Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Killax]

On 13-4-2018 at 1:59 PM, Pompe said:

 

Thanks man! I guess we will have to remind them over 6 months again.

As I continue to be afraid that absolutely nothing will happen with BoK. Except when non-Khorne players need to have something fixed about them...

[Pompe]

Sent the mail yesturday evening and got an auto-reply this morning, lets see what happens!

[Xasz]

Is the whole daemon keyword and mount consistent for DoT, MoN and StD?

Either way, this would make khorne armies a lot more interesting to build and play. The separation between mortals and daemons would feel a lot less strict and it could push khorne on par with the other chaos armies again (especially in terms of the fun factor).

Man, I really want this and I don't wanna be disappointed now.

[Pompe]

1 minute ago, Xasz said:

Is the whole daemon keyword and mount consistent for DoT, MoN and StD?

Must admint that Im not 100 % sure, but i believe so. It goes for the discs in DoT at least.

[Xasz]

If they would finally correct this, I would be a lot less hesitant to buy a bloodthirster.

Concerning Valkia and Skarr. Former is a daemon princess or at least a daemonic being, even in the new fluff. (the term daemon queen is dropped). So she should have the keyword as well.

The latter is more ambiguous and it is not specified if he is a daemon or not. He is immortal but that does not necessarily mean that he is a daemon as well. Khul seems to have some kind of immortality (seemingly doesn't age, although this is somewhat ambiguous as well) but as far as we know he is still "mortal". 

[Killax]

1 hour ago, Xasz said:

Is the whole daemon keyword and mount consistent for DoT, MoN and StD?

Either way, this would make khorne armies a lot more interesting to build and play. The separation between mortals and daemons would feel a lot less strict and it could push khorne on par with the other chaos armies again (especially in terms of the fun factor).

Man, I really want this and I don't wanna be disappointed now.

Yes, its completely consistent elsewhere to the point where beastmen on discs of tzeentch obtain the keyword when they are on discs. Even marauders on fiends of slaanesh have it.

As I tried to get this through 2 months ago too, mail the faq team. Thanks in advance!

[Killax]

7 minutes ago, Xasz said:

If they would finally correct this, I would be a lot less hesitant to buy a bloodthirster.

Concerning Valkia and Skarr. Former is a daemon princess or at least a daemonic being, even in the new fluff. (the term daemon queen is dropped). So she should have the keyword as well.

The latter is more ambiguous and it is not specified if he is a daemon or not. He is immortal but that does not necessarily mean that he is a daemon as well. Khul seems to have some kind of immortality (seemingly doesn't age, although this is somewhat ambiguous as well) but as far as we know he is still "mortal". 

Valkia had Daemon Princess moments, it wasnt consistent throughout 7th till now... But yes would make slightly more sence. Same with Skarr actually since End Times has him as a Daemon Lord. But Khul should have it do to his Fleshhound... If we want to be consistent about it...

[TheOtherJosh]

2 hours ago, Xasz said:

Is the whole daemon keyword and mount consistent for DoT, MoN and StD?

DoT only has riders on Disc

StD doesn’t have any directly...

Slaanesh specifically calls out that it is a Daemonic Mount with the keyword

Nurgle lord of afflictions, and similarly the pusgoyle Blightlords and Harbinger of decay both are called out as Daemonic mounts and get the DAEMON keyword.

The maggoth however isn’t listed as Daemonic and that rider doesn’t get the Daemonic keyword. 

So, pretty much all the chaos lords except Khorne have a Daemonic Mount option.

[kenshin620]

The only weird fringe case I can think of is Orghotts Daemonspew who is "half daemon".

[Xasz]

I checked the scrolls as well and it seems that only khorne got the short end of the stick...  

[Killax]

14 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

DoT only has riders on Disc

StD doesn’t have any directly...

Slaanesh specifically calls out that it is a Daemonic Mount with the keyword

Nurgle lord of afflictions, and similarly the pusgoyle Blightlords and Harbinger of decay both are called out as Daemonic mounts and get the DAEMON keyword.

The maggoth however isn’t listed as Daemonic and that rider doesn’t get the Daemonic keyword. 

So, pretty much all the chaos lords except Khorne have a Daemonic Mount option.

StD does have one directly, other than the Daemon Prince. The Chaos Lord on Daemonic mount, with Khorne mark is capable to thake stuff the Khorne Lord on Juggernaut cannot. Such as the Crimson Crown etc.

For those who want to know more... I guess I had the whole list somewhere 30 to 40 pages ago. But the moral is, feel free to check it out, but YES every character on a Daemonic steed has the Daemonic Keyword EXCEPT those that are presented in Khorne/Blades of Khorne. As to why this is the case, to date, I have no idea. Because yes, it's only the case for Khorne models.

In Desciples of Tzeentch many characters have the option to go onto a Disc of Tzeentch and logically obtain the Daemon Keyword if they do. This isn't only true for heroes either as the (rarely used) Tzaangor Enlightened have this option for example. In general Maggotkin of Nurgle has quite clear and correct Keywords. Unlike Karanak for example the Poxbringer did instantly get the missing WIZARD keyword and Karanak is still not a HERO. Then even Slaanesh is correct with it's Keywords...

[MachinaMandala]

Anyone got any advice on starting out? I've got the Shadespire Garrek's (a whopping 60 points!) and the Storm of Sigmar Khorne half but I'm interested in growing.

[Killax]

3 hours ago, MachinaMandala said:

Anyone got any advice on starting out? I've got the Shadespire Garrek's (a whopping 60 points!) and the Storm of Sigmar Khorne half but I'm interested in growing.

Great start, pick up the Start Collecting and mix things up! Also look into the neat Blades of Khorne book. 

[TheOtherJosh]

5 hours ago, Killax said:

StD does have one directly, other than the Daemon Prince. The Chaos Lord on Daemonic mount, with Khorne mark

Yeah, and apparently that particular Warscroll is displayed in “Daemons of Chaos” in the AoS app ... instead of Slaves to Darkness  or Warriors of Chaos ... go figure! (Probably a mistake in the app to be honest.)

That particular Warscroll was from the Warriors of Chaos Compendium Warscroll reference:

Chaos Lord on Barded Steed . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount
Chaos Lord on Steed of Slaanesh . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Slaanesh Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount Chaos Lord on Palanquin of Nurgle. . . . . . . . . . . . . .Nurgle Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount

Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Disc of Tzeentch . . . . . . . . .Tzeentch Chaos Lord on Disc of Tzeentch Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Steed of Slaanesh . . . . . . . .Slaanesh Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Palanquin of Nurgle. . . . . .Nurgle Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount 

Nurgle Lord on Daemonic Mount . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Harbinger of Decay

Previously (in the Warscroll Compendium from 2015 (not 2013...)) there was a “Khorne Lord on Juggernaut” that had the Daemon keyword.

Mildly annoying IMO. 

[Killax]

36 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Mildly annoying IMO. 

I'm just amazed that while Blades of Khorne has been out for months and we see the Bloodsecrator change, Blood Tithe change, Bloodstoker and Murderhost getting clarified and all that but we can't get a logical Keyword update where with others it's fixed within an instant. E.g. Poxwalker with spell not having the Wizard Keyword, but now he has.

[Roark]

It's very frustrating, especially because I know that a few people wrote to GW well before the bi-annual FAQ deadline... No one received a response beyond the standard script.

[Killax]

51 minutes ago, Roark said:

It's very frustrating, especially because I know that a few people wrote to GW well before the bi-annual FAQ deadline... No one received a response beyond the standard script.

Same here, which leads to me current conclusion still being that they simply don't care. Because with this re-occurance accounted I think we're savely heading towards a dozen mails who adressed this. Same with Karanak too, though at that point the Facebook page didn't gave out the mail adress. I believe they then mailed them themselves.

What is so odd is that rule inquiries, especially by non-Khorne players, for new books do get all the attention. To some extend logical, to another extend we're really asking for a simple Keyword here that shouldn't even require further explanation...

We could even look into the history of the Juggernaut riders. Really since 1988 (30 years ago!) the Juggernauts where confirmed Daemons and wether or not there was a Daemonic or Mortal rider for them, Bloodletter or Chaos Knight, they remained Daemon too. This applied well throughout the years since Age of Sigmar really... Which in itself shouldn't be an issue except that Age of Sigmar's narrative, both in Bloodbound and Blades of Khorne confirms them to be Daemonic mounts in all instances. So the question then becomes, are they not even reading their own lore? 

I suppose I have less issues with the Mighty Lord of Khorne and his Fleshhound, but the oddity still very much remains there too. That Fleshhound is a confirmed Daemon. When two types of models present themselves on one base, why is it that Khorne exclusively loses Keywords? 

Lastly it isn't even only in our advantage to obtain this Keyword. Several anti-Daemon pieces excist that would make our Skullcrushers and Heroes worse in quite some match ups. However I personally prefer logical approaches before any game term advantage. The only logical approach comes from lore and lore confirms both Juggernaut and Fleshhound are Daemon. It's litterly impossible by the letter of the different army books to view it any other way.

[JetBlackSVW]

Hi,

I have agreed with a friend to play max 1250 point games (we have only space for a 48"x48" table right now) and therefore I need some advice for a 1250 Khorne list that can handle his Stormcast Eternals (with Raptors and other ranged abilities).

At the moment I have these units:

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
- General
Bloodsecrator (120)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Bloodstoker (80)
Valkia The Bloody (140)

Battleline
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist

Units
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Bloodglaives
1 x Khorgoraths (80)

Total: 1240 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

What should I buy next? I kinda like the Skullreapers and the Chaos Warshrine (looks really awesome) and maybe more Bloodreavers, Blood Warriors or Khorgoraths would be a solid choice.

The demon route with 30 Bloodletters and WoKBT is too expensive for 1250 points matches, right? What about the Gore Pilgrims Battalion?

Another question, my friend really likes to kill my Bloodsecrator with his Neave Blacktalon, he sets her up in the Celestial Realm and waits for the right moment to deploy her near my Bloodsecrator and then goes ham with her double damage to heroes. What is best way to deal with this, apart from hoping he low rolls? I could wrap a unit of Bloodreavers around my Bloodsecrator but then I have a unit less on the frontline.

Also a question concerning the blood tithe points, I have to use the points at the beginning of any hero phase, so when I use the ablities that let me move, charge or attack in my hero phase, do I have to miss out on the Bloodsecrator and Bloodstoker buffs? Because technically these buffs last until my next hero phase but I can't recast them again before I can use my points?

[NemoVonUtopia]

19 minutes ago, JetBlackSVW said:

Hi,

I have agreed with a friend to play max 1250 point games (we have only space for a 48"x48" table right now) and therefore I need some advice for a 1250 Khorne list that can handle his Stormcast Eternals (with Raptors and other ranged abilities).

At the moment I have these units:

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
- General
Bloodsecrator (120)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Bloodstoker (80)
Valkia The Bloody (140)

Battleline
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist

Units
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (140)
- Bloodglaives
1 x Khorgoraths (80)

Total: 1240 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

What should I buy next? I kinda like the Skullreapers and the Chaos Warshrine (looks really awesome) and maybe more Bloodreavers, Blood Warriors or Khorgoraths would be a solid choice.

The demon route with 30 Bloodletters and WoKBT is too expensive for 1250 points matches, right? What about the Gore Pilgrims Battalion?

Another question, my friend really likes to kill my Bloodsecrator with his Neave Blacktalon, he sets her up in the Celestial Realm and waits for the right moment to deploy her near my Bloodsecrator and then goes ham with her double damage to heroes. What is best way to deal with this, apart from hoping he low rolls? I could wrap a unit of Bloodreavers around my Bloodsecrator but then I have a unit less on the frontline.

Also a question concerning the blood tithe points, I have to use the points at the beginning of any hero phase, so when I use the ablities that let me move, charge or attack in my hero phase, do I have to miss out on the Bloodsecrator and Bloodstoker buffs? Because technically these buffs last until my next hero phase but I can't recast them again before I can use my points?

More bloodreavers and blood warriors are always good, you will want more if you play with more points and you can get some variety. In my opinion you cant go wrong with getting wrathmongers and they are a dual kit with Skullreapers so I found legs and back plates on a bits site and made both from the same box. 

A 10 man unit of Bloodreavers or two would be good to protect your bloodsecrator and limit stormcast lightning strikes and outflanking. They aren't in the front lines but controlling your opponents movement and protecting your bloodsecrator is worth it. They will be able to fight after all his units are deployed.

[Agent of Chaos]

Gore Pilgrms is awesome but I wouldnt consider any battalions until you reach 2000 points, maybe 1500 if you really think its worth it.

Chaos knights can be a great addition as they give you speed and mortal wound protection (helps against the Raptors).

You are correct with blood tithe; it gets used before anything else so any model attacking as a result of bloodtithe won't be effected by the bloodsecrator or other buffs that are activated in the hero phase. A completely unnecessary nerf by GW in my opinion as bloodtithe is far from overpowered compared to other allegiance abilities.

Regarding your mate's Neave Blacktalon strategy, remember that he doesn't get to choose when she drops, the dice determine that. Hope he has been playing it correctly and not just putting her down when it suits him. Bubble wrapping with 10 bloodreavers or 5 Blood Warriors is the way to go, or set up the bloodsecrator in the middle of all your forces so she is zoned out. 

[TheAdequateWargamer]

On 08/04/2018 at 5:52 PM, Kharnige said:

I recently finished my 2000pts list of the following but suffered a crushing defeat and would welcome feedback. The list felt pretty good but is this a bad match up or was this down to my poor decision-making/deployment. Either way, I need to figure this out for next time.

WoK Bloodthirster with Mark of Slayer and Devastating Blow
(General)

Murderhost:
30 Bloodletters, Gore-drenched Icon
30 Bloodletters, Gore-drenched Icon
5 Flesh Hounds
Skulltaker with Armour of Scorn

Gore Pilgrims:
1 Bloodsecrator with Brazen Rune
2 Slaughterpriests with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (Killing Frenzy)
30 Bloodreavers with Reaver Blades
5 Blood Warriors

I was against:

2 Huskards on Thundertusks, 1 with Everwinter's Master and Pelt of Charngar
2 Thundertusk Beastriders
3 Yhetees
Allies: 1 Butcher with Cauldron, 6 Ogors

Deployment was, roughly:

* Yhetees                                                               * 4 Thundertusks and Butcher                                                   * 6 Ogors
* 5 BW                                  WoK BT, 30 BL * ST, 5 FH, 30 BL                                        SP            BS       SP     *30 BR

Scorched Earth scenario, decent amount of scenery but no rules that impacted the game.

I got first turn, and Murderhost'd for 8. Got the first lot of 30 Bloodletters with WoK's command into combat, which took down half of his General's wounds. Bloodthirster, 30 BL and Flesh Hounds all failed charges. He healed his General back up to full health (good rolls for heal + Butcher) then came the dirty snowballs. Took out my Bloodthirster quickly and weakened my 30 BL in combat. By the time we rolled for Turn 2, I had lost my Bloodthirster and pretty much all of my first 30 BL and a few BW. The other 30 BL with 5 FH went for the nearest Thundertusk and took him out to then head for the Butcher. Slaughterpriest moved up toward Butcher slowly before being snowballed.

By the end of his Turn 2, I had only taken out a Huskard on Thundertusk despite having lost over half my army. Turn 3 and some bad dirty snowball rolls led to me hanging on and contesting the objective again but the battle was lost.

This was my first run with Murderhost and Gore Pilgrims. I think it would work well against previous armies I have faced (Stormcast, Arkhan Death) but this just seemed like an uphill battle.

Any advice would be much appreciated. I have played a handful of games with Khorne and had been building up to this list.

Never played this list, but its the one that I have feared for a long time. They are more mobile, have great range, ability to heal if not fully removed and do a sickening amount of damage with that shooting thing.

Reckon you just have to play for the scenario, his weakness is in not having a high model count. Anything bar Duality of Death you probably need to play for objective points. If you cant remove a thundertusk in one, dont bother, take out his units.

 

 

 

[TheAdequateWargamer]

Q. What is the cheapest / best / most points efficient wizard(s) Khorne have access to?

Specifically for mystic shield.. but other useful spells also welcome.

Went to heat 2, took council of blood. Played things with rend -2. Played nagash twice, he might have taken off 4 bloodthirsters in total, but it was definitely one per turn.

4+ save vs rend 2 is a 6 up save.. So in this case mystic shield is halving the damage. Say going from taking 15+ damage down to only 7/8. Which could mean going from being taken off with out attacking back in combat to maybe getting in 2/4 rounds of combat (factoring in priority and the council of blood hero phase combat).

Pretty sure we could take:

Everchosen gaunt summoner on disc 120pts

Chaos sorcerer lord 160pts

Bray shaman 90pts

Are there any others? Has anyone used a wizard as an ally before? Thoughts?

 

[TheAdequateWargamer]

On 19/04/2018 at 9:35 AM, Killax said:

Same here, which leads to me current conclusion still being that they simply don't care. Because with this re-occurance accounted I think we're savely heading towards a dozen mails who adressed this. Same with Karanak too, though at that point the Facebook page didn't gave out the mail adress. I believe they then mailed them themselves.

What is so odd is that rule inquiries, especially by non-Khorne players, for new books do get all the attention. To some extend logical, to another extend we're really asking for a simple Keyword here that shouldn't even require further explanation...

We could even look into the history of the Juggernaut riders. Really since 1988 (30 years ago!) the Juggernauts where confirmed Daemons and wether or not there was a Daemonic or Mortal rider for them, Bloodletter or Chaos Knight, they remained Daemon too. This applied well throughout the years since Age of Sigmar really... Which in itself shouldn't be an issue except that Age of Sigmar's narrative, both in Bloodbound and Blades of Khorne confirms them to be Daemonic mounts in all instances. So the question then becomes, are they not even reading their own lore? 

I suppose I have less issues with the Mighty Lord of Khorne and his Fleshhound, but the oddity still very much remains there too. That Fleshhound is a confirmed Daemon. When two types of models present themselves on one base, why is it that Khorne exclusively loses Keywords? 

Lastly it isn't even only in our advantage to obtain this Keyword. Several anti-Daemon pieces excist that would make our Skullcrushers and Heroes worse in quite some match ups. However I personally prefer logical approaches before any game term advantage. The only logical approach comes from lore and lore confirms both Juggernaut and Fleshhound are Daemon. It's litterly impossible by the letter of the different army books to view it any other way.

I cant see them adding daemon into skullcrushers without them being repointed though. You could do some nasty stuff with them and the bloodthirsters command abilities.

 

[Xasz]

30 minutes ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

I cant see them adding daemon into skullcrushers without them being repointed though. You could do some nasty stuff with them and the bloodthirsters command abilities.

Which would upgrade Khorne from being a tier 3 to a tier 2 army at best.

[Killax]

45 minutes ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

I cant see them adding daemon into skullcrushers without them being repointed though. You could do some nasty stuff with them and the bloodthirsters command abilities.

I don't really think this is any balancing issue, because while they can be nasty-ish the costs of the units are parralel with Bloodletters who are much nastier by point comparison, effectiveness, models being able to reach actual combat and technically even speed if you factor in Murderhost...

Thing is, I don't really believe the points to actually be some ultimate balancing system anyway. It works because they are spreaded similarly. Skullcrushers while nice are by no stretch insane if you add a piece like a Bloodthirster to it. Plus to me the fact that the Balewind Vortex still excists with all it's interactions for this points could easily lead to Skullcrushers being good. Because while this is a narrative aspect, we also do not have:
- Actual tactical ways to summon Daemons
- Actual relevant ranged attacks
- Actual pieces that work well in conjunction with things like a Balewind Vortex

In addition:
- Blood Tithe points as a effect significantly became worse as it was, even if you houseruled it to toggle between at the start of Hero phase and/or end of the Hero phase
- Bloodsecrator became significantly worse. While we could subjectively discuss if it always should have worked this way, it objectively didn't under GH2016
- Newer Battletome's/Allegiances quite clearly gain priority over at the FAQ team, as Keyword issues are solved within a month otherwise. E.g. Poxwalker obtaining the Wizard Keyword

TLDR; no Skullcrusher don't even need to be repointed if they get the Daemon Keyword. By large because the awnsers to them are allready there.