feadair Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Marcvs said: as much as I like this option, this would only "fix" them in the spam sense and in stormcast. They seem to be doing pretty well in Cities (as all SCE warscrolls bar those who rely on scions / thunderbolt volley) and can't be battleline there Yep, if Cities with Stormdrakes turn out to be a real problem, something else will be needed. At the moment, Cities have an insane win rate of 64%, but they are not particularly prevalent, with less than 5 % share of the meta. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 On 2/14/2022 at 7:53 AM, Dogmantra said: Anvils does nothing vs shooting or spells. Just a shame because it's a kinda neat idea, and it's almost at least decent. I grin a bit with Anvils because I called exactly what they’d do with it. They’d make it much less useful and more flavorful* but niche because the narrative shifting from Death to Beasts focus. *(I do enjoy how the Deathly aura is useless against Daemons & Death because they obviously can’t be frightened by the afterlife.) At least it does go in-hand with running Sacrosanct Anvils to counter that with shutting down Chaos & Death resurrections and how Anvils are usually ghost hunters anyway. Though they do get the top places in the aesthetics awards. But now is the time of Astral hunters and monsters! On 2/13/2022 at 9:23 PM, PJetski said: Tauralon is objectively the best MONSTER in our book and I will die on this hill Preach! 🙌 They have such cool lore. ”They chase passing meteorites and shooting stars for sport, headbutting them between one another. Though if they find a more interesting target, such as Mustori and astral projections of Lord-Arcanums, they will knock the meteorites toward them. Lord-Arcanums that survive this game with their spirit intact and join in by sending the meteors right back again can win the respect of these beasts, this is often the method used by Lord-Arcanums to convince Tauralons to become their mounts.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share Posted February 16, 2022 9 hours ago, NauticalSoup said: Yeah as we've seen removing conditional battleline would do nothing to fix the living cities with 4 dragons and 4 fulminators list. SCE internal balance is just junk atm. There are a lot of " useless" units and enhancements (Vanquishers, Vigilors, Sequitors, all of the Command Traits, etc.) but overall it's not that bad. We have multiple viable shooting and melee hammers, many viable screening units, and a number of useful support heroes. Most of our subfactions are really good or at least useful. I would prefer if everything was viable, but I recognize that is probably an impossible standard with almost 80 warscrolls 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 11 hours ago, PJetski said: There are a lot of " useless" units and enhancements (Vanquishers, Vigilors, Sequitors, all of the Command Traits, etc.) but overall it's not that bad. We have multiple viable shooting and melee hammers, many viable screening units, and a number of useful support heroes. Most of our subfactions are really good or at least useful. I would prefer if everything was viable, but I recognize that is probably an impossible standard with almost 80 warscrolls I actually think the heroes have the worst of it. SCE is more hero-dense than any other faction by a sizable margin and the number of heroes that actually do anything is painfully small. Stuff like the knight-heraldor which is offensively expensive for a unit that is as close to doing nothing as you can possibly be without actually doing nothing. I don't think we're even in the proximity of a unit being viable when GW can't even be bothered to give a unit a single useful ability, and actually went out of their way to remove one they had in the past. Maybe it's because I come from 40k where a game has more stuff going on but my bar for units isn't about whether or not its viable for competitive, it's whether or not the unit can offer something distinct enough to justify its existence. And a massive chunk of the SCE book, like more than half of it, doesn't seem to even meet that minimal criteria. We're better off than we were with the 2.0 book but the we're still basically a handful of targeted nerfs away from obscurity especially if GW can't restrain the power creep as the edition cycle progresses (Spoiler: they won't). 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 7:55 AM, feadair said: Since the drop of the Nurgle book in December (roughly when Stormdrakes started seeing play), we have a very good but not a stellar win rate of 56% and a very high prevalence (16%, which is more than double that of the next most popular faction). Unfortunately the combination of win rate and popularity calls for balancing if it persists. The most recent stats from https://woehammer.com/2022/02/17/updated-aos-stats-for-january/ today say that we now stand at 58% win rate (while Cities is at eye-watering 69%). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 27 minutes ago, feadair said: The most recent stats from https://woehammer.com/2022/02/17/updated-aos-stats-for-january/ today say that we now stand at 58% win rate (while Cities is at eye-watering 69%). Big number. There are probably enough players there to be meaningful but with CoS it's always hard to tell what exactly is causing it. Are these diverse but effective lists or are we just seeing another breed of SDG/Fulminators but with different battle traits. The stats don't really tell us enough to say, but I would expect it to be on the back of overtuned SCE units since CoS was struggling last edition and hasn't really gained much except through access to the 3.0 SCE tome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said: Are these diverse but effective lists or are we just seeing another breed of SDG/Fulminators but with different battle traits. The stats don't really tell us enough to say, but I would expect it to be on the back of overtuned SCE units since CoS was struggling last edition and hasn't really gained much except through access to the 3.0 SCE tome. Yeah that's an interesting qustion. The Honest Wargamer stats have 6 5-0 lists for Cities. Of these only 2 have an heavy SCE presence (SDG and/or fulminators), one has a knight azyros but that doesn't really count. AoS Shorts has one more which does include SDG. So it's not just SCE units, which makes it all the more interesting. Has the meta shifted in a way that benefits CoS? Have more players "cracked the code"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readercolin Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Taking a quick look at the Cities lists that have 5-0'd: List 1 is Gavin's LVO winning list, which is a living cities list with a sorcerss, Doralia, a freeguild general, 30 crossbowmen, 10 crossbowmen, 10 dreadspears, 4 fulminators, and 4 stormdrake guard. List 2 is Anthony Lawrence at Armour Con, which is running an Anvilguard list with a Sorceress on Dragon, 2 sorceress's on foot, a frostheart phoenix, a runelord, 30 darkshards, 2x 10 dreadspears, 20 phoenix guard, 10 shadow warriors + spellportal. Note that every wizard in the army is running Vitriolic spray, so clearly this list is pushing heavy on killing save rolls and then destroying the now unarmored targets with darkshards, while keeping phoenix guard around as a melee hammer. List 3 and 4 are both Jeremy Lefebvre with his Phoenicium list at Flying Monkey Con and LVO respectively. This was the double frostheart + triple assassin list that also brought a hurricanum, 3x 10 phoenix guard, 2x 10 shadow warriors, and 1 scourgerunner chariot. List 5 is Joe Vucic at the Iron Realms GT running a tempest eye list with a runelord, a hurricanum, a knigh-azyros, a frostheart, 10 freeguild guard, 20 hammerers, 20 irondrakes, 20 phoenix guard, a gyrobomber and an emerald lifeswarm. List 6 is Mark Wildman at Blackout V running a living city list with a frostheart, Doralia, Sorceress, 2x 10 dreadspears, 20 phoenix guard, 5 dark riders, 10 flagellants, a squad of 4 fulminators, a squad of 2 fulminators, and the emerald lifeswarm. So what we can see here is that Jeremy is doing a lot of heavy lifting to try to drag the Phoenicium's name out of the dumpster, the Living City is leaning pretty hard on Fulminators, and then the only other constant is that the frostheart phoenix and at least 20 phoenix guard is a pretty good place to start if you are going for a winning Cities list. Taking a look at the meta representation of other armies, since the Maggotkin of Nurgle tome, Cities top opponents (in order) have been stormcast, soulblight, nurgle, ironjaws, seraphon, daughters of khaine, and bonereapers, with every other faction having 5 or fewer matches played. They have a 50% winrate vs stormcast, a 57% winrate vs soulblight, a 43% winrate vs nurgle, a 69% winrate vs ironjaws, a 64% winrate vs seraphon, an 11% winrate vs daughters, and a 50% winrate vs bonereapers. I think the biggest thing for the cities here is that the overall meta has shifted more towards stormcast/soulblight/ironjaws and less sons, daughters, seraphon and lumineth, which means that the meta is shifting more towards armies that Cities plays well against. A common note for all of the new "top" armies is that they tend to be more high-armor factions, and cities does better against high armor than they do against sheer wounds. I would put the increasing winrate down to the meta shifting more than players "cracking the code" or "leaning on stormcast", though I did find a lot of 3-2 living cities lists that are probably running more stormcast units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 What's up with Joe Vucic's list having a knight-azyros? What does it actually do now that the lantern can't benefit non SCE? Is he using the old warscroll or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readercolin Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 hours ago, NauticalSoup said: What's up with Joe Vucic's list having a knight-azyros? What does it actually do now that the lantern can't benefit non SCE? Is he using the old warscroll or something? No idea, but looking the event up it was september last year, so it should have been the new book. It was honestly probably just running around as a fast moving hero that can self-buff itself with +1 to hit, and could fairly easily be swapped out for something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted February 20, 2022 Author Share Posted February 20, 2022 New Stormkeep video going live today (10am EST) about how to counter Ironjawz! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffreyvt Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) Since we don't have a dedicated paint thread, I want to share you my latest dragon! Pretty proud of this one. Krondys, son of dracothian, inspired by a bronze dragon (Dnd) and Viserion (game of thrones). I pinned the head so I can easily switch to Karazai as well. Now to find a list with him that can do something.. A good base seems Krondys and 10 judicators, but that is already 1000 pts. Edited February 20, 2022 by Geoffreyvt Forgot 1 photo 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) Bloodshed in the Shires, 78 players, SCE goes 5-0 and comes second. The list: Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals – Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar – Grand Strategy: Beast Master – Triumphs: Inspired Leaders Knight-Draconis (300)* – General – Command Trait: Master of Magic – Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact) – Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts – Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon Battleline 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)* – Drakerider’s Warblade 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)* – Drakerider’s Warblade 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)* – Drakerider’s Warblade Units 1 x Stormdrake Guard – Single (170)* 6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)* – Reinforced x 1 Core Battalions *Battle Regiment Additional Enhancements Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley Total: 1970 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 1 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 86 Drops: 1 Edited February 21, 2022 by feadair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Bloodshed, one SCE 4-1 list: Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar - Grand Strategy: Draconith Defiance - Triumphs: Bloodthirsty Leaders Knight-Draconis (300)* - General - Command Trait: Skilled Leader - Artefact: Luckstone - Mount Trait: Thunderous Presence Karazai, The Scarred (600)* Battleline 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)* - Drakerider's Lance 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)* - Drakerider's Warblade 2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)* - Drakerider's Warblade Core Battalions *Brotherhood Command Additional Enhancements Holy Command: Final Thunderstrike Total: 1920 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 0 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 83 Drops: 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Not surprising, we'll add it to the pile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thugmullet Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 On 2/18/2022 at 5:12 AM, Marcvs said: Yeah that's an interesting qustion. The Honest Wargamer stats have 6 5-0 lists for Cities. Of these only 2 have an heavy SCE presence (SDG and/or fulminators), one has a knight azyros but that doesn't really count. AoS Shorts has one more which does include SDG. So it's not just SCE units, which makes it all the more interesting. Has the meta shifted in a way that benefits CoS? Have more players "cracked the code"? It's not so much Cities as Living City doing the stats jumps for them. It's LC ability to ambush from the board edge, then shoot then move again for a 3 inch charge. Add this to a unit of Fulminators and its a great threat. Combine this with having half your army off board to mitigate Alpha Strikes and also a meta that has shifted away from screening units and lots of hammers laying around waiting to be ambushed and it plays well into Living Cities tool kit. They will drop soon in win rate as people start to respond I think. More screens will go a long way in shutting them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Lists: Sheffield Slaughter, 96 players, SCE comes first: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Cherokee Open, 51 players, SCE come first and second: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Brewdog, 34 players, SCE go 4-1 (cities wins with more than 1000 points of SCE): Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators (Stormkeep) - Mortal Realm: Shyish- Grand Strategy: Beast Master - Triumphs: InspiredLeadersKnight-Draconis (300)*- General- Command Trait: Master of Magic- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming WeaponKnight-Incantor (125)*- Spell: Celestial BladesLord-Relictor (145)*- Prayer: TranslocationBattleline4 x Stormdrake Guard (680)*- Drakerider's Warblade- Reinforced x 15 x Vindictors (130)*5 x Vindictors (130)*Units6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)*- Reinforced x 1Core Battalions*Battle RegimentAdditional EnhancementsHoly Command: Thunderbolt VolleyTotal: 1990 / 2000Reinforced Units: 2 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 90Drops: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted March 1, 2022 Author Share Posted March 1, 2022 Remember when people thought the Stormcast 3.0 book was bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 It would be nice to see less dragon spam though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 2 hours ago, PJetski said: Remember when people thought the Stormcast 3.0 book was bad It is a bad book. It's objectively a bad product, and these cookie cutter lists with predictably over-tuned units are evidence of that. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The World Tree Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 23 hours ago, NauticalSoup said: It is a bad book. It's objectively a bad product, and these cookie cutter lists with predictably over-tuned units are evidence of that. Objectively a bad product lol. Get a grip. It's flawed, but also has a large variety of effective lists. Three units are overtuned, plus some dogshit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, The World Tree said: Objectively a bad product lol. Get a grip. It's flawed, but also has a large variety of effective lists. Three units are overtuned, plus some dogshit. Perhaps your standards are just lower than mine, because your description sure sounds bad to me. Playing it feels pretty bad if you don't use the busted stuff, and already in my area bringing any of those three instantly makes you 'that guy'. If it's an improvement at all over the quality of the late 2.0 tomes it's uh... a pretty marginal one. I'd credit the book with cutting my efforts to rebuild the sigmar community here off at the knees, ****** like dragon spam makes people not want to return or leave. Edit: the profanity filter here is something else lol. I'll have to remember dogshit is allowed Edited March 2, 2022 by NauticalSoup 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 It manages to be a formidable book for competitive lists, but we should agree that the overall quality of a lot of our stuff in the book (warscrolls, items, traits, points, Stormhosts...) is lacking outside of those minmax/WAAC lists. I think the fact that we have seen zero of the Sacrosanct chamber in tournament lists, minus the Tauralon, is pretty damning. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.