AoS Cities of Sigmar Battletome 2023 Discussion

[Satyrical Sophist]

7 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Seems like they should be able to get off Tenebrael Shards much of the time with a sacrifice (so they'll need at least 20 Dreadspears for that).

...

Looking at the Cities tactics, hard to do too many with the Aelves.  Could do the 3 charging units one, possibly Suppressed Fire one with the Hydras, unlikely to do the Blackpowder one with any army unless it's just all shooty.

That's one I'm still wondering about that. I know it feels bad to sacrifice Black Guard to the sorceress but its only 40 or 50 points more to upgrade that Dreadspear unit to Black Guard, 

 

Suppressing fire is a human order I'm afraid. Aelf only lists can only really score 2 of the 6 book tactics. I don't think the GHB ones are too bad to score for Aelves though.

Intimidate the Invaders is pretty auto, Reprisal and Endless Expropration are pretty situational but theoretically doable, Magical Dom can be pretty auto complete as well, Magical Mayhem is not a particularly good choice but possible if you wanted to try and force a blizzard through. Bait and trap is a pretty good choice for aelves honestly. Lead into the Maelstrom seems scorable with some builds, either a Sorcerer General with Black Guard battleline (sure you have to charge with sorc but she will still have the 4++ ward) or the scourge build, it's not a favourite tactic though.  Surround and Destroy seems pretty achievable as well. 

So Aelves only lists don't end up too bad I think.

Both book ones seem very good if you are running Drakespawn. I'd also put Intimidate, Magical Dom, Bait the Trap and Search and Destroy in that category as well, so that is 6. The rest are more situational but its weirdly ok seeming for Aelves on battle tactics.

This might be too rosy a view though, I can tend to be an optimist.

[JackStreicher]

Alright, had another 1K game VS Stormcasts yesterday (Path to Glory)

My List

Marshal & Envoy 90

Sorceress 100

20x Black Ark Corsairs 180

20 Fusiliers 300

10 Dreadspears 90

5 Cavaliers 180

 

Stormcast

Lord Imperetant

Knight Incantor

2x Annihalators with grand hammers

2x 5 Vindictors 

Custom Stormhost with retreat & charge and +1 to hit on the charge

 

It was a good game! I intentionally did bot take a Warforger since I wanted him to have fun as well.

My MVPs: Corsairs. I rolled like a mad Sorceress usually dealing 8-12 wounds without all out attack (before saves). They annihalated 3 annihalators  (tanking their blows like it was nothing), since the Corsairs benefited from tenebral blades at the time they dealt exactly 12 damage wiping the unit.

They finally received their name „Harrowing Squall Privateers“ lead by Lotulan Keelfish - Yiiiarhh Land lubbers!

Corsairs were reduced to 5 but I rallied them back up to 10. lost another 5 later on.

Fusiliers: Stubborn little buggers! I started with 17, at one point they were reduced to 2 but I rallied them back up to 9! They mostly supported and posed a threat with return fire and suppressive fire.

Cavaliers were great again. They killed themselves due to exploding Stormcasts 🤣

 

Eventually both had our armies quite decimated by the end of turn two. I was winning on points though. He tried to finish a quest before retreating which he succeeded at in turn 5. having only the Knight Incantor and Imperatant alive.

Edited August 26, 2023 by JackStreicher

[The Lost Sigmarite]

I still want to do the "post-army box CoS buying guide" I talked about a few weeks back. But I would like to hear your voice on this matter. What are you planning to buy after your army set ? What do you think is the most cost effective way to tech up from 600 points (what the set provides) to 1k ?

Personally, I will go for a Cavalier Marshall and 20 Fusiliers.

[Lord Krungharr]

6 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Alright, had another 1K game VS Stormcasts yesterday (Path to Glory)

My List

Marshal & Envoy 90

Sorceress 100

20x Black Ark Corsairs 180

20 Fusiliers 300

10 Dreadspears 90

5 Cavaliers 180

 

 

My MVPs: Corsairs. I rolled like a mad Sorceress usually dealing 8-12 wounds without all out attack (before saves). They annihalated 3 annihalators  (tanking their blows like it was nothing), since the Corsairs benefited from tenebral blades at the time they dealt exactly 12 damage wiping the unit.

 

Great to hear the Corsairs did something!  I wasn't sure they had the staying power to get anything accomplished.  Really debating whether or not I want to actually build mine, or just buy some built, or forget about them.  Pretty cheap bodies though, not Clanrat cheap of course.

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

I still want to do the "post-army box CoS buying guide" I talked about a few weeks back. But I would like to hear your voice on this matter. What are you planning to buy after your army set ? What do you think is the most cost effective way to tech up from 600 points (what the set provides) to 1k ?

Personally, I will go for a Cavalier Marshall and 20 Fusiliers.

I‘d get (at least) 5 more Cavaliers, and if I didn’t own 20 corsairs then I‘d get them (cheap bodies!), a Corsair Fleetmaster (just if you want to try the spiced up Corsair version) - keep in mind that Aelfes might be gone from CoS in a few years.

Also a Cavalier Marshal, one Sorceress (+10 Dreadspears), 20 Fusiliers (30 if you go competitive)

Maybe msu dreadspears (2x-3x 10) for screening and/or sacrificing for +2 to cast.

Rob from honest wargamer made a Tier list I mostly agree with :). Although I feel like Executioners are currently a trap. Since the army really dies very fast! (You‘ll need that Palanquin Priestess to stay around imo). Rallying with Thalia Vedra could be crucial as well. So far there‘re lots of variables and many tests to conduct left! ^^

 

I might test Drakespawn chariots and Knights soonish, I‘d expect them to be solid.

Edited August 26, 2023 by JackStreicher

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

I still want to do the "post-army box CoS buying guide" I talked about a few weeks back. But I would like to hear your voice on this matter. What are you planning to buy after your army set ? What do you think is the most cost effective way to tech up from 600 points (what the set provides) to 1k ?

Personally, I will go for a Cavalier Marshall and 20 Fusiliers.

Those would by my next steps as well. The Fusiliers because the design of the army strongly relies on them (suppression fire, battle tactics) and the Cavalier Marshall for the nice, self sufficient power pair with the Cavaliers.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Those would by my next steps as well. The Fusiliers because the design of the army strongly relies on them (suppression fire, battle tactics) and the Cavalier Marshall for the nice, self sufficient power pair with the Cavaliers.

I was also thinking Zenestra + Hunters but imo Fusiliers + Cavalier Marshall is better because 1/Zenestra will 100% go up in points short term and 2/10 Fusiliers are better than 10 Hunters. 

[Austin]

I just get so confused at the decisions GW makes. They correctly identify that this picture is awesome, and yet....no unit like this for new Cities of Sigmar.

[JackStreicher]

Oh and a cannon for the style.

Reminds me: The Designers were talking about the cannon functioning as a door for Cavaliers. Is there such a rule I might have missed?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

39 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Oh and a cannon for the style.

Reminds me: The Designers were talking about the cannon functioning as a door for Cavaliers. Is there such a rule I might have missed?

Not really. In the castellite formation warscroll battalion, they call the cannon the "gate", but that's it.

[The Lost Sigmarite]

44 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Oh and a cannon for the style.

That's why you bring the cannon. It may not be the best stats wise but it certainly wins flavour and style points.

[Myrdin]

57 minutes ago, Austin said:

I just get so confused at the decisions GW makes. They correctly identify that this picture is awesome, and yet....no unit like this for new Cities of Sigmar.

Well once they remove the DE and Dwarves the HUMAN, part of the army will be lacking a lot of options.

Removal of Greatswords at least makes sense due to the old sculpts that simply didnt look good anymore (compared to outriders and pistolers who were still pretty well fitting. Demigryfs... well... their scale size was smaller than many other, especially new models in that unit type so while I hate it, I can justify why they got removed).

Then again, after checking out the Lumineht book... and finding out they are horribly designed "cough cough" army with only 5 units and everything else being heroes, I wouldnt put it past GW to simply not add more units for COS down the line.

Though some level of hopium in me remains that we`ll see new Demis, Greatswords and Pistolers kits making a return.

[Lord Krungharr]

16 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

Well once they remove the DE and Dwarves the HUMAN, part of the army will be lacking a lot of options.

Removal of Greatswords at least makes sense due to the old sculpts that simply didnt look good anymore (compared to outriders and pistolers who were still pretty well fitting. Demigryfs... well... their scale size was smaller than many other, especially new models in that unit type so while I hate it, I can justify why they got removed).

Then again, after checking out the Lumineht book... and finding out they are horribly designed "cough cough" army with only 5 units and everything else being heroes, I wouldnt put it past GW to simply not add more units for COS down the line.

Though some level of hopium in me remains that we`ll see new Demis, Greatswords and Pistolers kits making a return.

Definitely one reason I'm a little nervous I overbought with the D'Aelves...besides having too much stuff already.  But the Black Guard and Excecutioners are pretty awesome looking, and really kinda almost proxyable as Lumineth spear and sword guys....they could be the opposite: the Lumbraneth.  Until Malerion finally gets his act together and makes a battletome.  Then they might find a home there?!

But should be at least a couple years longer we'll be able to use these oldies.  So maybe I need 80 Corsairs?

[Myrdin]

43 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Definitely one reason I'm a little nervous I overbought with the D'Aelves...besides having too much stuff already.  But the Black Guard and Excecutioners are pretty awesome looking, and really kinda almost proxyable as Lumineth spear and sword guys....they could be the opposite: the Lumbraneth.  Until Malerion finally gets his act together and makes a battletome.  Then they might find a home there?!

But should be at least a couple years longer we'll be able to use these oldies.  So maybe I need 80 Corsairs?

Worst case scenario you will be well equipped for when / if the Old World drops in.

Thats kinda my second hope for using what I have. After taking stock I can fill out around 85%-90% of the old High Elf roster (funny coz I started building this thematic proxi army as Empire originally ), so as long as they dont scrap that idea and as long as the game doesnt return back to square bases, we should be fine.

I took another read through the new CoS tome and I just... cant see it in any way other than a massive nerf to already mid tier level army. Wont be able to utilize all I have, but at least some of the stuff is still viable. But once Dwarves (just copters and bombers) and DElves (a lot of stuff... ouch) will go bye bye in a couple of years it will suck. Hopefully by then we get proper replacement human units added, so that the HUMAN CoS can still work as a nice fun army that can do a bit of everything, be it cavalry, infantry, elite infantry, monsters, or ranged supremacy and spellcasting lists. If not ? Well... yeah, gotta keep those fingers crossed for Old World I guess.

[Gorthor21]

I’m sure they will have a way to have CoS duardin and Aelves as the multiracial factor has been a big part of what makes Cities of Sigmar who they are.  I’m sure it will be either mixed race units or small units from Warcry but who know maybe that’s where they will base their new waves on down the road like how lumineth do with the temples

[Lord Krungharr]

Ah The Old World, just don't know if I will be able to muster the will to do another game.  The base-shapes will for sure make or break it.  Wonder if Kings of War has Dark Elves? 

I am on the fence about my Cthulhu Cult city.  It would be more functional and practical to make it a pure DE cult.  But a more authentic such cult would have a high priest surrounded by a throng of dispensable maniacs: Pontifex w 20-30 Flagellants.  But I want them to be sort of aquatic, so maybe I could use the 20 Corsairs I have unbuilt to make the Flagellants, but with Chaos Marauder/Forsaken style torsos/arms.  Sea-helmets are fine I think.  Plus the Pontifex and entourage would help out my Stanks also.

Of course a Cthulhu will be expensive (megagargant kit plus Mutalith kit, and spare chimera wings) and not synergistic or helpful at all with the City itself, just like an Old One should be.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Lord Krungharr

[Gorthor21]

I would model them to be able to proxy as the new units.  Like how folks used to make armies with the various kits and covert proxies for a whole lot of the good units.  Warhammer Community has featured quite a few.  The army you are describing sounds like a Theocratic Misthavn and having read the short story about the scourge privateer going and getting revenge against her father I am all in.  Don’t let speculation stop your creativity and if it comes to it the Ulgu Aelves might be these units ported right over.

 

I at one time plotted a whole swifthawk agents army but they went and got rid of all their kits and broke that dream but then I jumped into the chaos stuff wholeheartedly.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Gorthor21

[Myrdin]

34 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Ah The Old World, just don't know if I will be able to muster the will to do another game.  The base-shapes will for sure make or break it.  Wonder if Kings of War has Dark Elves? 

I am on the fence about my Cthulhu Cult city.  It would be more functional and practical to make it a pure DE cult.  But a more authentic such cult would have a high priest surrounded by a throng of dispensable maniacs: Pontifex w 20-30 Flagellants.  But I want them to be sort of aquatic, so maybe I could use the 20 Corsairs I have unbuilt to make the Flagellants, but with Chaos Marauder/Forsaken style torsos/arms.  Sea-helmets are fine I think.  Plus the Pontifex and entourage would help out my Stanks also.

Of course a Cthulhu will be expensive (megagargant kit plus Mutalith kit, and spare chimera wings) and not synergistic or helpful at all with the City itself, just like an Old One should be.

You might find some use in this then. And if it would prove to be to costly (since its always cheaper to print for yourself then have someone print for you), you can just get those Davy Johnes heads, and slap them on any torso you desire. Little bit of greenstuff, some bitz and the correct color scheme and your Ctulhians will be ready to "summon the Kraken!" to quote the octobeard capt`n

Spoiler

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Myrdin

[Lord Krungharr]

Wow, those are awesome!  I'll be looking out for a good deal on a megagargant then; after looking at the Mutalith kit, those tentacles might not work so well afterall for the 'face'.  Claws should be reasonably easy to do though.  The base will require either puresculpting or CAD/printing.  Kinda thinking that for bases I wanna do all of them with runic stoney slabs with spaces for watery epoxy puddles, and maybe add some seaweed or something here and there.

In the meantime though I'll run my Steamers again with something like this next time:

Cities of Sigmar, Steam Tanks v3
Lethis

270      Steam Tank Commander (general: Divine Champion, Heal Prayer, 
    Mastro Vivetti's Magnificent Macroscope) *
 90      Alchemite Warforger (spell: Transmutation of Lead)*
250      Battlemage on Luminark (spell: Pha's Protection )**
180    Freeguild Cavalier-Marshal (Curse Prayer, Sigmarite Warhammer) **
110    Lord-Ordinator (allies) **

230      Steam Tank*
230      Steam Tank*
230      Steam Tank*

180    Freeguild Cavaliers x5 *

220    Tree Revenants x10 (allies) *

1990      Total

Battle Regiment *
Command Entourage **
Triumph: Inspired
 

A bit more of a variety of threats in this version, extra wizardry, Orders, and prayers, and Tree Revs can get places.  Guess with Misthavn (and overpressuring boilers), almost the whole army could be across the table in turn 2.....hmmm, nice to have Priest action though.

[JackStreicher]

And another one!
Special about this PtG Game:
We used open war cards (AoS 1) - Short table edge to short table edge deployment. Objective 1 VP for every objective. Each player places 2.
Special Rule: At the end of turn 2 each player draws a sudden death card (to keep the game at the ~1.5h mark). At the end of each Battle round on a 4+ a Rouse is drawn.

 

We never drew any Rouses.
1K Game
My gf played my Seraphon (mixed in with her models):
Coatl's Claw
1x Saurus Oldblood (Astrazur, Warden of the Sunspire Gate) (+1 Save, +1 Rend and +1 dmg vs Heros)
1x Starpriest (Suqtoik'atla) with heavenly frenzy (coalesced have no skink artefacts, what?)
20x Saurus Warriors
1x Aggradon Lancers
1x Kroxigors

My List:
Misthavn - One Drop Battlaion
1x Marshal with Envoy (Thenray von Galdstrik)
1x Sorceress (Ynradi Duskshimmer)
18x Black Ark Corsairs (Harrowing Squall Privateers, lead by Lotulan Keelfish)
18x Fusiliers (Zhufanec's Gunners, lead by Vera Zhufanec)
1x Drakespawn Knights (I used converted Sisters of the Thorn for these)
1x Drakespawn Chariot
 

I went first and I went greedy!

I tried to test the Chariot + Knights MW combo. However my opponent rolled a 6 for the aggradon redeploy and I was stranded.
My shooting didn't do much killing one Aggradon.
She engaged my Corsairs on the Temple and my Drakespawn knights a fierce fight enrupted. She rolled hot with her bites dealing the maxumum of bite MWs each time (ouch!) Killing the Drakespawns (in my Case it's more like Stag-Spawns). The Corsairs stood firm, ignoring armour they killed two Saurus, 1 1/2 Korxigors. The Kroxigors killed 5 Corsairs in return and the Saurus slaughered around 8.
She came closer to the chariot with her aggradons, I redeployed it 6" inches. She failed her charge twice.

Next Battleround: I received priority forgot to retreat with my corsairs (RIP). Charged with my chariot dealing 2 MWs. Shot at the Kroxies and left one alive at 1 wound. I lost all corsairs (Lotulan Keelfish survived all attacks just to be snacked by 3 bite attacks XD) The chariot fell to the Aggradons. She dealt 1 wound to my sorceress and an additional 2 with bites.
She moved the last kroxi towards my objective and conquered it.

We drew our sudden death cards (so the opponent wouldn't know the condition). I drew "survive with at least 1 Model at the end of battle round 5 to win. She drew "you win if there are no enemies wholly within your territory at the end of turn 3".

 

Turn three: Me again. I withdrew my Sorceress moved back with my Fusiliers. Marshal Thenray just shot off the last Kroxigor. I unleashed a volley with rerolling to hit and +1 to hit and wound into the Aggradons and almost didn't kill the last one (I only dealt 6 damage).
One of our cats knocked over the Oldblood, killing him (house rule: If a cat knocks over a miniature it's dead)
She charged to sorceress again which rolles a brilliant 1 for redeploy. She killed off the sorceress, revealed her sudden death and won a major victory.

 

Thoughs:
Drakespawn knights are potent! I misplayed them (kind of on purpose since I wanted to forcefully test the combo). they cost 140 points and are better in every way compared to 140 points Ironbreakers (which would need another hero tax to get their shieldwall).
The Chariot is okay. The 90 points are justified since it falls apart incredibly quickly.
Fusiliers: They just don't perform good enough to be worth 300 points imo (+90 points for the Marshal). One really has to bring a Warforger AND has to succeed at casting that spell to make them worth. I might test the next game without them or with a warforger.
Corsairs were solid as usual as was the Sorceress (who failed all but one cast in turn 1 XD the same goes for the skinkpriest)
 

Overall good game and we didn't lose our heroes in the post battle sequence (3 Corsairs died though, ouch)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by JackStreicher

[JackStreicher]

I‘d like to use my Darkshards - Is there any combination that males them playable? (Could not find one)

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

54 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I‘d like to use my Darkshards - Is there any combination that males them playable? (Could not find one)

As sacrifice fuel for the sorceress, but they do no ranged damage instead of no melee damage.

For what it's worth, there is a battle tactic to destroy three units at range, so it's a slight upside to have ranged screens instead of melee screens.

[Myrdin]

Does anyone know if the Stormcast heavy cav base sizes fit the Demigryf base size ?

I was thinking of a way to allow me to bring them to the table still once the new book comes out, and SCE allies is still a thing soo that might work.

Now I dont remember them perfectly, but I recall they had at least 2 types of heavy monster cavalry. Some type of demi dragons, panthers and I am not sure on this one but some type of demigryf thing of their own. Units of 3 models. Are those units decent to be worth taking as allies (but more importantly would they fit as a way to bring my Demis)

Advice on this would be greatly appreciated ^__^

[Satyrical Sophist]

Demigryffs are 75 by 45.

All the Stormcast options are 90 by 52 apart from palladors, which are 75 by 42.

 

[Myrdin]

43 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

Demigryffs are 75 by 45.

All the Stormcast options are 90 by 52 apart from palladors, which are 75 by 42.

 

Checked them out including their warscroll and I think they would fit perfectly!

Even their ability to "fly away" and redeploy fits nicely for my dragon Demis. Thanks for the advice!