ask for a trade! you could send a few harpoons their way to help sweeten the deal if you want!  

[Sactownbri]

So I've been wondering. If your army is Barak-Zilfin, you can take Endrinriggers in the Iron Sky Squadron Battalion. If you think about it...you could take them anyway, who cares? You can just put them in all the Frigates and drop it all at the same time. Do you think something was omitted (or removed) that allowed the Endrinriggers to benefit from Bold Privateers?

You are correct but you missed the run and charge bonus. Re rolling the charge with endrinriggers is not bad. You want those saws in combat the turn you deploy so this helps.


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[Dez]

34 minutes ago, Sactownbri said:

You are correct but you missed the run and charge bonus. Re rolling the charge with endrinriggers is not bad. You want those saws in combat the turn you deploy so this helps.


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But Bold Privateers specifically mentions Arkanaut Company, not Endrinriggers. Which is my point  It would be awesome if it affected Endrinriggers.

[Karchev23]

Im honestly stuck between Barak Zon and Mhonar. Zon for fluff reasons, and mhonar for competitiveness. 

[yarrickson]

9 hours ago, Dez said:

So I've been wondering. If your army is Barak-Zilfin, you can take Endrinriggers in the Iron Sky Squadron Battalion. If you think about it...you could take them anyway, who cares? You can just put them in all the Frigates and drop it all at the same time. Do you think something was omitted (or removed) that allowed the Endrinriggers to benefit from Bold Privateers?

I'm at that point where I wonder if GH2 might tweak formations somehow in some as yet unseen way. Because yeah at the moment the only fringe benefit of adding the riggers to the formation is being able to drop them outside the ship without costing an extra drop. And I don't really see a need for that. 

[Sactownbri]

But Bold Privateers specifically mentions Arkanaut Company, not Endrinriggers. Which is my point [emoji4] It would be awesome if it affected Endrinriggers.

Huh, I wonder if this is rule as written versus rule as intended issue? Seems like a good question for the GW Facebook group.


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[Feerful]

Running ship heavy is definately the dream. And I keep looking at the Iron Sky Squadron with Barak Mhornar. 3 frigates with cannons gets 6 shots the first turn and with rerolls you should be getting at least 4 hits dealing d6 damage. Minus saves of course.

I don't know if the damage output would justify building towards it. More of a boost to their modest damage. But if you are taking at least 2 frigates anyway 80 points might be ok. It gets you a bonus artifact and sky ship tek. 

But then you are passing on the Ironclad and that model might be too cool to not take. 

[Dez]

11 minutes ago, Feerful said:

Running ship heavy is definately the dream. And I keep looking at the Iron Sky Squadron with Barak Mhornar. 3 frigates with cannons gets 6 shots the first turn and with rerolls you should be getting at least 4 hits dealing d6 damage. Minus saves of course.

I don't know if the damage output would justify building towards it. More of a boost to their modest damage. But if you are taking at least 2 frigates anyway 80 points might be ok. It gets you a bonus artifact and sky ship tek. 

But then you are passing on the Ironclad and that model might be too cool to not take. 

 I so want to make a ship heavy list...but I think you've also discovered that the shooting potential just isn't as high as ground troops...but I don't want to make a gunline  The other item to think about is your General needs to be deployed to use his command trait, you can't measure to him if he is embarked.

I keep flim flamming myself between Mhornar and Ziflin. I love the aesthetic/visual concepts I'm coming up with for Mhornar, but I don't want to make a gunline which is where I think they are strongest. I love the tactical (movement phase) essence of Ziflin, but as mentioned the paint scheme doesn't match.

Now that said, check out the blurb from the Battletome on page 4, Redmetal Vengeance. It's a fully red ship from Barak-Zon...so ships can be from different Baraks and be painted differently.

 

[Spinsane]

6 minutes ago, Dez said:

Now that said, check out the blurb from the Battletome on page 4, Redmetal Vengeance. It's a fully red ship from Barak-Zon...so ships can be from different Baraks and be painted differently.

To be fair, Zon's armor color is Red to begin with... Although yes, reading that blurb I get the impression that other ships from that Skyport wouldn't usually be all-red (most likely have ballons and/or other metalic parts unpainted, I guess?)

[ninjaDance]

14 hours ago, Tittliewinks22 said:

My LGS doesn't have a huge amount of magic use, but I picked Barak-Nar as my theme.  My reasoning being we're more narrative players, and my other friend started a Zon army, and there's no way I'm letting him have more votes than me

Seriously though, I like the paint scheme and Brokk, but I'm a huge fluff guy, so painting Brokk as anything but Nar woulda killed me inside a little

 

I wish we had more narrative players here! But yeah, I've come around to Sir Tophat after initially being kind of meh on the model. Funny how it'll grow on you!

I want to run a group of explorers and scholars, and Barak-Nar seems like the way to go! Zon is actually pretty appealing, too, but I feel like it'll play a little too similar to my Fyreslayers, always wanting to charge stuff. Honestly, they're all pretty appealing, but I think Nar (despite being the poster boys) will end up feeling more unique.

I guess worse comes to worst and they're absolutely un-fun to play, I could whip them up as a custom sister skyport. My colour scheme's not quite going to be an exact match, anyhow.

[Acid_Nine]

You know, now that mine broke I really bloody wish that the flight stand was a lot more sturdy. It bloody broke at the first little bit of pressure today, and I have no bloody clue how to fix it when it won't happen again. 

 

maybe some copper pipes or something more sturdy...

[The Traitor]

12 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

You know, now that mine broke I really bloody wish that the flight stand was a lot more sturdy. It bloody broke at the first little bit of pressure today, and I have no bloody clue how to fix it when it won't happen again. 

 

maybe some copper pipes or something more sturdy...

Anyone else is having this problem? Copper rods will most probably be enough, but the transparent stand looked quite cool, it would be a shame to have to replace them...

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Mine just fall off 50 times per game due to the slightest vibration of a dust mite farting.. it got really annoying after my third game on sunday that I just played them with only the bases not the ships on top until I magnetise the stands. The back endrins really heavily make them back heavy .

[Ruben]

So just a quick question: what do you think are the overlords' biggest glaring weakness?

[Volund]

Medium-poor save with no way to improve it in faction. Admiral and Navigator have 3+ but no way to reroll or ignore rends, or get a save after the save. If your opponnent brings 30 Ard' boyz with big choppas, they will pretty much do whatever they want all game, or if they bring 30 quarellers and find something to keep 2 runelords out of LOS, you are again screwed. Heck, if they bring 30 bloodreavers with meat ripper axes, you might need to be worried. Basically I am going to be worried about anything bringing a lot of attacks with rend that are not as dependent on a single hero. 

[Ruben]

3 minutes ago, Volund said:

Medium-poor save with no way to improve it in faction. Admiral and Navigator have 3+ but no way to reroll or ignore rends, or get a save after the save. If your opponnent brings 30 Ard' boyz with big choppas, they will pretty much do whatever they want all game, or if they bring 30 quarellers and find something to keep 2 runelords out of LOS, you are again screwed. Heck, if they bring 30 bloodreavers with meat ripper axes, you might need to be worried. Basically I am going to be worried about anything bringing a lot of attacks with rend that are not as dependent on a single hero. 

I play stormcast, going up against a kharadron 1k list soon, so that was kind of what stood out for me. Not that SCE have a lot of answers to high rend too either though, so I kind of assumed the kharadrons would be in the same boat, with the difference being the overlords having far more shooting capability, so I'll have to watch out for that dreaded double turn.

[Sactownbri]

Medium-poor save with no way to improve it in faction. Admiral and Navigator have 3+ but no way to reroll or ignore rends, or get a save after the save. If your opponnent brings 30 Ard' boyz with big choppas, they will pretty much do whatever they want all game, or if they bring 30 quarellers and find something to keep 2 runelords out of LOS, you are again screwed. Heck, if they bring 30 bloodreavers with meat ripper axes, you might need to be worried. Basically I am going to be worried about anything bringing a lot of attacks with rend that are not as dependent on a single hero. 

Yep, I've been playing 1K against my sons Skaven. Storm Vermin eat anything I have in one round of attacks if I let them reach me.



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[ProvokedTree]

23 hours ago, Dez said:

The other item to think about is your General needs to be deployed to use his command trait, you can't measure to him if he is embarked.

Barak-Mhornars command trait doesn't have to be given to a hero. That requirement is only mentioned on the custom skyport page.   

That means there is nothing actually stopping you from making your Ironclad your general, and letting it have the command trait.

[Acid_Nine]

3 hours ago, Ruben said:

So just a quick question: what do you think are the overlords' biggest glaring weakness?

flimsy flight stands

 

nah, the biggest issue is the low wound count for our infantry linked with the mediocre profiles for shooting. I do wish arkanaught companies were at least a 4+ and the thunderers had two wounds or something to give them a wee bit more protection. 

weakness in melee combat with our battle line is pretty glaring too.

[mmimzie]

12 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

flimsy flight stands

 

nah, the biggest issue is the low wound count for our infantry linked with the mediocre profiles for shooting. I do wish arkanaught companies were at least a 4+ and the thunderers had two wounds or something to give them a wee bit more protection. 

weakness in melee combat with our battle line is pretty glaring too.

Weakness to melee isn't super true. While obviously skywardens and engineriggers love melee, what's mote interesting is melee can be used to your advantage.

 

Played 3v3 with some friends one brought KO and most face ironjaws. He charged after doing some heavy shooting, and this kind of prevented the iron jaws from being able to to focus down any one unit. While the metal cast tiny men deathly took it on the chin alittle the melee combat was really good in preventing the iron jaws from getting any ground while they got shot to death. 

[Volund]

2 hours ago, Ruben said:

I play stormcast, going up against a kharadron 1k list soon, so that was kind of what stood out for me. Not that SCE have a lot of answers to high rend too either though, so I kind of assumed the kharadrons would be in the same boat, with the difference being the overlords having far more shooting capability, so I'll have to watch out for that dreaded double turn.

Yeah, although if you try to build around it, I think stormcast have the Lantern that improves saves,  nothing has a 5+, and dracoth riders at least have the natural 3+. Liberators, prosecutors and dracoths all can have the shields to let them re-roll 1s. So it is not like Sylvaneth or Nighthaunt anti-rend, but at least a little bit that could be geared toward mitigating rend. KO have 25% of thier units with a 5+ and no built-in rerolls of any saves.

[Thomas Lyons]

1 hour ago, ProvokedTree said:

Barak-Mhornars command trait doesn't have to be given to a hero. That requirement is only mentioned on the custom skyport page.   

That means there is nothing actually stopping you from making your Ironclad your general, and letting it have the command trait.

That won't fly in any event, especially since it references this trait as an alternative to page 98.  Those descriptive rules on page 98 are for how to choose a trait when you have an army of this allegiance.  

That said, it isn't going to matter, because the design trajectory suggests you'll be required to pick a Hero as your general for Matched play in the next GHB.