Celestial Prime being under-esimated?

[Aeonotakist]

I think most people bought Prime and tried will say this guy not worth 360 ponits. With that amount you can almost get a Mourngul or necrophilis that is 3 times tougher than this flying soldier.

But now with more and more dynamic tactics developed in Stormcast, I think we need to take another look in Celestial Prime.

 

One thing is that, it fits perfectly with Skyborn Slayer. Usually when you include a Skyborn in your list, you have about 800 points for something more and you will either look for something that can stand in the beginning and be effective with other Judicators, or you will need something that can strike down together with other Paladin Bros. People tend to put more prosecutors, Judicators or a Hammerstrike Force to reinforce either this or that. But think about Prime, it can eventually fit in either position.

 

If the Prime strike down in the first turn to use its shooting with called-dice ability, it becomes a quite effective war machine. Because you can always call for a dice of 6 to determine the AOE size. Most of the game, a Prime can cover 4~5 units in shooting phase with 12' diameter ceover board and do 8~10 MW. That is as effective as one warmachine units.  Friendly fire should not be a problem if you have palyed D&D and cast fireballs frequently enough...

 

If the Prime strike down together with other members in the Skyborn Slayer team. It is even greater because you can do that in round 2 or even round 3 so he gets 4~6 attacks. Remember Prime have 85%+ chance to charge 9' with its called dice ability (you can change the lower one of two charging dice to 6), you can really hit hard especially with some relic in hand. A Prime can normally do 12~15 damage after save to a 3+ save HQ or monster. Its -3 rend makes its attack almost MW.

Another good thing is its -2 Bravery ability is so strong together with Decimator's ability of -2 Bravery. It could be fatal to Destruction and Chaos army.  

 

In my opinion, nowadays if a list wants to be strong, it has to cover various situation. Like Skyborn, if palyed against Skryre, I want reasonable forces on the table/  strike for the first time/ strike for the second time.  If played against Chaos with Sayl and Archaon, I would like my table to be clean in the round 1 and maximized alpha strike power. If played against FEC, I want my table to have reasonable ranged fire from beginning and beheading with deep strike when battlelines meet. Celestial Prime is a model that can give a lot different possibilities in the same list. Its ability to decide a dice each turn can be extremely useful if you choose wisely. Also I think this is the most interesting ability ever designed in AOS.

[Dracothjay]

For what he's worth and for what he can do i use him almost every game! I think he's worth every point. He always takes targets out that i wan him too. Even if he dies, he ends up dying after he's completed his tasks. Yes, it is a bummer he's only at 8 wounds, but look at what he does!!!!!!

I'm very pro-Celestant Prime. Massive love for the guy!

[Beardyface]

I have used the Prime in every tournament I've been to this year with great success. My own breakdown of why he's great is in the link above. It's his huge utility that does it for me ?.

[Ravenwing]

I have used him a number of times, but have some problems with keeping him alive. Getting him into cover helps a lot and is pretty easy with his enourmous base.

I also have problems finding out when to bring him in. First round? Second round? Third round? In general I believe second round works best, but if brought on in round 3, he can pretty much kill anything in one round.

[kozokus]

I would gladly hear the same things about the Stardrake, I have found that mine did the best jobs by NOT fighting and instead sniping heroes and warmachines all day long.

[chord]

I am working building/painting one now. Would very curious to hear more tactics with the Prime.   I run a loremaster with my army so I was thinking of that when the Prime touches down.

[Requizen]

I'm actually thinking of getting a Prime to be my "centerpiece" SE model.

I think the Prime is underestimated, and works well with Skyborne Slayers/Warrior Brotherhood. The one thing I find possibly problematic about him is that many of the Matched Play missions (which is what many events are using atm) are progressive in nature, and the longer you keep him (and his buddy Battalion) off the board, the harder it is to keep up in points. I sometimes feel forced to bring in my Skyborne on turn 1 just to prevent them from getting a point lead, if they're a hyper mobile army that can get to all objectives relatively quickly. Especially on a mission like Border War - if they can get onto "my" objective and start racking up those 4 points per turn, keeping off a power unit until even the bottom of 2 can be devastating.

Also, Escalation really screws with Retribution from On High, since you don't actually "set him up" until Turn 2 at the earliest, so he doesn't gain the bonus to his hammer until then. 

That said, I think he's very good for the same reason that Skyborne/Brotherhood are. Alternate deployment is massive in AoS, especially if you can race well for deployment, guarantee going second, and then show nearly nothing on the board for your opponent to interact with on Turn 1. Also being able to threaten any backline heroes or rush for objectives in the opponent's DZ is a massive bonus that many armies can't deal with. His Scepter is a good (but not great) tool for sniping wounds onto important models, and he can go toe-to-toe with lots of stuff. Not as well as the Stardrake, mind, but if he gets to swing first with a powered up Hammer, he can wipe a lot of stuff with ease.

His role seems to be more about playing a bully - poking important things from a range with the Scepter while personally chasing down things that can't gib him in Combat. W8 3+ is nice but nothing special, a squad of Ironjawz Brutes could probably punk him in a turn or two. Which is why the combo with Skyborne/Brotherhood is so important.

Sorry for a bit of rambling, but I've been mulling his purchase over in my mind for a while and he seems to be overall reasonable option if you're playing either of those Battalions (and let's be real, if you're playing SE competitively you probably are).

[Nico]

Quote

I am working building/painting one now. Would very curious to hear more tactics with the Prime.   I run a loremaster with my army so I was thinking of that when the Prime touches down.

Except that Primetime comes down in the movement phase, so after the hero phase.

All Loremasters have been conscripted into the Sylvaneth Gnarlroot forces.

[chord]

32 minutes ago, Nico said:

Except that Primetime comes down in the movement phase, so after the hero phase.

All Loremasters have been conscripted into the Sylvaneth Gnarlroot forces.

True but there is always the following turn

[Bjarni St.]

5 hours ago, Requizen said:

The one thing I find possibly problematic about him is that many of the Matched Play missions (which is what many events are using atm) are progressive in nature, and the longer you keep him (and his buddy Battalion) off the board, the harder it is to keep up in points.

Also, Escalation really screws with Retribution from On High, since you don't actually "set him up" until Turn 2 at the earliest, so he doesn't gain the bonus to his hammer until then.

These are my misgivings about him as well. There's no doubting his efficacy playing late game troubleshooter but leaving so many points in the ether until turn 3+ feels really bad under GHB scenarios.

[Lissë-Prime]

Glad to see many Pro-Prime players here. (and of course I am)

I always takes Prime down in round 3 or later and charge right away when other lines already crashed with enemy.

He almost be total devastating for my opponent. Sometime to the point that some almost want to ban him

[Aeonotakist]

On ‎09‎-‎11‎-‎2016 at 9:22 PM, Bjarni St. said:

These are my misgivings about him as well. There's no doubting his efficacy playing late game troubleshooter but leaving so many points in the ether until turn 3+ feels really bad under GHB scenarios.

Actually it is not that bad. Considering the battle style of both sides, it might be the first and second round just trash time.

 

If I run a Skyborne, definitely the battle starts when I launch everything down, not in the beginning.

[Requizen]

Just picked mine up, hoping to have him built and ready for some upcoming games. 

On a related but different note - he's a big model, how do you guys transport him? I have Battlefoam and a pistol case for my forces (Protector/Knight-Venator in particular are annoying to transport), but I don't think he'll fit in either of those.

[Paul Chapman]

Transportation is what has put me off getting one so far. As a pedestrian I'd also like suggestions on how to lug him around safety!

[Nico]

Bubble wrap it.

[rokapoke]

Magnetize the wings. You'll thank me later. 

[chord]

I was thinking of magnetizing the three parts so I can disassemble him for transport.  Has anyone tried that?