AoS 3rd - Idoneth Deepkin discussion

[Derek]

So I was thinking about how to maximize a charge turn 2,  like make it as efficient as possible between bonuses to charging and running so you don’t fail the charge.   This would only be on one unit but if you put a battlemage from cities of sigmar in make him be from ghur you have a second wizard who is only casting wild form with a reroll because we’re in ghur and can get a unit of morsaar effectively a +3 to run and a +4 to charge this could also be a unit of sharks but then it’s +3/+3 instead of the better bonus for the guard.  This could also be used in ironrach turn one if you found a gap In your opponent’s lines and they left something open to be taken advantage of.   What do you guys think?   It would also work on a unit of thralls if you wanted to try and get a big unit into combat.  

[That Guy]

53 minutes ago, Derek said:

@Rachmani  like this.   
 

Army Faction: Idoneth Deepkin
    - Army Subfaction: Fuethán

LEADER

Akhelian King (250)

Eidolon of Mathlann Aspect of the Storm (355)

BATTLELINE

Akhelian Allopexes (165)

Akhelian Allopexes (165)

Akhelian Allopexes (165)

BEHEMOTH

Akhelian Leviadon (500)

OTHER

Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (195)

Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (195)

TOTAL POINTS: (1990/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

It’s actually a list that would have a lot of backhand tools. It’s not bad lol. Just too bad the storm only buffs the riders and that the leviadon Namarti buff gets lost into the void. On the other hand, the leviadon will literally buff everyone but itself and the eidolon with it’s void drum. Might want to consider the aura boost mount trait on him. The only real issue i have with this list is that everything is MSU, meaning you will benefit minimally from the akhelian ASF if he rolls 2/3. On top of that other command abilities will be kind of shite… too. Also aren’t the Eels battleline under the king as general, meaning you can run the sharks as 3? Meaning my previous point will be completely gone.

[Derek]

Yes the eels would be battleline.  I just threw a list together to show how you would do it.  In futhan you could also get the blood thirsty Shiver boost and get those exploding 6’s.   It is definitely the very definition of glass cannon but could work well into some lists.  On most of my games the king is what carried me so far.  Hoping that once I get more variety in the army build I’d see more units carrying the weight instead of the king.  

[Sonnenspeer]

You would have no ritual with that list.

[Rachmani]

Well, it actually works. Not bad. Maybe I was too fixated on 6 morsarr and ionrach.

[DocKeule]

I think I will be trying this some time soon. Though not as a tournament list at least yet.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Ionrach
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Akhelian King (250)*
- General
- Bladed Polearm
Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers (115)*

Battleline
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (390)**
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*
10 x Namarti Reavers (170)*

Units
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Razorshell Harpoon
- Reinforced x 1
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Razorshell Harpoon
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Aetherwings (65)*
- Allies
3 x Aetherwings (65)*
- Allies

Endless Spells & Invocations
The Burning Head (20)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 130 / 400
Wounds: 110
Drops: 4
 

I am not sure how viable the Aetherwings are as a screen. I think it very much depends on the amount of shooting you face. One big unit of Sentinels for example would have to shoot all they attacks one this one unit, obliterate it of course but waste all their potential on 65 points. 

An army like KO on the other hand might burn through two Atherwing Trios in one shooting phase and still be able to shoot on the units behind.

Having no save is tough. Putting them on a terrain we would be at 6+. Mystic shield we'd be at 5+. So the moment we face any rend...meh. I would have loved to garrison them in the boat but they would need the IDK keyword.

Still might be worth a try.

[Liquidsteel]

Why the Burning Head?  Just cut the 20 points and give yourself a shot at the triumph. Huge impact on 6 Morrsarr.

[Derek]

@Sonnenspeer you wouldn’t with that list specifically but you could drop a shark and get a tide caster or lotann or a different isharaan hero.    I definitely noticed that the lack of rituals didn’t really effect my games so far.  They probably would’ve helped into the big waagh list I faced but outside of that,  I’m sure they’ll be something I miss when I end up playing against lumineth or dragons or something lol

[Derek]

Army Faction: Idoneth Deepkin
    - Army Subfaction: Fuethán
    - Grand Strategy: Akhelian Pursuit
    - Triumphs: Inspired

LEADER

Akhelian King (250)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Unstoppable Fury
    - Bladed Polearm and Falchion
    - Artefacts: Armour of the Cythai
    - Mount Traits: Voidchill Darkness

Isharann Tidecaster (150)**
    - Artefacts: Rune of the Surging Gloomtide
    - Spells: Counter-current

Eidolon of Mathlann Aspect of the Sea (325)**
    - Spells: Steed of Tides

Isharann Tidecaster (150)**
    - Spells: Arcane Corrasion

BATTLELINE

Akhelian Allopexes (Bloodthirsty Shiver) (165)*
    - Razorshell Harpoon Launcher, Barbed Hooks and Blades

Akhelian Allopexes (Bloodthirsty Shiver) (165)*
    - Razorshell Harpoon Launcher, Barbed Hooks and Blades

Akhelian Allopexes (Bloodthirsty Shiver) (165)*
    - Razorshell Harpoon Launcher, Barbed Hooks and Blades

Akhelian Allopexes (Bloodthirsty Shiver) (165)**
    - Razorshell Harpoon Launcher, Barbed Hooks and Blades

Akhelian Allopexes (Bloodthirsty Shiver) (165)***
    - Razorshell Harpoon Launcher, Barbed Hooks and Blades

Akhelian Allopexes (Bloodthirsty Shiver) (165)***
    - Razorshell Harpoon Launcher, Barbed Hooks and Blades

TERRAIN

Gloomtide Shipwreck (0)

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

**Warlord

***Hunters of the Heartlands

TOTAL POINTS: (1865/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 

 

im thinking this list might have some play.  Can definitely drop one of the tide casters for something else.  Possibly a second king

[Derek]

Alright new bat rep against shooty stormcast no dragons with the nautilar triple turtles.  Played feral foray which is an absolute ****** mission for a 5 model army.  So basically he systematically destroyed my army played perfect into me by focusing a unit at a time.  Random question came up about forgotten nightmares and if you could split fire if you were equally close to 2 units.  Didn’t really know how to answer that and the rule doesn’t explicitly say either way.  So if anyone has an opinion let’s hear it.  

[woolf]

4 hours ago, Derek said:

Alright new bat rep against shooty stormcast no dragons with the nautilar triple turtles.  Played feral foray which is an absolute ****** mission for a 5 model army.  So basically he systematically destroyed my army played perfect into me by focusing a unit at a time.  Random question came up about forgotten nightmares and if you could split fire if you were equally close to 2 units.  Didn’t really know how to answer that and the rule doesn’t explicitly say either way.  So if anyone has an opinion let’s hear it.  

the rule is u can only shoot the closest so my answer would be no you cant split. it becomes a question of precision in measuring, ie if u could measure (for sake of argument) on atom lvl, its extremely unlikely they would be equal distance. in practice if they are close enough to be hard to tell, I would offer my opponent to choose which one but not both.

[Drazhoath]

2 hours ago, woolf said:

the rule is u can only shoot the closest so my answer would be no you cant split. it becomes a question of precision in measuring, ie if u could measure (for sake of argument) on atom lvl, its extremely unlikely they would be equal distance. in practice if they are close enough to be hard to tell, I would offer my opponent to choose which one but not both.

Exactly. I guest there was a FAQ years ago Where this question was answered.

[wolyhammer]

Looking for some advice for a short term addition for my idoneth collection. As most wargamers I've a few projects on the go so I'm waiting till the end of the year to possibly pick up a Leviadon or Eidalon. So I'm not sure what would be a good unit to add in next to give me a bit more viability at 2k. Not looking for super competitive, just playable.

My collection is:

Akhelian King
Isharann Soulrender
Isharann Soulscryer
Isharann Tidecaster
Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers

10 x Namarti Reavers
10 x Namarti Thralls
10 x Namarti Thralls
10 x Namarti Thralls
1 x Akhelian Allopexes
1 x Akhelian Allopexes
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard

I'm tempted with another unit of Reavers and go the Nemarti route. Or Islaen Guard for a mix of things?

 

[Liquidsteel]

I'd pick up another Shark and another unit of Reavers to start.

2 Sharks are nice as one of them becomes a Champion (for +1 to hit that also buffs the Mount) as well as making them a more appealing option to all out attack on the shooting.

Getting to 20 Reavers turns them in to a pretty decent threat from 18" and lethal at 9", as well as a scary prospect to charge thanks to Unleash Hell.

[wolyhammer]

14 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

I'd pick up another Shark and another unit of Reavers to start.

2 Sharks are nice as one of them becomes a Champion (for +1 to hit that also buffs the Mount) as well as making them a more appealing option to all out attack on the shooting.

Getting to 20 Reavers turns them in to a pretty decent threat from 18" and lethal at 9", as well as a scary prospect to charge thanks to Unleash Hell.

Yeah, I like the fact you can use them to sit on objectives or even screen and not feel like you're not using them well. I'd be tempted to run the thralls as a reinforced unit and then the other 10 as the fodder out forward for forgotten nightmares

[Liquidsteel]

Just now, wolyhammer said:

Yeah, I like the fact you can use them to sit on objectives or even screen and not feel like you're not using them well. I'd be tempted to run the thralls as a reinforced unit and then the other 10 as the fodder out forward for forgotten nightmares

For sure. I think that list would really suit a Leviadon in support, if that makes your decision on which big model to get first.

[wolyhammer]

7 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

For sure. I think that list would really suit a Leviadon in support, if that makes your decision on which big model to get first.

I'm more leaning towards a Leviadon, and who knows, maybe the points will be lower later this year!

Thanks for the advice!

[Derek]

@woolf  I wish I had taken a picture.  But if you set up so you have a unit of 10 models exactly 9 inches away from two units 5 are closer to one unit and 5 are closer to the other they would get to split fire,  I agree I don’t think it should work that way but somehow it does since it basically ignores forgotten nightmares.  Other people I have asked said yes it works that way but I think it definitely needs an faq.

[woolf]

14 minutes ago, Derek said:

@woolf  I wish I had taken a picture.  But if you set up so you have a unit of 10 models exactly 9 inches away from two units 5 are closer to one unit and 5 are closer to the other they would get to split fire,  I agree I don’t think it should work that way but somehow it does since it basically ignores forgotten nightmares.  Other people I have asked said yes it works that way but I think it definitely needs an faq.

hmm ok yeah I suppose that could be the case, i.e you would check which is the closest idoneth unit to each shooting model, and then it would technically "force" a split of attacks... That does make sense to me actually... its a pretty niche case though and I guess it would mainly come in play if you are up against something that can teleport but I can see how SCE could position a unit so that they are able to split attacks this way.

[vinnyt]

This weekend I'm gonna be trying out my beloved sharkpocalypse list

King with unstoppable fury, arcane tome (countercurrent), voidchill darkness

Tidecaster with steed of tides and bonus boat

Lotann

 

3 Sharks with harpoons

1x3 Shiver (all with harpoons)

1x3 Shiver (all with harpoons)

2000 points (hunters of the heartland for big shark unit and 2/3 of one shiver, warlord battalion for extra artifact)

 

This list has 36 reaver equivalents of shooting (a pretty decent amount) and 9 sharks worth of sharking people. Hopefully it has the board presence to really disrupt people and I look forward to hopefully counter-currenting a unit and then redeploying out of charge range. That would be choice. 

Turn 1 is likely going to be FA with the characters

Turn 2 likely broken ranks/bring it down on a vulnerable target with the goal of yeeting a king and fat shark unit into something juicy

Turn 3 will be broken ranks, the gloomtide one, or possibly an objective one like conquer or aggressive expansion

Turn 4 will be an objective one/savage spearhead

Turn 5 will again be an objective one/savage spearhead. 

 

I always try to go into games with a mental "road map" for battle tactics- when do I think my army will be able to easily achieve one vs another and how to switch the order around based on my opponent's list. Against something like nurgle, it's likely a good idea to focus on the positioning tactics like savage spearhead and AE in the super early game, giving me time to chip down vulnerable units before going for the broken ranks/other killy tactics in the mid-late game. Otherwise, against most armies, saving the mobility tactics for the late game is usually pretty safe with this style of army. 

[Derek]

I think it’s funny that sylvaneth can be allied into deepkin and you could basically faction terrain spam a board,  idk why you would but,  you can summon a wyldwood with a tree lord ancient spell and get one boat for faction terrain for the deepkin then use an artifact to get a second boat.  Basically put down a bunch of terrain to block movement or lock an opponent from one side of the board unless they run through then wyldwood
 

yay terrain spam.  And losing friends lol

[DocKeule]

First game in the TTS League against SCE yesterday.

My opponent's list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hallowed Knights (Stormkeep)
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Gardus Steel Soul (150)***
Lord-Celestant (130)***
- General
- Command Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Hammer of Might
Lord-Relictor (145)***
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Prayer: Translocation
Lord-Ordinator (130)*

Battleline
5 x Sequitors (145)**
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (145)**
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (145)**
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (145)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (145)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2x Stormsmite Greatmaces

Units
6 x Castigators (210)***
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Castigators (210)***
- Reinforced x 1

Artillery
Celestar Ballista (140)*
Celestar Ballista (140)*

Core Battalions
*Grand Battery
**Hunters of the Heartlands
***Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 116
Drops: 13

My list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Ionrach
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Akhelian King (250)*
- General
- Bladed Polearm
- Command Trait: Unstoppable Fury
- Mount Trait: Voidchill Darkness
Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers (115)*
Isharann Tidecaster (150)*
- Artefact: Rune of the Surging Gloomtide
- Lore of the Deeps: Steed of Tides

Battleline
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (390)**
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*

Units
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Razorshell Harpoon
- Reinforced x 1
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Razorshell Harpoon
- Reinforced x 1
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (165)*
- Retarius Net Launcher

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101
Drops: 4

Battleplan was "Survival of the fittest".

It didn't went all bad but I was still coming up short in the end. His wards saved him a couple of times. I got to kill all his predator units with my predators but despite a double turn in round three I endet up with just one shark in my 5th turn with no battle tactic to do. (If I had gotten the initiative and one more unit survived I could have done "savage spearhead".) 

Also by having more units scattered across the board he did also holt more terrain pieces and I did not get my strategy. 

The game was close up to the last round and therefore fun. But this was by no means an elide SCE list. (Pretty sturdy for sure). 

Again the Tidecaster didn't do too much other than providing the second ritual (which I forgot about in round 4). Apart from a mystic shield in round one I ether whiffed als casts or got dispelled. 

First unit of Thralls screened in the second round an got deleted. The other one had few good targets since most units hat two wounds per model. The rest did OK. I the future I will probably give the Amulet of Destiny to the king. He died very quickly (mostly to mortal wound from exploding Stormcasts). 

I still have four more games with this list in the next couple of weeks. 

[Cyna]

Hello,

Im build my first army and for now i have: 

• Akhelian King
• 6x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard
• 2x Akhelian Allopexes
• 10 x Namarti Reavers
• 10 x Namarti Thralls.

I want to add to that for 2k:

• Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea
• Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers
• Isharann Tidecaster
• 10 x Namarti Thralls

What do you think, will something like this be ok?

.I have also Akhelian Thrallmaster but i think there is no space for him, what do you think? 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Cyna

[That Guy]

5 hours ago, Cyna said:

Hello,

Im build my first army and for now i have: 

• Akhelian King
• 6x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard
• 2x Akhelian Allopexes
• 10 x Namarti Reavers
• 10 x Namarti Thralls.

I want to add to that for 2k:

• Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea
• Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers
• Isharann Tidecaster
• 10 x Namarti Thralls

What do you think, will something like this be ok?

.I have also Akhelian Thrallmaster but i think there is no space for him, what do you think? 

 

Solid units, u can do the Ionrach strat with your 6 morrsarr and king. Do know when you go over 3 heroes, you will be forced to at least a 2 drop army, since the 1 drop will only take 3 heroes. I would think about what you really like to do here. There's a lot utility in these lists. If you go namarti heavy, the tidecaster is nice (you can drop a second boat through the artefact and you can double dip the high tide and low tide rituals), if not, Lotann often is better. Both could work, but you do fight for points here. Since you go for the Eidolon of the Sea, you might want to consider getting a turtle at some point. The combo of turtle with eidolon is pretty great in terms of sustain and healing potential. It will take a big chunk of your list, but every single unit bar the eidolon will benefit from the turtles abilities. You could consider running a Nautilar list with 1 turtle in that case and it's special monstrous action, while having namarti fill up the rest of the battleline slots. Nautilar is a great place for a mixed list, so is Ionrach. You can always switch out a character for the Thrallmaster, but you are running too little Thralls to do that imo. Unless you 20 blob a thrall unit I guess. Yeah, for you i'd suggest Ionrach/Nautilar. You'll have fun. 

[Cyna]

2 hours ago, That Guy said:

Solid units, u can do the Ionrach strat with your 6 morrsarr and king. Do know when you go over 3 heroes, you will be forced to at least a 2 drop army, since the 1 drop will only take 3 heroes. I would think about what you really like to do here. There's a lot utility in these lists. If you go namarti heavy, the tidecaster is nice (you can drop a second boat through the artefact and you can double dip the high tide and low tide rituals), if not, Lotann often is better. Both could work, but you do fight for points here. Since you go for the Eidolon of the Sea, you might want to consider getting a turtle at some point. The combo of turtle with eidolon is pretty great in terms of sustain and healing potential. It will take a big chunk of your list, but every single unit bar the eidolon will benefit from the turtles abilities. You could consider running a Nautilar list with 1 turtle in that case and it's special monstrous action, while having namarti fill up the rest of the battleline slots. Nautilar is a great place for a mixed list, so is Ionrach. You can always switch out a character for the Thrallmaster, but you are running too little Thralls to do that imo. Unless you 20 blob a thrall unit I guess. Yeah, for you i'd suggest Ionrach/Nautilar. You'll have fun. 

Ok thanks. I wanted to insert the Eidolon because it seemed to me as I looked at other spreads that this is a must have in the army.  If not what would you suggest to throw in instead of Eidolon? I was thinking to throw in an extra 10 thralls and 10 reavers. Or would 20 thralls be better? If I gave up on Eidolon and wanted to stick with 3 leaders with Thrallmaster, which leader would be better to remove Lottan or Tidecaster and in their place I was thinking of putting Allopex.