swarmofseals Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 3 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said: @swarmofseals GW did what they had to do with the End Times. It's sad they had to close the book on the dedicated fans, but things must move forward. Its time for the sad Dwarves to close their book of grudges and give AoS a chance. I wholeheartedly agree with this. I also have a lot of empathy for the folks who are still upset about their setting being blown up. Ultimately, I think that GW could have handled it better but you are absolutely right that the move was necessary. WHFB was simple not a viable model for a mainline game anymore. Ultimately, stepping back and really looking at what GW was trying to accomplish with AoS is absolutely what sold me on giving it a try. While I do actually prefer a greater degree of complexity personally, I think having a vibrant and growing community is far more important to my enjoyment of the game than having a ruleset that is ideal for me as a player. Every time I have tried to play Warhammer I've struggled to find people to actually play the game with. When I was a teenager I probably spent 3-4 years in the hobby without ever getting a real game in before finding a store an hour and a half a way that had 40k events. When I played in 7th edition, I'd drive to the FLGS maybe 40 minutes away and hang out but I'd only actually find an opponent maybe a third of the time. The fact of the matter is that actually playing a game even if the rules aren't perfect for you is far preferable to not playing a game that is otherwise more up your alley! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossMHoward Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 12 hours ago, swarmofseals said: When I played in 7th edition, I'd drive to the FLGS maybe 40 minutes away and hang out but I'd only actually find an opponent maybe a third of the time. Did the club advocate for pick up games? At my local players arrange games ahead of time on a Facebook group to avoid disappointment. But in either case, there's a tendency for longstanding club members to form a bit of a clique and to organise games amongst one another beforehand. I think this is something new players should be aware of, and that it's important to reach out to a group and schedule in a game beforehand. It gives your opponent a chance to get to know you and gauge your experience beforehand, so that they can tailor the game you'll play to be more entertaining and informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 5 hours ago, RossMHoward said: Did the club advocate for pick up games? At my local players arrange games ahead of time on a Facebook group to avoid disappointment. But in either case, there's a tendency for longstanding club members to form a bit of a clique and to organise games amongst one another beforehand. I think this is something new players should be aware of, and that it's important to reach out to a group and schedule in a game beforehand. It gives your opponent a chance to get to know you and gauge your experience beforehand, so that they can tailor the game you'll play to be more entertaining and informative. The only info I was able to ever get was that sometimes WHFB players would show up there. If there was a local group scheduling games ahead of time I certainly wasn't aware of it! Luckily for me, I do know such a group exists in my area for AoS now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Back in 7th Ed days it wasn't as easy to arrange things online. There were local forums, if you were lucky, but FB wasn't ubiquitous yet (we didn't really start utilizing FB locally for gaming purposes until well into AoS). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 I've always been shocked at the fact that GW has never set up a basic site for their stores with a scheduling feature to find others who are interested and set up games. The community is always divided. When I first started, there was a local forum, a general Facebook group and Facebook pages for each of the stores in my area. I had to post in 5 different places to look for a game. Eventually I started my own group for people to talk about AoS and look for games in a centralized place for AoS only. The main issue is, two friends will just go to GW and play a game without posting anywhere or talking about what they are doing. When the AoS box set came out there were probably a hundred independent groups of friends in my area just buying the box and playing it. All these people who are interested in AoS and playing in the stores are virtually invisible if you are trying to organize a community. It takes a dedicated person to keep going to the stores, find people playing, get them organized in one place. This has to be a rare individual who is passionate about the hobby, outgoing and has a lot of time on their hands to round people up. This could be done so much easier with a little organization from GW, but there is little to no help on their end. As a result, the size of each local community is directly proportionate to individuals willing and able to spend their time and effort to promote community growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordova Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 On 23/01/2017 at 6:07 PM, WoollyMammoth said: I heard a guy say that fantasy is on the decline, that its a dying game. I asked him where he heard that, he said, all the forums online, everyone is saying how AoS sucks and nobody plays it. I'm probably stating the obvious, but I think it's fair to say GW upset some people with the transition from WHFB to AOS, as not only is AOS is a rather different game to WHFB, but the setting is also somewhat different. If you've spent years investing (in terms of time and financially) in a game/setting, only to have it "torn up", grumpiness is likely to ensue*. There are certain communities which are vehemently anti-AOS, which can magnify a perception (or "validate" a suspicion). * I've had WHFB stuff since 4th Ed (mostly Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings, but some Orcs and Goblins too). I really liked the setting, so I wasn't impressed that GW decided to get rid of it. Similarly, whilst AOS looks like a solid game (I've not played it enough for me to have a valid opinion), there are certain elements of WHFB that I miss or prefer. I can definitely see why people would bear AOS ill-will, although having said that, I'm happy to give GW a chance, and see are going to go with AOS. On 23/01/2017 at 6:07 PM, WoollyMammoth said: Fantasy is not dying, it is growing rapidly for the first time since I have been playing, maybe the biggest growth ever and it's very exciting to see. I heard that sales/revenue from AOS are on 40K levels ... this may or may not be true, but a fair few of the AOS releases have sold out pretty quick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Cordova said: I'm probably stating the obvious, but I think it's fair to say GW upset some people with the transition from WHFB to AOS, as not only is AOS is a rather different game to WHFB, but the setting is also somewhat different. If you've spent years investing (in terms of time and financially) in a game/setting, only to have it "torn up", grumpiness is likely to ensue*. There are certain communities which are vehemently anti-AOS, which can magnify a perception (or "validate" a suspicion). * I've had WHFB stuff since 4th Ed (mostly Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings, but some Orcs and Goblins too). I really liked the setting, so I wasn't impressed that GW decided to get rid of it. Similarly, whilst AOS looks like a solid game (I've not played it enough for me to have a valid opinion), there are certain elements of WHFB that I miss or prefer. I can definitely see why people would bear AOS ill-will, although having said that, I'm happy to give GW a chance, and see are going to go with AOS. I heard that sales/revenue from AOS are on 40K levels ... this may or may not be true, but a fair few of the AOS releases have sold out pretty quick... I don't think it's on 40k levels but it's doing well I think according to the recent report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillagoreFaceslasha Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I am a very staunch defender of AoS but I don't think we are on 40k's level. One day, though, ONE DAY. That day we will take out the corpse-emperor and place upon the golden throne a God that can do his job properly. And is not a bag of dicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 @Cordova Its perception, point of view. GW did not burn all the old novels and ban people from playing 8th edition in the stores. The old world is exactly where we left it, but it's just a bit older now. Like all old editions we simply put a lid on it as-is and moved the story forward. AoS is a different game, just like 8th was different than 7th, and 7th was different from 6th. In each edition change there were angry haters. KoW for example was made by someone involved in 7th that left with 8th to create a game more in tune with what they liked from 7th. Sure they made some more broad sweeping changes, and they needed to because the hate was getting too strong and the hobby was very rapidly dying out altogether. From a business perspective they could have just as easily simply discontinued all fantasy. In the end you have the same exact thing you always had; a tabletop war game where you paint a beautiful fantasy army and smash it against another. Sure facing is gone along with regiments in movement trays, etc. Models are getting bigger and more detailed (and more expensive). But these changes for the most part are nothing to rage-quit over. The idea that everything you loved has blown up is just a concept that you don't have to accept. For example, you can build pretty much any army from 8th edition if you like, lets say Wood Elves. You can still read some old world novels on the black library, like the the Orion novels. You can still read all kinds of lore on the internet. You can still build a beautiful horde of glade guard protected by Wild Riders and SotT, with a Forest dragon. Now you can even bolster it with amazing new 'forest spirit' Sylvaneth models. You can then proclaim that you are the defender of Athel Loren and that the opposing army has threatened your borders, and play out a narrative battle in the old world using the AoS rules. It may even be possible that eventually wood elves get new models in the AoS, even if they are called something other than 'wood elves' officially. The haters are just being stubborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lardidar Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I'm very new to AoS, not played in fact. I'm getting into the fluff listening to garagehammer and still have 10 episodes to go to be up to date. I played tons of 5th and worked for GW when 6th hit...my word there was ill will then when the canned all army books for the ravening hordes but that turned into a great game with time, I played a bit of 7th...getting back into the world this last week has been great fun, they have refreshed and modernised the system and think it will be a fantastic move down the line. Speaking to a friend who is 8th mad and let's say to be polite 'unhappy' at AoS. He asked why I'm choosing to play the stupid kids game with no fluff...I told him a bit of the fluff I knew and said there is loads more...he said they got rid of all the old fluff and I tried to explain that it's all still there and it all still happened but instead of recent history it is ancient history. As to it being a kids game, I can't comment but I have seen some battles online and it seems to have as much depth as WFB ever did, end of the day it's a dice-based therefore luck based game...still looks cool. I'm not sure I convinced him but hey, I'll build and have fun and people always flock to fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillagoreFaceslasha Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 My recommendation is that you check Shinro's "General Age of Sigmar Lore thread" (or something like that, I think I mixed the word order). He does a very detailed breakthrough of the book's lore, though I do have one nitpick and it's that he doesn't do campaign books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 32 minutes ago, KillagoreFaceslasha said: My recommendation is that you check Shinro's "General Age of Sigmar Lore thread" (or something like that, I think I mixed the word order). He does a very detailed breakthrough of the book's lore, though I do have one nitpick and it's that he doesn't do campaign books. :< They are expensive and they are too big. >_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillagoreFaceslasha Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, shinros said: :< They are expensive and they are too big. >_< Not saying that you should, though. It's within the realm of possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Nope I won't do that ever. Plus overall I feel it's too big to do in a sense considering how many stories are in there since I own all-gates at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Of course many of the naysayers don't seem to realise that the alternative to the creation of AoS wasn't an updated WFB rule set. It was WFB being canned and GW focusing on just 40K and 30K and may be a few boxed games. AoS did not kill WFB it's lack of financial success did. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDuff Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 The way I look at it is that Horus Heresy is historical war gaming in a long dead fictional past. Warhammer Fantasy is now much the same thing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 1 hour ago, MacDuff said: The way I look at it is that Horus Heresy is historical war gaming in a long dead fictional past. Warhammer Fantasy is now much the same thing now. I look at it the same way they make small references all the time. Plus certain revelations lend to the old setting and the warhammer world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlack Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Fantasy WAS dying, but GW made AoS to revive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratan Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 52 minutes ago, DarkBlack said: Fantasy WAS dying, but GW made AoS to revive it. That's correct but it requires going past emotional aspect of that shift and looking at the facts to accept which as far as I can understand is the most difficult part for most of AoS sceptics and haters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 3 hours ago, Zeratan said: That's correct but it requires going past emotional aspect of that shift and looking at the facts to accept which as far as I can understand is the most difficult part for most of AoS sceptics and haters. Yup I personally feel it's more of the emotional aspect more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillagoreFaceslasha Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Sorry, this didn't go here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thostos Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Hardly... Perhaps rank and file fantasy is though.I know that in my area 9th age has a smallish bunch who play and KoW has an even smaller group.Now to be honest AoS isnt skyrocketing either with our group being rather spread out over the area but we are picking up new players every month or two and events are being held every month or so.Overall I would say the AoS following in the region is the largest of the 3 games:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMack26 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I am a very new to the hobby (Got my first Stormcast at Christmas). While I have always been nerdy and when I was very young liked the look of Warhammer I never felt I could work my way into the hobby. I think that is why Age of Sigmar has been so successful. I can just see some models i think look cool and pick them up without being told that buying this army doesn't work, or i need to get another £200 worth of something before I can even think about starting a small game. Its so much easier to buy some models, read some of the fluff and get invested in the world. It just seems easier. In fact I have managed to corrupt a few friends and family members to give collecting a go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 Yeah they split everything into 4 groups. Then they released stuff for 3 of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterannoob Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Bwahaha! Ahem, no, its certainly not dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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